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Windows Phone 8.1 |OT| Update 1

S

Sordid

Member
I always said the lack of apps etc didn't matter but since getting an Android phone going back to my 950 XL is painful. Wish there was a way to put Android on it, it's still a good phone apart from that 😕
 
D

derFeef

Member
So the 630 of my GF is dying and she's rather angry about it - but she does not want another OS. She is a light phone user so apps do not matter that much. I am thinking of getting her a used Lumia, what's the recommended entry point for W10 Lumia? There are some cheap 830s around.

Sordid said:
I always said the lack of apps etc didn't matter but since getting an Android phone going back to my 950 XL is painful. Wish there was a way to put Android on it, it's still a good phone apart from that 😕
Click to expand...

For me it's the opposit. Phone (950) is eh... OS is still more attractive to me.
 
H

hadareud

The Translator
brotkasten said:
I just don't see how this changes anything at all.
Click to expand...

It doesn't.

What could change things if this rumoured modular OS leads to devices that are phones as well as tablets/full PC's.

And I use change very loosely. It won't ever mean a "revival" of Windows on phones, not even to the 10% it once had in Europe. But it could lead to viable niche devices for business and enthusiasts. Viable enough for MS and some OEM's to support it and to be relevant enough to warrant developer support.

That's the best they can hope for and even that is not likely. It's not impossible, though.
 
B

brotkasten

Member
Steelyuhas said:
If they release a new mobile device at some point, this is what it will run, but yeah that doesn't change any of the challenges of releasing a Windows OS mobile device.
Click to expand...

It still won't have any apps. I've been hearing a ton about progressive web apps for a while now and apparently they're at a point now where they want to crawl the web for these apps and put it up their store themselves. That's just sad.

claviertekky said:
Agreed.

This company strategy does nothing for consumers as Microsoft's initiations are usually terrible.

Fall Update does a lot more since Windows Server + Home/Pro will run on ARM.
Click to expand...

This is exactly the problem. Like camajise said, they are quitters and I hate it. If it doesn't work out of the gate, it gets dropped hard. The problem is that most of the times it doesn't work, because they always get to 90% of the way and give up right before the finish line. The foundation is there, you can see it's great and then it gets half-assed right at the end. Combine that with their awful messaging and there's no real reason for a regular consumer to get any Microsoft product over Google's and Apple's products. That said, it's "good" to see that Google is on the same trajectory, when it comes to their consumer products and hardware.

hadareud said:
It doesn't.

What could change things if this rumoured modular OS leads to devices that are phones as well as tablets/full PC's.

And I use change very loosely. It won't ever mean a "revival" of Windows on phones, not even to the 10% it once had in Europe. But it could lead to viable niche devices for business and enthusiasts. Viable enough for MS and some OEM's to support it and to be relevant enough to warrant developer support.

That's the best they can hope for and even that is not likely. It's not impossible, though.
Click to expand...

But how would that change the market in any capacity? I'm not getting any USP out of it. I'm not seeing anything that isn't already there, at least not for the consumer and without consumers, you won't get any dev support.
 
H

hadareud

The Translator
brotkasten said:
But how would that change the market in any capacity? I'm not getting any USP out of it. I'm not seeing anything that isn't already there, at least not for the consumer and without consumers, you won't get any dev support.
Click to expand...

For consumers, there's not really a draw. For businesses and professionals, there could be.

The USP for them is that neither Android, iOS or Chrome are really ready to cater to business needs.

I wouldn't expect great dev support either, but paired with desktop Windows it could be relevant enough to slightly increase dev support from the current situation on W10.

Again, this won't compete with iOS or Android phones. It can't. It's far too late for that. But it's just possible that there could be enough of a niche market to make it viable.
 
K

kazinova

Member
The decision to kill the android bridge continues to baffle. If they would have allowed every android app to flood the store I might've stuck with WP. Having a usable Discord app would've been enough. They are just too busy shooting themselves in the foot to make a successful mobile platform.
 
P

Paganmoon

Member
kazinova said:
The decision to kill the android bridge continues to baffle. If they would have allowed every android app to flood the store I might've stuck with WP. Having a usable Discord app would've been enough. They are just too busy shooting themselves in the foot to make a successful mobile platform.
Click to expand...

iirc, it was buggy as hell and caused slowdown of the phone with time. I only ever tried with one app (BB-8 remote), and it never really worked anyway. I think they decided it wasn't worth the hassle.

I think, lastflowers worked on the android bridge, so he might have some insider info. (or was it the IE desktop to mobile sync he worked on, was it both?)
 
S

Steelyuhas

Member
brotkasten said:
It still won't have any apps. I've been hearing a ton about progressive web apps for a while now and apparently they're at a point now where they want to crawl the web for these apps and put it up their store themselves. That's just sad.
Click to expand...
Yep, I admittedly don't know a ton about PWA, but it would appear that MSFT may be willing to more or less abandon the idea of UWP in favor of PWA...?
kazinova said:
The decision to kill the android bridge continues to baffle. If they would have allowed every android app to flood the store I might've stuck with WP. Having a usable Discord app would've been enough. They are just too busy shooting themselves in the foot to make a successful mobile platform.
Click to expand...
Apparently, it more or less did damage over time to the OS by having the Android subset in there. It's a shame they couldn't figure it out though, it would have kept me on WP for a while longer at least. The apps on Android are largely wildly better than they ever were on WP, but I'm not in love with the OS itself (performance clearly degrades significantly over time for me).
 
C

clav

Member
When Android can move out of KitKat and Lollipop as the starting base for its programs, things will change, a lot more so if Oreo can become standard since it forces manufacturers drivers to not rely on kernel, which will mean faster updates.

Right now, these OSes are Google's Windows XP.

brotkasten said:
This is exactly the problem. Like camajise said, they are quitters and I hate it. If it doesn't work out of the gate, it gets dropped hard. The problem is that most of the times it doesn't work, because they always get to 90% of the way and give up right before the finish line. The foundation is there, you can see it's great and then it gets half-assed right at the end. Combine that with their awful messaging and there's no real reason for a regular consumer to get any Microsoft product over Google's and Apple's products. That said, it's "good" to see that Google is on the same trajectory, when it comes to their consumer products and hardware.
Click to expand...

Hopefully Nadella who is now firmly positioned as head can change that.

Anyone read that PR piece?

https://www.fastcompany.com/40457458/satya-nadella-rewrites-microsofts-code

When I ask Nadella for his own account of working with his predecessors, he’s blunt. “Bill’s not the kind of guy who walks into your office and says, ‘Hey, great job,’ ” he tells me. “It’s like, ‘Let me start by telling you the 20 things that are wrong with you today.’ ” Ballmer’s technique, Nadella adds, is similar. He chuckles at the images he’s conjured and emphasizes that he finds such directness “refreshing.”
Click to expand...
 
A

Astral/H3X

Member
It's pretty funny honestly; all of the non-Windows things MS does suck because they don't stick with anything, and they just burn all their good ideas to the ground because oops it kinda sorta did not work. But Windows itself has become this unchanging monolith of way too much baggage; they really need their "OS X" equivalent where they just start over and have legacy support be emulation. I guess Windows 8/.1/10 were supposed to be that sort of idea but it hasn't really panned out that way so far (even though I love the modern app's design language, at least in 10 where they aren't afraid to have more than 2 buttons).
 
S

SCHUEY F1

Unconfirmed Member
Definitely not getting my hopes up and Ive more or less moved on. I'm loving my S8. Only niggles are contacts and Groove issues. Groove is not long for this world for me and I will be switching to Spotify.

I wish MS wasn't so slow and wouldn't squander opportunities. I would likely use Cortana, but still can't get officially in Canada on Android. Cortana has bugged me for a long time.

I still really like the Surface hardware and Xbox. I miss my Band a lot as well.
 
frontieruk

frontieruk

Member
SCHUEY F1 said:
Definitely not getting my hopes up and Ive more or less moved on. I'm loving my S8. Only niggles are contacts and Groove issues. Groove is not long for this world for me and I will be switching to Spotify.

I wish MS wasn't so slow and wouldn't squander opportunities. I would likely use Cortana, but still can't get officially in Canada on Android. Cortana has bugged me for a long time.

I still really like the Surface hardware and Xbox. I miss my Band a lot as well.
Click to expand...

You know all that Andromeda talk for phones and my first thought was actually bring back the band.
 
H

Heretic

Member
I'm ready for the Surface Phone. Currently on the S8+ and while it's nice having apps, I'd much rather have better hardware/OS. I have an ipod that I use as my musical device so if I need the apps I can get them there. I recognize I'm probably the only one with an ipod nowadays.
 
G

gamz

Member
Heretic said:
I'm ready for the Surface Phone. Currently on the S8+ and while it's nice having apps, I'd much rather have better hardware/OS. I have an ipod that I use as my musical device so if I need the apps I can get them there. I recognize I'm probably the only one with an ipod nowadays.
Click to expand...

Yeah, most of us are on Zune's.
 
P

Prez

Member
Anyone have an extremely fast draining battery since the last update? Went from 100% to 20% after 2 hours of use today...
 
S

SCHUEY F1

Unconfirmed Member
Groove got an update today for Android that I think finally fixed the download errors I was getting. Now to decide if I still want to switch to Spotify.

I definitely prefer the UI on Groove since it is easier to play artists and albums I've downloaded.
 
S

Steelyuhas

Member
SCHUEY F1 said:
Groove got an update today for Android that I think finally fixed the download errors I was getting. Now to decide if I still want to switch to Spotify.

I definitely prefer the UI on Groove since it is easier to play artists and albums I've downloaded.
Click to expand...

I've switched between Groove and Spotify a few different times just to experience both of them. I just switched back to Spotify mostly because I was frustrated with the Groove app on Android, which is a shame cause it's great on Windows.
 
S

SCHUEY F1

Unconfirmed Member
Steelyuhas said:
I've switched between Groove and Spotify a few different times just to experience both of them. I just switched back to Spotify mostly because I was frustrated with the Groove app on Android, which is a shame cause it's great on Windows.
Click to expand...

My Groove pass is up in October. Going to see how the next few weeks ago. So far I'm happy with the update. I like being able to have the artist image.
 
N

Nero3000

Member
Yeah killing groove has severely shortened how long I can hold out with the 950. Spotify by all accounts is terrible on WP10. I was able to do it because internet, email/calendar and groove was 1st class with good solutions for twitter, podcasts and whatsapp. That makes up 99% of my phone use.

Problem is that there is no good alternative.

iPhone - no headphone jack, tired design, lack of OLED unless £££
Samsung - bloat, lack of software updates
Other android - doesn't work with my corp email (I think)
Pixel 2 - looking like no headphone jack
Essential - poor camera, no headphone jack
Oneplus - camera poor
 
S

SCHUEY F1

Unconfirmed Member
Nero3000 said:
Yeah killing groove has severely shortened how long I can hold out with the 950. Spotify by all accounts is terrible on WP10. I was able to do it because internet, email/calendar and groove was 1st class with good solutions for twitter, podcasts and whatsapp. That makes up 99% of my phone use.

Problem is that there is no good alternative.

iPhone - no headphone jack, tired design, lack of OLED unless £££
Samsung - bloat, lack of software updates
Other android - doesn't work with my corp email (I think)
Pixel 2 - looking like no headphone jack
Essential - poor camera, no headphone jack
Oneplus - camera poor
Click to expand...

I've been using the S8 since April and it has been great other than issues with contacts. My brother is going to jump to the Note8 since he has finally had it.
 
B

brotkasten

Member
SCHUEY F1 said:
Well Groove is done at the end of the year. MS made my decision for me.
Click to expand...

Just saw the headline and had a good chuckle.

If I learned one thing over the years, it's to never invest a penny into any of Microsoft consumer services, ever. Xbox might be the exception, but even then I'd have to find a reason to use it first, but that's down to personal preference.

Don't buy movies, music or heck, books on the Store. It makes no sense for Microsoft to sell any of that and as a consumer it makes no sense to buy it from them. Microsoft might abandon that ship anytime, whenever they feel like it.

I simply do not trust this company with any of their consumer ventures anymore. If there's no enterprise hook, it's not going to last.
 
I

Izuna

Banned
I switched recently from Windows Phone but yeah, what's the point in the platform anymore...

All I need with Android is OneDrive sync for pictures (not just upload) and there's nothing left on Windows Phone.

MS screwed this shit up royally.
 
S

SCHUEY F1

Unconfirmed Member
brotkasten said:
Just saw the headline and had a good chuckle.

If I learned one thing over the years, it's to never invest a penny into any of Microsoft consumer services, ever. Xbox might be the exception, but even then I'd have to find a reason to use it first, but that's down to personal preference.

Don't buy movies, music or heck, books on the Store. It makes no sense for Microsoft to sell any of that and as a consumer it makes no sense to buy it from them. Microsoft might abandon that ship anytime, whenever they feel like it.

I simply do not trust this company with any of their consumer ventures anymore. If there's no enterprise hook, it's not going to last.
Click to expand...

I had bought a few music albums this year from the store so I went to go download them on my S8 and found half the album was no longer available to download even though I purchased it. Luckily I powered up my 950xl and I still had the files on there so I can upload them to OneDrive. Going to be super nervous about buying anymore TV shows or movies.

Halo and Forza as well as friends keep me on Xbox.
 
The Faceless Master

The Faceless Master

Member
Nero3000 said:
Yeah killing groove has severely shortened how long I can hold out with the 950. Spotify by all accounts is terrible on WP10. I was able to do it because internet, email/calendar and groove was 1st class with good solutions for twitter, podcasts and whatsapp. That makes up 99% of my phone use.

Problem is that there is no good alternative.

iPhone - no headphone jack, tired design, lack of OLED unless £££
Samsung - bloat, lack of software updates
Other android - doesn't work with my corp email (I think)
Pixel 2 - looking like no headphone jack
Essential - poor camera, no headphone jack
Oneplus - camera poor
Click to expand...
even XDA is onboard.

https://www.xda-developers.com/note-8-real-world-performance-analysis/
 
L

LostMyNarbles

Member
I know the platform is kind of dead at the moment, but I figured I would throw it out there that the Alcatel Idol 4S is on sale at the Microsoft Store for $200. I feel like if you don't expect much out of your phone (Given the limited apps) that is an insanely good price given the hardware packed inside of it.

Specs for reference:
Snapdragon 820
4GB RAM
64GB Storage with MicroSD Support
5.5" Full HD AMOLED Display
3,000 mAh Battery with Quick Charge 3.0
Dual Front-Facing Speakers (And a Headphone Jack!)
Fingerprint Scanner
Continuum Support and Crappy VR headset included.
21MP/8MP Camera's.
 
V

VanMardigan

has calmed down a bit.
I stopped buying movies on my Xbox more than a year ago but I own some and I'm mad that I'll probably lose them. Thankfully the Disney movies already synced over to my iTunes account.
 
H

hadareud

The Translator
I'm not surprised they're stopping the subscription model for Groove, but that they're not even selling music at all anymore is weird.

This truly is the end of an era. Zune and the Zune pass got me on the MS train and made me want a Microsoft phone. 10 years on it's over.

My gf was really upset by the news, it's starting to sink in for her that all MS consumer products are being phased out.

It sucks. I really don't want to move to Android, but what option is there.

The question is what's next (beyond movies). Xbox? Windows? I wouldn't be shocked anymore.

Nadella is great for their Enterprise stuff, but consumer MS is dead.
 
M

MarkusRJR

Member
Wow, consumer MS is basically dead. All that's really left is Xbox, Movies/TV, and Surface.

Honestly since last year I've been slowly moving all my services over to Google, and I've found the experience much better. The only things I've really stuck around for is Xbox, Office365 (because I get it free while in school), and Movies & TV (because I already have a huge collection there).

Really worried for my Movie/TV collection now. I have hundreds of dollars sunk into their Movies/TV ecosystem. How safe is Google's Movie and TV ecosystem? iTunes seems to have tons more content-wise, but I have no Apple products so it seems pointless to move over to that platform.
 
S

SCHUEY F1

Unconfirmed Member
Trying to think how many years I've been using Groove /Zune Music. It was always funny seeing people just discover music services like Apple Music like it was something new.

Not sure I want to get anymore digital TV shows and movies. Im not going iTunes so is Google the only option for this in Cananda. I would like to see MS say something about the Music and TV service.
 
H

hadareud

The Translator
I have a similar situation on WP.

I guess I'll end up using Spotify for the stuff I don't own (they seem to have pretty much everything I have on Groove) and for the rest I'll keep using Groove.

Which is a bit shit of course, but what can you do.
 
N

Nero3000

Member
SCHUEY F1 said:
Trying to think how many years I've been using Groove /Zune Music. It was always funny seeing people just discover music services like Apple Music like it was something new.

Not sure I want to get anymore digital TV shows and movies. Im not going iTunes so is Google the only option for this in Cananda. I would like to see MS say something about the Music and TV service.
Click to expand...

Since WP7 launch for me...(2010)
 
N

Nero3000

Member
Where are Cortana speakers going to stream from?

Screw it...selling the Xbox - cortana and Kinect went nowhere. Will get an echo and some android box.
 
M

maeh2k

Member
Nero3000 said:
Where are Cortana speakers going to stream from?

Screw it...selling the Xbox - cortana and Kinect went nowhere. Will get an echo and some android box.
Click to expand...

I'd like to see some usage numbers for Cortana. In theory, hundreds of millions of people have access to Cortana across Windows, Xbox, Windows Phone, Cortana on Android, and those speakers. Unfortunately for Microsoft, virtually no one actually uses it...
In a typical Microsoft fashion, they now will somehow integrate it with Alexa, wasting time so people will be able to not use Cortana on another platform.

And there's really not much they can do about this without a credible mobile platform of their own. Even if Cortana was better than the competition, barely anyone would deviate from their platform's default voice assistant.
 
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