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mrkgoo
Member
(11-28-2016, 06:50 PM)

Originally Posted by Figments

Hey hold up. Mulan ain't a princess.

Disney classify her as one of the Disney princesses I believe.

Marriage counts!


Haven't seen Moana yet but can't wait. I will bring my daughter a Starbucks soon as it opens.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
(11-28-2016, 06:50 PM)
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Originally Posted by digitalrelic

Just because a company has been consistently good for a long time doesn't mean that they can't ever top their earlier creations. That thought process is just asinine. Your example of Beauty and the Beast joining the pantheon of Disney classics 54 years after Walt Disney Animation Studios was formed proves my point for me.

Im saying that with 25 years of distance from Beauty and the Beast release, compared to a movie you literally just saw and proclaimed was the GOAT.
harSon
(11-28-2016, 06:51 PM)
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Best animated film ever from Disney? SMH, ya'll haven't seen Home on the Range?
Figments
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(11-28-2016, 06:51 PM)
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Originally Posted by ViewtifulJC

yea Mulan is the thing that stands out on that list. Not bottom 5 Disney films Atlantis and Treasure Planet

You try taking a classic adventure story like Treasure Island and successfully make it a sci-fi action film, then.

Originally Posted by ViewtifulJC

or Dreamworks film El Dorado

FUCK. I always thought it was a Disney movie.
mrkgoo
Member
(11-28-2016, 06:51 PM)

Originally Posted by ViewtifulJC

Im saying that with 25 years of distance from Beauty and the Beast release, compared to a movie you literally just saw and proclaimed was the GOAT.

It can happen. Sometimes it may be a bit premature, as maybe it ages poorly, but you can easily say something like "Beauty and the Beast is my favourite of all time .... and I like this much better". Therefore....
digitalrelic
Member
(11-28-2016, 06:57 PM)
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Originally Posted by ViewtifulJC

Im saying that with 25 years of distance from Beauty and the Beast release, compared to a movie you literally just saw and proclaimed was the GOAT.

Beauty and the Beast wasn't any less brilliant a week after it came out than it is today. True classics don't take a lot of time to be recognized. Beauty and the Beast, Aladdin, and The Lion King were all recognized very quickly in the 90's as the masterpieces they were.

This notion spreads across genres. Everyone knew Schindler's List was one for the ages the first time they saw it. Everyone knew Inside Out was some of the best work Pixar has ever done right after the final frame ended. Everyone knew Saving Private Ryan would go down as one of the best depictions of war ever put on film.

We don't always need to wait 20 years before we can declare something as "great".
Last edited by digitalrelic; 11-28-2016 at 07:01 PM.
LegendofJoe
Member
(11-28-2016, 06:58 PM)
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I think it's odd that Disney didn't hold off on releasing this for a bit. It's going to be 2 full years until Disney Animation releases another original property. Yet, they released both Zootopia and Moana in a single year.
Surfinn
Member
(11-28-2016, 07:01 PM)
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Originally Posted by LegendofJoe

Same director though, one of the reasons why I can't wait to see this.

Oh shit are you serious? I'm in. Aladdin is my favorite Disney film.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
(11-28-2016, 07:02 PM)
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Originally Posted by digitalrelic

Beauty and the Beast wasn't any less brilliant a week after it came out than it is today. True classics don't take a lot of time to be recognized. Beauty and the Beast, Aladdin, and The Lion King were all recognized very quickly in the 90's as the masterpieces they were.

If you honestly believe Moana is on the same(actually, HIGHER) level than Beauty and the Beast and Fantasia, I cant stop your premature evaluation. There are people on this website who genuinely think Zootopia is some kind of apex of modern animated films because of something something race/class issues, so IDK. I'll never understand what film you guys saw that elevated them from "good!" to "one of the greatest movies ever created!", but I guess that how that goes.
digitalrelic
Member
(11-28-2016, 07:06 PM)
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Originally Posted by ViewtifulJC

If you honestly believe Moana is on the same(actually, HIGHER) level than Beauty and the Beast and Fantasia, I cant stop your premature evaluation. There are people on this website who genuinely think Zootopia is some kind of apex of modern animated films because of something something race/class issues, so IDK. I'll never understand what film you guys saw that elevated them from "good!" to "one of the greatest movies ever created!", but I guess that how that goes.

That's called "a difference of opinion", and yours isn't superior to anyone elses.

I agree with you that Zootopia is overrated. So is Frozen. In my opinion though, Moana is on another level. It has a timelessness about it that Disney's other recent efforts won't have, IMO.
Surfinn
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(11-28-2016, 07:08 PM)
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Originally Posted by ViewtifulJC

If you honestly believe Moana is on the same(actually, HIGHER) level than Beauty and the Beast and Fantasia, I cant stop your premature evaluation. There are people on this website who genuinely think Zootopia is some kind of apex of modern animated films because of something something race/class issues, so IDK. I'll never understand what film you guys saw that elevated them from "good!" to "one of the greatest movies ever created!", but I guess that how that goes.

I'll also one up the Zootopia comments here. I enjoyed the film but there was nothing revolutionary or risky about it. It's just a well made and executed movie. Frozen is in the same boat for me (although I'd much prefer to watch Zootopia again).
Malyse
stop advertising threads
(11-28-2016, 07:08 PM)
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Originally Posted by LegendofJoe

I think it's odd that Disney didn't hold off on releasing this for a bit. It's going to be 2 full years until Disney Animation releases another original property. Yet, they released both Zootopia and Moana in a single year.

Frozen effect. Moana went from a 2018 film to a 2017 film to a 2016 film based on Frozen continuing to make more and more money. Expect more princesses in your future even though Elsa and Anna still haven't had their Official Coronation Ceremony some three years later cause Frozen still is more valuable as a separate IP though I still think "why not both?" it.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
(11-28-2016, 07:08 PM)
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There is nothing timeless about all those purposefully anachronistic jokes. That fuckin Twitter joke sucked right now, much less 25/50 years in the future.

Thats actually my main argument against this latest so-called "Renaissance". Disney films have built themselves up on unironic, self-consciusios classicism. Films that exist outside time, adopting folklore and fables with a remove from any modernity. Snow White feels just the same from 1937 to today, as do Bambi, Little Mermaid, Sleeping Beauty, etc.

But ever since John Lasseter came on board, there's been a streak of slick, marketing-ready modern sense of humor and VERY contemporary self-aware comedies that feel like really good Dreamworks productions or solid Pixar outings instead of Disney movies. Zootopia being the apex of this, like I dont think Disney has ever made a movie so reliant on current cultural touchstones and and awkward movie references and shit. That movie might not survive the next few years, and you're putting it on the same level as Fantasia and Bambi!?!?

ok dude
Last edited by ViewtifulJC; 11-28-2016 at 07:15 PM.
Lyonaz
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(11-28-2016, 07:08 PM)
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Movie was amazing, definitely top 5 material.
Goodstyle
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(11-28-2016, 07:10 PM)
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Originally Posted by TwntyOneTwlv

Ehh..

I mean, don't get me wrong, I loved the crab and Shiny is awesome. But one of the best villain songs? I immediately thought of Friends on the Other Side and Be Prepared, both of which I'd put way above Shiny as far as villain songs go. Not to mention the fact that they're sung by, you know, actual villains.

The two you mentioned are my top two lol. I don't know man, I loved Shiny, and just because he was a side character, doesn't mean he isn't a villain. King Louie and Kaa from jungle book had small parts, and they're still incredibly memorable with great songs.

Shiny isn't as good as Poor Unfortunate Souls or Hellfire, but it's certainly in their realm.
Malyse
stop advertising threads
(11-28-2016, 07:10 PM)
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Originally Posted by Figments

Hey hold up. Mulan ain't a princess.

http://princess.disney.com/mulan

Mulan is absolutely a Disney Princess.
digitalrelic
Member
(11-28-2016, 07:13 PM)
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Originally Posted by ViewtifulJC

There is nothing timeless about all those purposefully anachronistic jokes. That fuckin Twitter joke sucked right now, much less 25/50 years in the future.

I pointed that out literally in the very first line of the OP:

Originally Posted by digitalrelic

With the exception of one poorly placed Twitter joke, I feel that this movie is an absolute masterpiece.

...And "All those"? What do you mean by "All those"? That was quite literally the only anachronistic line in the film. Have you seen the movie, Viewtiful?

If that one 3 second snippet of the film is the only weak point in the whole two hour runtime, I can deal with that.
Ploid 3.0
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(11-28-2016, 07:13 PM)
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It's hardly ever just you.
Baron von Loathsome
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(11-28-2016, 07:14 PM)
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Originally Posted by mrkgoo

Disney classify her as one of the Disney princesses I believe.

Marriage counts!

She didn't get hitched until the direct to video sequel. And Shang isn't a prince.
digitalrelic
Member
(11-28-2016, 07:15 PM)
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Originally Posted by Ploid 3.0

It's hardly ever just you.

I don't think anyone ever actually believes that they're the only person on the planet that believes something when they use that phrase. It's a figure of speech.
Messofanego
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(11-28-2016, 07:17 PM)
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Do you think it's also the best animated princess movie ever made? Or just Disney?

Cause I don't think anything will top The Tale Of Princess Kaguya, and that's my hyperbole on the matter.

Like, holy shit. OP, if you showed that to your daughter next, her mind would be blown.



Cause that might hit harder because it deals with the treatment of women over the ages than some feel-good adventure with funny sidekicks and songs.
99Luffy
Member
(11-28-2016, 07:18 PM)
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I wouldnt consider any of disneys computer animated movies top tier, though they can get pretty damn good.

Lilo and stitch is the last disney movie Id consider to be classic tier.
Last edited by 99Luffy; 11-28-2016 at 07:22 PM.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
(11-28-2016, 07:19 PM)
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Originally Posted by digitalrelic

I pointed that out literally in the very first line of the OP:



...And "All those"? What do you mean by "All those"? That was quite literally the only anachronistic line in the film. Have you seen the movie, Viewtiful?

If that one 3 second snippet of the film is the only weak point in the whole two hour runtime, I can deal with that.

Basically everything about Maui is an anachronism. He uses modern slang and turns of phrases and self-aware gags(see the OT title) and I feel that cheapens the movie. Clements & Musker's films always do this shit, like the very 90s Robin Williams Genie or Hercules being in a Air Jordan ad and dialing 9-1-1, and I find all that stuff anti-Disney. It encases them in ember, beholden to that particular point in history and pop culture, instead of feeling like a movie that could have always existed barring in mind the technology of the time like Beauty and the Beast, The Little Mermaid, Dumbo, etc
digitalrelic
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(11-28-2016, 07:23 PM)
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Originally Posted by Messofanego

Do you think it's also the best animated princess movie ever made? Or just Disney?

Cause I don't think anything will top The Tale Of Princess Kaguya, and that's my hyperbole on the matter.

Like, holy shit. OP, if you showed that to your daughter next, her mind would be blown.



Cause that might hit harder because it deals with the treatment of women over the ages than some feel-good adventure with funny sidekicks and songs.

I haven't seen The Tale of Princess Kaguya. Looks great, though. With that said, I don't think my four year old daughter would be able to grasp the nuances quite yet :). Feel-good adventures with funny sidekicks and songs will have to do for now.
Nepenthe
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(11-28-2016, 07:25 PM)
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One of Disney's best? Probably.

THE best? Lolno.
TheFlow
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(11-28-2016, 07:26 PM)
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not to be that guy but the movie is barely a week old. calling it one of the all time greats makes me go


when you described Moana to back up your claim you pretty much described all the other Disney movies we got in the past 7 years.

Tangled
Frozen

both movies with great animation, singing, and lovable sidekicks.
captainpat
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(11-28-2016, 07:26 PM)
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Originally Posted by Baron von Loathsome

She didn't get hitched until the direct to video sequel. And Shang isn't a prince.

Why do people keep doing this? It's pretty clear that being an actual princess and a Disney princess aren't exactly the same thing.
Jigorath
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(11-28-2016, 07:27 PM)
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They made Beauty and the Beast, so no.
Sub Boss
Banned
(11-28-2016, 07:28 PM)

Originally Posted by digitalrelic

I think another positive aspect of the film is that it doesn't have a traditional villian. Lots of shades of grey in this one.



It's quiet literally a really stupid chicken. It actually works really well for laughs. There's some self awareness about it, too. "I'm not a princess!" ... "You're wearing a dress and you have an animal sidekick. You're a princess."



I think this blows Frozen and Tangled out of the park, and is superior to Zootopia. I enjoyed Zootopia but it doesn't feel like a movie that will hold up nearly as well as Moana in 20 years.

Originally Posted by Goodstyle

There is no main villain unfortunately, but there's an awesome monster crab side villain with one of the best villain songs Disney ever did.

Uh, i still think a great villain is a neccessary ingredient for the best Disney animated movie, could be all villanious or with shades of gray but with songs and be threatening.

The villain made Hunchback and helped Lion King become a classic.

Recent Disney movies lack so much on dat element
ViewtifulJC
Banned
(11-28-2016, 07:30 PM)
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one of the most refreshing things about Moana is that there wasnt a romantic lead or any real villain at all
digitalrelic
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(11-28-2016, 07:34 PM)
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Originally Posted by TheFlow

not to be that guy but the movie is barely a week old. calling it one of the all time greats makes me go

As I've stated earlier, the greatest films don't need a lot of time before they're considered great. Films like Beauty and the Beast and The Lion King were considered all-time greats pretty much immediately after release. Moana is no different in my eyes.
HStallion
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(11-28-2016, 07:39 PM)
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Originally Posted by 99Luffy

I wouldnt consider any of disneys computer animated movies top tier, though they can get pretty damn good.

Lilo and stitch is the last disney movie Id consider to be classic tier.

My man.
Prophet Steve
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(11-28-2016, 07:39 PM)
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I loved it, but nah. I also don't really see the lack of romantic subplot as something really bold or inspiring. Sure, it often happens and I enjoyed it more this way, but it doesn't seem like that risky to me.
Alienfan
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(11-28-2016, 07:42 PM)
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Originally Posted by Vanillalite

Hate me, but I think the current DAS output of stuff like Moana and Zootopia is up there with the 90s output.

I think it's actually better, bar maybe The Lion King.
Malyse
stop advertising threads
(11-28-2016, 08:08 PM)
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Originally Posted by Baron von Loathsome

She didn't get hitched until the direct to video sequel. And Shang isn't a prince.

Originally Posted by Malyse

http://princess.disney.com/mulan

Mulan is absolutely a Disney Princess.

"If you wear a dress and have an animal sidekick, you're a princess"
- Maui, 2016.
supernormal
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(11-28-2016, 08:24 PM)
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I'm exited to see it with all the high praise. It's gonna be tough to beat Tangled for me though. Mother Knows Best Reprise is still the best thing ever.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJNvZRAmeqY
Kevtones
Member
(11-28-2016, 08:28 PM)

Originally Posted by ViewtifulJC

Basically everything about Maui is an anachronism. He uses modern slang and turns of phrases and self-aware gags(see the OT title) and I feel that cheapens the movie. Clements & Musker's films always do this shit, like the very 90s Robin Williams Genie or Hercules being in a Air Jordan ad and dialing 9-1-1, and I find all that stuff anti-Disney. It encases them in ember, beholden to that particular point in history and pop culture, instead of feeling like a movie that could have always existed barring in mind the technology of the time like Beauty and the Beast, The Little Mermaid, Dumbo, etc


Preach.
WhiteRabbitEXE
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(11-28-2016, 08:31 PM)
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Originally Posted by Kaladin

That's an odd way to spell Lion King.

I haven't seen Moana yet (probably this week) but I have a hard time imagining Lion King being surpassed. I'd say it's legitimately one of the greatest movies ever made, no qualifiers required. And I've always been a huge Lilo and Stitch fan too, so passing that would be a feat as well.
Last edited by WhiteRabbitEXE; 11-28-2016 at 08:39 PM.
kunonabi
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(11-28-2016, 08:42 PM)
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Nope, little mermaid, beauty and the beast, lion King, lilo & stitch, Aladdin(original), a goofy movie, cinderella, and Fox & the hound are all better plus a few I know I'm forgetting.
Akibastman
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(11-28-2016, 08:48 PM)
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Originally Posted by 99Luffy

I wouldnt consider any of disneys computer animated movies top tier, though they can get pretty damn good.

Lilo and stitch is the last disney movie Id consider to be classic tier.

I'll be more harsh but IMO Tarzan is the last classic and the best movies since Tarzan are Lilo & Stitch, The Emperor's New Groove and The Princess and The Frog.

That said, I'm really hyped by Moana and I want to believe it will be a "classic tier" Disney.
Discotheque
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(11-28-2016, 08:53 PM)
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JC spitting facts. Fighting the good fight in here.

I haven't seen Moana yet and I'm sure I'll enjoy it somewhat but what you said about clements and musker (sp?) rings so damn true. Actually it feels like the case with most Disney movies now in general.
Last edited by Discotheque; 11-28-2016 at 08:57 PM.
mrkgoo
Member
(11-28-2016, 09:06 PM)

Originally Posted by Baron von Loathsome

She didn't get hitched until the direct to video sequel. And Shang isn't a prince.

Son of a general or something, right?

But I'm pretty sure Disney still classifies her as a princess, don't they?
BronsonLee
(11-28-2016, 09:07 PM)
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Originally Posted by Discotheque

JC spitting facts. Fighting the good fight in here.

I haven't seen Moana yet

You have betrayed me.
digitalrelic
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(11-28-2016, 09:28 PM)
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Originally Posted by Discotheque

JC spitting facts. Fighting the good fight in here.

I haven't seen Moana yet and I'm sure I'll enjoy it somewhat but what you said about clements and musker (sp?) rings so damn true. Actually it feels like the case with most Disney movies now in general.

I actually agree on this, but I think Moana does a very good job of staying away from that type of writing for the most part.
Malyse
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(11-28-2016, 10:42 PM)
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Moana review: after 80 years of experiments, Disney has made the perfect Disney movie

Virtually everything about Disney’s latest fairy tale, Moana, is familiar from past Disney films. The studio is still following the broad parameters it started laying down in 1937, with Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs, by reshaping a culturally specific fairy tale to fit a family-friendly, accessible template. Once again, there’s a young woman leaving a safe, comfortable home, venturing into a dangerous world, and finding her destiny, all while singing catchy songs about what she wants and how she’ll get it.

All the narrow parameters are familiar, too, this time from Disney’s Tangled. Like Rapunzel in Tangled, Moana (Hawaiian newcomer Auli’i Cravalho) is brave and ambitious, but also naïve and sheltered, because she’s been held back by overprotective parents with their own agenda for her life. Like Rapunzel, Moana defies family to pursue her own quest. And like Rapunzel, Moana seeks the help of a more worldly and experienced man, who holds her in dismissive contempt until she’s proved herself enough times to earn his admiration. The fact that he’s a boastful demigod instead of a smug thief seems almost beside the point: Both Maui (Dwayne Johnson) in Moana and Flynn Rider in Tangled are flashy, arrogant, and headed for breakdowns when they realize the limits of their talents. And they’re both overshadowed by their plucky young protégés, who start out less cocksure and brash, so they suffer smaller falls whenever they hit a crisis of confidence. Naturally, in both films, there’s an animal companion, a lot of bantery comedy, a solemn moment where the heroine has to decide to press on alone, and some big explosive action when she does.

But the familiarity of the formula doesn’t matter nearly as much as the execution. Moana makes Tangled feel like one of many experiments at tinkering with the formula, getting it exactly right. All the beats proceed exactly as expected, but they hit with admirably precise timing, amid a strikingly beautiful landscape where every leaf is rendered with loving clarity. The humor, the wonder, and the awwww moments all hit home comfortably. This is such a perfect execution of the Disney formula, it feels like the movie the studio has been trying to make since Snow White.

I think this is a more verbose version of what the OP was trying to say.
Fury451
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(11-28-2016, 10:44 PM)
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Originally Posted by Rhomega Beta

Give it a few months and then come back.

Yeah, this is good insight. But for now, it's definitely among the greatest of greats, yes.
Finaj
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(11-28-2016, 10:46 PM)
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I think it's a little too conventional of a story to be Disney's best. In my opinion, a better Disney animated film came out earlier this year.

I do think Moana as a character is one of Disney's best, though.
Ganzlinger
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(11-28-2016, 10:59 PM)
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Originally Posted by Malyse


Mulan is absolutely a Disney Princess.

She is the best one
Malyse
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(11-28-2016, 11:12 PM)
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Originally Posted by Ganzlinger

She is the best one

Naw. That's Moana, then Belle, then Mulan.
Worst is Ariel.
Finaj
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(11-28-2016, 11:14 PM)
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Originally Posted by Malyse

Naw. That's Moana, then Belle, then Mulan.
Worst is Ariel.

The worst is Aurora from Sleeping Beauty. I don't think she does a significant thing in the entire movie. The side characters are given more time than her.

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