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Hip hop was better in the 90s.

Neith

Banned
No it wasn't. Everything you listed is so corny now.

It's okay to have absolutely horrid taste. I'm gonna say you actually have not listened to much in your life.

While OPs list is not mine and has no Public Enemy therefore it is invalid, the list is still fairly good.

Also, it's hard for some people to think of Stankonia and Common's first couple in the 2000s as proper albums of the age, but they are shining examples of the 2000s.

What they didn't do is produce those artists though, and that is the problem with the 2000s. Past a couple of dudes it didn't really produce all that much excitement IMO.

The 90s now produced so many dudes, but then again you could say that was the 80s hence people refer to the late 80s up to the mid-90s as the golden age because it by far produced the most long lasting names in the business. All in my opinion I guess, but part of that is objectively true.

And even crazier you could say it was the 60s or 70s that ACTUALLY produced these kids.

And so it goes with rock music too. What I will say is rock is 5x shittier than the good hip hop coming out these days. Shit, I can barely name good bands these days that will exist in ten years lol.

A lot of the big names in bands of the last 15 years like Arcade Fire are only alright IMO. Not a chance they compare to the 80s and 90s crews. Not a single fuck will be given about most of this class in rock.
 

bionic77

Member
I don't know if I agree hip hop was better in the 90s.

Gangsta rap is fucking embarrassing for me to go back and listen to.

Life was definitely better back then. Our worries in the 90s compared to now seem like a joke...
 

Neith

Banned
2000's has Kanye alone that makes it the best

When all is said and done nothing Kanye has done will amount to something like It Takes a Nation.... you can take that to the bank bro.

He is about the most famous personality these days, and he has some good stuff, but his lyrics are trite as hell for the most part.

I don't know if I agree hip hop was better in the 90s.

Gangsta rap is fucking embarrassing for me to go back and listen to.

Life was definitely better back then. Our worries in the 90s compared to now seem like a joke...

That's good because it wasn't all gangsta rap. And at least that gangsta rap was real compared to the gangsta rap we have now lol.
 

cordy

Banned
Tbh, in today's hip-hop you have EVERYTHING from the past plus the stuff from the 00s and 10s so yeah today is better. If OP means "back in the day most great hip-hop projects debuted" then that's debatable but if you wanna be serious you've got more music than ever with more avenues than ever to listen to said music so today automatically wins.
 

Neith

Banned
seriously though, this is like people arguing that games in the 90's were better than they are now

sure, you can make top 10 lists that look mighty because of both quality and nostalgia but in both cases the current landscape is great it's just that a lot of the quality content is coming from places that it wasn't before. the independent artists in both areas have been ballooning. is it hard to hone in on some stuff on steam and bandcamp? yeah, sure. but there is so much quality shit out there to be discovered and typically people are pretty good about circling around the stuff they find that's quality.

It's actually not like this in any way. In the 90s videogames were in their infancy, where the infancy was related more to technology than anything else. If anything technology has actually dimmed the talent of dudes today.

And so far we have very very few albums in the last ten years that could even speak in the name of the greats from the late 80s and 90s IMO.

Tbh, in today's hip-hop you have EVERYTHING from the past plus the stuff from the 00s and 10s so yeah today is better. If OP means "back in the day most great hip-hop projects debuted" then that's debatable but if you wanna be serious you've got more music than ever with more avenues than ever to listen to said music so today automatically wins.

Your whole point doesn't make any sense. Yeah, there is 10x throwaway trash now with every dude on a corner hyping a mixtape, but that doesn't mean you are pumping out all time classics either dude.

People keep referring to all this great shit available, and yet no one is buying this great shit, and no one has heard of half of it.

I'm sorry but our definitions of great are a bit different here.

The Public of Enemy of today is not the Public Enemy of yesterday.
 

bionic77

Member
When all is said and done nothing Kanye has done will amount to something like It Takes a Nation.... you can take that to the bank bro.

He is about the most famous personality these days, and he has some good stuff, but his lyrics are trite as hell for the most part.



That's good because it wasn't all gangsta rap. And at least that gangsta rap was real compared to the gangsta rap we have now lol.
It was all gangsta rap for me.

I did love Biggie, Pac, Snoop etc as a teen. But a lot of that stuff is so juvenile now if not downright offense (it ain't no fun is a gross song).
 
2000s-2010s:

Coloring Book
Acid Rap
The Money Store
Take Care
MMLP
College Dropout
Late Registration
Graduation
MBDTF
Yeezus
Section 80
Good Kid Maad City
To Pimp A Butterfly
Damn
Madvillany
Run The Jewels 1-3
Flower Boy
Pinata
Atrocity Exhibition

Just to name a few...
 

cordy

Banned

Your whole point doesn't make any sense.
Yeah, there is 10x throwaway trash now with every dude on a corner hyping a mixtape, but that doesn't mean you are pumping out all time classics either dude.

People keep referring to all this great shit available, and yet no one is buying this great shit, and no one has heard of half of it.

I'm sorry but our definitions of great are a bit different here.

The Public of Enemy of today is not the Public Enemy of yesterday.

It does make sense.

The 90s = You have all the music from the 90s at your disposal
Today = You have all the music from the 90s + 00s + 10s at your disposal

You literally have more great pieces of hip-hop under your fingertips with more avenues to listen to that music. Sure, you have more negative music but great music? It's not comparable because amount-wise you have the greatness from the 90s plus the greatness from the other eras considering that's when the music debuted. It's not a debate.

People disagreeing basically sound like old heads who don't listen to today's music and only go by what's on radio as if the 90s didn't have bad radio tracks as well.
 

hughesta

Banned
There's always good hip-hop. I'm no fan of the sound that's popular now but that doesn't mean trap music is inherently without value - any genre of music is going to be oversaturated with trash. Trap influence can make for some really interesting stuff - see Death Grips' Come and Go or Gorillaz' Saturnz Barz

there's plenty of good hip-hop music being made and released right now, it's just that the stuff that's getting a lot of play is less enjoyable than it's ever been imo.
 

cordy

Banned
And also I wanna say that for the first time ever in music history, in 2017 hip-hop officially became the most popular genre in music. Yall might not like what you hear but that's not to say that most others agree with you. We still have a lot of great music coming out, it's just not the same as in the 90s.
 

Neith

Banned
It does make sense.

The 90s = You have all the music from the 90s at your disposal
Today = You have all the music from the 90s + 00s + 10s at your disposal

You literally have more great pieces of hip-hop under your fingertips with more avenues to listen to that music. Sure, you have more negative music but great music? It's not comparable because amount-wise you have the greatness from the 90s plus the greatness from the other eras considering that's when the music debuted. It's not a debate.

People disagreeing basically sound like old heads who don't listen to today's music and only go by what's on radio as if the 90s didn't have bad radio tracks as well.

That isn't how this works dude. We are comparing eras. Kind of like rock in the 60s and 70s is basically untouchable, and only the late 80s/90s revitalization could even hope to match it.

We aren't comparing the sum totals of everything. No one is doing that here.
 
2000s-2010s:

Coloring Book
Acid Rap
The Money Store
Take Care
MMLP
College Dropout
Late Registration
Graduation
MBDTF
Yeezus
Section 80
Good Kid Maad City
To Pimp A Butterfly
Damn
Madvillany
Run The Jewels 1-3
Flower Boy
Pinata
Atrocity Exhibition

Just to name a few...

Hell Hath No Fury
Stakonia
Vaudeville Villain
Mm.. Food
Purple Haze
Diplomatic Immunity
Below the Heavens
Her Favourite Color
Boy Meets World
Be
Food & Liquor
The Cool
The Blueprint
The Black Album
American Gangster
Da Drought 3
Dedication 2
No Ceilings
Pilot Talk 1-3
LiveLoveA$AP
Get Rich or Die Tryin
Supreme Clientele
Since I Left You
Donuts
Fantastic Vol. 2

etc.
 

cordy

Banned
That isn't how this works dude. We are comparing eras. Kind of like rock in the 60s and 70s is basically untouchable, and only the late 80s/90s revitalization could even hope to match it.

We aren't comparing the sum totals of everything. No one is doing that here.

Tbh it just sounds like oldheads talking about their music being better than others of today. For example like I stated in my previous post, for the first time in history hip-hop's the most popular genre in music, the 90s didn't have that. Secondly, you said that nothing even comes close to ITAN even though albums such as

Kendrick_Lamar_-_To_Pimp_a_Butterfly.png


realeased. Come. On. Now.

That's oldheadness talking and honestly it makes it harder to listen to posts saying that nothing from today comes close to the past. The reality is yes there's a lot of bad music but that's not to say the 90s didn't have bad music nor is that to say that beat-wise the beats haven't improved, mixing that's not to say that hasn't improved. Flow-wise? Overall a lot of it is debatable. That whole "90s was better in hip-hop" thing can be deconstructed if you look at everything besides lyrics because lyrically? I agree. Everything else? Most of those beats don't hold up today. Most of those flows don't hold up today in the early 90s. Most of that mixing isn't as great as today's.

And yeah I heavily stick to my point. Today's music is better because you've got the greatness of the previous eras plus what comes out today. If you wanna do ratio-wise then you've gotta mention how the beats sound, how the mixing is, melodies, there's a lot to draw from but I get a feeling you're mostly talking about lyrics in this case.

Overall I stick to my point. I don't even think you've listened to the great projects from the 10s either. We need to make you a list and you come back to us after you've listened to these projects.
 

VeeP

Member
2000s-2010s:

Coloring Book
Acid Rap
The Money Store
Take Care
MMLP
College Dropout
Late Registration
Graduation
MBDTF
Yeezus
Section 80
Good Kid Maad City
To Pimp A Butterfly
Damn
Madvillany
Run The Jewels 1-3
Flower Boy
Pinata
Atrocity Exhibition

Just to name a few...

Pretty solid list. Some others I really liked, Black Album, The Blueprint, Paper Trail, The Eminem Show, Marshall Mathers LP, Food & Liquor, 2014 FHD etc. There's probably a lot more I'm forgetting tbh.
 
Do you want recommendations from that era or new albums if the OP is your taste?

90s recommendations
Mobb Deep
Gangstarr
Busta Rhymes When Disaster Strikes and ELE
Phoaroh Monch
Mos Def
Heltah Skeltah
Three 6 Mafia - Mystic Stylez
Raekwon - only built 4 cuban linx
Ghostface - Ironman
Method - Tical
Gza - Liquid Swordz

Modern Recommendations
MC Eiht - Which Way Iz West (he's 90s but this new album is dope)
2 Chainz - pretty Girls Like Trap
Azizi Gibson - memoirs of the reaper
Brockhampton - saturation i and ii
Earthgang - Rags
Asap twelvy - 12
Styles P dropped 2 dope albums this year

I did not realize Phoarohe Monch was a 90s rapper until I saw him in a Murs history video.
 
Hip-hop seems to have degressed overall. Not only in music quality in the mainstream, but other facets of the genre just seemed to have dipped. DJing is less prominent, graffiti is non-existent, fashion I think has gotten worse along with dance. I feel that battling has risen though or that might just be because I have the internet and can see more of it.
 
2000s-2010s:

Coloring Book
Acid Rap
The Money Store
Take Care
MMLP
College Dropout
Late Registration
Graduation
MBDTF
Yeezus
Section 80
Good Kid Maad City
To Pimp A Butterfly
Damn
Madvillany
Run The Jewels 1-3
Flower Boy
Pinata
Atrocity Exhibition

Just to name a few...

No Musta Thug Isolation and Race Music?
 
No, it wasn't.

Hip-hop is forever changing, and is a young man's game.

There's so much crazy 'out there' stuff now. People are experimenting with, and pushing the boundaries of hip-hop in ways that just weren't possible in the 90s. There's a reason it overtook rock music completely as the defining genre of rebellious youth. It's fresh.

This man speaks the truth.

I love rock music, but that shit is stilted lately. Hip hop is still constantly changing, evolving, it may not sound as good to you but at least it's not stale
 

cordy

Banned
Hip-hop is forever changing, and is a young man's game.

To this I'd say it's mostly a young man's game but if you're older and you've got talent then you'll definitely be making it huge.

RTJ broke the code when they blew up. Even though they were known, when they came together in their late 30s they broke boundaries. I just checked and realized they're 42 as well. I love seeing older artists/producers/musicians really taking off in their older ages. Hell I love when artists make it in their late 20s/early 30s. All those years struggling build a great base while these younger ones end up fucking themselves over with deals and bad business.
 

Dynomutt

Member
This man speaks the truth.

I love rock music, but that shit is stilted lately. Hip hop is still constantly changing, evolving, it may not sound as good to you but at least it's not stale

Hip Hop today to me is like pizza joints. Back in the day you had a few and the quality between them was really good. These days with so many more pizza places it's still good as a pizza lover but it's few and far between when I eat a pizza and say wow this is really good top notch pizza. Not to say that they don't exist.

I will say each era has its gems though. 90's, 00's and even today just comes down to overall preference. If I had to choose an era I would choose the one that most reflects who I am.
 
As much as I love, love, LOVE newer artists like Kendrick and Chance, mainstream's consistent use of rap cliches involving swearing and misogyny are getting eye-rolling. I feel like it's all just used for gratuitous, pandering edge.
 

Neith

Banned
Tbh it just sounds like oldheads talking about their music being better than others of today. For example like I stated in my previous post, for the first time in history hip-hop's the most popular genre in music, the 90s didn't have that. Secondly, you said that nothing even comes close to ITAN even though albums such as

Kendrick_Lamar_-_To_Pimp_a_Butterfly.png


realeased. Come. On. Now.

That's oldheadness talking and honestly it makes it harder to listen to posts saying that nothing from today comes close to the past. The reality is yes there's a lot of bad music but that's not to say the 90s didn't have bad music nor is that to say that beat-wise the beats haven't improved, mixing that's not to say that hasn't improved. Flow-wise? Overall a lot of it is debatable. That whole "90s was better in hip-hop" thing can be deconstructed if you look at everything besides lyrics because lyrically? I agree. Everything else? Most of those beats don't hold up today. Most of those flows don't hold up today in the early 90s. Most of that mixing isn't as great as today's.

And yeah I heavily stick to my point. Today's music is better because you've got the greatness of the previous eras plus what comes out today. If you wanna do ratio-wise then you've gotta mention how the beats sound, how the mixing is, melodies, there's a lot to draw from but I get a feeling you're mostly talking about lyrics in this case.

Overall I stick to my point. I don't even think you've listened to the great projects from the 10s either. We need to make you a list and you come back to us after you've listened to these projects.

It's a great album. But in no way whatsoever is Pimp better than It Takes a Nation to me. That record is great, it really is. But it just doesn't make me crazy like Nation does. It doesn't have that hardcore aesthetic that I like.

I probably should not have said no album comes close. Because there are a few that come close.

It's like dude, you are going to have a very hard time convincing me anyone is better than Stevie Wonder in the funk and soul/R&B department today.

I'm not born in the 60s and 70s, so don't tell me I'm some oldhead because that is bullshit. All I care about is the music.

As for beats I can agree in certain circumstances, but Nation and albums like that are timeless to me and I would not change a thing.
 

cordy

Banned
It's a great album. But in no way whatsoever is Pimp better than It Takes a Nation to me.

I probably should not have said no album comes close. Because there are a few that come close.

Man and that's your opinion. You saying this is great. Idk what else I can say but hey that in itself is progression so we're good
 

Neith

Banned
Man and that's your opinion. You saying this is great. Idk what else I can say but hey that in itself is progression so we're good

My main I added back in. It's the same thing with people like Stevie Wonder. You aren't even going to convince me that funk and r&b/soul was not in its heyday in the 70s.

I was not born in the 70s.
 

Neith

Banned
Also, we mostly been talking about black music because that is it pretty much most important, but you still got the Beastie Boys in the 90s, and there ain't any white boys even close to that shit these days.

Several of their albums are classics. My favorite might be Paul's Boutique from 89'. Creativity there was actually innovative for the entire scene.
 
Golden age for my hiphop tastes would be 1987-1997.

Shit like KRS-ONE, Eric B. & Rakim, Public Enemy, Big Daddy Kane, Slick Rick, NWA and all members solo stuff, Mobb Deep, Wu Tang & most members solo work, Nas, Too $hort, Pac, Biggie, Bone Thugs, DOC, Tha Dogg Pound, some Jay Z and Scarface.

Anything after '97 would mostly be Eminem, Outkast, Game and some Kendrick.

I was huge into the rap scene during middle school and high school but I rediscovered classic rock in my 20's and sort of fell off hiphop for awhile.

I'd like to try discovering some new artists but don't really know where to start aside from Kendrick.
 
Golden age for my hiphop tastes would be 1987-1997.

Shit like KRS-ONE, Eric B. & Rakim, Public Enemy, Big Daddy Kane, Slick Rick, NWA and all members solo stuff, Mobb Deep, Wu Tang & most members solo work, Nas, Too $hort, Pac, Biggie, Bone Thugs, DOC, Tha Dogg Pound, some Jay Z and Scarface.

Anything after '97 would mostly be Eminem, Outkast, Game and some Kendrick.

I was huge into the rap scene during middle school and high school but I rediscovered classic rock in my 20's and sort of fell off hiphop for awhile.

I'd like to try discovering some new artists but don't really know where to start aside from Kendrick.

I made you a Spotify playlist real quick. I can add more to it if you want.
 
Golden age for my hiphop tastes would be 1987-1997.

Shit like KRS-ONE, Eric B. & Rakim, Public Enemy, Big Daddy Kane, Slick Rick, NWA and all members solo stuff, Mobb Deep, Wu Tang & most members solo work, Nas, Too $hort, Pac, Biggie, Bone Thugs, DOC, Tha Dogg Pound, some Jay Z and Scarface.

Anything after '97 would mostly be Eminem, Outkast, Game and some Kendrick.

I was huge into the rap scene during middle school and high school but I rediscovered classic rock in my 20's and sort of fell off hiphop for awhile.

I'd like to try discovering some new artists but don't really know where to start aside from Kendrick.
Agreed.

Though I've really loved the 2000s works from OutKast, Kanye, Little Brother, Drake, Weezy, KDot and a few others (and this year has been better than a lot of recent years), the albums and hits that came out between 87-99 continue to stand the test of time 20+ years later.

I really do love all of those 2000s+ artists, but I'll take the following collection of artists and their works over the current pool of artists every day and twice on Sunday:

Tribe
Mobb Deep
Wu and all those legendary 90s group and solo albums
prime Snoop
prime Dre
hungry Jay-Z
prime The Roots
De La Soul
Big Pun
Nore
Jr. MAFIA
The Dog Pound
Too Short
The Fugees
prime OutKast (Aquemini, ATLiens, Southerncadillac)
Jeru Da Damaja
prime Busta
GangStarr
EPMD
Geto Boys
Naughty By Nature
The Pharcyde
prime UGK
Goodie Mob
Do Or Die
No Limit Records
Biggie and Pac
prime Cube and West Coast Connection
NWA
Hammer
Salt N Pepa
The Looniz
Onyx
Slum Village
prime Bone Thugs
Run DMC
Heavy D
LL

...and whoever else I may be missing. I mean look how long that fuckin list is. Look at it. Not to mention the fun hip-hop from artists like Sir Mix-A-Lot, Humpty, Skee-Lo, and others.


I mean, we're to the point where we get 1 really good new album per season. If we're lucky. Even then you may not be playing it 6 months later because it didn't have the kind of staying power that will last you a decade. In the 90s, classic releases used to come out monthly and sometimes more frequently than that.
 

Neith

Banned
All that gangsta shit was a fucking embarrassment. The likes of RTJ, Kendrick Lemar and Frank Ocean piss all over it.

Except the 90s was not just gangsta music. And not all of that music is embarrassing either. Jesus Lamar still has a bit of the gangsta in him lol.
 
Dreams you like Salt N Pepa? I only heard their singles and thought that shit was wack so I never bothered to listen to an album. I mean the singles are there to convince people to listen to the album.
 
I mean I like the 90's in hip-hop a lot, and can't deny the greatness of a lot of the artists, albums, and trends in production. That having been said, (and I know this will be a bit controversial to say here) a lot of those artists and albums are tainted by casual homophobia and transphobia. I'm not saying that stuff isn't still present today, but it was much more prominent in the 90s.

I'm not sure what era I would consider the golden age for rap, but I can't deny that the 90s are a strong contender.
 
I mean, we're to the point where we get 1 really good new album per season. If we're lucky. Even then you may not be playing it 6 months later because it didn't have the kind of staying power that will last you a decade. In the 90s, classic releases used to come out monthly and sometimes more frequently than that.
Do you ignore GAF Hip Hop award threads where everyone lists their favorite albums of that year? We get more than 1 good album.
 
Do you ignore GAF Hip Hop award threads where everyone lists their favorite albums of that year? We get more than 1 good album.

You need to re-read that quote if you think i said we get 1 good album.

I just need mothafuckas to both read and comprehend. The operative word is in the first damn sentence, fam. Squint and you'll see it I'm sure.
 
You need to re-read that quote if you think i said we get 1 good album.

I just need mothafuckas to both read and comprehend. The operative word is in the first damn sentence, fam. Squint and you'll see it I'm sure.

How about multiple good albums in the same seasons? The point is you make it sound like we get a good album in the spring and then have to wait till summer to get another one. Sometimes it's week after week of good stuff.
 
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