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So, about the Wii U 50hz VC...
- Thread starter Neff
- Start date
I'm 25, live in Australia and have never used a TV that can't do 60hz or NTSC. I didn't even know what 50hz was for until the early 2000's when I looked it up as I saw no reason to choose it when the option was given.
When I looked that up it would've been on dial-up. I'd joke about Nintendo giving us dial-up to compliment 50hz but it seems Nintendo have given the whole world that treatment with Wii U system updates.
When I looked that up it would've been on dial-up. I'd joke about Nintendo giving us dial-up to compliment 50hz but it seems Nintendo have given the whole world that treatment with Wii U system updates.
gingerbeardman
Member
Given that the Wii U is probably most commonly connected over HDMI, and every HDMI TV can do both 50Hz and 60Hz that excuse is a joke.
PedroPanache
Member
Same here. I remember my friends and I renting a Japanese SNES back in the day, and even then every TV I came across supported NTSC. The general wisdom was that a TV would sometimes carry two scart sockets, with one properly supporting RGB and NTSC, you plugged your console into that, and, say, if it was a modified PS1 console with an NTSC game, it would display in full screen and full colour. Basically, you'd need an RGB Scart cable to be able to display the games in colour, the standard one would display them in black and white.
In the UK, ever since I became aware of NTSC games and consoles, I've never come across a TV that didn't properly play NTSC games, and I've been doing this a long time, ever since the early 90's. I'm sure the crappy portable I had in the 80's probably couldn't play them, but who knows, all I know is that statement about most TV's not supporting NTSC is bullshit, and moldy, smelly uninformed bullshit at that.
Portugeezer
Member
The feel of 100hz
Wouldn't impact the UK much (or a game like Balloon Fight) but I'm sure some of the VC games were translated into other languages when they were released into Europe. They'd need to do all that localization work again from the US rom.
Setting aside the fact that the required effort can't be all that great for most games (the translations were already made, after all): Most people (especially those interested in a service like the "Virtual Console") won't care about getting a translated version of games like "Balloon Fight" (does it even exist?). Plenty of games were released as English language only versions back in the day.
If the language issue proves to be that important, just let us choose between 50Hz or 60Hz version when buying and everything will be perfect.
gingerbeardman
Member
Exactly this.
gingerbeardman
Member
Box of Bunnies
Banned
Again, why would it not be? Nintendo have given their reasons. This has been their standard for six or seven years. Some enthusiasts complaining on their message board isn't going to change anything.
Do you live in Europe/PAL land?
If you don't, try putting yourself into our shoes. We're getting fucking shafted. Who gives a damn if the standard has been there for the past six years? Technology has progressed. We're not living in the 1990s anymore. There is no technically legitimate reason that we should be given inferior versions to what every other country in the world gets.
Would you want to play F Zero squashed into three quarters of the available screen space, running 17% slower than it was originally intended? On a console that not only outputs in 60hz via HDMI AS STANDARD, but also has a NATIVE 60hz device (the gamepad) included with EVERY console? Don't compare it to the Wii - the gamepad by itself makes the 60hz argument far more valid by that aspect.
Its fucking indefensible.
Box of Bunnies
Banned
I'm Australian, yes.
There was no technological reason for us not being given the option on the Wii Virtual Console either given that the import titles they felt like slapping us with an "import" surcharge on were 60hz-only.
Ya'll are late. We lost this war six years ago.
TheDrowningMan
Member
Yep, Sony and Nintendo are super-backwards with this kind of thing. Is there any possibility there could be a different explanation for it? Seems odd that this is the practice for both when they know 60hz would be better received by the majority of people who'll bother to buy retro games.
KennyLinder
Member
In fairness...
Nintendo wouldn't want to release just English language versions of games in 60hz. If they were going to do it, they would want to support all major European languages. This is an issue because they probably won't sell many of them, and it would cost money to do this. In addition to some comments about fixing it, not all PAL games can simply be switched to 60hz without issues occurring (games with optimised sound would fuck up for example).
They won't release every VC in just 60hz either, despite a few occasions I can think of when they have (Metroid Prime 2, Zelda bonus discs, Sin and Punishment N64 VC). It's not possible for them to switch every game.
Also, ratings are probably an issue for them, with certain games getting rated different, content etc etc.
However...
Nintendo should just offer a 60hz English only option on the store. And, don't all VC games need to be re-rated anyway these days? I think they do, which is how we find out early about games coming out.
If F-Zero is 50hz only I'll email them again. I really want this game.
Nintendo wouldn't want to release just English language versions of games in 60hz. If they were going to do it, they would want to support all major European languages. This is an issue because they probably won't sell many of them, and it would cost money to do this. In addition to some comments about fixing it, not all PAL games can simply be switched to 60hz without issues occurring (games with optimised sound would fuck up for example).
They won't release every VC in just 60hz either, despite a few occasions I can think of when they have (Metroid Prime 2, Zelda bonus discs, Sin and Punishment N64 VC). It's not possible for them to switch every game.
Also, ratings are probably an issue for them, with certain games getting rated different, content etc etc.
However...
Nintendo should just offer a 60hz English only option on the store. And, don't all VC games need to be re-rated anyway these days? I think they do, which is how we find out early about games coming out.
If F-Zero is 50hz only I'll email them again. I really want this game.
Dash Kappei
Not actually that important
Prolly not the case with german and french but as far as italian goes, Nintendo started putting out translated content only with the advent of Nintendo Italia, ie GBA/Gamecube and some late Game Boy Color releases (Zelda Oracle), before that everything was english only bar a few quirky edu titles or a couple of soccer games . Same for Neo-Geo, PC-Engine and Sega consoles: a few Dreamcast and (even less) Saturn games have italian but that's it.
So the [60Hz = no localization] point is moot, at least for the ITA/UK eShops.
Bjoern the Smexy
Member
As far as I know F-Zero has been sped up to run just as fast on PAL consoles, so even if the game is 50Hz it's still just as fast as the NTSC versions.
I have F Zero on the SNES and have played it on the Wii VC. Its not sped up. Its shit. I used to have both the PAL and USA copies of F Zero SNES and the difference between the both was huge.
Lynd7
Member
Yeah we may have lost six years ago, but they are having to go and re-code these games to some degree again. Now is a perfect time to bring this issue back up.
DeFiBkIlLeR
Banned
It doesn't help that Nintendo's European HQ is in Germany, so obviously there will be very little motivation/incentive by anybody there to give preferential treatment to English language versions.
Nope.
eXistor
Member
Never give up the fight, it's the only way to change things.
Lynd7
Member
You could play in the proper 4:3 aspect on Wii fine. I heard there is some problem on Wii U though, but has a work-around.
Ohhhh. Aspect ratio. Misunderstood that.
The thing is, though, I'd wager that the audience for 60hz titles wouldn't actually mind about that. I'm sure they'd be perfectly content with the option to download the US version.
Yeah, I grew up playing the crap out of video games here in Australia and to be honest with you, I've never owned a TV that didn't support 60hz... and I once owned an OLD Sanyo TV that... well it's probably 30 years old now and still works.
Then again, I never owned a TV that had SCART... and apparently that's common as anything in euro pal countries?
Anyhow, here in Aussie-land, we speak English. Not German, or Italian, or French or whatever crazy language the euro people demand their games to be translated into before being allowed to be sold.
Now I presume our land is tiny when it comes to sales, so they just converted for the euro market back in those days... but c'mon... never has one TV I've encountered in this country for the past 25 years have I seen something that didn't accept pal 60hz or NTSC 60hz
Why u no 60hz~~~!
Then again, I never owned a TV that had SCART... and apparently that's common as anything in euro pal countries?
Anyhow, here in Aussie-land, we speak English. Not German, or Italian, or French or whatever crazy language the euro people demand their games to be translated into before being allowed to be sold.
Now I presume our land is tiny when it comes to sales, so they just converted for the euro market back in those days... but c'mon... never has one TV I've encountered in this country for the past 25 years have I seen something that didn't accept pal 60hz or NTSC 60hz
Why u no 60hz~~~!
KennyLinder
Member
Agreed 100%. Sadly the powers that control all this are too stuck in their ways to see differently.
AkimbO_Arcana
Banned
Your argument is flawed by the fact that I have Balloon Fight running in 60hz on my PAL 3DS.
But what is their reasoning again?
gingerbeardman
Member
I'm not aware of Nintendo having given any reasons. What's your source of info?
For some reason I couldn't force 4:3 on my Wii. I tried both the Wii's aspect ratio settings (jumped to full screen as you launch a VC game) and forcing my TV's aspect ratio, but with Wii signal it just wouldn't work...
Box of Bunnies
Banned
Handhelds are different because they don't need to conform to any television standards and can instead be the same across the board. 50/60hz has never applied to them and therefore never does even with NES games.
Multiple people on GAF have contacted Nintendo about the 50hz Virtual Console thing and been told that it is a conscious decision to provide an experience accurate to that when the games were first released here.
Basically they just don't give a shit and are happy to dump the same 50hz ROM onto the server in the name of accuracy to inaccuracy.
Except the WiiU comes with HDMI as standard, which makes that argument moot. If your TV can handle HDMI, it can handle 60hz.
Box of Bunnies
Banned
So you read the first part of my post and just completely ignored the second? This is Nintendo's excuse, not mine.
But the 3DS version isn't accurate to how I experienced it as a kid! If they're going to state an argument, they really ought to be consistent about it across all their platforms.
Anyhow: I will continue to kick up a fuss, because as a passionate consumer, I feel obliged to express to Nintendo that their product choice is not meeting my requirements. They are under absolutely no obligation to heed me, of course. They're not committing any crime, they're just releasing a product that is inadequate for me. However, I still have a right to express that there is a product available which *is* adequate for me and perfectly distributable.
In a sense, this a little bit like Rayman. They have a product that I wish to purchase, but they have not made that available for me to purchase. All I can do is inform them of that.
Box of Bunnies
Banned
It's accurate to how you'dve experienced it if it'd been released on a handheld considering there was no difference on them[/devil'sadvocate]
There's still issues with fonts and text size (in data terms). A script may not be trivially insertable, and may not be fully-viewable with the font system coded into the US version.
Heh. To be fair, that's just about sound, but horribly contorted - although I'm sure you recognise that fact!
This is getting really stupid.
Many games weren't translated back in the day (at least that's how I remember it in terms of German texts), and this is irrelevant anyway: Most people interested in VC games probably don't care about translations all that much, and if - in Nintendo's opinion - they do, they should put up both editions for download.
I expect a bit more than this paltry effort from an "official" ROM download offer: I can play the correct 60Hz version on pretty much any device using widely available emulators, I have no interest in spending any kind of money on shitty 50Hz ROMs (and let's not talk about the fact that the VC selection is tiny at best - they need to do more for me to be interested).
I pretty much said that directly further up, was just pointing out the flaws with the particular suggestion I was responding to,
Box of Bunnies
Banned
Of course. I'm just joining their given reason for it on consoles with their lack of reason on handhelds. Super Mario Bros. DX ran the same on a Game Boy Colour no matter where you were from so it stands to reason Super Mario Bros. VC would do likewise. The same with Dr. Wily's Revenge and Mega Man 2.
It's silly but that's what happens.
I don't see why. "We want it to be true to the original experience" is the given reason. The original experience on consoles was 50hz, the original experience on handhelds was the same speed worldwide.
It's not my policy, I don't like it any more than anyone else, I admit that it's silly as shit, but that's how it is.
That's why Nintendo should offer options. I live in a country where we don't refuse to speak English. So we would play a 60hz version in English in a heartbeat. Now I feel like I'm being punished because people in Italy, France, Germany etc. refuse to speak english.
What speed does LoZ run at? The text was updated for the GBA release and as far as I am aware they have used that version for every release afterwards. Since it was on GBA first in theory it was the same speed throughout the world, so if the VC release was 50Hz they actually chose to slow it down.
Neon_Icarus
Member
I was really angry about this at first, but now I just don't
care. If Nintendo won't bother giving us proper 60hz releases,
I just won't buy any VC games from them.
Of course, I'll post about it on Miiverse for the next two VC
releases, but after that (if nothing happens) I'll just pretend VC
doesn't exist.
It's a sad state of affairs when in 2013, I wish I imported a US
console.
care. If Nintendo won't bother giving us proper 60hz releases,
I just won't buy any VC games from them.
Of course, I'll post about it on Miiverse for the next two VC
releases, but after that (if nothing happens) I'll just pretend VC
doesn't exist.
It's a sad state of affairs when in 2013, I wish I imported a US
console.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
I'm 99% positive that, in the vast majority of cases, it would be easier to make the PAL version run in 60hz than to change the text in the NTSC version.
The former would often be a quick and simple change to the emulator, especially in cases when no effort was made to convert the software in the first place. The latter would often be a complete recompile or laborious hack job.
D.Lo
Member
Yep, I run lots of PAL games in 60Hz on my 50/60Hz switched consoles. The only ones with problems are first and second party Nintendo games, plus Sonic 2's music.