• Register
  • TOS
  • Privacy
  • @NeoGAF
  • Like

IrishNinja
(04-14-2017, 06:47 PM)
IrishNinja's Avatar
damn, congrats again on Bayo y'all! always nice to see port begging rewarded
Rambler
Member
(04-14-2017, 07:01 PM)
Rambler's Avatar
If they port VF5FS then I hope they bring over that VF2 port as well.
Aokage
Pretty nice guy (apart from the blue shadows thing...)
(04-14-2017, 07:02 PM)
Aokage's Avatar

Originally Posted by Diabolical

Anarchy Reigns was initially released as a region-free title in Japan (titled 'Max Anarchy') during the Summer of 2012 and it was in a 'fully translated' state when it debuted then for the HD Twins. Despite having an almost unheard of degree of import friendliness working in its favor, the game's sales were very, very low in Japan.

The game was not promoted particularly well in Japan either. For a new fighting game IP with no arcade pedigree released at that time in Japanese console history, ~80,000 copies wasn't too bad. For comparison's sake, Soulcalibur V, released the same year, sold 90,000. The bestselling console fighter that year was Street Fighter x Tekken, at 130,000. These were dark days all around.

Originally Posted by Diabolical

Then, SEGA announced that the game would be released in the West, but it would be sold at half its initial MSRP... and they even dodged the late 2012 holiday rush by releasing during early January of the following year, like the first Bayonetta did when it came West in January 2010. Despite those factors, Anarchy Reigns still sold very, very poorly... even with added preorder bonuses. It had a $29.99 USD (instead of $59.99) launch day price point. It's a total myth that SEGA didn't "try" with both MadWorld and Anarchy Reigns.

I beg to differ. The massive, six-month delay hurt sales significantly, and it was released with terrible North American cover art and zero marketing whatsoever. It was an awful window for this type of game. To compare its January release with Bayonetta is a bit silly, also: Bayonetta had marketing.

Originally Posted by Diabolical

To this day, people associate the team behind Anarchy Reigns/Max Anarchy with Platinum's poorest efforts (of which there are few), namely TMNT: Mutants in Manhattan, The Legend of Korra, etc.

Associating Anarchy Reigns director Masaki Yamanaka with "poor efforts" is a bit of a stretch. He was a design lead on Resident Evil 4 and God Hand, hardly games that GAF would consider lacking. The connection between the Anarchy Reigns team and Korra/TMNT baffles me as well. Why is this connection made? And should it not be noted that both were licensed budget releases?

Originally Posted by Diabolical

With Anarchy Reigns, a PC port would also open up a situational quagmire. Due to the primary focus being its online component and the general nature of the game, a lot more work would "probably" need to be done, since a degree of continued commitment and investment might be required.

Anarchy Reigns had no dedicated servers and was entirely P2P. This is a non-issue.

Just my 2, but I think PC might finally be the place AR had a chance to shine. It was simply over-specced for last gen.
Diabolical
Junior Member
(04-14-2017, 09:57 PM)
Diabolical's Avatar

Originally Posted by Aokage

The game was not promoted particularly well in Japan either. For a new fighting game IP with no arcade pedigree released at that time in Japanese console history, ~80,000 copies wasn't too bad. For comparison's sake, Soulcalibur V...

First of all, Anarchy Reigns is not a "traditional" fighting game, nor it is an arcade game. Comparing it to the SoulCalibur, SF, or Tekken series' nearly invalidates everything you stated.

Secondly, there was promotion for the game. There were billboards, promotional videos, individual character trailers, and the game even got its own dedicated website created for it well before it released.

All of those things not only originated in Japan, but most of them -- namely the website, the myriad of pre-release gameplay videos, and individual character trailers -- could be accessed Worldwide, thanks to the existence of the Internet. There were ads ran for it on 'other sites' with high traffic game forums. Following Bayonetta and Vanquish, there were multiple major online publications covering the game.

There was also a 'meaty' demo of the game that was made available around May 2012 (a few months before the game's Japanese release), which allowed an entire gameplay mode to be played online for an unlimited duration. NA players played on this demo for months prior to the US release.

The notion that 'there was no marketing effort or promotion' is absurd. It had arguably as much as (or more than) Bayonetta did; it just didn't review nearly as well by comparison. If anything, we saw the classic case of review scoring doing more to get the masses to 'pass' on a game than a lack of a marketing effort being present. Sadly, a lot of people who see anything below an '8/10' score will balk (especially when it comes to Platinum, a high-pedigree studio). Unfortunately, the masses still think that way today.

Originally Posted by Aokage

~80,000 copies wasn't too bad.

May I ask what source you used to cite those numbers? It was widely reported that the game only sold a cumulative amount of around 25,000 units during its Japanese debut week (combined for both consoles), despite being region-free and fully translated for all territories. Please enlighten us on your discovery of it finding 'legs' to reach the figure you posted above.

Originally Posted by Aokage

Soulcalibur V, released the same year, sold 90,000. The bestselling console fighter that year was Street Fighter x Tekken, at 130,000. These were dark days all around.

Soul Calibur V went on to ship over 1 million units in its lifetime.

SFxTekken also shipped over 1 million units (disappointment of a game or not).

Anarchy Reigns didn't ship anywhere near those numbers. This is fact.

The 'dark days' you mention for SCV and SFxT must be the equivalent of Armageddon for AR. Unfortunately, the comparison you used holds no relevance.

Originally Posted by Aokage

I beg to differ. The massive, six-month delay hurt sales significantly, and it was released with terrible North American cover art and zero marketing whatsoever. It was an awful window for this type of game. To compare its January release with Bayonetta is a bit silly, also: Bayonetta had marketing.

The six-month delay was offset by SEGA announcing a massive reduction in day one price (only $29.99 USD instead of the full $59.99), some sweet preorder bonuses (including everyone's favorite Umbra Witch), and a move to a wide-open launch window with no competition. Yet, none of those things saved or helped the game catch on. Again, the 'excuse' regarding the marketing is only a myth. SEGA did what they could.

Platinum's staff even played the game with the (then) online communities on both consoles during multiple events, both for the Japanese and NA launches. NA even got a second Anniversary event where they participated. In that respect, the game actually had an advantage working in its favor that none of their other single player games did... yet it still didn't help.

There are many previously released games from various other publishers that 'didn't get a fair shot'. But when it comes to Anarchy Reigns, I disagree with that being the case... and evidence exists to support those sentiments.

Originally Posted by Aokage

Associating Anarchy Reigns director Masaki Yamanaka with "poor efforts" is a bit of a stretch. He was a design lead on Resident Evil 4 and God Hand, hardly games that GAF would consider lacking.

I didn't associate Yamanaka-san with 'poor' efforts; you just did. I own and adore just about all of the games he worked on, including some that you probably didn't realize he was a part of. When you quoted the post you were trying to argue against, notice how I used the word 'team'? Please make a note of that.

Furthermore, I was alluding to the general perception that the overall gaming populace has about Anarchy Reigns at this point. The people out there who choose 'to buy or not to buy' a prospective PC port are also comprised of the same ones who spoke negatively about AR when discussing the prospect of buying Korra and TMNT when they were revealed. That effect and word of mouth would present a challenge for any marketing effort to overcome.

Originally Posted by Aokage

The connection between the Anarchy Reigns team and Korra/TMNT baffles me as well. Why is this connection made? And should it not be noted that both were licensed budget releases.

You should ask the people who approached Korra/TMNT with apprehension that question instead, since their posts are available all over the 'net. Even some threads made here
on GAF will allow you to find such sentiments. It was widely publicized that the 'team' of staff (or segment within Platinum) that primarily handled Anarchy Reigns was also responsible for both Korra and TMNT's creation. So the connection was apparently made by the masses, which I simply pointed out. That should answer your question.

I would also politely suggest another correction: TMNT was not a simple 'budget' release on 8th Generation consoles. The Legend of Korra was the budget release, priced at $14.99 USD. Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: Mutants in Manhattan was $49.99 USD (for current gen). What constitutes a 'budget' release does not necessarily correlate with how well or poorly received a project ends up being; I'm sure you also know this already.

Originally Posted by Aokage

Anarchy Reigns had no dedicated servers and was entirely P2P. This is a non-issue.

It most definitely is an issue -and a major one- since being P2P is part of why it had such poor, unstable online performance at times. Would SEGA spend the money and commit the extra resources needed to significantly improve this aspect (or even consider dedicated servers) for the game? If so, then that would only add to the cost of the project.

On the other hand, keeping things the way they are (as P2P) would just lead to more people simply choosing to abandon the game due to its poor online stability. Then, on top of that, there would inevitably be demands for patches from all of the people who aren't used to learning how to manage versus the competition... and a need for some type of continued involvement would arise when it comes to eliminating potential 'cheaters'. The bottom line is, it would potentially require further investment to even undertake an AR port to PC compared to a myriad of other games.

I clearly alluded to some of these things in my initial reply, which you conveniently glossed over.

Originally Posted by Aokage

Just my 2, but I think PC might finally be the place AR had a chance to shine. It was simply over-specced for last gen.

Specs have nothing to do with why Anarchy Reigns didn't catch on (or maintain a healthy community).

Having owned the game for so long, I can truly say that (despite my personal enjoyment of it) it is the design of the gameplay itself that will always be a barrier of entry for newcomers, as well as a deterrent for those who lack the time to invest in gaining a thorough understanding of it. An early-release community for the game would always be 'threatened' by premature hemorrhaging towards an early death. The platform it's on doesn't matter and neither do the overall specs.

Like I said, I have nothing personal against the game whatsoever. As stated previously, I imported the game years ago... and I still own it. This is just the reality of the overall situation. Everyone 'wants' things, but it is crucially important to be mindful of where things stand and take an honest, unbiased look at how they got that way.

Again, there are valid reasons why a good number of us are worried about where our beloved SEGA goes from here with this initiative. We want whatever it is that they do to have the very best chances of success... especially when considering the sheer number of options that they have.

From here, we will conclude by remaining in cordial disagreement. Let's support SEGA on whatever they decide to do from here. Have a great weekend.
Aokage
Pretty nice guy (apart from the blue shadows thing...)
(04-14-2017, 11:51 PM)
Aokage's Avatar

Originally Posted by Diabolical

First of all, Anarchy Reigns is not a "traditional" fighting game, nor it is an arcade game. Comparing it to the SoulCalibur, SF, or Tekken series' nearly invalidates everything you stated.

It certainly isn't a traditional fighting game, you've got me there. With little else to compare it to genre-wise, I went for FGs.

Originally Posted by Diabolical

Secondly, there was promotion for the game. There were billboards, promotional videos, individual character trailers, and the game even got its own dedicated website created for it well before it released.

I never saw a billboard (if there had been any, I'd love to stand corrected, though). The individual character trailers as well as the comprehensive website were both created internally at PlatinumGames and practically forced on Sega of America, by the way.

Originally Posted by Diabolical

All of those things not only originated in Japan, but most of them -- namely the website, the myriad of pre-release gameplay videos, and individual character trailers -- could be accessed Worldwide, thanks to the existence of the Internet.

Indeed, created by PlatinumGames. Sega did not request them.

Originally Posted by Diabolical

There were ads ran for it on 'other sites' with high traffic game forums. Following Bayonetta and Vanquish, there were multiple major online publications covering the game.

Of course major online publications would cover any Platinum game, especially with their white-hot track record at the time. But we're talking purely enthusiast press; AR had no print advertisement, no point-of-purchase marketing, nothing that would alert the general gaming public to its existence.

Originally Posted by Diabolical

There was also a 'meaty' demo of the game that was made available around May 2012 (a few months before the game's Japanese release), which allowed an entire gameplay mode to be played online for an unlimited duration. NA players played on this demo for months prior to the US release.

Indeed they did, and they waited...and waited...and waited. This is a matter of opinion, but I believe the enthusiast hype peaked around the time of its Japanese release, and half a year later was largely forgotten.

Originally Posted by Diabolical

The notion that 'there was no marketing effort or promotion' is absurd. It had arguably as much as (or more than) Bayonetta did; it just didn't review nearly as well. If anything, we saw the classic case of review scoring doing more to get the masses to 'pass' on a game than a lack of a marketing effort being present. Sadly, a lot of people who see anything below an '8/10' score will balk (especially when it comes to Platinum, a high-pedigree studio). Unfortunately, the masses still think that way today.

That's just not the case. Bayonetta had magazine covers, print ads, television commercials, and extensive point-of-purchase promotion. AR had none of these. I wouldn't dare argue that AR is anywhere near as high-quality a game as Bayonetta, but the large marketing push it received was undeniably responsible for some of its 1.4 million-ish sales.

Originally Posted by Diabolical

May I ask what source you used to cite those numbers? It was widely reported that the game only sold a cumulative amount of around 25,000 units during its Japanese debut week (combined for both consoles), despite being region-free and fully translated. Please enlighten us on your discovery of it finding 'legs' to reach the figure you posted above.

I'm afraid you'll just have to trust me with regards to Max Anarchy's Japanese numbers. A binding contract prevents me from expounding on that point. Of course, some of those sales did come after it was discounted.

Originally Posted by Diabolical

Soul Calibur V went on to ship over 1 million units in its lifetime.

SFxTekken also shipped over 1 million units (disappointment of a game or not).

Anarchy Reigns didn't ship anywhere near those numbers. This is fact.

All fact. I was referring only to lifetime Japanese sales. It goes without saying that SCV and SFxT shifted the majority of their copies outside Japan. It's my belief AR would have fared better in the West had it been released in a timely manner and with proper marketing behind it.

Originally Posted by Diabolical

The 'dark days' you mention for SCV and SFxT must be the equivalent of Armageddon for AR. Unfortunately, the comparison you used holds no relevance.

I apologize if my original post was unclear; the "dark days" I mentioned applied only to the Japanese console market. I sought to defuse your statement that Max Anarchy had tanked in Japan by providing 2012 numbers from the same market for the only comparable game genre.

Originally Posted by Diabolical

The six-month delay was offset by SEGA announcing a massive reduction in day one price (only $29.99 USD instead of the full $59.99), some sweet preorder bonuses (including everyone's favorite Umbra Witch), and a move to a wide-open launch window with no competition. Yet, none of those things saved or helped the game catch on. Again, the 'excuse' regarding the marketing is only a myth. SEGA did what they could.

If I'm not too mistaken, the NA preorder bonus was a gold skin for Jack's chainsaw. GameStop may have had Bayo, but I'm fairly sure she was paid DLC as in Japan.

Originally Posted by Diabolical

Platinum's staff even played the game with the (then) online communities on both consoles during multiple events, both for the Japanese and NA launches. NA even got a second Anniversary event where they participated. In that respect, the game actually had an advantage working in its favor that none of their other single player games did... yet it still didn't help.

Yes, once again PlatinumGames staff doing their damnedest to support the product. All of these events were through platinumgames.com, not Sega.

Originally Posted by Diabolical

I didn't associate Yamanaka-san with 'poor efforts; you just did. I own and adore just about all of the games he worked on, including some that you probably didn't realize he was a part of. When you quoted the post you were trying to argue against, notice how I used the word 'team'? Please make a note of that.

I would be very, very surprised if that were the case. Not to sound harsh, but you have no idea what my knowledge of Yamanaka's professional output is. In any event, the Anarchy "team" as such was reassigned throughout the company onto various other projects, as a glance through MobyGames would reveal. It's not as though Korra and TMNT are "by" a team that existed only during the production of a single game.

Originally Posted by Diabolical

Furthermore, I was alluding to the general perception that the overall gaming populace has about Anarchy Reigns at this point. The people out there who choose 'to buy or not to buy' a prospective PC port are also comprised of the same ones who spoke negatively about AR when discussing the prospect of buying Korra and TMNT when they were revealed. That effect and word of mouth would present a challenge for any marketing effort to overcome.

I wasn't aware the overall gaming populace had a mostly-negative opinion of Anarchy, which is certainly what you're suggesting. It is by no means a game for everyone, but I believe it caters to a certain crowd — those who longed for another PowerStone, say — with aplomb. If it were ported to PC, and if I were in Sega's marketing department, I would focus my efforts on that niche segment. I believe it could be a viable marketing strategy indeed: The best 16-player competitive brawler you never played. But I digress.

Originally Posted by Diabolical

It was widely publicized that the lead 'team' of staff (within Platinum) that primarily handled Anarchy Reigns was responsible for both Korra and TMNT... and TMNT was not a budget release on 8th Generation consoles. The Legend of Korra was the budget release, priced at $14.99 USD. Teenage Mutants Ninja Turtles: Mutants in Manhattan was $49.99 USD (for current gen).

I cannot confirm that the Anarchy "team" was largely responsible for those two games. Of course they shared some staff — Platinum isn't a gigantic developer — but to make a blanket statement to that effect is disingenuous. And I apologize regarding TMNT's MSRP. You are correct in that $49.99 does not constitute a "budget" release (even if it is below the $59.99 all previous Platinum games retailed for).

Originally Posted by Diabolical

Oh, but it is most definitely an issue -and a major one- since being P2P is part of why it had such poor, unstable online performance at times. Would SEGA spend the money and use the extra resources to significantly improve this aspect (or even consider dedicated servers) for the game? If so, then that would only add to the cost of the project.

No, I would not expect Sega to alter the netcode in any way, nor set up dedicated servers. Five years on and with PC gamers being particularly keen on the quality of their connections, I suspect it would play much more smoothly.

Originally Posted by Diabolical

On the other hand, keeping things the way they are (as P2P) would just lead to more people simply choosing to abandon the game due to its poor online stability. Then, on top of that, there would inevitably be demands for patches from all of the people who aren't using to learning how to manage versus the competition... and a need for some type of continued involvement would arise when it comes to eliminating potential 'cheaters'. The bottom line is, it would potentially require further investment to even undertake an AR port to PC compared to other games.

I won't address this — you're venturing too far into the realm of speculation.

Originally Posted by Diabolical

I clearly alluded to some of these things in my initial reply, which you conveniently glossed over.

I hope I'm addressing them now.

Originally Posted by Diabolical

Specs have nothing to do with why Anarchy Reigns didn't catch on (or maintain a healthy community). Like I said, I have nothing personal against the game whatsoever. As stated previously, I imported the game years ago... and I still own it. This is just the reality of the overall situation. Everyone 'wants' things, but it is crucially important to be mindful of where things stand and take an honest, unbiased look at how they got that way.

I believe hardware specs of the time did, in fact, contribute to the decline of Anarchy's online community. In 16-player matches, framerate dips into the 20s and below were constant. A smooth experience would make a world of difference. And again, it is my honest (if admittedly biased) opinion that a number of deeply unfortunate factors led to this game's failure. The product itself was not at fault; I'm sure you can agree it deserved to find an audience larger than ~300,000.

Originally Posted by Diabolical

Again, there are valid reasons why a good number of us are worried about where our beloved SEGA goes from here with this initiative. We want whatever it is that they do to have the very best chances of success... especially considering the number of options they have.

And I am completely on board here. Are there Sega games of the last generation more deserving of PC ports than Anarchy? Absolutely yes. With specific regards to Platinum, the fact that Platinum Engine games like Metal Gear Rising and now Bayonetta run beautifully on PC leads me to believe a Vanquish port is very likely. So...why not go for the Sega/Platinum PS360 three-game-deal trifecta?

I'm not trying to be belligerent, nor dismiss your opinions. Heck, Anarchy could be the -last- game Platinum ports, and I'd be happy.

I want nothing but the best for Sega's PC initiative, and I simply hope Platinum has the chance to port their entire Sega-published library to PC — a desire they recently expressed on Twitter.

Edit: I'd like to leave the discussion as it stands. I acknowledge your opinions, and I have nothing further to add on this particular subject. Let's agree to disagree.
Diabolical
Junior Member
(04-15-2017, 02:16 AM)
Diabolical's Avatar

Originally Posted by Aokage

AR had no print advertisement, no point-of-purchase marketing, nothing that would alert the general gaming public to its existence.

It's quite ironic that for a game that 'didn't have any marketing", many people sure did know about it being delayed...

It sounds like you wanted (even more) money to be 'potentially' lost on the project, and the only reason I state this is because with all of the things this game did have working in its favor, it still had limited reception... as well as limited player retention.

As previously stated, other games had even less going for them in terms of promotion... and some of them did better commercially than Anarchy Reigns did.

Originally Posted by Aokage

Indeed they did, and they waited...and waited...and waited. This is a matter of opinion, but I believe the enthusiast hype peaked around the time of its Japanese release, and half a year later was largely forgotten.

That is indeed a matter of opinion you have presented there. I agree with you on that.

Originally Posted by Aokage

Bayonetta had magazine covers

Unless a major 'AAA' publisher is involved, not many games that review below the 8-9/10 range even receive those.

Originally Posted by Aokage

print ads

See above.

Originally Posted by Aokage

television commercials

True... and this is one I can actually give you credit for. AR didn't have any TV commercials that I am aware of, but it probably wouldn't have saved the game from an eventual early death (from an experienced player standpoint), sadly. I'm not sure how long you actually played the game (or the last time you did), but my reasoning for saying this is solely backed by game experience.

Are you expecting them to spend the cash on some of those ads and TV commercials for the game now for a PC port? If so, then it would be interesting to see how that would work out for the people who foot the bills.

Originally Posted by Aokage

and extensive point-of-purchase promotion. AR had none of these.

Most games in general (circa 2012-13ish) didn't have any of those.

Originally Posted by Aokage

I'm afraid you'll just have to trust me with regards to Max Anarchy's Japanese numbers. A binding contract prevents me from expounding on that point. Of course, some of those sales did come after it was discounted.

Even if you were to prove those numbers to be correct, they are still low... even compared to some of SEGA's (and Platinum's) other efforts.

Originally Posted by Aokage

All fact. I was referring only to lifetime Japanese sales. It goes without saying that SCV and SFxT shifted the majority of their copies outside Japan. It's my belief AR would have fared better in the West had it been released in a timely manner and with proper marketing behind it.

We are all free to 'speculate' on what 'might have been' or what 'could have been'.

However, what actually happened -and what happens from here- puts a lot a stake.

Originally Posted by Aokage

I apologize if my original post was unclear; the "dark days" I mentioned applied only to the Japanese console market. I sought to defuse your statement that Max Anarchy had tanked in Japan by providing 2012 numbers from the same market for the only comparable game genre.

That is okay; I feel no ill will or contempt coming from your direction. We have had a cordial disagreement and civil, mature discussion.

Originally Posted by Aokage

If I'm not too mistaken, the NA preorder bonus was a gold skin for Jack's chainsaw. GameStop may have had Bayo, but I'm fairly sure she was paid DLC as in Japan.

Incorrect. Bayonetta was a worldwide preorder bonus. She was included with my Japanese import copy.

For NA launch: The North American territory got Bayonetta as a preorder bonus on Day One, PLUS the Extra Modes Pack DLC and a $30 off discount (leaving the price at $29.99). Those were some noteworthy perks that SEGA tried to sell AR with. Sadly, even the presence of the Umbra Witch (for 'free' on release day) didn't seem to help AR.

The Golden Chainsaw was (and is) exclusive to Japan. It was part of an actual Japanese promotion, but later added to the online stores for purchase for those who didn't get a chance to participate.

A PC port would surely be $19.99 USD, but then again, that decision would have to be made by SEGA.

Originally Posted by Aokage

Yes, once again PlatinumGames staff doing their damnedest to support the product. All of these events were through platinumgames.com, not Sega.

Oh, so nobody funded them for that? Interesting, but quite unfortunate...

Originally Posted by Aokage

I would be very, very surprised if that were the case.

If you say so.

Originally Posted by Aokage

Not to sound harsh, but you have no idea what my knowledge of Yamanaka's professional output is.

That works both ways.

Originally Posted by Aokage

In any event, the Anarchy "team" as such was reassigned throughout the company onto various other projects. It's not as though Korra and TMNT are "by" a team that existed only during the production of a single game.

My point about this was regarding what a vocal segment of the populace that pays attention to Platinum's output has stated previously, not necessarily what I personally believe. Word of mouth is nothing to underestimate, no matter how erroneous or incomplete it might be.

Originally Posted by Aokage

I wasn't aware the overall gaming populace had a mostly-negative opinion of Anarchy, which is certainly what you're suggesting.

No, I have flat out told you. If you search a bit, you can find those sentiments yourself.

Those of us who understand the game 'get it', but there is a segment of people out there that have a negative opinion of Anarchy Reigns... and they tend to spread it.

Originally Posted by Aokage

It is by no means a game for everyone, but I believe it caters to a certain crowd

Agreed. AR is an acquired taste and not for everyone. Though I am quite sure that a publisher would want it to 'cater to a larger crowd' than it did last time around.

Originally Posted by Aokage

but I believe it caters to... those who longed for another PowerStone...

Now this I disagree with. It might be 'reminiscent' to some as being akin to Power Stone on the surface, but they are far, far different games altogether. People going in expecting something that actually 'plays' like Power Stone would probably be a bit upset with you if you marketed AR that way.

Anarchy Reigns is more like a multiplayer GodHand mixed with other elements. It's not that similar to Power Stone at all, apart from both games only having two games released in their respective series (MadWorld is AR's predecessor).

The gameplay in Power Stone is much, much easier to simply pick up and play, while Anarchy Reigns gameplay requires a surprising amount of technical understanding. AR is not nearly as easy on newcomers. If you're new to the game, then expect to get literally shredded until you invest the time to 'get it'. Most people just bail.

And if they simplified the gameplay or 'dumbed it down' from where it is, then it wouldn't be AR anymore.

Originally Posted by Aokage

If it were ported to PC, and if I were in Sega's marketing department, I would focus my efforts on that niche segment. I believe it could be a viable marketing strategy indeed: The best 16-player competitive brawler you never played. But I digress.

Would be interesting to see how that would work out in the end. Everything they tried 'failed' last time.

Originally Posted by Aokage

I cannot confirm that the Anarchy "team" was largely responsible for those two games. Of course they shared some staff Platinum isn't a gigantic developer but to make a blanket statement to that effect is disingenuous.

Again, I think this is one of those things that you might need to take up with the general populace among the internet, namely those who followed Korra's and TMNT's respective announcement's and releases. Much of that stuff still exists on forums where those games were discussed.

In terms of opinion, the primary thing I have spoken of personally (with regards to this) is my concern for the initiative in general.

Originally Posted by Aokage

And I apologize regarding TMNT's MSRP. You are correct in that $49.99 does not constitute a "budget" release (even if it is below the $59.99 all previous Platinum games retailed for).

No worries at all. You are welcome.

Originally Posted by Aokage

No, I would not expect Sega to alter the netcode in any way, nor set up dedicated servers.

Well... whatever happens happens then. Good luck to them, should they go that route. Just expecting to see many of the same problems all over again... and that's not even factoring in anything else.

Originally Posted by Aokage

Five years on and with PC gamers being particularly keen on the quality of their connections, I suspect it would play much more smoothly.

Sheer speculation -albeit optimistic- once again.

As a PC gamer myself (with a properly set up '1000/1000 tier' fiber-optic connection in the US), I am certain that this won't amount to any improvement if they don't invest in doing something to improve things in this area.

Originally Posted by Aokage

I won't address this you're venturing too far into the realm of speculation.

We will see just how much of what I said becomes a reality after they do the port. Just you watch. I firmly believe I'm going to be correct about those things and the reasoning behind that comes from possessing a good bit of prior AR multiplayer experience.

Originally Posted by Aokage

I hope I'm addressing them now.

Not really, but again... just wait and see. We will probably find out soon enough.

Originally Posted by Aokage

I believe hardware specs of the time did, in fact, contribute to the decline of Anarchy's online community. In 16-player matches, framerate dips into the 20s and below were constant. A smooth experience would make a world of difference.

You must not have played enough to notice how the actually game performs worse during a fully populated online environment compared to offline. And yet you expect them to risk keeping the network P2P... potentially inheriting those problems with latency??

Interesting.

Originally Posted by Aokage

And again, it is my honest (if admittedly biased) opinion that a number of deeply unfortunate factors led to this game's failure.

Well, at least you can admit this. Haha.

Originally Posted by Aokage

The product itself was not at fault; I'm sure you can agree it deserved to find an audience larger than ~300,000.

It was presented to an audience of over 100million+ gamers (combined across PS3 and XB360 at the time when it released). If it only found a way to reach ~300k back then (according to your figures), well... that kind of speaks for itself. That is not a good attach rate. The game is just a tough sell; it would require some VERY clever marketing and a lot more resources put into it in order to expect more.

Furthermore, finding an audience is one thing (and this alone can be challenging and/or costly), but keeping an audience is a wholly different matter altogether... especially if you're not expecting any post-release support for a highly competitive online multiplayer game, which AR happens to be.

Originally Posted by Aokage

So...why not go for the Sega/Platinum PS360 three-game-deal trifecta?

They probably will. But the thing is, Anarchy is a very, very different proposition to undertake compared to something like MGR, Bayonetta, and Vanquish.

P.S. MadWorld shouldn't be left out. In my opinion, MadWorld should definitely precede an Anarchy Reigns port. Same for Vanquish.

Originally Posted by Aokage

I'm not trying to be belligerent, nor dismiss your opinions. Heck, Anarchy could be the -last- game Platinum ports, and I'd be happy.

I'd personally be happy with whatever SEGA does, because I am not going to act like I am even entitled to anything at all. I am quite happy with what I already own from them over these years of being a devoted fan. I am privileged to be able to continue this hobby and realize that they owe nothing to me.

Originally Posted by Aokage

I want nothing but the best for Sega's PC initiative, and I simply hope Platinum has the chance to port their entire Sega-published library to PC a desire they recently expressed on Twitter.

Correction: They weren't just referring only to SEGA games. They were referring to all of their games, period.

Obviously if they had it their way, they would publish everywhere. They need all the contracts they can get as an independent studio-for-hire. I'm sure they would love to port Bayonetta 2 (following Bayonetta PC's 'soon to be confirmed success') and The Wonderful 101 as well... but those are calls that would need to be made by Nintendo. The Publisher and/or IP owner makes those decisions. From here on, I do believe that whatever 'new' projects PG takes on in the future will be pitched with PC editions also in mind.

To close this out, let me reiterate this:

Platinum is great, yes. As I stated before, their pedigree speaks for itself. But we must not lose sight of the fact that SEGA also has other games (and quite a few of them that could easily be more lucrative for them than Anarchy Reigns) within their portfolio that they should also consider. There are many other games that would be 'sure-fire hits' for them across the board, and those games would be a lot less risky to revisit from multiple vantage points.

EDIT: My reply was posted in haste. I thought we were done previously, then it appeared that you had responded (expecting a reply).

Yeah, let's just drop this civil discussion and enjoy our weekend. And don't forget to wish SEGA (and PG) all of the best!!!
Aokage
Pretty nice guy (apart from the blue shadows thing...)
(04-15-2017, 02:55 AM)
Aokage's Avatar

Originally Posted by Diabolical

Lots o' stuff

Ah, but now it's turned into quite a stimulating conversation, actually! You have a lot of valid points, and indeed I learned quite a bit I was not aware of. Yes, this is why I love GAF.

(PS Please check your PMs. You may get a bit more insight on where I'm coming from.)
Anteater
Member
(04-15-2017, 03:06 AM)
Anteater's Avatar
do i wanna read those posts?
Diabolical
Junior Member
(04-15-2017, 07:00 AM)
Diabolical's Avatar
Well, it is Easter weekend... and it seems that either that or this recent discussion today between Aokage and myself has brought out a few old AR veterans from hibernation. There is an 8-man lobby going tonight!!!

Would be swell if it could sustain itself beyond the weekend -- I'm gonna be optimistic.

Originally Posted by Anteater

do i wanna read those posts?

They appear to be intimidatingly long... and understandably so. But they do provide a 'somewhat' in-depth analysis coming from various angles regarding the AR subject.

In the end, Aokage and I both agree that despite being 'fans' of AR and seeing things from differing points of view, we will accept whatever SEGA decides to do from here. We both support the initiative that has been brought to the forefront by this wonderful thread and would definitely like to see it continue.
LewieP
Member
(04-15-2017, 07:22 AM)
LewieP's Avatar
Both would be good, but Vanquish would probably do a lot better than Anarchy Reigns.

Yakuza and Persona would probably be big too, if done right.
Aokage
Pretty nice guy (apart from the blue shadows thing...)
(04-15-2017, 08:30 AM)
Aokage's Avatar

Originally Posted by Anteater

do i wanna read those posts?

Very much echoing Diabolical's post. It's been some time since I had such a spirited discussion on GAF that truly felt like a worthwhile back-and-forth, but it might be a bit of a slog.

tl;dr — We have differing views on Anarchy Reigns's viability as a PC title, but it goes without saying we're both excited and passionate about Sega's new openness vis-a-vis PC ports.

Originally Posted by LewieP

Both would be good, but Vanquish would probably do a lot better than Anarchy Reigns.

Yakuza and Persona would probably be big too, if done right.

Oh man, Persona 4 and 5 would be at the top of my list, if only because I'm positive they'd do well on PC and open up the majesty of that series to an entirely new audience.

I'd bet money Vanquish will happen.

The recent Yakuza series would also be fantastic. 0, 1 remake, 3, 4, 5 and 6 would all look quite decent on PC. Unfortunately, 2 would remain stuck in PS2 asset land :/

Edit: And hey why not localize Kenzan! and Ishin while they're at it?? (HIGHLY unlikely, I know.)
.:Wesker:.
Member
(04-15-2017, 03:43 PM)
.:Wesker:.'s Avatar

Originally Posted by Aokage

The recent Yakuza series would also be fantastic. 0, 1 remake, 3, 4, 5 and 6 would all look quite decent on PC. Unfortunately, 2 would remain stuck in PS2 asset land :/

Edit: And hey why not localize Kenzan! and Ishin while they're at it?? (HIGHLY unlikely, I know.)

I'm sure Yakuza 2 will get the remake treatment either this year or next year, but Sega could absolutely port 0 and Kiwami to PC if they wanted to introduce the series to that market. Localization is already taken care of, and Devil's Details/Little Stone have already ported a game using the Yakuza team's engine (Binary Domain) so that would hopefully expedite a potential Yakuza port, even if only slightly.

Of course, all of this is only possible if Sega doesn't 'owe' Sony exclusivity for their financial assistance with the localizations of 5, 0, Kiwami, and 6.
lucebuce12
Member
(04-15-2017, 03:48 PM)
lucebuce12's Avatar

Originally Posted by .:Wesker:.

Of course, all of this is only possible if Sega doesn't 'owe' Sony exclusivity for their financial assistance with the localizations of 5, 0, Kiwami, and 6.

The only game that Sony specifically helped with the localization of, was Yakuza 5.

Sam Mullen who's a producer at Atlus USA confirmed as much.

Originally Posted by Null Pointer

Hey guys, Sam Mullen here, producer at Atlus USA managing SEGA's JP lineup. I keep seeing this restated and I feel like it's causing a lot of misunderstanding, so I want to just set the record straight once and for all.

Sony has been an amazing partner, and we infinitely appreciate all their help and attention to this series. Without them, Y5 wouldn't have made it.

But their third party production team's involvement was limited to Yakuza 5. They have no involvement with 0, Kiwami, or Yakuza 6. For that, please direct all your love towards Atlus USA and SEGA themselves.

And keep rockin' YakuzaGAF. See you all in the 24th.

epmode
Member
(04-15-2017, 03:50 PM)
epmode's Avatar

Originally Posted by LewieP

Yakuza and Persona would probably be big too, if done right.

Both of these would make a mint, Persona in particular. Waifu stuff really sells on PC. I'd happily rebuy every game I already own.
demosthenes
Member
(04-15-2017, 04:06 PM)
demosthenes's Avatar

Originally Posted by epmode

Both of these would make a mint, Persona in particular. Waifu stuff really sells on PC. I'd happy rebuy every game I already own.

I would pay so much for persona 4
3, 4 and 5. I still own 3 and 4 but c t play them 😣
.:Wesker:.
Member
(04-15-2017, 04:24 PM)
.:Wesker:.'s Avatar

Originally Posted by lucebuce12

The only game that Sony specifically helped with the localization of, was Yakuza 5.

Sam Mullen who's a producer at Atlus USA confirmed as much.

That's good to hear. It still isn't clear whether Sony generally expects exclusivity in a situation like that, but a PC port of Yakuza 5 probably wouldn't have come up this decade anyways.

So what else might hold ports of 0 and Kiwami back? Clearly the dev team doesn't have absolute loyalty to Sony platforms considering that HD compilation that ended up on Wii U, and Binary Domain showing up on 360 and PC.
RyuKanSan
Member
(04-15-2017, 08:02 PM)
RyuKanSan's Avatar
Sega all I'm asking for is Resonance of Fate. Please and thank you.

Signed

A PC JRPG guy.
oneida
Cock Strain, Lifetime Warranty
(04-24-2017, 06:52 PM)
oneida's Avatar
well well well...

if the Vanquish buzz is true, could it mean my years of suffering are almost over?

Neptonic
Member
(04-24-2017, 06:54 PM)
Neptonic's Avatar
It's happening fam
celsowmbr
Member
(04-24-2017, 07:24 PM)
celsowmbr's Avatar
Maybe 2017 come to be the Year-of-Sega-Pc-ports !

Let's pray guys !
gelf
Member
(04-24-2017, 08:02 PM)
gelf's Avatar

Originally Posted by oneida

well well well...

if the Vanquish buzz is true, could it mean my years of suffering are almost over?

My concern on that is how much of these ports is a Platinum effort rather then a Sega effort. I'll only feel entirely happy if I start seeing games developed in house receiving ports as well.
sixteen-bit
Member
(04-24-2017, 08:18 PM)

Originally Posted by oneida

well well well...

if the Vanquish buzz is true, could it mean my years of suffering are almost over?

we about to get that VF5 stimulus package, breh
_Aaron_
Member
(04-24-2017, 08:56 PM)
_Aaron_'s Avatar
Puyo Puyo Tetris needs to be part of this campaign.

Anyone know why OutRun 2006 was removed from Steam? It'd be nice to see that back.
sixteen-bit
Member
(04-24-2017, 09:15 PM)

Originally Posted by _Aaron_

Puyo Puyo Tetris needs to be part of this campaign.

Anyone know why OutRun 2006 was removed from Steam? It'd be nice to see that back.

Sega's Ferrari license expired, I believe.
ikarinokami
Banned
(04-28-2017, 09:33 PM)
seriously what's taking VF5:FS so long. in the arcade it run on a pc board. I suppose quest mode would require some coding, but it has to easier that either vanguish or bayonetta?
Linkark07
Member
(04-28-2017, 09:44 PM)
Linkark07's Avatar

Originally Posted by demosthenes

I would pay so much for persona 4
3, 4 and 5. I still own 3 and 4 but c t play them ��

Never have thought of Persona 3 port for PC. If Atlus (doubtful this will ever happen) would port Persona 3 to PC, which would they choose. FES but no FeMC or Portable with FeMC but no Answer and VN gameplay for daily life. Sadly, I think they will go with FES.

They should do another Persona 3 with the PS2 gameplay and updated visuals with FeMC.
sixteen-bit
Member
(04-28-2017, 09:46 PM)

Originally Posted by Linkark07

Never have thought of Persona 3 port for PC. If Atlus (doubtful this will ever happen) would port Persona 3 to PC, which would they choose. FES but no FeMC or Portable with FeMC but no Answer and VN gameplay for daily life. Sadly, I think they will go with FES.

They should do another Persona 3 with the PS2 gameplay and updated visuals with FeMC.

If we're talking PS2-era Atlus, I'm hoping for Nocturne
Linkark07
Member
(04-28-2017, 09:49 PM)
Linkark07's Avatar

Originally Posted by sixteen-bit

If we're talking PS2-era Atlus, I'm hoping for Nocturne

Yeah, between Persona 3, Persona 4 or the other Shin Megami Tensei games, I would love Nocturne to be the first SMT game on PC.
sixteen-bit
Member
(05-08-2017, 05:15 PM)
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost...postcount=2712


Originally Posted by Hektor

Originally Posted by Dessart

Is this nothing?

https://twitter.com/SEGA_Europe/stat...96714221916161

It's a logo from the russians in vanquish

Theonik
Member
(05-08-2017, 05:21 PM)
Theonik's Avatar

Originally Posted by sixteen-bit

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost...postcount=2712

Fix yo textures SEGA.
Vazra
irresponsible vagina leak
(05-08-2017, 05:24 PM)
Can Sega use this for Resonance of Fate teaser if that happens?
Lime
Member
(05-08-2017, 05:26 PM)
Lime's Avatar

Originally Posted by Vazra

Can Sega use this for Resonance of Fate teaser if that happens?

or this?

Linkark07
Member
(05-08-2017, 05:34 PM)
Linkark07's Avatar

Originally Posted by Lime

or this?

Vazra
irresponsible vagina leak
(05-08-2017, 05:35 PM)

Originally Posted by Lime

or this?

Even better
celsowmbr
Member
(05-09-2017, 01:35 AM)
celsowmbr's Avatar
Just checking... [updating]

- Valkyria Chronicles
- Bayonetta
- Vanquish
- Virtua Fighter 5
- Jet Set Radio Future
- Shenmue 1 & 2
- Panzer Dragon (all?)
- Skies of Arcadia
- Resonance of Fate
- Anarchy Reigns
BasilZero
Member
(05-09-2017, 01:44 AM)
BasilZero's Avatar

Originally Posted by celsowmbr

Just checking...

- Valkyria Chronicles
- Bayonetta
- Vanquish
- Virtua Fighter 5
- Jet Set Radio Future
- Shenmue 1 & 2




Where mah Sonic Heroes yo ;(
PantsuJo
Member
(05-09-2017, 01:49 AM)
PantsuJo's Avatar

Originally Posted by celsowmbr

Just checking...

- Valkyria Chronicles
- Bayonetta
- Vanquish
- Virtua Fighter 5
- Jet Set Radio Future
- Shenmue 1 & 2

- Resonance of Fate
- Anarchy Reigns
- Panzer fucking Dragoon Orta
- Gunvalkyrie (why not?)
RedSwirl
Junior Member
(05-09-2017, 01:56 AM)
RedSwirl's Avatar
Look man, where the fuck is Skies of Arcadia?
Gaspard
Member
(05-09-2017, 01:59 AM)
Gaspard's Avatar


When?
celsowmbr
Member
(05-09-2017, 03:00 AM)
celsowmbr's Avatar

Originally Posted by BasilZero

Where mah Sonic Heroes yo ;(

here:https://www.amazon.com/Sonic-Heroes-Pc/dp/B0006O4VNM

But no Steam yet, unfortunately...
Baron von Loathsome
Member
(05-09-2017, 03:08 AM)
Baron von Loathsome's Avatar

Originally Posted by BasilZero

Where mah Sonic Heroes yo ;(

At least gimme Sonic Riders. That was the shit when I was a kid.
Shadoken
Member
(05-09-2017, 03:11 AM)
Shadoken's Avatar

Originally Posted by Baron von Loathsome

At least gimme Sonic Riders. That was the shit when I was a kid.

Originally Posted by BasilZero

Where mah Sonic Heroes yo ;(

Lol didnt these release on PC a while back? Am surprised they didnt throw it on Steam along when they added SA1 and 2.
Shaneus
Member
(05-09-2017, 03:35 AM)
Shaneus's Avatar

Originally Posted by Shadoken

Lol didnt these release on PC a while back? Am surprised they didnt throw it on Steam along when they added SA1 and 2.

Surprise Sega release! I heard they saw this thread and decided to release Sonic Heroes and Sonic Riders for PC! New thread worthy!
martincrimson87
Banned
(05-09-2017, 03:51 AM)
Is SEGA related with Vanillaware in any shape or form? Odin Sphere and Muramasa would be great on PC.
Diabolical
Junior Member
(05-09-2017, 04:00 AM)
Diabolical's Avatar

Originally Posted by Shaneus

I heard they saw this thread and decided to release Sonic Heroes and Sonic Riders for PC! New thread worthy!

Speaking of Sonic, PC releases of Sonic Unleashed and Sonic Colors probably aren't out of the question either. Same goes for Shadow the Hedgehog.

Originally Posted by celsowmbr

Just checking... [updating]

- Valkyria Chronicles
- Bayonetta
- Vanquish
- Virtua Fighter 5
- Jet Set Radio Future
- Shenmue 1 & 2
- Panzer Dragon (all?)
- Skies of Arcadia
- Resonance of Fate
- MadWorld (this shouldn't be left out -- it contains a myriad of references that precede its spiritual successor)
- Anarchy Reigns

Hesh
Member
(05-09-2017, 04:02 AM)
Hesh's Avatar

Originally Posted by Gaspard



When?

I legit thought there was a chance after Typing of the Dead got ported, but I guess it was not meant to be.
Shaneus
Member
(05-09-2017, 04:56 AM)
Shaneus's Avatar

Originally Posted by Hesh

I legit thought there was a chance after Typing of the Dead got ported, but I guess it was not meant to be.

That's only TotD Overkill though, isn't it? Technically not a port, because it didn't come out on anything else.

And neither did the original TotD, other than arcades.

Fake edit: Shit, it did come out on PC! I need to track that down.
ezodagrom
Member
(05-09-2017, 10:36 AM)
ezodagrom's Avatar

Originally Posted by celsowmbr

Just checking... [updating]

- Valkyria Chronicles
- Bayonetta
- Vanquish
- Virtua Fighter 5
- Jet Set Radio Future
- Shenmue 1 & 2
- Panzer Dragon (all?)
- Skies of Arcadia
- Resonance of Fate
- Anarchy Reigns

List needs Yakuza and Hatsune Miku.
Lime
Member
(05-09-2017, 10:40 AM)
Lime's Avatar

Originally Posted by martincrimson87

Is SEGA related with Vanillaware in any shape or form? Odin Sphere and Muramasa would be great on PC.

Sega acquired Atlus (who published Vanillaware's Odin Sphere and Dragon's Crown), but this hasn't helped the distribution of these titles - e.g. Dragon's Crown has been pulled from EU PSN because NISA no longer publishes the Atlus titles in the EU any longer and it's been over a year and the issue hasn't been fixed yet.
sixteen-bit
Member
(05-09-2017, 02:51 PM)

Originally Posted by Lime

Sega acquired Atlus (who published Vanillaware's Odin Sphere and Dragon's Crown), but this hasn't helped the distribution of these titles - e.g. Dragon's Crown has been pulled from EU PSN because NISA no longer publishes the Atlus titles in the EU any longer and it's been over a year and the issue hasn't been fixed yet.

Dragon's Crown is back on EU PSN tho
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1346967

Thread Tools