Yaphett Kotto
Member
do you know what sarcasm is
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Paris mayor demands black feminist festival that 'prohibits' white people be banned
- Thread starter Shiggy
- Start date
do you know what sarcasm is
Well I said more, not only. You don't have to be black to be shafted by the powers that be in our great country. America is far worse in that regard, only saying that because I'm sure 90% of the posters in here are American.
You're actually shitposting
Snowman Prophet of Doom
Member
I'd think that, legally, it would be difficult to argue for space at a public festival being set aside for a single race and gender, if French law is anything like the US.
I would say POC, especially immigrants are more likely to be poor and in poor areas. Which means the segregation in this country gets worse. There are so many reports from last year about how bad it is getting in the UK. Were whole towns etc are now POC due to it.
BrutishMrFish
Member
So let minorities suffer until that perfect world exists? I have yet to see a single person with your mindset who even lifts a finger to support people in some other way. What exactly are you doing to help?
And throwing racists in jail would have the effect of making it so nobody else would have to listen to them, so by your definition of what constitutes a safe space, you're actually supporting two - one for the racists, and one for minorities.
Who is the "we" in this paragraph? Does it include you? I really don't think it does.
As for those examples, they're not the same as minorities wanting to have a frank conversation where they don't have to worry about moderating themselves.
Your other comparison was juvenile, but this false equivalency is maddening. You're completely twisting the idea of what a safe space is and being disingenuous as hell.
uncelestial
Member
This is a sign for a safe space:
This is not a sign for a safe space:
This is not a sign for a safe space:
uhm okThis is a sign for a safe space:
This is not a sign for a safe space:
uncelestial
Member
Do you not understand the difference between excluding behavior and excluding people or...?
Snowman Prophet of Doom
Member
This is a sign for a safe space:
This is not a sign for a safe space:
Oh, shit, I forgot about that asshole.
Really hope you don't disappear now.
no i get it and i agree with you 100% i'm just questioning it's relevancy here because the intention doesn't seem to antagonise people and incredibly misguided and handled poorly but thats me giving them the benefit of doubt
They both areThis is a sign for a safe space:
This is not a sign for a safe space:
White people and anti-SJWs in this thread had a slam dunk on condemning this at least based on French law and y'all still managed to fuck it up with appeals to non-existent equity, ignorance of your own socioeconomic realities, and by calling black people weak for not wanting to be race ambassadors 24/7.
Good job.
Edit: Got an ad for Get Out at the bottom of the page. Even Google knows.
Good job.
Edit: Got an ad for Get Out at the bottom of the page. Even Google knows.
I peeped that too
uncelestial
Member
I see it that way too, but even unintentionally, this is largely how it's taken when you embrace exclusion. And I do want to stand up for safe spaces, because every time I walk into a business in SF that says "this is a safe space, no homophobia, racism, (etc)" I feel great about it. The term should not be synonymous with exclusion as I see it becoming here.
Like Slayven said, just call it a black feminist event and advertise it in the right, targeted way, the demographics work themselves out. And they could absolutely post "rules of engagement" like the safe space signs I see to make sure that the right voices are heard and people are treated well.
psychowave
Member
This is a sign for a safe space:
This is not a sign for a safe space:
And who are you to decide that?
Fair enough was just optimistic, agree with slayven and you completely on this it would have been simpler if they had just done that this is illegal and just either misguided and sends the wrong message
And_Gignac
Member
I think the rationale behind this is quite obvious and not at all trying to be racist or segregationist: that this type of events are necessary until the balance of power between identities is equal.
I'd say that's more social segregation, racist old white people don't want to live next to brown people with beards.
We obviously have a big racism problem in the UK but almost all of it seems to be directed at muslims. I only know one black person (my city is very white compared to london) who is a chef and he has had no experiences like that either, or so he tells me.
Those god damn white people.
Maybe 5 pages of people labeling black feminists as malicious and hysterical people who want to bring back segregation against whites is enough evidence that the people who want on some occasions to get away from all the nonsense maybe have a little bit of a point.
I don't know though, maybe I'm part of the problem but safe spaces haven't ever been a problem for me. Sometimes you just want to discuss your problems with people who can empathize without hearing the dreaded 'well, actually...' every 5 seconds. That may just be my anti-white evil racist bias speaking though.
Well if your black friend says so, then it must mean that people like me must have been hallucinating all those racist experiences we had.
I don't know though, maybe I'm part of the problem but safe spaces haven't ever been a problem for me. Sometimes you just want to discuss your problems with people who can empathize without hearing the dreaded 'well, actually...' every 5 seconds. That may just be my anti-white evil racist bias speaking though.
Well if your black friend says so, then it must mean that people like me must have been hallucinating all those racist experiences we had.
One whole black person? Well then that's all the proof you need.
Holy anecdotal evidence Batman!
MistakenMobius
Member
Well Polish are very white yet are clearly target by post brexit racism.
ClosingADoor
Member
There is indeed nothing wrong with hosting an event for black feminists. I hope nobody thinks so. The problem is that they had an event and then divided it up into spaces based on race and gender. That's just not a very good idea.
Surely you see how a sign with "male tears" will be perceived differently from a normal sign that lays out certain ground rules for discussion in a safe space.
Alx
Member
How would the skin colours in the audience make a difference in the need of moderating oneself ?
Kid Kamikaze10
Member
Agreed and a half.
Snowman Prophet of Doom
Member
They're both "safe spaces", but when your sign actively advertises a base level of hostility to the group you're excluding ("male tears"), it sort of torpedoes the "we just want a place where we all understand each other without having to debunk bullshit" aspect of the narrstive, at least in the case of that particular safe space.
Why do people do this so often on gaf? Read the whole conversation trail if you want to comment on my post. I was talking about class in the UK and segregation.
"then it must mean that people like me must have been hallucinating all those racist experiences we had."
Like where the hell did this come from?
True, but muslims get the worst of it by far.
LostMyNarbles
Member
Nobody's saying you can't have these kind of talks amongst people of your own race/religion/beliefs...you just can't do it in a public setting where you are openly admitting to discriminating against others. If they want to have this kind of a conversation than they could have booked a private event or held a meeting together. It just sounds awful reading the wording about how you're going to zone off areas by color.
Unless I am mistaken feminism is about further the rights of women and pushing back against discrimination. To have a public event where you discrimate against any other woman who isn't black just seems narrow minded.
church
Yes they are. People are literally likening this to apartheid.
I'm actually very surprised that the overall tone of this thread is taking the side of the mayor, while the overall tone of the women's-only Wonder Woman screening thread was taking the side of the theater.
Maybe it's just a matter of different posters participating in the two threads, but for those who are for the women's-only WW screening, but against the black women-only spaces for the festival, can you articulate what the underlying philosophical difference is between the two?
It could very well be that I'm overlooking something that makes the comparison between these events moot (or again, it could just be different posters participating in different threads, because GAF isn't a hivemind), but it seems like both events are operating on the same principal of wanting to celebrate a specific group of people (women in the WW case, black feminists in this case) while specifically prohibiting people who don't belong to said group from participating.
Maybe it's just a matter of different posters participating in the two threads, but for those who are for the women's-only WW screening, but against the black women-only spaces for the festival, can you articulate what the underlying philosophical difference is between the two?
It could very well be that I'm overlooking something that makes the comparison between these events moot (or again, it could just be different posters participating in different threads, because GAF isn't a hivemind), but it seems like both events are operating on the same principal of wanting to celebrate a specific group of people (women in the WW case, black feminists in this case) while specifically prohibiting people who don't belong to said group from participating.
I'll tell you what, I don't want any of the whiners in here going into threads complaining about PC culture and how everyone is too easily offended these days if the sight of a black feminist festival not allowing white people in is enough for you to invoke post-slavery US segregation and South African apartheid. How disrespectful.
Yeah, male tears is pretty disrespectful. But that's an extreme example and you can't really extrapolate it to general safe space discussion. Black people can say anything and it will be taken as hostile. The sight of a black feminist festival in itself is enough to set people off. So I don't think that's very fair. What are we supposed to do, run our wording with white people every time we want to meet up?
Yeah, male tears is pretty disrespectful. But that's an extreme example and you can't really extrapolate it to general safe space discussion. Black people can say anything and it will be taken as hostile. The sight of a black feminist festival in itself is enough to set people off. So I don't think that's very fair. What are we supposed to do, run our wording with white people every time we want to meet up?
Maybe because Austin, Texas isn't Paris, France ?
One person said that.
cyberheater
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Inviting black feminist = okay.
Expressly exclude white people = racist and segregationist as fuck.
I hope it's banned.
uncelestial
Member
Private theater vs public space, and also the political usefulness of exclusion vs inclusion is more relevant here.
CrunchyFrog
Member
Like someone else said those restricted spaces are counterproductive. If you want change you need people who don't experience the same problems as you to hear those problems. Someone else also brought up a great point about racism and discrimination affecting people second-hand via children/spouses/loved ones, with those having at least more of a relevant perspective than the rest of the population. I have no issue with them only inviting certain people to speak, but if your goal is to end discrimination and change the rest of the community then you need to actually let that community hear you.
Okay? You still used the one black person you know as anecdotal evidence.
"The one black person I know said it so it must be true."
Yaphett Kotto
Member
And plenty more said or agreed how this festival is racist, discriminatory, and/or offensive.
ClosingADoor
Member
One is just about gender, with a commonly accepted practice of ladies nights. The other is also about race. That is a bit of a difference already. Plus you have the added factor of women of other minorities here also being excluded.
People being offended at a festival targeted towards black feminists are idiots, let me make that clear. But for those things you want to just sent out invites to people and have them come with a ticket, instead of setting up different rooms for different races. It's actually dividing the festival up based on race and gender that is the issue here I think.
My question wasn't about the geographical location of the two events, but the underlying philosophy
The private vs public space makes a little more sense, though the theater is still a public business, and thus theoretically open to all who want to come.
But I know it's legal for the movie theater to have their screening, while it sounds like it may be illegal for this festival to enforce the separation? That could be a key difference as well, I suppose.
Funyarinpa
Member
I am not equating to apartheid or claiming it is anywhere close in magnitude to what minorities experience.
This is still racism.
It does NOT hold a candle to what minorities themselves go through.
That does not make this event immune to being racist.
paragonpro
Banned
No hes right, a safe space is somewhere for open discussion and non prejudice, where people can be themselves (ideally non racist/homophobic) without fear of slander from others, telling someone who may have the same belifes that they arent welcome into the discussion because of their sexuality, gender, or color goes against that idea entirely, even if those aspects that are straight, white, or a man. I have plenty of friends who are lgbtq and ive supported them from minute one, if i was suddenly told that they didnt want to hang out with me anymore because i was a hetero white guy i would feel really shitty, shitty for things i have no controll over, and isnt that what we are trying to get away with in this social equality movement we are in the midst of? Not making people feel shitty for factors of their person that they have no controll over?
There is a difference one is a private theatre and there are other showings and is only slightly inconvenient. The other is a public place that people feel is counterproductive.
I was adding on to what SirRattleBalls was saying, because he encountered no segregation as a black man in the UK, of course I'm sure there are some that have, but Beef was implying he was talking shite. Was just giving another example of someone who had not encountered it either.
I mean it is racist. Whether you care or not is up to you.
You're not worth my time.
Gotdatmoney
Member
A lotta people out here thinking everything gotta be bout explaining shit to people and being God's messengers on earth. This is the type of thought process people need to abandon. Not everything is suppose to be an appeal for acceptance.
cyberheater
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Yeah. I agree with this.
Which it is? Typically not a bad thing for people to call out racist behavior as racist.