• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

What is that "certain something" that makes many of us enjoy Japanese games so much?

Zolo

Member
I think it's unfair though to limit discussion to just that over served segment.

Basically. It's good to acknowledge that there is a base of players where that's the main appeal, but also unfair to say 'Everyone who says they like Japanese games for anything other than boobs is liars'.

One of the big things for me is unlimited inventory space. I fucking hate weight limits in WRPGs while in a JRPG I have 99 of pretty much any item. (Some SMT games being the exception)

There's a reason why the most popular mods for a lot of games tends to be unlimited inventory space.
Right after the nude mods.
 

andymcc

Banned
Mechanically speaking, western games just don't usually appeal to me. Sometimes I have issues with blatant fan service and overt sexualization.
 

Jawmuncher

Member
For me, I like how they can take ridiculous premises (RE, MGS) and play them completely straight faced. I want political commentary in my game about bipedal nuclear robots, or the threat of large corporations in my RE.
 

barybll

Banned
The only western game im looking forward is Cyberpunk 2077

I would be interested in red dead if I played the original tho


But yeah, aside from that, im usually more excited for japanese developments than western developments.

Just look at this year for example

Nier
Zelda
Persona
Yakuza
Kingdom Hearts
Tales of

etc.
 
As someone from the U.S. I've always said that what we've been experiencing is a way of stories being told. Much like a foreign film with subtitles, the original story, the original intent, is still there in some capacity, and its approach, sensibilities, and style are different than what we usually experience, and it shines through regardless of the translation.
 
really? which games from Japan in the last few years from the respective genres are competing with games like Ori (metroidvania), Doom and Overwatch (fps), retro platformers like shovel knight, New takes on the jrpg formula like Undertale, or anything similar to Uncharted or Tomb raider for 3rd person platforming/shooting. Or a really unique sport game like Rocket League?

even the big Japanese MMOs like FF14 have like attractive model humans and realistic textures compared to WoW which has been around forever now but has a far more colourful and unique aesthetic.

Actually Splatoon was really fresh if you can compare that to the 3rd person games i mentioned so ill give it that.

Maybe ive just missed a lot of games, and im not trying to be selective, but almost every genre has been more diverse outside of Japan from recent memory.
I aint even touching the Witcher and Bloodborne comparisons because thats destined to turn into a joke

I'm thinking more in terms of general aesthetic and tone. Western indies have injected much needed personality into gaming, but they all owe a huge debt to Japanese games of the past.

I think there are probably more genres where Japanese developers are still dominant. I won't bother naming them all, but there are a significant amount of games where Western developers just aren't present.
 

RM8

Member
Is MKX really free of sexual pandering? Seems like most of the female characters still have their tits out or look like they're running around in their panties like D'Vorah.
What characters have their tits out in MKX? Not Kitana, Mileena, Sonya, Tanya, Cassie, Jacqui or D'vorah. In MK9, almost all females had a super original V-shaped bikini as an outfit, lol, and then you had Jade pole dancing and Sheeva touching herself suggestively after winning. Aren't you thinking of MK9?
 
I'm thinking more in terms of general aesthetic and tone. Western indies have injected much needed personality into gaming, but they all owe a huge debt to Japanese games of the past.

I think there are probably more genres where Japanese developers are still dominant. I won't bother naming them all, but there are a significant amount of games where Western developers just aren't present.

im actually curious as to which some of these are
 

Shengar

Member
OP made elaborate post that focused pretty much on gameplay element and focus, but 6 pages later the rest of the thread just devolved to discussing sexual appeal in Japanese game.

1443964080993.png
 

RM8

Member
OP made elaborate post that focused pretty much on gameplay element and focus, but 6 pages later the rest of the thread just devolved to discussing sexual appeal in Japanese game.

1443964080993.png
If only people would stop taking about it!
 
I legitimately feel they're stronger mechanically. They make up for their lack of top of the line visuals, no open world elements, less multiplayer elements etc with being stronger focused experiences and I appreciate them and how they're on the rise for doing that. These are the types of games I've been craving lately and now there's almost too much to pick from.
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
OP made elaborate post that focused pretty much on gameplay element and focus, but 6 pages later the rest of the thread just devolved to discussing sexual appeal in Japanese game.

Here's my Grand Unification Theory of Japanese Games: High concept waifus with deep mechanical systems.
 

Drkirby

Corporate Apologist
I personally think its the artistic direction of the games, the stylistic choices are just unique compared to what most western media looks like. I also think they are tend to have really strong sound tracks that do a great job at invoking emotion, where western game soundtracks tend to be more ambient.
 
For a certain segment of gamers, the patriarchal sexist culture in Japan spilling into video games seems to be that 'certain something' that they seek, consume, and violently defend.

Preach. (Lived and worked in Japan for half a decade, worked for and with Japanese companies, fluent in the language. Disclaimer: Not a cultural expert, but highly familiar.)
 
What characters have their tits out in MKX? Not Kitana, Mileena, Sonya, Tanya, Cassie, Jacqui or D'vorah. In MK9, almost all females had a super original V-shaped bikini as an outfit, lol, and then you had Jade pole dancing and Sheeva touching herself suggestively after winning. Aren't you thinking of MK9?

Sorry if I'm mistaken or looking at DLC costumes or something, I'm going off of wiki images. This seems pretty pandery to me.

D'vorah doesn't have her tits out, but she's designed to look like she's running around in her underwear.
 
im actually curious as to which some of these are

Well, certain game types aren't exactly exclusive to developers of one region.

I prefer the Japanese approach to the 2D fighting, character action, rhythm, strategy RPG genres and their ideas in general.

You feel that the Western approach is forward thinking, so I guess it's just a matter of taste.
 

SolVanderlyn

Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
Want to know the perfect East meets West game?

Metroid Prime.

Besides the mood and aesthetic being a complete mix of the two...

Western elements:

-Organic storytelling (logs)
-Encourages exploration
-Realistic looking characters
-Inspiration from western sci-fi

Eastern elements:

-Catchy soundtrack
-Tightly designed gameplay mechanics (switching beams/visors with the c-stick and the like felt very Japanese to me)
-Solid upgrade system that's gradually introduced to you as you progress
-Environments are very stylized

Donkey Kong Country is another western game that feels like it carries the spirit of Japanese games inside of it.

Japanese companies should collaborate with western devs more often. Just not Capcom Vancouver, lol.
 
Well, certain game types aren't exactly exclusive to developers of one region.

I prefer the Japanese approach to the 2D fighting, character action, rhythm, strategy RPG genres and their ideas in general.

You feel that the Western approach is forward thinking, so I guess it's just a matter of taste.

Even genres like Rhythm game still had Thumper recently, which is easily one of the best rhythm games. I guess Rock Band and Just Dance type games arent too similar. That said it sounded like you said there was no representation at all.
 

Vlaphor

Member
For me, a lot of it has to do with the less narrow focus on how the game should be played. Most of the Japanese games I've played recently have been pretty open with how you can play it, whereas most of the recent western releases have been pretty narrow in their focus. Granted, there are several western games that are pretty open themselves, but for the most part, most of the Japanese games I've played recently and most of the ones I'm looking forward to playing all feel pretty open in how you can play it, without an obvious defined approach in terms of how you must play it.

Also, I love suggestive fanservice content and Japanese games still offer the best stuff in terms of that. I don't just mean sexy women (though you do still find quite a bit of those in Japanese games), but I'm into guys as well and all western games gives you are identical, roided-out beefcakes and old dudes. Japanese games however...well, I started FF XV anticipating Cidney (who did deliver) but finished it a bigger fan of Ignis. You aint gonna find the Ignis-type in western games.
 

messiaen

Member
Nintendo is great, their special something is wide appeal, but Call of Duty and Gears does that as well to a degree. All of the other developers in Japan are incredibly hit or miss, I don't think they have more flair or personality than Western games. Really the West is dominating in my opinion, Japanese developers will continue to appeal to a small crowd who like cartoon girls. Their special something is over-the-top nonsense.
 
OP made elaborate post that focused pretty much on gameplay element and focus, but 6 pages later the rest of the thread just devolved to discussing sexual appeal in Japanese game.

I guess about 5 people read it. Creating a thread with a telling headline can backfire.
 

Marker007

Member
I think a lot of the appeal for Japanese style games stems from how the market in the late 80's and through the early 2000's was dominated by like 75% foreign games from Japan. Quite a few of the most popular genres got popular through a Japanese game during the NES - PS1 Era. Mario/Donkey Kong made platformers popular in arcades and on home consoles and ect. I also find myself attracted to Japanese games a lot out of nostalgia for the game play and the goofiness of the plots that don't take themselves as seriously as a lot of western games do.
 

Shredderi

Member
They put player agency before cinematic experience. This is the big all encompassing one in general. Then there are the quirky things that we love. Many japanese devs just know how to have fun and not trying to be super serious. Having ridiculous things like Resident Evil yet being all straight faced with it. Love it.
 

Fbh

Member
For me it's a mix of generally better or at least more unique gameplay combined with a more unique style .

I play a lot of RPG's and IMO Japanese ones just play better. The combat in many big western RPGs like the Witcher, Elder Scrolls or Dragon age ranges from average to just plain mediocre. Stuff like Dark souls, Dragons Dogma, Nioh or Tales of are much more engaging.

But the unique style is also a big reason.
Like Yakuza, it's filled with weird stuff and fun extras and silly humor and feels completely different than anything you get in western games without losing its ability to tell a compelling and engaging story with great characters.
Or Gravity Rush set in a really unique world I could only describe as Japanese steampunkish fantasy.
Or Nioh in a fantasy world based on Japanese history and folklore, Bloodborne with it's dark horror world, NiNoKuni in a unique animated looking fantasy world, Xenoblade taking place on the corpse of two ancient gods, etc.

Not that there aren't western games with cool and unique worlds( BioShock for example is great at this). But they just seem to be more frequent in Japanese games.
 

RM8

Member
Sorry if I'm mistaken or looking at DLC costumes or something, I'm going off of wiki images. This seems pretty pandery to me.

D'vorah doesn't have her tits out, but she's designed to look like she's running around in her underwear.
I honestly don't find these designs too pandering:



Find me one recent fighting game with less pandering designs :p

They put player agency before cinematic experience.
I'd go with this! This is a big part of it IMO. Though western indies are pretty good about this too.
 

LeleSocho

Banned
I disagree entirely. Games trying to be movies might have been a valid argument in 2011, but definitely not anymore.

You say this while most of the western media called Uncharted 4 (a less edgy Indiana Jones) the 2016 GOTY? What a joke.
Western games dream to be movies there's not much to discuss here.
 
I haven't seen anything remotely resembling an interesting boss battle in Horizon. It looks like western jank.

It's not western jank. It's really fluid, with a lot of options. The machine battles are heavily inspired by Japanese boss battles and it shows. The machines are agressive and have lots of different attacks. It's not really like The Witcher or something.
 
You say this while most of the western media called Uncharted 4 (a less edgy Indiana Jones) the 2016 GOTY? What a joke.
Western games dream to be movies there's not much to discuss here.

Not true at all. Doom is pure gameplay, so is Titanfall 2. Hitman and Dishonored 2 are games that offer tons of player agency. Horizon is an open world with tight, tactical combat.
There are cinematic games (I'll defend UC4's mechanics by the way, it's combat is really quite good) but certainly not the vast majority. And that's without taking indies into account.
 

cireza

Member
Japanese developers design their game in a way that make it a lot more fun to me.

Creative ideas, and a design that is made in order to achieve these ideas. The rest does not count much. Building a realistic world is not their goal, they prefer trying to give life to their gameplay ideas in the best way possible.

"I have this idea of how I want the player to play my game, how do I build the game so that it creates the most fun experience possible".

I find that their games are more oriented towards the gameplay and fun than the environments (when comparing to western games). I mean no disrespect to western games when I say this, I love a lot of western games.

Japanese games that make me say these things :
Panzer Dragoon
Burning Rangers
Jet Set Radio
Bayonetta
Outrun
Guardian Heroes
Metroid
Rocket Knight Adventure
and the list could continue forever in fact...

Creative games, that develop a few simple ideas, and implement them the best way they can, in levels/zones that are fun to navigate.

So if I had to sum it up :
"Focus on a few fun gameplay ideas, and build everything around it".
 

LeleSocho

Banned
Not true at all. Doom is pure gameplay, so is Titanfall 2. Hitman and Dishonored 2 are games that offer tons of player agency. Horizon is an open world with tight, tactical combat.
There are cinematic games (I'll defend UC4's mechanics by the way, it's combat is really quite good) but certainly not the vast majority. And that's without taking indies into account.

I'll give you Doom but the other... especially Titanfall after the fact that the first one was heavily criticized for not having a cinematic single player and the 2 is a response to that.
 

Seventy70

Member
I've thought about this as well. You can even tell when it's a western developer trying to emulate a Japanese style. There's a complete difference in mindset when it comes to gaming. Japanese devs seem much more open minded rather than locked into one way of thinking.

One of the main differences I notice when I see interviews from Japanese developers is that they typically cite something outside of gaming as an influence. They treat gaming as just another artform. The western approach is different in that it's more "I liked these kind of games and wanted to make an iteration of this." Everything is more locked into a gaming context in the West. This is a part of why I think Japanese games are frequently the ones to come up with new ideas. The western devlopers usually try to fit their game into an already existing genre/template as they make it.
 
You can not give a straight answer without painting with a broad brush. There's counterexamples and games which fall out of the norm on all continents, and I'd even argue there is a difference in style even within "Western" games (e.g. American vs. European vs. Eastern European and so on).

I enjoy a certain style of game and in general, I do not care where it is from as long as it fits my tastes. I find most of my favorite games being 'Indie' or Japan-developed though and it is for similiar reasons as others have stated: Gameplay mechanics and certain artstyles.

So I do not care much about cineastic videogame storytelling nor most open-worlds. I'd rather have a game feature less fluff in form of hundreds of gameplay mechanics and possibilities (open world games often feel to me like jack of all trades master of none), but be allowed to experiment more with a specialized tighter set of systems. Good controls are a must, and I'd take fluid acrobatic movement over realism every day. A good RPG ruleset, a fancy fighting system in character action or a focused play on mechanics are worth a lot to me. Marry that with interesting leveldesign with secrets, some exploration and reasons to replay and I am happy. Arcadestyle scoring mechanics and balance are also a plus.

Now there are Western games which I enjoy a lot who do this, to name a few more recent (past 10 years or so) ones: Doom, Shadow Warrior, Mirrors Edge, Divinity Original Sin, Alien: Isolation, Rayman Legends, Wipeout series... and countless Western indies. For the most part, I prefer Japanese games though. There is a lot of low budget and Otaku-pandering stuff there (some of which are guilty pleasures of mine), but the mid-to moderate high budget stuff is where they truly shine, to me. Also, as someone who does not like -most- modern FPS games anymore, I really like the approach for most Japanese action games to be more close-combat heavy, so Yakuza, Bayonetta, even the action-Resident Evil games and Vanquish with their melee systems are endless sources of fun to me. Also, I still like turn-based RPG and strategy and while this is coming back in Western games as well, something like Fire Emblem, Tactics Ogre/Legend of Heroes, Shin Megami games is just my first go-to if I am in the mood. And they still put out higher budget games in surprising genres such as puzzle games, rhythm games, fighting games. Also helps that I am a huge fan of Nintendo - and there's also some examples of marriage between Japanese and Western game designs there, such as Metroid Prime or Luigis Mansion 2.

Ah it is difficult to point out exactly. It's not boobies though, even if I sometimes enjoy wellmade fanservice. For actual nudity, Western games are a lot more risque btw. and I find it strange to single out Japanese games while we have a lot of fanservice in Western games as well (The Witcher games which I really like btw. are a lot more sexist in their portrayal of women than most non-Otaku pandering bigger Japanese RPGs. And looking at games such as GTA or God of War you have two bestselling high budget games full of rampant sexism and yet discussion often points to low-budget selling 50000 copies at most niche games). For both in Western and Japanese games, you find examples of progressive depictions of women and negative portrayals. The discussion is to be had and important, but pretending it is a Japanese-focused problem is not helpful for the discourse at all. Saying "Oh you surely like Japanese games... because boobies" is the equivalent of "Oh you surely like American games... because hyperviolent gorefests".
 
over time, I find myself preferring western games. I used to say just what OP said but now, my favourite devs and games come from the west.
 

Necron

Member
The focus on gameplay. I believe more Japanese studios prioritise this.

I'll reference From Software's output and Platinum Games' output as evidence on this core design philosophy.
 

Ushay

Member
Japanese games always take more risks than the Western devs. It's a fact.
Lmao, no they don't they always stick to same themes, if anything Japanese developers need to adopt a broader audience. Final Fantasy using its antiquated combat system is an example (until recently).

I do think Japanese developers have some insane talent for creative gameplay mechanics.
 

jay

Member
It's probably as simple as I grew up playing NES and SMS games. Japanese console games defined my tastes so I still like them. I'm old enough to have had that happen before the majority of them became breast based.
 
It's definitely the focus on mechanics and systems as the primary component of a game that makes them feel and play better than a lot of Western titles. The people creating them don't act like making games was a 2nd place prize for failing to break into the movie business.

As far as the story elements go, that's down to cultural differences. It's a nice change from the output of the Anglophone world, which is slowly becoming something of a monoculture.

They also consistently feature casts with better and more natural representation.
 

bigol

Member
I don't know. I don't think I get it. Yakuza and Nioh look like old dreamcast games to me with last-gen graphics and clunky looking UI. Resident Evil doesn't strike me as belonging in the same category. Never played a Souls game but I just picked up Bloodborne so we'll see how it goes.

Yakuza 0 is late ps3 game in 1080p, i don't even know how you can say it looks like a Dreamcast game.
 

Nasbin

Member
It's a bit sad to watch people in this thread try and tear down the entirety of Western game development instead of just talking about what Japanese games do well.
 

PillarEN

Member
Lmao, no they don't they always stick to same themes, if anything Japanese developers need to adopt a broader audience. Final Fantasy using its antiquated combat system is an example (until recently).

I do think Japanese developers have some insane talent for creative gameplay mechanics.

*eyes twitching*
 
Top Bottom