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Eusis · Jun 2, 2012

D_prOdigy said:
I think this will be the flavour of UE4 discussion. People having to 'point out' how good it actually is. Perhaps we really are approaching the ceiling.

Once we see more it'll likely be more apparent how good it really is.

... Problem is even if we can tell a lot of us will probably still feel it's really not that big of a jump regardless of what the numbers would say, and the public would probably be even harder to impress as they'd just go "They looks like a 360 game!". Depending on how this unfolds I could definitely could see a gap like the Wii had with 360/PS3 not mattering as much, not unless we're seeing a huge jump in how big and open games are or something instead.

monocromo · Jun 2, 2012

TacticalFox88 said:
Please tell me this is an old pic. Windows XP? Seriously? In 2012?

He is also smiling. That should give away its an old pic.

Fudgepuppy · Jun 2, 2012

Sounds fantastic that they are focusing on creating a tool that makes development a lot smoother and easier.

The perfect way to adapt to next-gen hardware, is if we create tools that allow all people on a team to create assets from their own imagination on a very short time-span. It would speed up development and let developers put their true imagination where they really need to put in effort.

Maybe this way we can actually marry detailed visuals with great scale.

DieH@rd · Jun 2, 2012

thuway said:
I have zero idea how next generation consoles are going to hit the GTX 680 power requirement. We are looking at half that power .

They will not have DirectX and OS overhead. PC with 680 does not takes advantages from all available resources becouse OS needs to worry about 1xxxxxx possible hw configurations, latencies, etc.

Mr Swine · Jun 2, 2012

Jonm1010 said:
So heres my next question.

This is running on a gtx 680 card.

What will be needed for next gen consoles to meet this requirement give the advantages of a consoles closed architecture and the speculation on very high powered CPU's to compliment the graphics cards?

Middle end GPU if its going to match a GTX 680 which it won't have. It will have the same features but I guess it won't even have half the power that a 680 is

Derrick01 · Jun 2, 2012

Nirolak said:
I think they should have went with a human.

People seemed more impressed with the less proficient Samaritan demo.

Samaritan at the time impressed me a bit but then Epic went ahead saying this would embarrass it so when I saw that I was just left with a "...that's it?" feeling. I'm not saying this looks bad, just that it doesn't blow me away like next gen stuff should.

Setting is also important to me too. A jungle or city looks better to me than a volcano and some random demon.

Oblivion · Jun 2, 2012

iamshadowlark said:
You'd be mighty foolish then.

I sort of agree with him. But I think the differences would be magnified with side by side images of current gen games.

I dunno, to me, it doesn't seem much better than the best of this gen, but then again, some others here have better eyes than I do.

jj984jj · Jun 2, 2012

Next-gen brings particles. Lots and lots of particles.

MuddyDonut · Jun 2, 2012

Can't wait for all the particools to flood the screen when I blow shit up.

The Bookerman · Jun 2, 2012

TacticalFox88 said:
Please tell me this is an old pic. Windows XP? Seriously? In 2012?

Dyack has been really seen since the sales of too human weren't too hot.700k world wide, while MS probably expected something along the lines of 2m.

Izick · Jun 2, 2012

monocromo said:
He is also smiling. That should give away its an old pic.

Grayman · Jun 2, 2012

I have seen the single character and environment tech demo song and dance enough to not be impressed by the fire guy. In practical game use the tech demos are never approached on current hardware.

Jonm1010 · Jun 2, 2012

Mr Swine said:
Middle end GPU if its going to match a GTX 680 which it won't have. It will have the same features but I guess it won't even have half the power that a 680 is

Aren't most hardware rumors pointing to a slightly above middle of the road GPU with a fairly beastly CPU?

I haven't kept up with every rumor thread but that was my understanding.

iavi · Jun 2, 2012

Oblivion said:
I sort of agree with him. But I think the differences would be magnified with side by side images of current gen games.

I dunno, to me, it doesn't seem much better than the best of this gen, but then again, some others here have better eyes than I do.

We also haven't seen the extent of this demo. Even in the previous pics, other environments were shown. Way too many conclusions are being come to on muddy pics and one-second gifs.

Horse Armour · Jun 2, 2012

Mr Swine said:
Middle end GPU if its going to match a GTX 680 which it won't have. It will have the same features but I guess it won't even have half the power that a 680 is

Console optimisation will get you much more out of the hardware than on PC so even if the GPU is only 50-60% as powerful as the 680, they should be able to get most of the way there simply through optimisation. Also, this likely runs at at least 1080p and maybe at 60FPS too and we don't know if next gen consoles will be aiming for 1080p or sticking with 720p again.

iamshadowlark · Jun 2, 2012

Oblivion said:
I sort of agree with him. But I think the differences would be magnified with side by side images of current gen games.

I dunno, to me, it doesn't seem much better than the best of this gen, but then again, some others here have better eyes than I do.

Well UE3 isn't exactly the best of this gen and I don't think UE4 will be either. I wonder how will ND's and SSM's first couple of titles will look after ICE gets a crack at the hardware?

Robot Pants · Jun 2, 2012

Miri said:
We also haven't seen the extent of this demo. Even in the previous pics, other environments were shown. Way too many conclusions are being come to on muddy pics and one-second gifs.

Neogaf.gif

wonderdung · Jun 2, 2012

BigTnaples said:
Framrates have nothing to do with engines. Framerates will hit 30 regularly, and occasionally below.

People keep saying this but it's only partially true. Engines come with design decisions which can make or break 60fps. Of course modifications can always be made.

Here's a good presentation from people that got early UE3 (back when it was riddled with problems) to run at 60fps: http://www.scribd.com/doc/15118967/Hitting-60Hz-in-Unreal-Engine

Edit: Spoilers... they had to rewrite and/or not use large parts of UE3.

iamshadowlark · Jun 2, 2012

Grayman said:
I have seen the single character and environment tech demo song and dance enough to not be impressed by the fire guy. In practical game use the tech demos are never approached on current hardware.

Well I don't think they are doing much cheating from this one scene. I mean look at the insane draw distance. Theres detail going on to about half a mile or so.

Look at this scene.

I don't think we have much to worry about in regards to real world performance.

MmmSkyscraper · Jun 2, 2012

monocromo said:
He is also smiling. That should give away its an old pic.

Glorified G · Jun 2, 2012

iamshadowlark said:
Well I don't think they are doing much cheating from this one scene. I mean look at the insane draw distance. Theres detail going on to about half a mile or so.

Look at this scene.

http://www.abload.de/img/screenshot_283085y7iqu.jpeg

I don't think we have much to worry about in regards to real world performance.

Anyone who says the image above can be done on current gen hardware are complete batshit insane.

"Diminished returns" phrase should be banned based on that pic alone.

solarus · Jun 2, 2012

People here who think that gif looks like current gen are insane, it looks like CGI to me. Bring on next gen!

Nirolak · Jun 2, 2012

Glorified G said:
Anyone who says the image above can be done on current gen hardware are complete batshit insane.

Apparently that entire area is exploding and crumbling in the actual demo.

Eusis · Jun 2, 2012

Glorified G said:
Anyone who says the image above can be done on current gen hardware are complete batshit insane.

"Diminished returns" phrase should be banned based on that pic alone.

You might be able to make do with lower resolution textures (and obviously fewer/no particles) at least, and it can still be a diminished return based on the jumps from prior consoles, though it IS kind of tough to beat the PS1 to PS2 when we're talking about textured polygons, nevermind anything before PS1/Saturn for polygons period.

Izick · Jun 2, 2012

solarus said:
People here who think that gif looks like current gen are insane, it looks like CGI to me. Bring on next gen!

It looks like pretty decent CGI, which is still way beyond current gen graphics, but then again it's just a tech demo.

EmCeeGramr · Jun 2, 2012

i'm on a 2560x1440 monitor and my tables just broke

what the hell

murderofMonkey · Jun 2, 2012

lensflare will be the new bloom :/

Grayman · Jun 2, 2012

iamshadowlark said:
Well I don't think they are doing much cheating from this one scene. I mean look at the insane draw distance. Theres detail going on to about half a mile or so.

Look at this scene.

I don't think we have much to worry about in regards to real world performance.

Every video card demo I can think of looked significantly better than anything actually used in a game on that hardware. UE4 may have great features and streamline development but the closed demos aren't going to show me what games look like.

Eusis · Jun 2, 2012

It's also on a 680, which I DOUBT the next consoles will be having the equivalent of. Not unless there's some rapid progress (at least in making it cheaper) or they really do go with the contract model.

Nirolak · Jun 2, 2012

Eusis said:
It's also on a 680, which I DOUBT the next consoles will be having the equivalent of. Not unless there's some rapid progress (at least in making it cheaper) or they really do go with the contract model.

I suspect the demo is running at at least 1080p, while I'm expecting next-gen games to stick with 720p to push more effects.

That alone tends to be a pretty large performance save when you're doing a ton of stuff per pixel.

Horse Armour · Jun 2, 2012

Are they going to release the full video this E3?

Oblivion · Jun 2, 2012

How powerful is a 680 graphics card compared to Xenos and RSX?

BigTnaples · Jun 2, 2012

Grayman said:
Every video card demo I can think of looked significantly better than anything actually used in a game on that hardware. UE4 may have great features and streamline development but the closed demos aren't going to show me what games look like.

Eh, sometimes but not always true.

Here is a demo I was being all impressed with in 2004 on my PC graphics card.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-W-LUfnw0o&feature=youtube_gdata_player

A year later the 360 hardware was released which gave us these graphics, with 120fps physics, damage, and tons of on screen cars with AI etc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BTo-Wzdong&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Nirolak · Jun 2, 2012

Horse Armour said:
Are they going to release the full video this E3?

They have a 30 minute ~~infomercial~~ special on GTTV on June 7th with this video and a lot of interactive demos.

RoboPlato · Jun 2, 2012

Nirolak said:
I suspect the demo is running at at least 1080p, while I'm expecting next-gen games to stick with 720p to push more effects.

That alone tends to be a pretty large performance save when you're doing a ton of stuff per pixel.

I don't think (read:hope) that 720p won't be too common but I can see a middle ground resolution being used a lot. Especially if the next-gen consoles have better upscalers than the current gen that might be a good way of having a resolution bump without having to go as far as 1080p, as much as I want that. The jump to 1080p is also bigger than the jump to 720p from 480i/p so hopefully we'll see at least some games hitting it.

Kinyou · Jun 2, 2012

ImLibo said:

Still not really "Samariter demo looks like crap" worthy, but we're getting there.

Looking forward to see a full demo.

NBtoaster · Jun 2, 2012

Nirolak said:
I suspect the demo is running at at least 1080p, while I'm expecting next-gen games to stick with 720p to push more effects.

That alone tends to be a pretty large performance save when you're doing a ton of stuff per pixel.

And with the deeper hardware access of consoles something like a 560 or 7850 will probably be able to match 680 performance.

RoboPlato · Jun 2, 2012

Kinyou said:
Still not really "Samariter demo looks like crap" worthy, but we're getting there.

Looking forward to see a full demo.

I know it would be a waste of time but I would love to see a redone version of Samaritan in UE4. Losing a lot of the UE3 look and adding some of the added effects could make a drastic improvement.

Kinyou · Jun 2, 2012

RoboPlato said:
I know it would be a waste of time but I would love to see a redone version of Samaritan in UE4. Losing a lot of the UE3 look and adding some of the added effects could make a drastic improvement.

Would certainly be a cool way to show of all the improvements.

iavi · Jun 2, 2012

RoboPlato said:
I know it would be a waste of time but I would love to see a redone version of Samaritan in UE4. Losing a lot of the UE3 look and adding some of the added effects could make a drastic improvement.

I'm still banking on Samaritan being an actual game.

DieH@rd · Jun 2, 2012

NBtoaster said:
And with the deeper hardware access of consoles something like a 560 or 7850 will probably be able to match 680 performance.

Some variant of 7850 is without a doubt best choice. 100W, ~2.4tflops, small and very efficient.

BigTnaples · Jun 2, 2012

Nirolak said:
They have a 30 minute ~~infomercial~~ special on GTTV on June 7th with this video and a lot of interactive demos.

This is exactly what UE4 needs. An infomercial.

Honestly. It needs to shown from multiple angles and show close ups of physics and reflections etc.

Otherwise, if you just show a short samaritan like trailer, you get flocks of people saying it looks worse than a PS3 game, even if it is a CGI quality demo.

And on a side note, I am borderline obsessed with that left hip armor interacting with the demons left leg. It just looks so perfect!!!!!

Represent. · Jun 2, 2012

iamshadowlark said:
Well I don't think they are doing much cheating from this one scene. I mean look at the insane draw distance. Theres detail going on to about half a mile or so.

Look at this scene.

I don't think we have much to worry about in regards to real world performance.

That image is so sexy. It looks like friggin concept art. Imagine playing concept art.

Eusis · Jun 2, 2012

Nirolak said:
I suspect the demo is running at at least 1080p, while I'm expecting next-gen games to stick with 720p to push more effects.

That alone tends to be a pretty large performance save when you're doing a ton of stuff per pixel.

I have to admit, I maybe happy if it's just 720p or higher on average next time, given how many failed to hit 720p this time.

Oblivion said:
How powerful is a 680 graphics card compared to Xenos and RSX?

An immense gulf. I believe the RSX is roughly equivalent to a 7000 series GeForce, but someone can better pinpoint. At any rate, once we have better equivalents look here, it's a Graphics Card hierarchy chart on Tom's Hardware.

USIGSJ · Jun 2, 2012

BigTnaples said:
And on a side note, I am borderline obsessed with that left hip armor interacting with the demons left leg. It just looks so perfect!!!!!

Yeah, just noticed that, was too busy watching at the particles before.

I'm interested too see how they handle GI and reflections.

Ryaaan14 · Jun 2, 2012

Jesus Christ that gif. ;_;

Grayman · Jun 2, 2012

BigTnaples said:
Eh, sometimes but not always true.

Here is a demo I was being all impressed with in 2004 on my PC graphics card.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-W-LUfnw0o&feature=youtube_gdata_player

A year later the 360 hardware was released which gave us these graphics, with 120fps physics, damage, and tons of on screen cars with AI etc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BTo-Wzdong&feature=youtube_gdata_player

I had an nvidia card around then and found that no games it ran really matched the tech demos. There is a certain amount of animation, scripting, and fine tuning that goes into these things that keep them looking distinct from production games.

SapientWolf · Jun 2, 2012

Grayman said:
Every video card demo I can think of looked significantly better than anything actually used in a game on that hardware. UE4 may have great features and streamline development but the closed demos aren't going to show me what games look like.

I don't think so, no. I haven't been impressed by a video card demo since Toy Shop and Dawn.

RoboPlato · Jun 2, 2012

DieH@rd said:
Some variant of 7850 is without a doubt best choice. 100W, ~2.4tflops, small and very efficient.

My fingers are crossed for this. I don't have any doubts that processors will be solid and I would love to see 7850 levels of performance paired up with a decent amount of RAM. I think all of these high profile interviews and statements about UE4 are a power play by Epic to get some higher specs for next gen from hardware makers. If the more of the public is aware of this as being the successor engine to what powers most games this gen and gets more exposure to the tech demos (through the GTTV special, etc) then a lot more of the public will be banking on that level of performance for next gen. It won't just be people like us on message boards.

Horse Armour · Jun 2, 2012

Nirolak said:
They have a 30 minute ~~infomercial~~ special on GTTV on June 7th with this video and a lot of interactive demos.

Cool, nice.

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