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Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Men Tell No Tales|SPOILER THREAD| Salazar’s Revenge

Captain Zyrain

Captain Zyrain

Member
SkywardBeam said:
Watched the movie a few hours ago and really enjoyed it. Much, much better than the last. The story was nothing to write home about (I prefer the epic plot structure of 2 and 3 that spans multiple movies), but the soundtrack was great and Salazar was really killing it. Great performance by Bardem, great visual effects on the ghost pirates and finally a return to real undead villains (unlike those "zombies" in Stranger Tides -.-'). The only aspect that sours me on the film a bit is the ending. Why did they have to kill Salazar and his crew just after they got rid of their curse? Felt unnecessarily dark to me :/ (especially as they were originally the good guys).
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Anti-Pirates are not good guys! Remember Salazar gunning down the Pirates begging for mercy in the water?! For shame! It did seem a little dark to uncurse them and them screw them over.. but such is life (or death, I guess).

It's funny, looking at Rotten Tomato..

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/franchise/pirates_of_the_caribbean

Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Men Tell No Tales (2017) - Critics: 31% Audience: 75%
Pirates of the Caribbean: On Stranger Tides (2011) - Critics: 32% Audience: 54%
Pirates of the Caribbean: At Worlds End (2007) - Critics: 45% Audience: 72%
Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest (2006) Critics: 54% Audience: 72%
Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl (2003) - Critics: 79% Audience: 86%

Obviously the first movie is the best, I don't think there is much contention for that fact. It's all around just an amazingly fun film, which holds up great. Going forward though, it seems like Dead Men Tell No Tales is appeasing audiences just as well as the 2nd and 3rd movies (maybe more-so? but it's a little early to tell). Yet, somehow the critics hate it THE MOST. How is that? I assume franchise fatigue hits the critics harder (and sooner?) than your average movie-goer? From the across the board low ratings that On Stranger Tides got, I don't feel like the Pirates franchise is getting automatic thumbs up from fans. I LOVE the Pirates movies, but that one was a super stinker.

I said it as soon as I got out of the theater, this movie feels like a proper sequel to the trilogy. I really hope they keep this going for a couple more movies with the original cast mixed in with the new. I'd buy that for a dollar.
 
M

mooncakes

Member
How did the bald heading witch obtained the compass? It was in a bar when Jack traded it for a rum before but somehow it ended up in her jail cell.
 
S

Snaku

Banned
Drewton said:
I didn't realize there was only one fresh PotC film. Crazy.
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Let's not forget that when the Empire Strikes Back was originally released the critics hated it, and accused it of being shallow and lacking originality. It was only years later that it got the appreciation and respect it deserved. I firmly believe Dead Man's Chest is on the same path.
 
Captain Zyrain

Captain Zyrain

Member
mooncakes said:
How did the bald heading witch obtained the compass? It was in a bar when Jack traded it for a rum before but somehow it ended up in her jail cell.
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That wasn't her jail cell I don't think.. I thought it was her shadowy witch nest or something.

I assumed she stole it or bartered for it.. or got it through otherwise nefarious means. Likely no one else thought it was anything other than a broken compass, so she could probably get it on the cheap.
 
J

Jedi2016

Member
I thought it was pretty good. I think I enjoyed it a bit more than the previous film, since they didn't seem to be trying as hard to make Jack Sparrow the only character in it.

So they're retconning things now, too... In Dead Man's Chest, it was made clear that Jack got the compass in a barter with Tia Dalma/Calypso, but now they're saying he just inherited it from his previous captain? I guess the retconning will carry on into what we saw in the stinger, that breaking all the curses of the sea somehow brought back You-Know-Who?

And really, that seems like such a cop-out... "Shit, they don't like these movies enough... let's just make the good ones over again!" Although honestly, if they go back to Bloom and Knightly with Depp only as minor support, it might not be half-bad.

Shame about Barbossa, but he was never as good in the subsequent films as he was in the first.
 
J

J_Viper

Member
Razgriz-Specter said:
If you like these I wouldn't say 4 is a legitimately bad movie, its probably more solid than 3 but is just bland as hell which is exactly the opposite of what makes this series work.
Mermaid scene is really great though https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-TsSCoTxYU

As low as I rank it and talk about it I still own the blu-ray.
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Cool, thanks, I'll go for it

If anything, I'm always drawn to the "odd ones out" in most movie franchises. I enjoy the hell out of Fast & Furious for example.

Captain Zyrain said:
Does anyone know if they ever came out with updated Blurays? I got the first 3 whenever they first came out.. I wish they had a 4K release.
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Nah I think it's the same discs. I don't think Disney has released any 4K home video releases yet.
 
R

Razgriz-Specter

Member
ZeoVGM said:
Dead Man's Chest is so good.
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DMC is like a top 3 theater experience for me.
Definitely saw it 3 times in the theater and im pretty sure even a 4th. Bought the DVD day 1 and then the Bluray the day that released.

Just one of my favorite movies.

Heck I still have the figure of Jack's introduction(included a coffin and skeleton leg paddle) somewhere around here 11 years later.
 
L

Linkura

Member
Captain Zyrain said:
Anti-Pirates are not good guys! Remember Salazar gunning down the Pirates begging for mercy in the water?! For shame! It did seem a little dark to uncurse them and them screw them over.. but such is life (or death, I guess).

It's funny, looking at Rotten Tomato..

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/franchise/pirates_of_the_caribbean

Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Men Tell No Tales (2017) - Critics: 31% Audience: 75%
Pirates of the Caribbean: On Stranger Tides (2011) - Critics: 32% Audience: 54%
Pirates of the Caribbean: At Worlds End (2007) - Critics: 45% Audience: 72%
Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest (2006) Critics: 54% Audience: 72%
Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl (2003) - Critics: 79% Audience: 86%

Obviously the first movie is the best, I don't think there is much contention for that fact. It's all around just an amazingly fun film, which holds up great. Going forward though, it seems like Dead Men Tell No Tales is appeasing audiences just as well as the 2nd and 3rd movies (maybe more-so? but it's a little early to tell). Yet, somehow the critics hate it THE MOST. How is that? I assume franchise fatigue hits the critics harder (and sooner?) than your average movie-goer? From the across the board low ratings that On Stranger Tides got, I don't feel like the Pirates franchise is getting automatic thumbs up from fans. I LOVE the Pirates movies, but that one was a super stinker.

I said it as soon as I got out of the theater, this movie feels like a proper sequel to the trilogy. I really hope they keep this going for a couple more movies with the original cast mixed in with the new. I'd buy that for a dollar.
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I originally read this list in the opposite order and was like "How the FUCK did the first movie have only 31% with critics?"
 
R

robotrock

Banned
Snaku said:
Let's not forget that when the Empire Strikes Back was originally released the critics hated it, and accused it of being shallow and lacking originality. It was only years later that it got the appreciation and respect it deserved. I firmly believe Dead Man's Chest is on the same path.
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not doubting you, but any sources or quotes? sounds really interesting.
 
B

brandonh83

Banned
I can honestly say I'm baffled as to how some can consider Dead Man's Chest or even the first one to be so great and not At World's End. I still maintain the only real "sin" that movie commits is that it's too long and there's some story bloat, but I feel I can attribute that to Dead Man's Chest as well. I just don't see this huge gulf in quality between them. Even the first one, which I love, I don't find it to be as compelling story wise as the second and third. The first one works as a standalone, and sure, it's something of a tidy package, but I didn't have a problem with DMC and AWE being what is essentially a massive two-parter and I found them both to be really fun, very well shot, acted and scored films.

I don't understand it personally, but it is what it is. Even when people try to explain it, I still don't get it. "Oh the third movie is bloated and too long!" True, but does that make it some terrible movie? I see those as minor issues that don't really hurt them overall. Now, On Stranger Tides, I didn't think it had the emotional pull that the predecessors did, and I wasn't into what was going on. I suppose if you're not into the story/characters I can see why maybe you don't care for the others either, but I still think the quality difference between the four of them excluding OST isn't really that much.
 
R

Razgriz-Specter

Member
brandonh83 said:
I can honestly say I'm baffled as to how some can consider Dead Man's Chest or even the first one to be so great and not At World's End. I still maintain the only real "sin" that movie commits is that it's too long and there's some story bloat, but I feel I can attribute that to Dead Man's Chest as well. I just don't see this huge gulf in quality between them. Even the first one, which I love, I don't find it to be as compelling story wise as the second and third. The first one works as a standalone, and sure, it's something of a tidy package, but I didn't have a problem with DMC and AWE being what is essentially a massive two-parter and I found them both to be really fun, very well shot, acted and scored films.

I don't understand it personally, but it is what it is. Even when people try to explain it, I still don't get it. "Oh the third movie is bloated and too long!" True, but does that make it some terrible movie? I see those as minor issues that don't really hurt them overall. Now, On Stranger Tides, I didn't think it had the emotional pull that the predecessors did, and I wasn't into what was going on. I suppose if you're not into the story/characters I can see why maybe you don't care for the others either, but I still think the quality difference between the four of them excluding OST isn't really that much.
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I don't consider AWE bad just a bit of a mess which puts it lower.
It does great stuff like the final battle but then has stuff I hate like the multiple Jacks scenes.
Black Pearl is way more plain but is more solid.

DMC while it does have issues it has Davy Jones constantly and the set pieces are paced extremely well imo
and each is especially memorable
Jack's intro, Cannibal Island, Kraken attack, wheel fight, Kraken attacking the Pearl, Barbossa Stinger.
 
B

brandonh83

Banned
Razgriz-Specter said:
It does great stuff like the final battle but then has stuff I hate like the multiple Jacks scenes.
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See, I really loved that stuff in Jones' locker, I thought it was visually fantastic and very creative. But at least here's a specific example of something you don't like, which I can at least respect.

I see them as just huge, over the top oceanic adventures-- that again could've used some trimming, but I mostly like what's there.

In terms of the end of a trilogy I thought it was one of the better third movies out there. It was big and did a good job with its character arcs.
 
R

Razgriz-Specter

Member
brandonh83 said:
See, I really loved that stuff in Jones' locker, I thought it was visually fantastic and very creative. But at least here's a specific example of something you don't like, which I can at least respect.

I see them as just huge, over the top oceanic adventures-- that again could've used some trimming, but I mostly like what's there.

In terms of the end of a trilogy I thought it was one of the better third movies out there. It was big and did a good job with its character arcs.
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I feel ya,
Like I say, I even legitimately like Stranger Tides it just has so little special about it comparatively is why I make it sound like I hate.
 
B

brandonh83

Banned
Razgriz-Specter said:
Like I say, I even legitimately like Stranger Tides it just has so little special about it comparatively is why I make it sound like I hate.
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If I were to rewatch OST, I'd probably at least enjoy it. I'd only seen it opening day and that was... 6 years ago I think. I remember it being competent and having some cool stuff, and I especially liked the soundtrack. While it's my least favorite, it's at least a C, C- movie. It just made Jack front and center and I don't think he should be. To me he's more like an absolutely amazing supporting character that shouldn't be the main character-- think Ian Malcolm in Jurassic Park. An amazing supporting character that stirs up fantastic interaction with the main characters.

But, I would say that the first three and this new one, it's more like... he's part of the "protagonist ensemble" where you have what you could consider multiple protagonists. I consider Will, Jack and Elizabeth the three main protagonists of the first trilogy, whereas Jack was the main protagonist in Stranger Tides, but back to being more of a supporting protagonist in the new one. I liked his interaction with the others in the first three and now the fifth one, but in the fourth he was just surrounded by other characters that were just okay.

I liked Carina, Henry and Barbossa a lot in this one though, and felt that Jack was back to being that parallel protagonist, which I feel is right compared to how the fourth was written.

edit: to be fair I should clarify that while I liked Carina, I mostly liked Henry just because of his lineage and his personal stakes in the trident because the end of the Will and Liz arc in World's End had me so depressed lol, and I was smiling like an idiot when the end of this movie broke that curse and he was able to set Will free from the Dutchman
 
S

shintoki

sparkle this bitch
To mean, DMC is one of the most creative films on screens. It combines a sort of Jackie Chan like set up, with the swashbuckling elements. The big three way fight I haven't seen in years, but still remember it well. Similar to the finale in AWE. And he ended up topping all of them with Lone Ranger. I feel like Gore is just a man that understands scale and how to impress.

Timu said:
Well, we can all agree that the Pirates sequels are better than the Transformers sequels at least!
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I hated the second Transformers, but Transformers 3 impressed me a lot.

Bay is another I can not hate at all, when he does things like this
 
B

brandonh83

Banned
Timu said:
Well, we can all agree that the Pirates sequels are better than the Transformers sequels at least!
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You want to talk about a series of films I find to be legitimate dog shit, even including the first one that most people seemed to have liked? Because that's it.

I liked the second half of Dark of the Moon because it's straight up action and Bay doing his fantastic technical and setpiece work without too much dialogue.

Other than that, straight to the trash bin. I may defend some blockbusters, but there's no room for Transformers on my train.
 
F

Fancy Clown

Member
I thought this was dreadful. Jacob Sparrow is only in this as a box office draw, he offers absolutely nothing in terms of character or theme, and mostly just staggers around as an embarrassing characature of himself.

Henry and Carina are like Body Snatcher versions of Orlando Bloom and Kiera Knightly. The dude especially is just 100% vacant.

The soundtrack is often used to cloying and maudlin affect over the trite emotional plays.

Even the setpieces feel turgid and dull. There's nothing as kinetic, creative, well shot, and imbued with charm like Verbinski's movies. The whole movie feels like a robotic facsimile, where it checks off all the wacky boxes of a Pirates movie and assembles them together in the most roughshod manner.
 
T

Trigonometrize.

Member
Pirates 5 was so goooood! I want to see it again in theaters, which is rare for me outside of Star Wars and La La Land.

Salazar's crew was my favorite bad guy crew in the series visually. Salazar himself was up there with Davy Jones.

In fact, the whole movie looked quite pretty. I remember the scene where it went back and forth between Salazar telling his story to Barbossa. The orange sunset in the back clashing with the foggy white of the story world. And then we get to the star island... I want to go there.

I didn't like, like many others, how Jack has gone from an unpredictable yet clever pirate into just a guy that bumbles through situations. It worked in the beginning because he was kind of washed up, but the end scene he's just getting tossed around by Salazar and Barbossa saved his ass (I think).
 
B

brandonh83

Banned
Fancy Clown said:
I thought this was dreadful. Jacob Sparrow is only in this as a box office draw, he offers absolutely nothing in terms of character or theme, and mostly just staggers around as an embarrassing characature of himself.

Henry and Carina are like Body Snatcher versions of Orlando Bloom and Kiera Knightly. The dude especially is just 100% vacant.
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I think for me, I don't find Will or Elizabeth to be particularly intriguing characters per se. I just thought that the initial films did a really good job with their emotional connection and I wanted a happily ever after ending for them. So there's that. As characters they're really nothing special, Will more so than Elizabeth, but I thought the actors made them easy to like or relate to. I felt the same way about Henry and Carina. On the surface level there's nothing super interesting or complex about them, but the actors did good enough and their roles in the story were good enough for me. I liked Henry's emotional pull with his parents and I ended up being surprisingly moved by Carina's relationship with Barbossa and that whole thing.

Regarding Jack, yeah, I can see that. I disagree with him being a "caricature" of himself though. Like I've mentioned elsewhere in the thread, I don't see it that much more differently than other characters that change throughout a series. I get why people loved Jack in the original and even a few of the sequels, but being on the fifth movie and Will and Elizabeth's kid being as old as he is, I mean there's been a pretty decent time gap and I can see Jack as this aging don't give a fuck drunk anymore that has simply seen some shit. He's still doing his pirate thing but I'd imagine after time even he would change a bit, so I saw that difference in character as simply an element of time.

I find that these movies will remain polarizing because it seems obvious to me that the main draw for most people is the Jack Sparrow from the first few. People seem to bank their opinions entirely on how he's handled. I'm personally not among that group as I've found plenty of things to like and latch onto in these movies beyond Jack. Even aside from Jack I think they're really fun sea adventures, and how often do we get those? You throw in some sweet myths like the Trident of Poseidon, some Krakens, a Davy Jones and a final setpiece taking place between a split ocean and you have my attention :p
 
F

Fancy Clown

Member
There is nothing to Jack in this movie besides being a silly, mostly obnoxious, drunk. What does he actually add to the movie thematically to warrant such screen time? His inclusion is solely justified as the motivation for Salazar's revenge scheme. As such the main conflict for the movie is hinged on something with absolutely no emotional crux. There were also too many maguffins what with the trident, compass, and star map, which all bogged down and convoluted Henry and Carina's storyline and obfuscated what little emotion there is to them behind a bunch of ill defined plot devices.

Will and Elizabeth certainly weren't amazing characters, but they at least had some charisma and more effort put into their characterization and emotional states.
 
B

brandonh83

Banned
Fancy Clown said:
There is nothing to Jack in this movie besides being a silly, mostly obnoxious, drunk. What does he actually add to the movie thematically to warrant such screen time? His inclusion is solely justified as the motivation for Salazar's revenge scheme. As such the main conflict for the movie is hinged on something with absolutely no emotional crux. There were also too many maguffins what with the trident, compass, and star map, which all bogged down and convoluted Henry and Carina's storyline and obfuscated what little emotion there is to them behind a bunch of ill defined plot devices.
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Maybe it just comes down to that I really liked the conflict between him and Salazar. Salazar was the main villain and the connection to Jack was there. I do see Jack as this somewhat lucky pirate that manages through situations, boozed off his ass, making dumb decisions but then rectifying them in some way. I didn't really think he was any different here. There were less Jack shenanigans as it was mostly focused on Carina and Henry (and Barbossa).

If Jack were treated solely as the main character as he was in the last movie, I'd have had the same exact problems as I did with the last movie, but with this one I was more focused on other elements parallel to Jack and Salazar's conflict.
 
T

Trigonometrize.

Member
Fancy Clown said:
There is nothing to Jack in this movie besides being a silly, mostly obnoxious, drunk. What does he actually add to the movie thematically to warrant such screen time? His inclusion is solely justified as the motivation for Salazar's revenge scheme. As such the main conflict for the movie is hinged on something with absolutely no emotional crux. There were also too many maguffins what with the trident, compass, and star map, which all bogged down and convoluted Henry and Carina's storyline and obfuscated what little emotion there is to them behind a bunch of ill defined plot devices.

Will and Elizabeth certainly weren't amazing characters, but they at least had some charisma and more effort put into their characterization and emotional states.
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There's more to the point of characters than their thematic relevance. I just want to see funny pirates fight for the most part. The moments that Pirates has gone "deeper" are some of the more meh aspects of the story. The most I need is emotion when someone betrays someone else or alternatively unexpectedly helps them. Jack isn't perfect in these newer movies, but I still like him. He adds more the the film than probably 85% of the leads I normally see.

Also, I didn't think the plot was that convoluted to be honest. Maybe it's just because I just watched At World's End which at one point had so many deals and developments in a short amount of time you basically have to pause and rewind, but it seemed simple to me.

The compass being given up = Salazar is free did feel contrived.
 
B

brandonh83

Banned
Trigonometrize. said:
There's more to the point of characters than their thematic relevance. I just want to see funny pirates fight for the most part.
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This is me too, I've always seen Jack as a character that's important but is also supporting what others characters are trying to do, whether directly or indirectly. I would have liked it if Jack were more into what Henry was trying to do, freeing Will, but then there's his own problems like Salazar. Though Jack is one of those characters that may feel something deep down but would never show it. Like at the end when he sees Will and Liz being reunited and he says something to the effect of "well there's a disgusting sight" or something. Deep down he was probably happy that Will is back and okay, but he'd never express that lol

Would've felt wrong/out of character for Jack and Will to have this "reuniting" scene, but I would have liked a scene with them actually together with Jack quipping to him about something. But in the long run I was more happy about Will being free. The most humanity you get out of Jack is his reaction to Jones stabbing Will during the final battle of 3, but that really said a lot about how he feels toward Will.
 
R

Razgriz-Specter

Member
Timu said:
Well, we can all agree that the Pirates sequels are better than the Transformers sequels at least!
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Honestly even if Pirates hit Transformers level i'd still enjoy it far more.
the setting, style, world, type of action, etc it just has a really unique niche that has zero competition.
 
B

brandonh83

Banned
Razgriz-Specter said:
Honestly even if Pirates hit Transformers level i'd still enjoy it far more.
the setting, style, world, type of action, etc it just has a really unique niche that has zero competition.
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Agreed. Maybe that's why I'm less critical toward them. I simply love this kind of stuff. The kraken shit in the second movie had me like, completely losing it.

These are really the only set of what I personally find to be quality films that tackle pirates, big adventure and mythology in one go.
 
R

Razgriz-Specter

Member
brandonh83 said:
Agreed. Maybe that's why I'm less critical toward them. I simply love this kind of stuff. The kraken shit in the second movie had me like, completely losing it.

These are really the only set of what I personally find to be quality films that tackle pirates, big adventure and mythology in one go.
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Exactly.
 
B

brandonh83

Banned
Razgriz-Specter said:
Exactly.
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Still one of my most excited moments in the theater was in Dead Man's Chest as the crew is preparing for the Kraken attack, it's showing Will and all the crew mates prepping for the confrontation that just feels completely out of their league. It had real tension and I mean fucking sea monsters are just the bomb diggity.

How people complain about movies not taking risks, I thought 2 and 3 took a lot, actually. Jack was so beloved, and the second movie had him being eaten alive by the kraken. And Will was stabbed and his heart removed at the end of 3. In a Disney movie.

But it was such an epic blaze of glory moment with a goddamned boss track of music.

The biggest tragedy was Norrington though. If they do Pirates 6 and it's the last-last one with things like Davy Jones coming back as we saw in the post credits, and maybe even Norrington with the same actor back, that would be so awesome.
 
R

Razgriz-Specter

Member
Other things can easily nail the pirate theme but without the supernatural and mythological elements it might as well be something else entirely.

brandonh83 said:
Still one of my most excited moments in the theater was in Dead Man's Chest as the crew is preparing for the Kraken attack, it's showing Will and all the crew mates prepping for the confrontation that just feels completely out of their league. It had real tension and I mean fucking sea monsters are just the bomb diggity.

How people complain about movies not taking risks, I thought 2 and 3 took a lot, actually. Jack was so beloved, and the second movie had him being eaten alive by the kraken. And Will was stabbed and his heart removed at the end of 3. In a Disney movie.

But it was such an epic blaze of glory moment with a goddamned boss track of music.

The biggest tragedy was Norrington though. If they do Pirates 6 and it's the last-last one with things like Davy Jones coming back as we saw in the post credits, and maybe even Norrington with the same actor back, that would be so awesome.
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Man people lost their shit when Jack was eaten.
 
Laughing Banana

Laughing Banana

Weeping Pickle
It seems like in the Pirates universe it is kinda easy to set up a curse.

You just have to be really angry when you die. There, now you are an immortal with a curse, lol.
 
B

brandonh83

Banned
Razgriz-Specter said:
Man people lost their shit when Jack was eaten.
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Yeah, as did I. And that's why, when I saw it, I had just seen a sequel that was actually damn good and dark like Empire Strikes Back. Not saying that it's as good as that obviously, but it made me feel that way regardless. You take, again, especially in a Disney movie an iconic and beloved character and you do that at the end of the next movie, I mean that takes some balls. Gore and the writers didn't give a fuck what teen girls would think about their Jack Sparrow being swallowed alive by a kraken. It was like the biggest "deal with it" moment in a movie of this type from that studio.

Of course the third movie began with them trying to free him from the locker and he was okay, but still, ending on that cliffhanger was nuts. And then the next movie was incredibly bittersweet with Will being killed, becoming a prisoner of the Dutchman, and only being able to surface for a moment once every decade. That made me legitimately sad, but I liked it. So fast forward to Stranger Tides, which was about them trying to find the Fountain of Youth, and I'm like-- yay! They're gonna find it and use it to bring Will back! But... no.

Then fast forward to this movie, which opens with Will's son so determined to help his dad that he sinks himself with chains to find him and that whole encounter sets him on his journey to figure out how to free him. I found that very touching but more than that, satisfying after waiting literally ten years (AWE came out a decade ago... whoa) to get some happier resolution to that, and I pretty much saw this entire movie as finally getting that payoff I'd been wanting since 2007.

Which is probably why I'm like oh fuck Jack, it's time to Free Willy.

Trigonometrize. said:
I'm loving this Pirates circle jerk. Such a great series. Even the low-lights I'd rather watch again than most action movies.
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Sure, around these parts they call me by my tag (which I dig, it exposes the idiots who just want to drive-by rather than engage) but I've always been at a loss over some of the hate I've seen for 2 and 3.
 
R

Razgriz-Specter

Member
shintoki said:
Similar to the finale in AWE. And he ended up topping all of them with Lone Ranger. I feel like Gore is just a man that understands scale and how to impress.
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See Lone Ranger had a bit of a mess going on but characters were pretty good and it is the only thing out there with action of the POTC variety.
I absolutely give that movie a pass for that ending(music choice was pure perfection).
It almost feels like a Pirates movie, I wish they kept the supernatural elements it was originally supposed to have.
 
F

Fancy Clown

Member
Trigonometrize. said:
There's more to the point of characters than their thematic relevance. I just want to see funny pirates fight for the most part. The moments that Pirates has gone "deeper" are some of the more meh aspects of the story. The most I need is emotion when someone betrays someone else or alternatively unexpectedly helps them. Jack isn't perfect in these newer movies, but I still like him. He adds more the the film than probably 85% of the leads I normally see.

Also, I didn't think the plot was that convoluted to be honest. Maybe it's just because I just watched At World's End which at one point had so many deals and developments in a short amount of time you basically have to pause and rewind, but it seemed simple to me.

The compass being given up = Salazar is free did feel contrived.
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Having a character that takes up arguably most of the screen time not having anything to do with the theme or emotional arc of the movie isn't "going deeper"...that's like screenwriting 101.

I just thought there was at least 1 too many magic plot moving items that people were after involved in this one, not that individually each one was complicated.
 
S

StayDead

Member
Went and saw this last night. I wasn't expecting much and it exceeded my expectations.

Salazar was awesome and I thought Jack was great throughout. Yeah the story in some parts was tacked on (like the girl being Barbarossa's daughter), but other than that I really enjoyed it.

The bit with the bank was standout for me, especially when Jack bursts in to the observatory. I think I must've seen a different film to the critics, that was well worth watching.
 
S

Spehornoob

Member
Thought this movie was aggressively mediocre.

How do you screw up Jack Sparrow's character so bad after four movies? I think they were trying to go for a "washed up Jack who regains his confidence and ability" kind of story, but he never actually regained his confidence or ability. He was just a drunk, bumbling idiot the whole movie without any of the cunning or intelligence we've seen in the past.

Everything else was just okay. The new characters were alright. Barbossa was the best part of the movie, just like the last one. Did anyone else think there was a distinct lack of actual swashbuckling in this one? Like, there really wasn't much in the way of swordfights or the like.

I do gotta say that I loved the look of the villains. The hair in particular was really cool.
 
T

thecouncil

Banned
So when all curses were broken, shouldn't people like Salazar and Will have just died?

Their curses weren't the reasons they died, they were the reason they had life after death.

Will has no freakin' heart, for example. It's in a box with Elizabeth.

And Salazar flat out drowned.
 
F

Familienoberhauptvogel

Banned
thecouncil said:
So when all curses were broken, shouldn't people like Salazar and Will have just died?

Their curses weren't the reasons they died, they were the reason they had life after death.

Will has no freakin' heart, for example. It's in a box with Elizabeth.

And Salazar flat out drowned.
Click to expand...

Don't overthink things, the movie never tries to make sense but yeah that also crossed my mind.
It even clashes with Curse of the Black Pearl where jack shoots Barbossa as an Undead who then dies when the curse is broken.
 
Pagusas

Pagusas

Elden Member
thecouncil said:
So when all curses were broken, shouldn't people like Salazar and Will have just died?

Their curses weren't the reasons they died, they were the reason they had life after death.

Will has no freakin' heart, for example. It's in a box with Elizabeth.

And Salazar flat out drowned.
Click to expand...

Pretty sure the covered that by showing Salazars crew re-materialize. Obvious its breaking the cure AND making you whole.
 
LordKasual

LordKasual

Banned
Not even halfway into the movie and I could tell that either the writers were different, or the material has just been exhausted

The older characters felt hollow. The chick was interesting, the guy interesting enough?

The film just didn't have the flair of the older ones though, specifically the first 2.

I enjoyed it, just wouldn't care to see it again. The first 2 were amazing to me
 
J

J-Rod

Member
I didn't think the new characters were near as charming as bloom and knightly. I also hate they killed off barbossa. I just knew they were going to especially since guardians 2 was the last movie I watched.
 
R

Razgriz-Specter

Member
strafer said:
so this movie apparently had a 230 million dollar budget, does it show?
Click to expand...

On Stranger Tides was more expensive but looks straight to video compared to this.
This at least used the money to give what the series in known for.
Loads of action, set pieces, ship action, CG, etc unlike OST.

The more I think about it the more I like Salazar, no Davy Jones but he is definitely distinct from him and Barbossa.
 
Captain Zyrain

Captain Zyrain

Member
I've been listing to the soundtrack for DMTNT and I really like it. I know part of that is just due to me having an unusually large hard-on for the original trilogy themes, but I feel like the did a really nice job mixing in the old and new themes, and making it all sound "Pirate-y".

"No Woman Has Ever Handled My Herschel" feels right at home with nice use of the main theme.. while still sounding fresh and new and exciting.

"The Dying Gull" and "She Needs the Sea" are both rather short, but sweet songs that instantly take me back to the seafaring ways of the original movies. The former being a great call back to "Hoist the Colours", and it incorporates one of my favorite jokes in the movie.. with the ship getting stuck while sliding into the water. The latter reprises one of my favorite themes from the first movie.. and accompanies one of my favorite scenes from the new movie.. seeing the Black Pearl again.

"El Matador del Mar" is the longest track on the album, and has some of the new themes interwoven with the classics, and it works really well. It all feels familiar but still new. This is something I think the OST OST.. err On Stranger Tides Original Sound Track failed at. While I appreciated the Spanish-theme twist, the themes (and the whole movie I guess) felt so disconnected from the rest it was hard to latch onto it.

"My Name is Barbossa" is a great compilation of the AWE tracks, and serves as a great bookend to that trilogy.

Ultimately, with the movie and the music, if you wanted more of movies 1-3, I feel that you're pretty much getting it with DMTNT.
 
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