• Register
  • TOS
  • Privacy
  • @NeoGAF
  • Like

DrROBschiz
Member
(09-25-2017, 08:15 PM)
DrROBschiz's Avatar
"Your baby was born with cancer"


"Wow thats truly unfortunate that that she was born in America"
AstroNut325
Member
(09-25-2017, 08:17 PM)
AstroNut325's Avatar
Reading further in the article... The right wing opinions just keep getting worse.

Edit:
Holy sh... The cognitive dissonance... It's astounding!

F***.THESE.PEOPLE!
snap0212
Member
(09-25-2017, 08:19 PM)
Yes, it is. Other countries have figured that out like 130 years ago.
The Dutch Slayer
Member
(09-25-2017, 08:20 PM)
The Dutch Slayer's Avatar

Originally Posted by Kill3r7

No but it should be in a first world country.

It should be for every country but problem is that for a lot of countries leaders only care about themselves.
BibiMaghoo
Member
(09-25-2017, 08:20 PM)
BibiMaghoo's Avatar
It has been part of international law since at least the 60's, excusable only by a lack of resources. So yes, definitely.
smokeandmirrors
Banned
(09-25-2017, 08:21 PM)
Yep and there are a lot of things that are rights but we choose not to make them rights.
Wilsongt
Member
(09-25-2017, 08:21 PM)
Wilsongt's Avatar

Originally Posted by DrROBschiz

"Your baby was born with cancer"


"Wow thats truly unfortunate that that she was born in America"

"My thoughts and prayers are with you. I'll let my church know so they can send their thoughts and prayers. We'll pray that God heals your child. Thoughts and prayers... thoughts and prayers..."
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
(09-25-2017, 08:23 PM)
Morrigan Stark's Avatar
Yes, of course.

Only the US is still having this "debate". In civilized nations, that was answered with a resounding Yes decades ago.
NullPointer
#INTESTINAL
(09-25-2017, 08:23 PM)
NullPointer's Avatar
Its a right if we want it to be a right, and I think its pretty clear that people have made it known that in this day and age it is considered a right by most.
AnotherDayAnotherDollar
Member
(09-25-2017, 08:24 PM)
I'm not taking a position on this, but for people who say "No", do you think education is a right? If so, then why isn't healthcare? If not, then why are we paying taxes for public education (in the US)?
Dynasty
Member
(09-25-2017, 08:25 PM)
Yes.

Religous arguement for the rightwing conservative christians, Jesus healed the blind man and did not ask for anything in return. So going against Healthcare is unchristian.

Economical arguement for everyone, a strong healthy labour force is good for the economy.

Selfish arguement, arguement for anyone who doesnt want to pay for anyone else, you, your children, grandchildren could one day be poor for whatever reason and will need healthcare so it should be free.
Baron_Calamity
Member
(09-25-2017, 08:30 PM)
Baron_Calamity's Avatar
I don't feel it's a right. I'm lean towards rights being something that you have and everyone has and shouldn't be taken away. Unfortunately, health isn't one of those things that everyone has.

I do believe that it's a necessary expenditure of a capitalist economy and a primary function of a democratic government. In short, if you have either of those things and not providing health care, you are doing it wrong and ultimately your economy or government will fail. Which to be honest, I believe people against universal healthcare are actively working towards the US failing in some way.

If that isn't enough, there is enough moral and biblical support for healthcare that makes denying it indefensible.
Linkark07
Member
(09-25-2017, 08:30 PM)
Linkark07's Avatar
Of course it is a right. This shouldn't be even put on a debate. No one should be denied healthcare.
RedSparrows
Member
(09-25-2017, 08:32 PM)
RedSparrows's Avatar

Originally Posted by Baron_Calamity

I don't feel it's a right. I'm lean towards rights being something that you have and everyone has and shouldn't be taken away. Unfortunately, health isn't one of those things that everyone has.

I do believe that it's a necessary expenditure of a capitalist economy and a primary function of a democratic government. In short, if you have either of those things and not providing health care, you are doing it wrong and ultimately your economy or government will fail. Which to be honest, I believe people against universal healthcare are actively working towards the US failing in some way.

If that isn't enough, there is enough moral and biblical support for healthcare that makes denying it indefensible.

Being healthy is not a factor relevant to whether healthcare should be a right. Like being hideously stupid is not a factor relevant to, in principle, your right to an education.
Akainu
Member
(09-25-2017, 08:35 PM)
Akainu's Avatar
Of course it ...

Schattenjäger

Fucking mobile gaf
Chris1
Member
(09-25-2017, 08:35 PM)
being from the UK, absolutely

having to pay for healthcare is ridiculous, poor people shouldn't choose between eating dinner or seeking help
Chezzymann
Member
(09-25-2017, 08:37 PM)
Chezzymann's Avatar

Originally Posted by Baraka Obama

I mean I guess but this the kind of thing wealthier countries can provide them.

Im not sure if all the developed countries combined could pay for 2+ billion peoples health insurance
mullet2000
Member
(09-25-2017, 08:37 PM)
mullet2000's Avatar
Something tells me everyone who says no is upper middle class or higher.
ZackieChan
Member
(09-25-2017, 08:38 PM)
ZackieChan's Avatar

Originally Posted by Baron_Calamity

I don't feel it's a right. I'm lean towards rights being something that you have and everyone has and shouldn't be taken away. Unfortunately, health isn't one of those things that everyone has.

I do believe that it's a necessary expenditure of a capitalist economy and a primary function of a democratic government. In short, if you have either of those things and not providing health care, you are doing it wrong and ultimately your economy or government will fail. Which to be honest, I believe people against universal healthcare are actively working towards the US failing in some way.

If that isn't enough, there is enough moral and biblical support for healthcare that makes denying it indefensible.

That's basically where I'm at. Like another guy earlier in the thread, I don't really believe in "rights". But I do believe that it's the job of government to take care of shit like this.
mnannola
Member
(09-25-2017, 08:39 PM)

Originally Posted by mullet2000

Something tells me everyone who says no is upper middle class or higher.

In the article I would say that statement is wrong. The people saying no seem like lower middle class that works hard and thinks that people that don't work at all shouldn't get the same coverage as they do.
Kill3r7
Member
(09-25-2017, 08:39 PM)
Kill3r7's Avatar

Originally Posted by Baraka Obama

I mean I guess but this the kind of thing wealthier countries can provide them.

I assume this is a US centric topic. There are millions of Americans who are still uninsured. Maybe in a better world it would be possible.
Cocaloch
Member
(09-25-2017, 08:39 PM)
Cocaloch's Avatar

Originally Posted by RedSparrows

Being healthy is not a factor relevant to whether healthcare should be a right. Like being hideously stupid is not a factor relevant to, in principle, your right to an education.

You misunderstood that post. He isn't saying only the healthy deserve healthcare. He's saying the language of rights/Lockean Liberalism isn't useful here.

If healthcare is a right isn't thatgood of a question. Regardless of if it is or isn't it should be provided to all people.
pswii60
(09-25-2017, 08:41 PM)
pswii60's Avatar

Originally Posted by Chris1

being from the UK, absolutely

having to pay for healthcare is ridiculous, poor people shouldn't choose between eating dinner or seeking help

Indeed. It's crazy to think there are countries where your taxes will pay for your bin to be collected but not your healthcare.
sflufan
Banned
(09-25-2017, 08:42 PM)
sflufan's Avatar

Originally Posted by ZackieChan

Like another guy earlier in the thread, I don't really believe in "rights".

shadowsdarknes
Member
(09-25-2017, 08:42 PM)
shadowsdarknes's Avatar
Whether or not something is a right is irrelevant to me as to whether or not we should fund something. The semantics over what is or isn't a right is not particularly useful. The better questions are, "What do we need and how do we ensure we deliver it efficiently. "
KonradLaw
Member
(09-25-2017, 08:42 PM)
KonradLaw's Avatar
To some level. Resources are unfortunatelly always limited, so full healthcare for everyone isn't possible even in very rich countries. Country has obligation to try to provide it as much as possible though.
whitehawk
leeches are the best bait when attempting to land bass
(09-25-2017, 08:42 PM)
whitehawk's Avatar
I don't think it's a right, but that doesn't mean we still can't strive to provide it to everyone for free.
Duane Cunningham
Member
(09-25-2017, 08:43 PM)
Duane Cunningham's Avatar
Great read. Here's an angle that I think about a lot that doesn't get brought up that much:

He told me about a friend who’d undergone an emergency appendectomy. “She panicked when she woke up in the hospital realizing it would cost her a fortune,” he said. “Think about that. A lot of people will take a crappy job just to get the health benefits rather than start an entrepreneurial idea. If we’re talking about tax breaks for rich people to create jobs and entrepreneurialism, why not health care to allow regular people to do the same thing?”


...Republicans tend to (in theory, at least) be champions of entrepreneurship, right? So drive home the fact that one of the biggest roadblocks to making your garage business into your full time job is the employer-based healthcare system. How many small businesses DON'T exist now because the would-be proprietor ultimately had to stay at their day job for the insurance?
family_guy
Member
(09-25-2017, 08:44 PM)
It should be. I'd take that over the right to bear arms.
Apathy
Member
(09-25-2017, 08:44 PM)
Apathy's Avatar
It is. Should be part of the basics a country provides it's citizens. Not getting care because you can't afford it would never even be an option
TheShampion
Member
(09-25-2017, 08:44 PM)
TheShampion's Avatar
When I worked in a call center, most the people I called were on disability (mostly because they were the only ones that picked up the phone) and so many would go out of their way to bash Hilary during the election season calling her a "baby-killer," and whatnot, and then go into their sob story about how they pay so much for insurance and how unfair it was. The cognitive dissonance I dealt with on a day to day basis was staggering.

The greater irony I suppose is if health insurance was more affordable, people would be more likely to have kids because their lives are more stable. Even if healthcare wasn't a right, shouldn't a 1st world nation be able to take care of its citizens? Wouldn't that be good for business as more people were willing to take risks and start their own businesses if their health insurance was taken care of? Why do we sacrifice the ideal of the American dream just so we can communicate to sick, poor people that they aren't worth being taken care of?
Chris1
Member
(09-25-2017, 08:45 PM)

Originally Posted by pswii60

Indeed. It's crazy to think there are countries where your taxes will pay for your bin to be collected but not your healthcare.

Yep, I live in Scotland where prescriptions are free aswell so it's completely free at the point of use. That's the way it should be and IMO it's ridiculous you gotta pay for prescriptions in England even though it's only like £8. I couldn't even imagine being told to pay £8 for something I need to help me, let alone the thousands Americans can pay.
darscot
Member
(09-25-2017, 08:46 PM)
Threads like this annoy me. As a society you decide what is and isn't a right. Nothing is free. You just have to decide what kind of society you want to be part off. Do you want to be part of a society that everyone has healthcare or not. The arguments against it are pretty tough to make.
CheesecakeRecipe
Stormy Grey
(09-25-2017, 08:46 PM)
CheesecakeRecipe's Avatar

Originally Posted by Akainu

Of course it ...

Fucking mobile gaf

it's so predictable by now
The Albatross
Member
(09-25-2017, 08:51 PM)
The Albatross's Avatar
No, it's a privilege of living in a modern society that meets the needs of its people.

If your society does not have provide health care, then it's not a modern society meeting the needs of its people.
Tain
Member
(09-25-2017, 08:53 PM)
Tain's Avatar
Not only does healthcare in the traditional sense need to be guaranteed, but the social determinants of health do as well. Housing, food.

Universal healthcare is the vital first step to these.
LegendofLex
Member
(09-25-2017, 08:55 PM)
LegendofLex's Avatar
You can't be sure your right to live is protected if you don't know if you'd be able to afford treatment for life-threatening diseases.

You can't be sure your right to liberty is protected if you're one debilitating disease away from total financial ruin.

You can be damn sure your right to pursue happiness isn't being protected if you're worrying about either of the above.
Condom
Member
(09-25-2017, 08:55 PM)
Condom's Avatar
It is not but it should be. A healthy civilization is a public cause.
Hades Hotgun
Member
(09-25-2017, 08:56 PM)
Hades Hotgun's Avatar
If it is a right, then I think it ought to also be a responsibility.

BLS should be taught in every high school. Government subsidizing and over sight of medical school should be drastically expanded to increase the number of physicians and extenders.

Smoking, excessive drinking, unhealthy foods, and other significant factors in medical expenses should be taxed at extremely high levels or outright banned.

Quack remedies and therapies should be banned.

Medicine should be something akin to mathematics and reading in terms of fundamental integration in to every day Life.
SlickShoesRUCrazy
Member
(09-25-2017, 08:58 PM)
SlickShoesRUCrazy's Avatar
It should be.

Education should be also.
OrangeGrayBlue
Member
(09-25-2017, 09:00 PM)
OrangeGrayBlue's Avatar
Our priorities are so backwards. Almost all Americans feel that roads and bridges are not a place for profits and advertising and private enterprise in general, but when it comes to your grandpa's heart surgery apparently that's where profit margins and shareholders should come into play.
Trickster
Member
(09-25-2017, 09:05 PM)
Trickster's Avatar
If you want to have a population that is more healthy, happy and stress free, then yeah.

If you're just an evil cunt that think people should suffer needlessly, then no.
Soulscribe
Member
(09-25-2017, 09:06 PM)
Soulscribe's Avatar
I don't understand why anyone would argue otherwise. Take care of your citizens goddamn it.
Coinspinner
Member
(09-25-2017, 09:08 PM)
Coinspinner's Avatar
Check your local constitution to see if healthcare is a right for you.
Chmpocalypse
Blizzard
(09-25-2017, 09:08 PM)
Chmpocalypse's Avatar
Yes. Next question?
Anoregon
The flight plan I just filed with the agency list me, my men, Dr. Pavel here. But only one of you!
(09-25-2017, 09:09 PM)
Anoregon's Avatar
Owning a deadly firearm - right
Treatment for being on the receiving end of a deadly firearm - not a right

It's simple you guys
RinsFury
Member
(09-25-2017, 09:10 PM)
RinsFury's Avatar
Yes. It's disgusting that it's treated as a privilege for the rich in the US.
GameAddict411
Member
(09-25-2017, 09:11 PM)
GameAddict411's Avatar
It's a fundamental right without a doubt. There are people in the United States dying prematurely because of lack of health care access and affordability. It would be understandable if the US was a poor country or was facing financial difficulties, but that's not true at all. The US is of the richest country in the world. Not only that, but it also spends more money on military than several developed nations combined. Money that the American people could benefit from. Now, the reason we haven't seen any progress towards a universal health care is because States legislatures are in the pockets of a multi-billion organizations. They provide financial support that's essential to winning elections. I consider all form of political contribution from corporations a form of laundered bribery. As long money is mixed in politics people will always be fucked over.
Dehnus
Member
(09-25-2017, 09:11 PM)

Originally Posted by Schattenjäger

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2...h-care-a-right

Nothing too illuminating but a new article in the New Yorker.. really justs gives stories of people on both sides of the spectrum with some history thrown in

It is for the simple reason:

To market it, is like taking people hostage, either their family members or the people themselves.

Taking people hostage to extort money, good, power or influence is simply terrorism.

So to counter the argument: Is terrorism a right?
AnotherDayAnotherDollar
Member
(09-25-2017, 09:15 PM)

Originally Posted by SlickShoesRUCrazy

It should be.

Education should be also.

Basic education is.

Thread Tools