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NEOGAF's Official Music Production Thread: calling all producers

H

HappyBivouac

Member
hoverX said:
I think i'd like to create mostly hip-hop. I've got a somewhat newfound interest in electro as well.

i've posted this same question on other forums and someone made mention of the fact that some of the knobs aren't mapped to anything in Logic. is this person just a rookie? or does he have a valid point?
Click to expand...

I know nothing about Logic, but I'm just now getting into Live and definitely wish I had gotten into this to begin with. I've been using FL Studio for 7-8 years and Live just stomps all over it functionality-wise. I can see creating some crazy beats in it too, and seems like it'd be perfect for hip hop applications.

My biggest tip for a beginner: no matter what DAW/sequencer program you're using, do NOT rely on or make heavy use of the samples and presets that come with the program. You'll be gimping your music horribly if you do.
 
H

hoverX

Member
HappyBivouac said:
I know nothing about Logic, but I'm just now getting into Live and definitely wish I had gotten into this to begin with. I've been using FL Studio for 7-8 years and Live just stomps all over it functionality-wise. I can see creating some crazy beats in it too, and seems like it'd be perfect for hip hop applications.

My biggest tip for a beginner: no matter what DAW/sequencer program you're using, do NOT rely on or make heavy use of the samples and presets that come with the program. You'll be gimping your music horribly if you do.
Click to expand...

I've heard a lot of people say this about live, but what makes it so different? would i be better off getting Live and a APC40? or should i go the more traditional route using logic(or something else) along with a midi keyboard and drum pad?
 
F

Fusebox

Banned
hoverX said:
I've heard a lot of people say this about live, but what makes it so different? would i be better off getting Live and a APC40? or should i go the more traditional route using logic(or something else) along with a midi keyboard and drum pad?
Click to expand...

Does Logic have a demo? Try the Ableton demo before plonking down any cash, they both have very different workflow styles. I'm an Ableton whore from way back, I can't even use other DAWs because I'm so used to Lives workflow. It covers all my MIDI, audio, mixing and mastering needs.
 
B

btkadams

Member
hoverX said:
I've heard a lot of people say this about live, but what makes it so different? would i be better off getting Live and a APC40? or should i go the more traditional route using logic(or something else) along with a midi keyboard and drum pad?
Click to expand...
well live is like 800 bucks so youd HOPE that its better than the competition haha.

it feels better than anything i have ever used but i have barely delved much into other DAWS as much as this one (well other than garageband). i used cubase le for a couple years but not for electronic music at all so that experience was forgetful.
 
H

hoverX

Member
Fusebox said:
Does Logic have a demo? Try the Ableton demo before plonking down any cash, they both have very different workflow styles. I'm an Ableton whore from way back, I can't even use other DAWs because I'm so used to Lives workflow. It covers all my MIDI, audio, mixing and mastering needs.
Click to expand...

I totally forgot that i had a old lite version of ableton live kicking around (from some DJ hardware i bought). it seems really intuitive but also a little more oriented towards electronic/dance music and live performing. i don't think logic has a demo.
 
B

BowieZ

Banned
So does anyone want to collaborate at some point? I'd happily go 50-50 on sales if someone wants to form a little production duo :p
 
C

Chemo

Member
BowieZ said:
So does anyone want to collaborate at some point? I'd happily go 50-50 on sales if someone wants to form a little production duo :p
Click to expand...
Almost assuredly. Probably sometime later in the summer/early in the fall... making a huge push on a giant multi-year project of mine (the release of my first record, and my new one, and working on the next one) and prepping another 2-3 records that aren't my own for release over the course of the next few months.

I know my shit is weird, but it mixes really well with others' work. :lol
 
P

pirahna1

Member
I'd like to collaborate with someone if anyone is down. It just seems I can never finish a track, so maybe another like-mind could help push my productions to completion? :D

Right now I'm working with that sample pack uploaded a few posts ago. Trying for a house vibe.
 
B

btkadams

Member
pirahna1 said:
I'd like to collaborate with someone if anyone is down. It just seems I can never finish a track, so maybe another like-mind could help push my productions to completion? :D

Right now I'm working with that sample pack uploaded a few posts ago. Trying for a house vibe.
Click to expand...
are you running ableton 8?


also, id like to do that sample pack thing but ive got two tests, today and tomorrow so tomorrow afternoon ill play around with it.
 
B

Blutonium

Member
After 2 and a half years of FL Studio I'm tired of it, so I made the switch to Ableton Live recently...still have to learn a lot.

So far i'm working my first Ableton track, as for now though, check out my latest unfinished track (FL Studio) for the next Neogaf GAME album:



http://soundcloud.com/xenogenome
 
H

HappyBivouac

Member
Chemo said:
Almost assuredly. Probably sometime later in the summer/early in the fall... making a huge push on a giant multi-year project of mine (the release of my first record, and my new one, and working on the next one) and prepping another 2-3 records that aren't my own for release over the course of the next few months.

I know my shit is weird, but it mixes really well with others' work. :lol
Click to expand...

How are you going about releasing it? Do you have any experience with independent promotion? This is my biggest hangup as an artist right now.
 
C

chaostrophy

Member
Carlisle said:
Sorry to keep spamming but I got one last question. I've decided what I'm gonna get, and they have it in stock at my local guitar center. But it's $30 cheaper if I go the amazon route. How have you guys fared with ordering expensive equipment like this online? I've heard some horror stories, and this product, while new, is sold from a marketplace seller. Is $30 worth the guarantee that I'll get it in one piece? Or am
I worrying too much?

All my previous equipment I've bought in person. Never even bought from the manufacturer online store, let alone a 3rd party retailer.
Click to expand...

I've bought online from Sweetwater, AudioMIDI, and NovaMusik, and never had problems. Not sure how their prices compare with Amazon, but they're generally competitive. And their core business is selling expensive equipment online and making sure it gets to their customers ok, so they're safe.
 
C

Chemo

Member
HappyBivouac said:
How are you going about releasing it? Do you have any experience with independent promotion? This is my biggest hangup as an artist right now.
Click to expand...
Going to try out CreateSpace for the physical/online store aspects of it for this first record... if it's cool, I'll keep using them through the fall, and if not, I'll probably just go through Discmakers in the future. I'd honestly rather pay up front and have my copies than use one of the on-demand services, but I know a few people who speak highly of CreateSpace so I'm willing to give them a chance. I'm not interested in making any money/selling any copies whatsoever at this juncture, so I'm not deluding myself with any kind of remote idea of success: The entire endeavor is going to be a money sink, whether I do it through a service like CS or pay for it wholly out of pocket. :lol The physical releases will exist solely for the purpose of sending review copies/demonstrations out to anyone I may want to work with/for, and for ASCAP purposes.

No experience with independent promotion, but that's alright for my label... it's all weird, niche music anyway, so it's not like we're going to be doing a ton of shows or ever even maybe getting airplay. I do, however, have a ton of friends and acquaintances in film school/art school, though, so my primary goal is to work with them (and their peers) as much as possible on projects (films, art installations, whatever), while I continue to work on my own records in tandem. So I guess basically my method is going to be as much networking with people who make things. I thought about trying to hook up with people making abstract independent games, but I never know where to look for those people, so I've pretty much given up on that. Ultimately, if I can keep doing this for a while and eventually find a way to squeak out a paycheck to paycheck living from it, that's my optimal life. (I've been working on music for 13-14 years now, but only this year have I ever made any effort to take what I was doing and let it escape from the confines of my living quarters -- so I am absolutely brand new at this aspect.)
 
H

HappyBivouac

Member
Chemo said:
Going to try out CreateSpace for the physical/online store aspects of it for this first record... if it's cool, I'll keep using them through the fall, and if not, I'll probably just go through Discmakers in the future. I'd honestly rather pay up front and have my copies than use one of the on-demand services, but I know a few people who speak highly of CreateSpace so I'm willing to give them a chance. I'm not interested in making any money/selling any copies whatsoever at this juncture, so I'm not deluding myself with any kind of remote idea of success: The entire endeavor is going to be a money sink, whether I do it through a service like CS or pay for it wholly out of pocket. :lol The physical releases will exist solely for the purpose of sending review copies/demonstrations out to anyone I may want to work with/for, and for ASCAP purposes.

No experience with independent promotion, but that's alright for my label... it's all weird, niche music anyway, so it's not like we're going to be doing a ton of shows or ever even maybe getting airplay. I do, however, have a ton of friends and acquaintances in film school/art school, though, so my primary goal is to work with them (and their peers) as much as possible on projects (films, art installations, whatever), while I continue to work on my own records in tandem. So I guess basically my method is going to be as much networking with people who make things. I thought about trying to hook up with people making abstract independent games, but I never know where to look for those people, so I've pretty much given up on that. Ultimately, if I can keep doing this for a while and eventually find a way to squeak out a paycheck to paycheck living from it, that's my optimal life. (I've been working on music for 13-14 years now, but only this year have I ever made any effort to take what I was doing and let it escape from the confines of my living quarters -- so I am absolutely brand new at this aspect.)
Click to expand...

Well there is always a substantial market out there for non-mainstream electronic music. It's just that the matter of reaching your niche is absurdly difficult. My ideal life would also be to just make music and squeak by on livable paychecks from it. That's pretty unrealistic. At best I hope for a small supplement to my income, and really just getting people to hear the things that I love to make.

On the subject of "abstract videogames" I've had a game idea floating around in my head for years now. Pretty abstract and music-centered and it keeps changing forms in my head. The problem is, like you, I don't really know people who are into indie game development.
 
C

Chemo

Member
HappyBivouac said:
Well there is always a substantial market out there for non-mainstream electronic music. It's just that the matter of reaching your niche is absurdly difficult. My ideal life would also be to just make music and squeak by on livable paychecks from it. That's pretty unrealistic. At best I hope for a small supplement to my income, and really just getting people to hear the things that I love to make.

On the subject of "abstract videogames" I've had a game idea floating around in my head for years now. Pretty abstract and music-centered and it keeps changing forms in my head. The problem is, like you, I don't really know people who are into indie game development.
Click to expand...
Hah, by livable paycheck I mean enough to split rent with a friend or two and eat practically nothing, just have a handle of whiskey on hand. :lol My monetary requirements are microscopic!

But yeah, I actually know some people who want to do game development, but they want to do some pretty standard stuff that wouldn't mesh with me at all, so I'm not even considering it anymore.

Best I can suggest is just network, network, network. I meet at least a couple of people every week or so that I could potentially collaborate with, so I always get their info and exchange work etc... met a girl a few weeks ago who is apparently going to use one of my tracks in a film project for a class, and one last week who is going to paint my next album cover. Now, when they show these things to other people, my music will be tagging along for the ride.

I've only been working on the label idea for a month or so now, but I've already acquired a professional-class web developer, a professional-class photographer, a few new musical collaborators, and a pretty decent amount of artists in other media who want to exchange work/ideas and collaborate too... so honestly, I think that's going to be the way forward. On top of that I'll probably grab some gear within the next few months so I can do some really short (I'm thinking 15-20 minutes tops) practice sets, and then maybe try to find somewhere to play out a few times.
 
H

HappyBivouac

Member
Chemo said:
Hah, by livable paycheck I mean enough to split rent with a friend or two and eat practically nothing, just have a handle of whiskey on hand. :lol My monetary requirements are microscopic!
Click to expand...

Pretty much what I meant too :lol
 
B

btkadams

Member
pirahna1 said:
I'm using Live 7.
Click to expand...
damn, i was hoping we could do a collab together. i guess we still could, its just i couldnt send you the session files which would blow. id have to send the master because they made it (for some asshole reason) that ableton 8 files aren't compatible with previous versions. even 8.1 isnt compatible with 8.0. so stupid!
 
D

Dilli666

Member
Anyone got some good tutorials for eq / mastering a whole band (2gits,bass,drums&vox)?
I've recorded some stuff with my band, but everything mixed together always sound a bit muddy, flat and lifeless.

As for the thread I prefer an old Version of Cubase. Works smoothly and got nice features for VST-stuff.
 
F

Fusebox

Banned
hoverX said:
I totally forgot that i had a old lite version of ableton live kicking around (from some DJ hardware i bought). it seems really intuitive but also a little more oriented towards electronic/dance music and live performing. i don't think logic has a demo.
Click to expand...

On the surface Live may seem designed for firing off clips to make live electronic performances a piece of piss, but it's also a beast for laying down rock (or whatever) tracks really quickly.

My workflow for non-dance shit goes something like this.

First I create a drum part on a MIDI channel using Addictive Drums, then I add an audio track and arm it and record a bass line then re-amp it with Guitar Rig 4, then I add another audio track and arm it and record a guitar part, then another guitar part on another audio channel, then maybe some piano or synth on another MIDI track, throw some EQs and comps where necessary.

????

Profit.

Btw Live users, 8.1.3 just came out.
 
P

pirahna1

Member
Well, I just upgraded to Live 8, don't know which version I have aside from that. I'd imagine 8.0.0 or something or the like.
 
B

btkadams

Member
pirahna1 said:
Well, I just upgraded to Live 8, don't know which version I have aside from that. I'd imagine 8.0.0 or something or the like.
Click to expand...
update to 8.1.3 and lets fondle each other's music!
 
B

btkadams

Member
im not sure how i do this ableton update? i did the "check for updates" which took me to an update page and a dl. i downloaded and then dragged it to my applications, but its a different folder name than my previous live version so it didn't exactly overwrite anything. so now i have multiple lives. can i just delete the old one now?
 
P

pirahna1

Member
btkadams said:
im not sure how i do this ableton update? i did the "check for updates" which took me to an update page and a dl. i downloaded and then dragged it to my applications, but its a different folder name than my previous live version so it didn't exactly overwrite anything. so now i have multiple lives. can i just delete the old one now?
Click to expand...

I think you can just delete the old versions, but I'm not positive.

I tried to update but I can't get it to work. My plugins are asking for their reg codes every time I open Live, so I just reverted back to Live 7 - too much hassle upgrading :(
 
C

Chemo

Member
BowieZ said:
Here's one of my latest efforts (updated), an electro-ballad with a bit of a grungy dance edge: Superstar (Wherever You Are) (Had posted it above but took it down cos I had improved it soon after posting.)

Please pretend a better singer is singing the demo vocal lines! :lol
Click to expand...
Wow, I'm actually really impressed with how catchy this is, and honestly the vocals are way better than I would have expected based on how hard you rag on them in this thread, hahah. Really nice work, I'd keep working on this one for damned sure... I missed it the first time you posted it, but it's really turning out.

BowieZ said:
Very awesome! (Although I do think the recurring electronic crash sound at the far right of soundfield is a little too uncomfortable.) You're a very talented sonar poet.
Click to expand...
Actually, the uncomfortable comment is the best thing you could say... the record is supposed to be unsettling overall, so moments of bliss and beauty will be interrupted by tones like that (and some tracks won't be blissful/beautiful at all, heh). Thanks for checking it out, I greatly appreciate the feedback.
 
B

BowieZ

Banned
Alucrid said:
Pretty good actually. The ending though, A+.
Click to expand...
Oh, wow, thanks! Though I thought I had that old version set on private lol. Anyway, posted a slightly longer/updated version a couple posts up.

EDIT:
Chemo said:
Actually, the uncomfortable comment is the best thing you could say... the record is supposed to be unsettling overall, so moments of bliss and beauty will be interrupted by tones like that (and some tracks won't be blissful/beautiful at all, heh). Thanks for checking it out, I greatly appreciate the feedback.
Click to expand...
Sorry, missed this. Yeah, it's all very effective, just with headphones on, it definitely is slightly painful on the right ear, but :lol as long as you know what you're doing :p

And thanks. "Catchy" is also the best thing you could have said. It's getting there... :)
 
N

Nyx

Member
I have troubles finding motivation to finish stuff.

I just build loops now, and start a new project afterwards, haven't made a full track arrangement in quite some time now... ;(
 
C

Chemo

Member
Nyx said:
I have troubles finding motivation to finish stuff.

I just build loops now, and start a new project afterwards, haven't made a full track arrangement in quite some time now... ;(
Click to expand...
One of my best friends, and someone who has been doing this a couple of years longer than me (15-16 years or so), has recently fallen into this trap. So far I've just done what I can to encourage him to focus and produce something final (it's been literally 3 years or so since he's even named something he was working on besides random filename followed by a number). He's actually started in on a track this week, too, so I think it's working...

So, I'll encourage you as well to finish something up and share it!

BowieZ said:
Sorry, missed this. Yeah, it's all very effective, just with headphones on, it definitely is slightly painful on the right ear, but as long as you know what you're doing :p

And thanks. "Catchy" is also the best thing you could have said. It's getting there... :)
Click to expand...
Ohhhh, it's possible you might have had the volume up a little louder than I expected. It's actually designed to be listened to in the dark in a quiet space at a volume level where none of the sounds are caustic. I know, I know... that's counter-productive, because I can't control how people listen to it. :lol

And hell yeah man, I've got you on follow now, I'm hoping to either hear more tracks in that style or an update to Superstar. It really is stellar work.
 
Y

Yasae

Banned
I'm in the middle of the huge ass process of changing from Cubase on PC to Pro Tools on Mac.

I know it's a step back in some ways, but it's also a step forward in a lot of other ways. Digi are working on ADC for LE as we speak, and that's basically the biggest issue right now.

I bought a brand new iMac 27" i7/8GB ram, a Digi 003Rack+ and a G-Tech 1TB external FW drive.

The 003 is not as good as my current interface, which I'm selling tomorrow, but I doubt I'll be able to tell the difference.

It was just a matter of time before I jumped on the Pro Tools train, and I've never used a Mac in my life before. Going to be a HUGE transition for me, but hopefully a more stable and noiseless environment to work in.

Now, if only those damn ash clouds would clear, my new iMac would get here next week...
Click to expand...
Right, right. So they say. Maybe when their stock rose (artificially?) with the acquisition of M-Audio, they would've had the money to do that. Unfortunately it's been plummeting for awhile.

That recent 8.0.3 update also had a lot of bugs.

So I'm just now trying to teach myself Ableton Live because I want to do live versions of some of my songs, all of which were made in FL. Does anyone know if there's an easy way to move my midi and plugin data over from a .flp into Live?
Click to expand...
You could try Export -> Project Bones. It gives you all the channel presets and scores in the project. This way you could search for your parts in the project bones folder with Ableton's browser. Barring any strange conversions, MIDI should be drag and drop.
 
B

BowieZ

Banned
Chemo said:
Ohhhh, it's possible you might have had the volume up a little louder than I expected. It's actually designed to be listened to in the dark in a quiet space at a volume level where none of the sounds are caustic. I know, I know... that's counter-productive, because I can't control how people listen to it. :lol
Click to expand...
Well you can if you set up an installation somewhere. Meanwhile, have you thought about slightly commercializing the sound, you know, I mean, introduce some framework of regular beats at some points? It sounds like, I dunno, The Knife or iamamiwhoami, just even more abstract. As in, you've definitely got a great foundation going there upon which other things could grow if you ever so chose.

Chemo said:
It really is stellar work.
Click to expand...
500px-Futurama_Fry_Looking_Squint.jpg

:D
 
C

Chemo

Member
BowieZ said:
Well you can if you set up an installation somewhere. Meanwhile, have you thought about slightly commercializing the sound, you know, I mean, introduce some framework of regular beats at some points? It sounds like, I dunno, The Knife or iamamiwhoami, just even more abstract. As in, you've definitely got a great foundation going there upon which other things could grow if you ever so chose.:D
Click to expand...
Yeah, I actually have several side projects going on where I work with people who use other styles... the first track from my new record with my main other project, The LHD, should be ready before the end of the week, which combines my sound with a guy playing minimal evocative electric guitar. It'll probably be a little more commercial sounding without being a total departure from what I normally do. I have my half done, just waiting on him... I'll post it when it's complete.

As for my solo stuff, I'll likely keep it abstract until I finally get around to making this sleazy club record I've been planning (and then immediately go back to abstract). There's just not enough totally weird minimal shit out there, and I adore it so much, so I'm going to keep mining that crazy vein and hopefully get other people on board someday! I'm sure there's a target audience for it, since I'm part of it, it's just that locating them is hard because they're few and far between. :lol
 
S

soul creator

Member
complete beginner here with a bootleg bedroom setup

So I like to find random instrumentals I like, and rap over them. Currently I use Audacity to handle the basics of this. I've heard that EQ'ing is what makes vocals sound like they're "in" the track and not just on top of it or whatever. Is that possible with Audacity? Or should I start looking into better software?

It's not a huge deal or anything, but I've always been curious about that.

(my current setup and songs I've done)
 
C

Chemo

Member
soul creator said:
complete beginner here with a bootleg bedroom setup

So I like to find random instrumentals I like, and rap over them. Currently I use Audacity to handle the basics of this. I've heard that EQ'ing is what makes vocals sound like they're "in" the track and not just on top of it or whatever. Is that possible with Audacity? Or should I start looking into better software?

It's not a huge deal or anything, but I've always been curious about that.

(my current setup and songs I've done)
Click to expand...
Hah, I wouldn't call you a beginner at all... look at your body of work, and how far back it goes. I checked out Never Fast Forward and Sleep, both of which I think are great (Sleep is my favorite of the two).

Not sure about Audacity, as I've never used it, but I did want you to know that I checked out your work! Bookmarked your page for later too, I could use a good hip hop collaboration somewhere down the line...
 
T

Timedog

good credit (by proxy)
Here's a question I've always had:

How are dudes sampling stuff from old soul records and what not and somehow not having drums, vocals, etc in their samples? Like if a guy just wanted some strings or horns from a record that's too old to have an instrumental version out, how does he do it? I'd like to start getting some samples, yo.
 
S

soul creator

Member
Chemo said:
Hah, I wouldn't call you a beginner at all... look at your body of work, and how far back it goes. I checked out Never Fast Forward and Sleep, both of which I think are great (Sleep is my favorite of the two).

Not sure about Audacity, as I've never used it, but I did want you to know that I checked out your work! Bookmarked your page for later too, I could use a good hip hop collaboration somewhere down the line...
Click to expand...

well, the actual writing stuff I've obviously done a ton of, lol...but I was referring more to the whole sound mixing thing. It feels like I should be doing more than just recording on top of the beat and adjusting volume sliders :lol

Thanks for the kind words though! I definitely wouldn't mind writing over something original. Hell, I've already did something with ^^^Timedog :p
 
F

Fusebox

Banned
btkadams said:
im not sure how i do this ableton update? i did the "check for updates" which took me to an update page and a dl. i downloaded and then dragged it to my applications, but its a different folder name than my previous live version so it didn't exactly overwrite anything. so now i have multiple lives. can i just delete the old one now?
Click to expand...

Yep, I usually keep the last version installed for a while in case there's any issues with the new release but you can have as many different releases installed at once as you want.
 
C

Chemo

Member
soul creator said:
well, the actual writing stuff I've obviously done a ton of, lol...but I was referring more to the whole sound mixing thing. It feels like I should be doing more than just recording on top of the beat and adjusting volume sliders :lol

Thanks for the kind words though! I definitely wouldn't mind writing over something original. Hell, I've already did something with ^^^Timedog :p
Click to expand...
Ahahahah, that shit is fucking golden.

Check out my SoundCloud sometime. It's not really commercially viable, but some really disjointed/crazy rhymes would almost definitely work really well. http://soundcloud.com/chemo-castronovo

I'm all booked up for the season but I'm looking to expand my horizons after I finish the three records I'm working on now.
 
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