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Apparently Atlus requested removal of all Persona 5 info from RPCS3 site

M

MUnited83

For you.
ScientificPizza said:
You know it's possible to talk on the internet without sounding like a complete dickhead, right?
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It's also possible for publishers to be publishers without being complete utter assholes, but here we are.
Eusis said:
Because people being able to pirate a game isn't a potential reason? They won't care if people can still get the game legitimately and play it that way, much as the likes of Nintendo and Sony don't tolerate homebrew for the legit uses.
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They might want to start taking down PS3 websites talking about the PS3 version then, considering the PS3 version has been pirated since day one. Should just remove all mentions of Persona 5 in any PS3 related website tbh

Saint of Killers said:
Of course none of that will happen, but my guess would be that Atlus still need to be seen to be doing this stuff so if it ever ends up in court, etc they can say they defended their copyright or whatever.
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No, that's not how copyright works.
 
K

KojiKnight

Member
Frumix said:
They don't really have legal grounds to ask somebody to remove the mention of it from compatibility list though. Owning a valid copy and trying to play it on RPCS3 isn't even illegal. That's beyond petty.
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Sony tried this with Bleem!. It was part of the lawsuit. US courts ruled in favor of Bleem! Using images from official ps1 games on their website and packaging.

Sega/Atlus have zero legal footing here. It's be thrown out pretty quick, but it'd still be a lot of legal garbage to deal with.
 
D

duckroll

Member
BernardoOne said:
Oh yes, they hate PC so little that they in fact became the very first publishers threatening a emulator that runs over a thousand games.

No sir, they totally don't hate PC and this is totally a super common thing for a publisher to do yes sir
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They were also the first publisher I can think of to actually region lock a significant PS3 game. They are also one of the few publishers who threatened streamers not to stream beyond a certain point in the game. Soon they will be one of the only publishers who will a PS4 remaster of a 5 year old PS3/Vita title in Japan for almost 80 dollars without any content additions.

Atlus likes to be unique in a lot of things.
 
G

Guess Who

Banned
KojiKnight said:
Sony tried this with Bleem!. It was part of the lawsuit. US courts ruled in favor of Bleem! Using images from official ps1 games on their website and packaging.
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Yup. Bleem! is pretty much the number one legal precedent for emulation in the US, and, surprise - not only is emulation legal, but using screenshots from games is fair use, and hell, Bleem! was even allowed to sell their emulator!

The problem, though, is that the case also proved something much harsher. It didn't matter that Bleem! won, because the money they spent fighting the lawsuit was enough to put them out of business. Even if Atlus doesn't have a legal leg to stand on, the RPCS3 devs almost certainly don't have the legal team or funds to fight it.
 
S

Sad Affleck

Member
Cuningas de Häme;250042074 said:
In my opinion they have every right to ask for removal, because it is not officially stated compability. It is just some weeb who made an emulator and says that it works with it.
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They absolutely have no legal right to deny the mere mention of a game on a compatibility list. They're just being assholes about it because they know the developers don't want to end up in court over this even if it's certain that Atlus will lose in a spectacular fashion.
 
2

2blackcats

Member
If ratio of pirated copies is high (say more than 50 %), this seems reasonable enough.

Otherwise not so much.

Jeeze, I wish we could just kill piracy dead.
 
D

Durante

Member
duckroll said:
They were also the first publisher I can think of to actually region lock a significant PS3 game. They are also one of the few publishers who threatened streamers not to stream beyond a certain point in the game. Soon they will be one of the only publishers who will a PS4 remaster of a 5 year old PS3/Vita title in Japan for almost 80 dollars without any content additions.

Atlus likes to be unique in a lot of things.
Click to expand...
I was about to post those two first points.

888.jpg
Click to expand...
(Imagine an Atlus Photoshop here, no access to the tools right now :p)
 
S

sheaaaa

Member
BernardoOne said:
Oh yes, they hate PC so little that they in fact became the very first publishers threatening a emulator that runs over a thousand games.

No sir, they totally don't hate PC and this is totally a super common thing for a publisher to do yes sir
Click to expand...

I don't think we live in a world where million-dollar companies hate platforms they could potentially put their games on. It's a bit of a childish attitude to take.
 
R

ramoisdead

Member
duckroll said:
They were also the first publisher I can think of to actually region lock a significant PS3 game. They are also one of the few publishers who threatened streamers not to stream beyond a certain point in the game. Soon they will be one of the only publishers who will a PS4 remaster of a 5 year old PS3/Vita title in Japan for almost 80 dollars without any content additions.

Atlus likes to be unique in a lot of things.
Click to expand...

Dear lord, what a bonehead maneuver to do that with Persona 4 Arena. Atlus JP just keeps doing asinine shit as if this were the 1990s.
 
M

MUnited83

For you.
MetalliCabombination said:
.. No... Theyre just a business catering to their own interests, but you do you i guess.
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If by "own interests" you mean "dumb decisions that actively go against the main purpose of a business" yeah, that sentence might make some sense.
Atlus are a bunch of outdated assholes. This is a fact, not an opinion.




But please do explain the business genius of going against streamers and destroying their channels, being the only ones going against an emulator, and being the only ones region locking a fucking PS3 game.
 
P

Phrozenflame500

Member
MetalliCabombination said:
.. No... Theyre just a business catering to their own interests, but you do you i guess.
Click to expand...

It's a little childish considering there doesn't appear to be any particularly good business rationale for it. Even if we didn't have a report showing piracy didn't affect sales I doubt a niche PC emulation directly competes with their console releases.
 
I

Ionic

Member
Saint of Killers said:
Of course none of that will happen, but my guess would be that Atlus still need to be seen to be doing this stuff so if it ever ends up in court, etc they can say they defended their copyright/trademark.
Click to expand...

But why doesn't literally any other publisher need to do this for their games?

Edit: They're not even doing it with all of their games given Catherine and Persona 4 Arena are still on the website.
 
C

cw_sasuke

If all DLC came tied to $13 figurines, I'd consider all DLC to be free
If this results in Atlus working on a PC release of P5 themselves im all for it.

But since that doesn't seem to be the case it's a very weird move.
 
P

Pepboy

Member
Omeganex9999 said:
Don't expect it anytime soon, but we should definitely have news by next TGS.
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This is my hope as well. Maybe a PC / Switch announcement of the original Persona 5 could also be in store? Unless the PC / Switch version is persona 5 golden.

I think Persona 3 and Persona 3 FES having such a short time gap made me really hope for too much this time around.
 
G

GhostTrick

Banned
sheaaaa said:
I don't think we live in a world where million-dollar companies hate platforms they could potentially put their games on. It's a bit of a childish attitude to take.
Click to expand...



We live in a world where a multi million dollar company moved its office because a fortune teller told them so.(Square Enix)

We live in a world where a multi million dollar company spent millions on various projects just because they were fans of some developpers or games. (CyGames)

We live in a world where companies are run by humans with feelings and in a world where we saw decisions took by humans driven by these feelings.

Even though I think the Atlus-PC stuff is more about incompetence and being backward, I cant blame someone else thinking that.
 
R

ramoisdead

Member
Ionic said:
But why doesn't literally any other publisher need to do this for their games?
Click to expand...

Because every other publisher thinks this is a waste of time. The executives over at Atlus JP for some reason thinks this is a valid enough business decision to waste time and money on...over a niche damn emulator.
 
G

Guess Who

Banned
You don't have to imagine some silly fantasy of "Atlus wants to throw PC gamers into a fire and laugh as they burn!!!!!!" to understand why Atlus would do something like this. You just have to think like a ridiculously old-fashioned Japanese corporation that treats their increasingly large western market like an afterthought.

1. We aren't selling Persona 5 on PC, because the PC market in Japan is relatively niche and we're out of touch with western audiences
2. These people are saying you can use their software to play Persona 5 on PC
3. We aren't making any money from those people
4. People could ostensibly play pirated copies of P5 this way
5. We don't want these people using our product to advertise theirs

And boom, there you have it.
 
S

Stumpokapow

listen to the mad man
Cuningas de Häme;250042074 said:
"Own games", yeah right.

People who play their own games through emulators are just a drop in the ocean compared to those who just download the game free from some site.
Click to expand...

This is not what the thread is going to be about because no one cares what you think.
 
D

duckroll

Member
Durante said:
Companies are run by people.
Click to expand...

Yes but I think he does have a point that hate is unlikely to be a motivating factor here. Atlus has a history of wanting to control how people use their software and they have really weird ideas of what their entitlement is as IP holders. This is clearly a boneheaded legal matter which makes no logical sense, but it seems unlikely that someone from Atlus woke up one day and said "I hate PC games! How can I fuck them up more?!" :)
 
I

Ionic

Member
ramoisdead said:
Because every other publisher thinks this is a waste of time. The executives over at Atlus JP for some reason thinks this is a valid enough business decision to waste time and money on...over a niche damn emulator.
Click to expand...

It becomes even more ridiculous when you realize they aren't even doing this for all their games. Catherine is still up there.
 
O

Opa-Pa

Member
Guess Who said:
You don't have to imagine some silly fantasy of "Atlus wants to throw PC gamers into a fire and laugh as they burn!!!!!!" to understand why Atlus would do something like this. You just have to think like a ridiculously old-fashioned Japanese corporation that treats their increasingly large western market like an afterthought.

1. We aren't selling Persona 5 on PC, because the PC market in Japan is relatively niche and we're out of touch with western audiences
2. These people are saying you can use their software to play Persona 5 on PC
3. We aren't making any money from those people
4. People could ostensibly play pirated copies of P5 this way
5. We don't want these people using our product to advertise theirs

And boom, there you have it.
Click to expand...

This is such a weird thread lol, what a clusterfuck. Yes, it's bizarre that Atlus is going to these lengths, yes, they don't have legal ground to do this, and yes, it's silly that they're old fashioned about emulation, but this^ is still clearly the most likely scenario.

I seriously thought people were being sarcastic at first. The "companies are run by people" thing is obviously true, but you can't use it to explain points like that, I mean I could come up with any weird theory about some game company and justify it with that.
 
E

Eusis

Member
BernardoOne said:
They might want to start taking down PS3 websites talking about the PS3 version then, considering the PS3 version has been pirated since day one. Should just remove all mentions of Persona 5 in any PS3 related website tbh
Click to expand...
If this was a fully logical and sensible move they probably would go after talk on sites dedicated to homebrew and hacking hardware. But more likely they just see there's an emulator that can run the game without approval and are trying to nuke everything as if that'd make it go away or reduce awareness. Ignoring that the Streisand Effect is a thing.

But this =/= hate PC. At worst they'd hate that it's a platform that DRM can be circumvented on... and annoyingly they wouldn't be alone on that.
 
D

duckroll

Member
2blackcats said:
Um, what?

Piracy is surely the only reason Atlus have taken an interest.
Click to expand...

If you consider that they don't want people who own the game on PS3 and PS4 taking screenshots or videos using the built in OS tools of the respective systems, I don't think we can assume that piracy would SURELY be the only reason. If they don't want me to take screenshots of a game I own on disc, why would they want me to be able to use that disc to play said game on a PC?
 
S

sheaaaa

Member
duckroll said:
Yes but I think he does have a point that hate is unlikely to be a motivating factor here. Atlus has a history of wanting to control how people use their software and they have really weird ideas of what their entitlement is as IP holders. This is clearly a boneheaded legal matter which makes no logical sense, but it seems unlikely that someone from Atlus woke up one day and said "I hate PC games! How can I fuck them up more?!" :)
Click to expand...

GhostTrick said:
We live in a world where a multi million dollar company moved its office because a fortune teller told them so.(Square Enix)

We live in a world where a multi million dollar company spent millions on various projects just because they were fans of some developpers or games. (CyGames)

We live in a world where companies are run by humans with feelings and in a world where we saw decisions took by humans driven by these feelings.

Even though I think the Atlus-PC stuff is more about incompetence and being backward, I cant blame someone else thinking that.
Click to expand...

Yeah, my point is that 'Atlus is a company that makes baffling, stupid decisions on PC' (because let's be clear, they totally are, and it's absurd that these games won't be on Steam) doesn't, for me, naturally lead to the conclusion 'Atlus hates PC', and I think that's a strange conclusion to draw.
 
I

ivanthebearable

Member
Something weird seems to be going on with Atlus putting their foot down so hard with the Persona series in general.

Either way this is silly and bound to be a waste of their time.
 
M

MetalliCabombination

Member
Sini said:
Some of their interests seem really odd.
Click to expand...

Phrozenflame500 said:
It's a little childish considering there doesn't appear to be any particularly good business rationale for it. Even if we didn't have a report showing piracy didn't affect sales I doubt a niche PC emulation directly competes with their console releases.
Click to expand...

BernardoOne said:
If by "own interests" you mean "dumb decisions that actively go against the main purpose of a business" yeah, that sentence might make some sense.
Atlus are a bunch of outdated assholes. This is a fact, not an opinion.




But please do explain the business genius of going against streamers and destroying their channels, being the only ones going against an emulator, and being the only ones region locking a fucking PS3 game.
Click to expand...

Who are we to care whether its dumb or not? They can run themselves into the ground for all we have control over.
Let me remind you nome of us are speaking in their interests first when we bring up stupid or smart business moves.
The point is they made it and they own it.
They have 0 reasons to care for ps4, pc, ps3 or streamers and whatever it is they do. They have no obligation to ensure streamers keep their channels healthy.
Is it in their best interests? I would think so. But thats my opinion.
No matter how stupid their reasons are they cannot be petty because they have 100 percent ownership of their works and regardless i or you want from them, its their call.

If i own something i have every right to decide whether or not i let somebody else tinkers with it without being petty.
This isn't some cancer drug theyre keeping to themselves, there is no debatable morality here. Its a commercial product for enthusiasts and if they feel its okay for them to restrict it to a specific then thats that.
 
2

2blackcats

Member
duckroll said:
If you consider that they don't want people who own the game on PS3 and PS4 taking screenshots or videos using the built in OS tools of the respective systems, I don't think we can assume that piracy would SURELY be the only reason. If they don't want me to take screenshots of a game I own on disc, why would they want me to be able to use that disc to play said game on a PC?
Click to expand...

I thought they didn't want spoilers,i.e no captures after a certain point.

Admittedly I've only played 4 so I'm not very informed.

But no captures after a certain point os merely eccentric not malicious. At least to me anyway.

GhostTrick said:
This isn't what stump said. They meant the thread isnt about people playing on emulators own their games or not.
Click to expand...

Sorry, I'm not being purposely stupid, just regular. But I've no idea what you're trying saying.
 
Yui's Empire

Yui's Empire

Member
I mean, it's an unauthorized copy of the game you can play this way. Some companies let these things slide, perhaps hoping in pulling people into the ecosystem even with the piracy hoping those will be paying customers one day, but other companies won't take risks and nuke everything related to piracy and emulation. They own the rights to the game, they can certainly do this. It's true however that this news might actually get bigger than the traffic the site would have got, so it's unclear whether this will have the desired effect.
 
M

MUnited83

For you.
MetalliCabombination said:
Who are we to care whether its dumb or not? They can run themselves into the ground for all we have control over.
Let me remind you nome of us are speaking in their interests first when we bring up stupid or smart business moves.
The point is they made it and they own it.
They have 0 reasons to care for ps4, pc, ps3 or streamers and whatever it is they do. They have no obligation to ensure streamers keep their channels healthy.
Is it in their best interests? I would think so. But thats my opinion.
No matter how stupid their reasons are they cannot be petty because they have 100 percent ownership of their works and regardless i or you want from them, its their call.

If i own something i have every right to decide whether or not i let somebody else tinkers with it without being petty.
This isn't some cancer drug theyre keeping to themselves, there is no debatable morality here. Its a commercial product for enthusiasts and if they feel its okay for them to restrict it to a specific then thats that.
Click to expand...
No, it's not on their best interests, and you have no arguments to back it up.
No, you do not have right to shit if you sell something comercially and someone wants to use a product they bought in a way you don't approve. This shit wouldn't stand legally.
FairyEmpire said:
I mean, it's an unauthorized copy of the game you can play this way. Some companies let these things slide, perhaps hoping in pulling people into the ecosystem even with the piracy hoping those will be paying customers one day, but other companies won't take risks and nuke everything related to piracy and emulation. They own the rights to the game, they can certainly do this. It's true however that this news might actually get bigger than the traffic the site would have got, so it's unclear whether this will have the desired effect.
Click to expand...
According to actual laws and legal precedents, no, they do not have the right to do this.
 
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