More_Badass
Member
Maybe the short story "A Pail of Air"? Although that's less "end of the universe" and more earth becoming a rogue planet
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Your favorite science fiction/speculative fiction concepts?
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More_Badass
Member
I just got Eden from Stanislaw Lem, and the synopsis for that and some of his other books sounds like you would really like his work
I'm the same way. I love stories about first contact with and exploration of completely alien worlds. Which is why I liked the first half of Rendezvous with Rama much more than the second half
Several topics...
Man-made AIs and how humanity will interact with them. It's a really basic concept that has been around for ages. However, I always love to see someone giving it their own spin. From the three laws of robotics, to helpful hive minds that run everything just because, to alien seeming planetary consciousnesses that are far beyond anything a simple group of humans could even begin to comprehend. Will they be slaves, partners, or aliens. Will they even want to interact, or stay hidden/retreat into a wormhole/hijack some von Neumann machines and 3D print themselves into existence?
Group/hive minds/gestalt intellects or however you want to call it. Especially when transition into or out of, or communication with it is involved. There's such a rich treasure trove of drama and speculation and philosophical discussion to be had.
How we will evolve further is such an interesting issue. Will we go with genetic augmentation? Technological implants? Living symbiotes? Will our slave workers live and breathe or whir and whizz? Or both? Will we preserve our roots or go hyper-aggressive with modifications? Will we still need our bodies, will we keep the current unified body blueprint or specialise and splinter into several subspecies? Will we have a choice, or be forced into hive minds or virtual intellects using shared robot slaves for whenever we need something done in the real world? I think an internet of minds is inevitable at some point, but what lies beyond that? Another high level concept for sure, but I love it nonetheless.
The concept of "aliens" as Lem described them most of the time. There may be some overlap with our concepts and thinking patterns, but in the end, the other side remains utterly different. Can we communicate and get along with someone that is far more than just a big titted gal in a skintight suit and some SFX makeup? What if the xenomorph in Alien just wants to cuddle, but can't express that emotion in a human-compatible way or feels threatened by our noises, brain waves, tech devices? No, but seriously, aliens that are truly alien are apparently hard to write. Threading the fine line between preposterous bullshit and humanity-with-a-kink is hard.
Man-made AIs and how humanity will interact with them. It's a really basic concept that has been around for ages. However, I always love to see someone giving it their own spin. From the three laws of robotics, to helpful hive minds that run everything just because, to alien seeming planetary consciousnesses that are far beyond anything a simple group of humans could even begin to comprehend. Will they be slaves, partners, or aliens. Will they even want to interact, or stay hidden/retreat into a wormhole/hijack some von Neumann machines and 3D print themselves into existence?
Group/hive minds/gestalt intellects or however you want to call it. Especially when transition into or out of, or communication with it is involved. There's such a rich treasure trove of drama and speculation and philosophical discussion to be had.
How we will evolve further is such an interesting issue. Will we go with genetic augmentation? Technological implants? Living symbiotes? Will our slave workers live and breathe or whir and whizz? Or both? Will we preserve our roots or go hyper-aggressive with modifications? Will we still need our bodies, will we keep the current unified body blueprint or specialise and splinter into several subspecies? Will we have a choice, or be forced into hive minds or virtual intellects using shared robot slaves for whenever we need something done in the real world? I think an internet of minds is inevitable at some point, but what lies beyond that? Another high level concept for sure, but I love it nonetheless.
The concept of "aliens" as Lem described them most of the time. There may be some overlap with our concepts and thinking patterns, but in the end, the other side remains utterly different. Can we communicate and get along with someone that is far more than just a big titted gal in a skintight suit and some SFX makeup? What if the xenomorph in Alien just wants to cuddle, but can't express that emotion in a human-compatible way or feels threatened by our noises, brain waves, tech devices? No, but seriously, aliens that are truly alien are apparently hard to write. Threading the fine line between preposterous bullshit and humanity-with-a-kink is hard.
Zones of Thought is really cool, as is the kind of crazy smart AI in Iain M Banks. Though I think my favorite concept in sci fi is consciousness that is almost entirely alien to us: Peter Watts' Blindsight, again the AI of the Culture or the gas giant dwellers of Iain M Banks, the pilots of Dune, and even the aliens of Arrival.
Another thing that is rarely captured is the sort of existential horror of realizing how fragile we are compared to extreme conditions of space and other planets. The black hole in Gateway, HAL murdering Poole and resisting Bowman's return and the overall imagery of the Discovery against Jupiter, and the water planet in Interstellar gave me that feeling.
Another thing that is rarely captured is the sort of existential horror of realizing how fragile we are compared to extreme conditions of space and other planets. The black hole in Gateway, HAL murdering Poole and resisting Bowman's return and the overall imagery of the Discovery against Jupiter, and the water planet in Interstellar gave me that feeling.
More_Badass
Member
Is Annihilation supposed to be a homage to Lems Eden? Because Ive only read the first chapter of Eden at the moment and there are lot of elements that seem reminiscent
I don't know why, but this thread has made me want to watch Alien Planet again. Or The Future Is Wild. Or Extraterrestrial. Getting off topic here.
Anyway, an amendment to my previous post: exploration of alien worlds, and first contact. So much that could go wrong. Extremely fascinating.
Anyway, an amendment to my previous post: exploration of alien worlds, and first contact. So much that could go wrong. Extremely fascinating.
ThusZarathustra
Member
If you like the idea of generation ship, you might like the inverse of the concept done by Peter Watts in his "fiblet" series The Sunflower Saga.
It's in short story form and will be combined into a doorstop book when done, but the premise surrounds who builds those ancient galactic gates we always see in sci-fi. Imagine if humans, going at relativistic speeds, built them, going into hibernation for millions of years between gate builds as the universe winds down around them, and the meaning of being human dissappears ever further into the rear-view mirror of cosmic time.
It's a personal favorite, and most of the "fiblets" can be found on Watt's blog.
I'd start with this one. If you like the concept and/or the writing, I'd recommend exploring his blog and then picking up Blindsight and Echopraxia, his most recent novels, about consciousness vs intelligence, and aspects of post-humanism, including hive-minds, respectively.
It's in short story form and will be combined into a doorstop book when done, but the premise surrounds who builds those ancient galactic gates we always see in sci-fi. Imagine if humans, going at relativistic speeds, built them, going into hibernation for millions of years between gate builds as the universe winds down around them, and the meaning of being human dissappears ever further into the rear-view mirror of cosmic time.
It's a personal favorite, and most of the "fiblets" can be found on Watt's blog.
I'd start with this one. If you like the concept and/or the writing, I'd recommend exploring his blog and then picking up Blindsight and Echopraxia, his most recent novels, about consciousness vs intelligence, and aspects of post-humanism, including hive-minds, respectively.
Vandermeer says no according to good reads, but the fact you drew the same conclusion others have probably means that both authors come from similar ideological foundations.
Magic Mushroom
Member
I adore Peter Watts. He's a great writer who puts his knowledge of biology to good work.
His books are the very definition of bleak, but his writing really resonates with me.
ThusZarathustra
Member
He is by far my favorite contemporary sci-fi writer. I don't think he's all that bleak, honestly, but I'm a huge fan of the lilt of his writing and how he can weave in as-close-to-real science as he can manage within the confines of a high concept.
Blindsight blew me away, and I think Sunflowers is brilliant in both concept and execution so far.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
Death of personality as a punishment for crime is one I see underutilized but is quite good for setting up compelling stories.
Earthbound64
Banned
Black holes have always fascinated me, all the way back to elementary school.
I really should be have an astrophysicist.
They really can serve as a great "gateway" to various fiction concepts too.
I really should be have an astrophysicist.
They really can serve as a great "gateway" to various fiction concepts too.
Monocle
Member
Culture Minds, godlike machines who oversee/administrate a post-scarcity spacefaring society, satisfying every need and desire of their human and alien wardsall while partaking of new frontiers of existence in a complex of fantastical simulated universes that they call Infinite Fun Space.
For more on this, read Excession by Ian M. Banks. Better yet, read the whole Culture series (minus Inversions) in release order.
For more on this, read Excession by Ian M. Banks. Better yet, read the whole Culture series (minus Inversions) in release order.
The Shadow
Member
I really liked the sleeves in Altered Carbon, and I really enjoyed how the author even played around with the idea himself, like when Takeshi "cloned" himself, and even noted the differences between the two different Takeshi's, because one was in love with another character, and the other Takeshi was not because the hormones were different.
Yeah the whole idea of biological memetics between the various sleeves was super cool.
Anyone read the other two books? I've heard rather mixed things about them. Worth a read?
Auto-Reply
Member
It was weirder stuff like the Dark City concept and the Matrix, something creating a believable illusion for humans to live inside of... now, after seeing more stuff about the double slit experiment and how that could translate into a virtual "real" world for us I have to say it's reality itself that has become my favorite science fiction concept. Doesn't get any crazier than that.
The Shadow
Member
I read all three. Outside of Takeshi, they're pretty different. Altered Carbon was like a hard-boiled detective novel. Broken Angels reminded me a lot of Michael Crichton's Sphere. Still pretty good but the story and feel was different. Woken Furies was the weakest book. It was the last book I read and the one I remember the least. The most interesting part was that Takeshi was again copied, so he's being pursued by a younger, more ruthless version of himself.
Sounds more interesting than it is though. They never really face off until the very end and even then, it's just so anti-climatic and disappointing
Broken Angels is worth a read but you could pass Woken Angels pretty easy. They're very loose sequels in the sense that they don't really continue a larger over-arching story, they just share the main character and that's about it.
viciouskillersquirrel
Member
I love generation ships so much, I watched Knights of Sidonia twice. It wasn't even that good. I'm just starved for content.
Fiasco should be later in the line, as it has some elements that point to earlier books. Read the Ijon Tichy and Pirx the Pilot short story collections first.
Memoirs is also not a intro to Lem, I'd recommend reading his more accessible books first to get to know his idiosyncrasies.
I'd recommend Solaris, The Invincible, The Star Diaries (The Seventh Voyage is one of the funniest things I have ever read in SF) and the Cyberiad (I hold Lem as THE preeminent writer of robots in SF. Get bent, Asimov)
Stephen Baxter: Manifold: Time series, Ring.
More_Badass
Member
If you like more sci-fi noir, check out the Kop series. Its kind of pulpy and gritty, but the world is the real star. The stories are set on a planet where the colonists traveled there manually to start a prosperous future, but by the time they arrived and settled, tech back on Earth had advanced and the resources on the planet had become obsolete. So it became a swampy forgotten crime-infested backwater colony, where more high tech offworlders come to indulge in vices and shady dealings.
Wyndstryker
Member
Advanced civilizations that loses technology and is rediscovering ruins with said technology. The whole back story behind why they lost the technology and how they return to it is always a fun story.
Speaking of bleak, I finished Cixin Liu's Death's End (3rd in the Three Body Problem) this summer, and holy shit. WH40k has been supplanted as the bleakest science fiction universe.
Kotetsu534
Member
- Super immersive VR MMOs and their consequences for real world relationships and behaviour. I.e. whole worlds with quests, governance systems, tribes, recognised achievement systems, immersive to a degree far beyond anything yet known, but each avatar in that world corresponds to a known individual in the real world. Would people "go native", achieve notoriety for their achievements in that space, lose friends due to betrayals in the VR world?
- Not really sci-fi, but the His Dark Materials scenario where everyone has a familiar that is both a separate entity and part of themselves. Do people behave differently when they're accompanied by such a creature? What if it's attacked, or you are separated (Pullman's solution is drastic)? Is loneliness unknown in such a realm? Can it become more knowledgeable and intelligent than you? Do different personalities form different kinds of relationships with their familiars, such that for one person his might be obedient and subservient, while another's is free-spirited and playful, while another's is a natural leader? How are friendships and sexual relationships impacted?
- Not really sci-fi, but the His Dark Materials scenario where everyone has a familiar that is both a separate entity and part of themselves. Do people behave differently when they're accompanied by such a creature? What if it's attacked, or you are separated (Pullman's solution is drastic)? Is loneliness unknown in such a realm? Can it become more knowledgeable and intelligent than you? Do different personalities form different kinds of relationships with their familiars, such that for one person his might be obedient and subservient, while another's is free-spirited and playful, while another's is a natural leader? How are friendships and sexual relationships impacted?
Not sure actually. I guess right now I'd be more interested in stuff that uses interesting aspects of actual astronomy -- ideas for alien planets that could plausibly exist according to what we currently know. One example while be eyeball planets -- these are "earth-like" planets where one side always faces the sun, so one side is really hot in perpetual daylight and the other side is in perpetual freezing darkness, but in the "twilight" zone there may exist an area where an earth-like environment is possible. Has there ever been any sci-fi story that has these? Another example is what a water planet would actually be like according to astronomers. Most people think of them as rocky planets where the entire surface is covered by water, but astronomers believe there may exist planets a much more significant portion of mass of which is composed of H2O -- literally giant balls of H2O floating in space, in different states of matter depending on how far into the atmosphere you travel. The air would be mostly water vapor, which would turn to a global ocean at a certain point, and this ocean could be many tens of miles deep (compared to Earth's Challenger Deep which is only six and a half miles deep), after which you reach a layer where the immense pressure turns the water to ice. Has any sci-fi story done that type of water planet?
I'd also like to know what "realistic" views sci-fi stories have taken in regards to why anyone would actually want to invade Earth. This is a pretty old paper I read on the subject but it seems to cover a lot of bases as to why typical sci-fi assumptions would be wrong. Basically, just about any resource we have on Earth is plentiful elsewhere in the Solar System and indeed in the galaxy, and would be much easier to get outside our atmosphere. There may be a handful of specific materials that occur more readily on Earth. The paper assumes that the most likely scenario might be basically Watership Down, where the aliens don't even go out of their way to be malevolent, but we're just in the way.
Lastly, is it common to see sci-fi stories set entirely inside one solar system with very fast but still STL speeds? It's said that if the EM drive every works it could make traveling to a different planet in the Solar System similar to what it was like traveling across the ocean 200 years ago. I'd like to see someone to a Master & Commander-style story with that premise.
I'd also like to know what "realistic" views sci-fi stories have taken in regards to why anyone would actually want to invade Earth. This is a pretty old paper I read on the subject but it seems to cover a lot of bases as to why typical sci-fi assumptions would be wrong. Basically, just about any resource we have on Earth is plentiful elsewhere in the Solar System and indeed in the galaxy, and would be much easier to get outside our atmosphere. There may be a handful of specific materials that occur more readily on Earth. The paper assumes that the most likely scenario might be basically Watership Down, where the aliens don't even go out of their way to be malevolent, but we're just in the way.
Lastly, is it common to see sci-fi stories set entirely inside one solar system with very fast but still STL speeds? It's said that if the EM drive every works it could make traveling to a different planet in the Solar System similar to what it was like traveling across the ocean 200 years ago. I'd like to see someone to a Master & Commander-style story with that premise.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Everything about how The Culture is set up, its the single most interesting look at what true post scarcity might look like, and I'm always impressed by how Banks was able to depict a culture who's moral and ethical considerations operated on different axies from our own. On the positive side this meant depicting a society in which almost everyone was friendly and helpful because there was literally no reason not to be, i.e you could ask a sentient spaceship to go ten years out of its way to drop you off on an obscure planet and it would say "sure, why not" because when you're functionally immortal 10 years doesn't cost you anything.
But then you get into things like the policy of interfering with lesser developed societies because statistical analyses show that "it works out somewhat more often then it goes bad" or the ways in which cultural norms encourage people to self-apply personality altering drugs to be better people and its not that those are even wrong so much as they're just beyond the scope of what we can practically grapple with right now
EDIT: I mean fuck, one Culture novel features a galactic war over the fact that various societies with concepts of hell banded together to create a meta-hell simulation to which they actually condemn sinful citizens as a subplot
But then you get into things like the policy of interfering with lesser developed societies because statistical analyses show that "it works out somewhat more often then it goes bad" or the ways in which cultural norms encourage people to self-apply personality altering drugs to be better people and its not that those are even wrong so much as they're just beyond the scope of what we can practically grapple with right now
EDIT: I mean fuck, one Culture novel features a galactic war over the fact that various societies with concepts of hell banded together to create a meta-hell simulation to which they actually condemn sinful citizens as a subplot
More_Badass
Member
Have you read Last and First Men? Written in 1930, it's a retrospective historical account of humanity starting in 1930 and ending two billion years later, describing the social, cultural, and physiological changes that mankind goes through across various civilizations.
Thanks for the examples.
I really need to read the Culture books. It gets so many mentions in sci-fi circles, and even gets several mentions in this thread alone!
I have not. Sounds fascinating! Even moreso for having been written nearly a century ago.
Seems like I have a lot of reading to catch up with in general. Too much time spent playing games and not enough reading fiction. I shall rectify that soon enough...
Fancyarcher
Member
Worlds beyond world, or planets that aren't what they seem to be. That's always my favorite kind of science, especially since the later, can be very horrorish in nature. Can't think of any examples off the top of my mind, but it was the first thing that came to mind.
More_Badass
Member
Yeah, it's really interesting. The first chapter or so is basically alt-history because WW2 hadn't even happened yet so the author's speculation for the rest of the 1900s and 21st century is quite different from reality
And genetic engineering begins playing a factor in later civilizations, from eugenics to extreme environmental adaptation depending on the society, which is pretty amazing considering the book was published in 1930 and the actual term "genetic engineering" didn't exist until the 1950s
elrechazado
Banned
I like when sci fi deals with issues of relativity and time dilation. The forever war being a classic example
First contact but even more than that, everything that follows. Does anyone have any recommendations on stories that largely focus on the events directly or at least relatively soon after a first contact event? Preferably ones where conflict doesn't arise from humanity having to fight for their survival (there's more than enough of those kinds of stories around already) but from having to adapt as they are introduced to a much larger world. There were some elements of this in The Long Way to a Small, Angry Planet that I really liked. Basically anything that shows how humanity might do when they become part of a galactic community.
Are you me? All of those make my pants tight.
Totally alien aliens. Sentient clouds of gas, coral that can think and communicate, aliens with nothing in common with humanity and dealing with those issues. Embassytown by Chinal Mieville deals with an alien world with a species that has two mouths and requires duos of incredibly similar humans to mimic their language so they can be communicated with.
More_Badass
Member
Unorthodox first contact like Arrival, where the aliens are truly alien and just figuring out to communicate and understand their psychology is a struggle
Which is why I'm so excited to have discovered Stanislaw Lem today. Eden, Fiasco, and His Master's Voice sound perfect in how they tackle those ideas.
Which is why I'm so excited to have discovered Stanislaw Lem today. Eden, Fiasco, and His Master's Voice sound perfect in how they tackle those ideas.
Mieville's world building and ideas are just amazing. I started Perdido Street Station recently, and I'm itching to get to The Scar and Embassytown
Stephen Baxter touches on themes of the far future and deep time quite a bit in his works, though they usually aren't the focus of the story. Two short stories that focus specifically on the end of the universe are Last Contact (actually about the Big Rip rather than the heat death) and In the Abyss of Time (about time-traveling into the heat death). Both of them are part of the Last and First Contacts short story collection, and well worth the price of admission in my opinion.
He also wrote Manifold: Time, which involves the heat death of the universe and attempts to survive/escape it.
This, holy shit.
This is mine as well.
I've always been fascinated in abandoned places, I find a haunting beauty in them, and the idea of coming across planets and places where the civilization vanished for various reasons, leaving things in ruins, hits me just right.
It makes you wonder what could have caused it, how it looked in its heyday, and so on.
More_Badass
Member
Oooh, I think I will. Subbed. Thanks!
Lyon N. Laap
Member
The many types of different FTL travel have always been my among my favorite parts of background for any science fiction universe, because it's so intrinsic to their societies and warfare.
The common and quick hyperspace of Star Wars which travels along charted "lanes". Slipspace travel from Halo, which is so pinpoint the Covenant can jump to within an atom's distance of their target, and the differences in scale between the Forerunner's and the current races (specifically with reconciliation). The Warp of 40k, pernicious and fickle and slow with daemons and the possibility of being lost out of time. Shock points from The Last Angel and their difficulty with large gravitational bodies.
The mechanics of their travel, how difficult or slow it is, how common it is to have it, how the society has adapted to its specific quirks. I love it.
The common and quick hyperspace of Star Wars which travels along charted "lanes". Slipspace travel from Halo, which is so pinpoint the Covenant can jump to within an atom's distance of their target, and the differences in scale between the Forerunner's and the current races (specifically with reconciliation). The Warp of 40k, pernicious and fickle and slow with daemons and the possibility of being lost out of time. Shock points from The Last Angel and their difficulty with large gravitational bodies.
The mechanics of their travel, how difficult or slow it is, how common it is to have it, how the society has adapted to its specific quirks. I love it.
More_Badass
Member
Huh, just learned that Olaf Stapledon (Last and First Men, Star Maker) was the person who first imagined the idea that would become known as Dyson spheres. Dyson even said in an interviews that "Stapledon spheres" would have been the better name for them
RedHoodedOwl
Member
Sentient androids/robots and their interaction with humanity has always caught my attention.
I like the concept of intelligent species with multiple-stage life cycles.
I don't really know of many stories that use this concept, though. The only one I can think of is the book "piggies" from Ender's Game. A description of their lifecycle is apparently a spoiler, so I'll tag it:
Unfortuantely, the actual plot of the book didn't interest me at all, so I haven't read the book.
Also, I'd love to see stories about intelligent species with huge variations in body type between individuals, like ants on earth, or colonial organisms like pyrosomes or portugese man o' wars.
I don't really know of many stories that use this concept, though. The only one I can think of is the book "piggies" from Ender's Game. A description of their lifecycle is apparently a spoiler, so I'll tag it:
they start life as unintelligent grub-like creatures living in the bark of a tree. After leaving the tree, they become intelligent, talking human-like creatures. Finally, after death, they become super-intelligent, telepathic tree-like creatures.
Unfortuantely, the actual plot of the book didn't interest me at all, so I haven't read the book.
Also, I'd love to see stories about intelligent species with huge variations in body type between individuals, like ants on earth, or colonial organisms like pyrosomes or portugese man o' wars.
BKatastrophe
Member
Memory manipulation is a big one for me. The existential issues and scientific means dealing with it just fascinate me.
Man-made AIs, and of course, cloning. Very basic, but the existential and philosophical questions posed are endlessly fascinating.
Pre-crime. Incredibly simple, but I always enjoy the question of, "if you absolutely knew, would you?" I especially enjoy how the pre-crime is established, the extremes it goes to, the means of the pre-crime (pre-cogs, psychics, AI algorithms), and how they inevitably become corrupted systems.
The price of utopia. By that I mean a future in which humanity has achieved a perfect utopia, but there is always a price. A price that ends up leading to the utopia's downfall when hubris causes society to forget to pay it. I love that shit.
A very recent one brought to my attention, but the magnitude to which social media has been integrated into society and dictates society. Black Mirror is the big one for me when it comes to this topic. Even Community has an episode on it.
Alternate dimension/reality/timeline shenanigans are always a blast.
Keep in mind, these are topics I love, but I haven't watched or read everything dealing with these. I just really enjoy them when they come up.
Man-made AIs, and of course, cloning. Very basic, but the existential and philosophical questions posed are endlessly fascinating.
Pre-crime. Incredibly simple, but I always enjoy the question of, "if you absolutely knew, would you?" I especially enjoy how the pre-crime is established, the extremes it goes to, the means of the pre-crime (pre-cogs, psychics, AI algorithms), and how they inevitably become corrupted systems.
The price of utopia. By that I mean a future in which humanity has achieved a perfect utopia, but there is always a price. A price that ends up leading to the utopia's downfall when hubris causes society to forget to pay it. I love that shit.
A very recent one brought to my attention, but the magnitude to which social media has been integrated into society and dictates society. Black Mirror is the big one for me when it comes to this topic. Even Community has an episode on it.
Alternate dimension/reality/timeline shenanigans are always a blast.
Keep in mind, these are topics I love, but I haven't watched or read everything dealing with these. I just really enjoy them when they come up.