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Saint's Row was always better than GTA but lost its way
- Thread starter SolVanderlyn
- Start date
Gravy Boat
Member
Makes me sad to see so many people hating on SR3. I thought it was by far the best SR game, and way better than GTA IV.
BadAss2961
Member
Not even close. Up until SR3, Saints Row was good enough to rival whatever GTA game came before it. But the next GTA would always blow all other open world games out of the water.
Saints Row was a good alternative, the sequel was a great game, then the series got dumber and dumber following SR3.
Saints Row was a good alternative, the sequel was a great game, then the series got dumber and dumber following SR3.
Sr. Wiggles
Banned
I think I've tried and quit 2 or 3 GTA games... Always got bored.
Meanwhile, I've completed every Saints Row game, haha.
GIVE ME SAINTS ROW 5 DAMN IT
Meanwhile, I've completed every Saints Row game, haha.
GIVE ME SAINTS ROW 5 DAMN IT
IncognitoPanda
Member
GTA is better written, more polished in every way, but I see what you mean. SR2 made me laugh at times and care at times. I find GTA too grounded and SR3-4 too crazy. I agree that sometimes less is more.
Craymen Edge
Member
I didn't care about Saint's Row until it stopped trying to be GTA.
I think I had more fun with SR3's character creator than the actual game.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=449741&page=1
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=449741&page=1
The Albatross
Member
In my opinion, no Saints Row game has ever been better than any GTA game, but Saints Row 1 and 2 were pretty good games. Saints Row 1 and 2 were also great because they gave people want they wanted, a light-hearted open world game on "next-gen" hardware, something that Rockstar was going to make you wait for (and then, IMO, ultimately under-deliver in many aspects with GTAIV). Volition was smart to stop trying to make Saints Row a clone of GTA because by the time GTAIV came out, you could see how much further along Rockstar was in being able to actualize a real city and put realistic characters in it, than Volition could ever come close to. Going in the arcadey, extremely over the top route was smart, though ultimate III and IV were my least favorite Saints Row games.
Saints Row 1 still has some ideas that were better implemented than things that GTA has yet to implement, largely, the garage system and having a sense of ownership of cars, with some penalty for destroying them. Oddly, GTA Online has implemented a similar system, and yet, GTA V still has a worst system of vehicle ownership than even GTAIII San Andreas. GTAIV, of course, has the worst system of vehicle ownership of any 3D GTA game.
Saints Row III and IV were trying so hard, but ultimately left me much less impressed. Plus, the humor is so temporary in those games. They try so hard to be funny and implement this zaniness, but the concept of having a gun that plays dub step and makes all of the enemies around you start dancing, is a funny concept for about 5 seconds and it's funny in the one year that game came out, but now... 3 or 4 years later, it's just not funny.
GTA has some of that, but the humor in the series is much better done and lasts much longer. The humor in Saints Row games (III and IV especially) are like the plethora of mock-comedy movies from the 90s and early 2000s like "Scary Movie" and it's sequels. Those movies just play on pop-culture and media trends from, say, 1998, and sure, it's hilarious in 1998, but if you try to watch it in 2004, none of the jokes are funny because they're all irrelevant.
Saints Row 1 still has some ideas that were better implemented than things that GTA has yet to implement, largely, the garage system and having a sense of ownership of cars, with some penalty for destroying them. Oddly, GTA Online has implemented a similar system, and yet, GTA V still has a worst system of vehicle ownership than even GTAIII San Andreas. GTAIV, of course, has the worst system of vehicle ownership of any 3D GTA game.
Saints Row III and IV were trying so hard, but ultimately left me much less impressed. Plus, the humor is so temporary in those games. They try so hard to be funny and implement this zaniness, but the concept of having a gun that plays dub step and makes all of the enemies around you start dancing, is a funny concept for about 5 seconds and it's funny in the one year that game came out, but now... 3 or 4 years later, it's just not funny.
GTA has some of that, but the humor in the series is much better done and lasts much longer. The humor in Saints Row games (III and IV especially) are like the plethora of mock-comedy movies from the 90s and early 2000s like "Scary Movie" and it's sequels. Those movies just play on pop-culture and media trends from, say, 1998, and sure, it's hilarious in 1998, but if you try to watch it in 2004, none of the jokes are funny because they're all irrelevant.
I'll agree to about... 12%, in that Saints Row 2 feels like a more cohesive and polished game than Saints Row: The Third. Saints Row 2 is pretty gross to me now, though, because so much of its bad, obnoxious stuff is sincere. Its sense of what is "cool" is too concerned with lining up with the worst "gangsta" trends of that era in video games. A trend that dated games so hard it was basically like a block of cement around their feet.
It definitely had the occasional bout of out-of-left-field crazyness and charisma, but it was still stooped in much of the same attitude as every other try-hard action game of the time.
The Third had heart and a voice.
In general I think The Third was the absolute sweet spot, with 4 feeling like somebody hacked/gamesharked 3 to the point where nothing in it is of value any more. As such - a joke/spin on the series' gameplay fundamentals - 4 is interesting and fun to me, but it pretty much scorched its own earth in the process. A 5 would need a less-is-more approach or a new one all-together, because 4 isn't really sustainable beyond itself. It is a wonderful cap on the series, though, and like The Third, there was so much joy and heart to it.
3 and 4 feel like games that stopped pretending, and sure, maybe 4 got a bit carried away, but it was probably just a bit drunk on its own happiness.
I think most games that play well are better than GTA from a gameplay standpoint. I think it's a little bizarre that arguably the biggest franchise around is such a sluggish mess to control, and where GTA excels is in its storytelling and - more than anything - its incredible sense of place. You feel so present in GTA; it feels alive in a way that Saints Row never has and probably never will, and as long as that is the case it doesn't really matter if you're a toilet or not in the latter.
But I get what you're saying, and I'm sure we all have a limit to how out there we wanted/want Saints Row to be. I'll agree with those 12% though, Saints Row 2 feels like the last in the series that felt lavishly produced and polished.
It definitely had the occasional bout of out-of-left-field crazyness and charisma, but it was still stooped in much of the same attitude as every other try-hard action game of the time.
The Third had heart and a voice.
In general I think The Third was the absolute sweet spot, with 4 feeling like somebody hacked/gamesharked 3 to the point where nothing in it is of value any more. As such - a joke/spin on the series' gameplay fundamentals - 4 is interesting and fun to me, but it pretty much scorched its own earth in the process. A 5 would need a less-is-more approach or a new one all-together, because 4 isn't really sustainable beyond itself. It is a wonderful cap on the series, though, and like The Third, there was so much joy and heart to it.
3 and 4 feel like games that stopped pretending, and sure, maybe 4 got a bit carried away, but it was probably just a bit drunk on its own happiness.
I think most games that play well are better than GTA from a gameplay standpoint. I think it's a little bizarre that arguably the biggest franchise around is such a sluggish mess to control, and where GTA excels is in its storytelling and - more than anything - its incredible sense of place. You feel so present in GTA; it feels alive in a way that Saints Row never has and probably never will, and as long as that is the case it doesn't really matter if you're a toilet or not in the latter.
But I get what you're saying, and I'm sure we all have a limit to how out there we wanted/want Saints Row to be. I'll agree with those 12% though, Saints Row 2 feels like the last in the series that felt lavishly produced and polished.
Man Called Aerodynamics
Member
Don't agree with the "lost its way" part. SR3, SR4, and Gat Out of Hell were all more fun for me than any GTA game.
Sevenfold
Member
One of a handful of games that I 100% completed.
valkillmore
Member
To me, you can learn to adapt your play style to different control schemes, so long as they're still fun. Case in point - I absolutely could learn to adapt to Saint's Row's driving model, however I still think the driving model in GTA V and yes GTA IV to be far and away a more fun, enjoyable experience. Same goes for on-foot and other vehicles.
What you can't do, as you correctly point out, is compare the worlds in which the games play out and arrive at the conclusion that Volition's creations are in any way superior to those Rockstar have put out. To me it's just not worthy of debate. I'll give you the on-foot controls, yeah Saint's Row has always been snappier. However, it's no chore to control your characters in GTA games, except for GTA III and yes Vice City; going back to those games is a problem, but back then the whole open-world sandbox style of game was one they pioneered and they hadn't ironed everything out. Saints Row 1 benefited greatly from the advancements in controls that GTA San Andreas improved on over III and Vice City. So even going back to Saint's Row's roots, you still arrive at a game that took inspiration from Rockstar's lead & latest advancements. They made some good choices and the lighting engine was pretty impressive, but world building? No, Rockstar has secret sauce mate.
MisterHero
Super Member
SR3 handles sandbox car collecting better than GTAV. Fact.
It carried over into SR4, but powers and the story made them pointless.
It carried over into SR4, but powers and the story made them pointless.
I love the GTA games, and all of them are right up there as my favorite games of all time, but Saints Row 2 definitely holds a special place in my heart, and I enjoyed it more than any other Saints Row game that came after (never played much of 1).
I can't really quantify if SR2 is better than GTA IV or V though, because I love them all, but I do know some of the hardest laughs I've had came from SR2 and its coop mode. Like others described it, it seemed more like a San Andreas sequel than what GTA IV ended up being, and doing that entire thing with a buddy was AMAZING!
The difference with me at least, is that I generally have played the GTA games for the single player stuff. I always wanted to be able to do those missions and explore the world with a friend, but I was fine getting sucked away into the GTA universe for hours at a time by myself. IV and V have scratched that itch a bit (more-so IV than V actually), but nothing seemed to come close to the absolute mayhem of SR2 in coop. Without the coop, I'm fine with saying I wouldn't have enjoyed the game nearly as much.
The superpowers stuff and general blandness in SR 3 and 4 just didn't do it for me, as I no longer ever felt familiar with specific locations on the map, and it all just blended together as you zoomed around. Having the same base map in 3 and 4 didn't help things either, as I was already bored of Steelport before the end of 3, and the side stuff felt like such a chore compared to the stuff in SR2.
I can't really quantify if SR2 is better than GTA IV or V though, because I love them all, but I do know some of the hardest laughs I've had came from SR2 and its coop mode. Like others described it, it seemed more like a San Andreas sequel than what GTA IV ended up being, and doing that entire thing with a buddy was AMAZING!
The difference with me at least, is that I generally have played the GTA games for the single player stuff. I always wanted to be able to do those missions and explore the world with a friend, but I was fine getting sucked away into the GTA universe for hours at a time by myself. IV and V have scratched that itch a bit (more-so IV than V actually), but nothing seemed to come close to the absolute mayhem of SR2 in coop. Without the coop, I'm fine with saying I wouldn't have enjoyed the game nearly as much.
The superpowers stuff and general blandness in SR 3 and 4 just didn't do it for me, as I no longer ever felt familiar with specific locations on the map, and it all just blended together as you zoomed around. Having the same base map in 3 and 4 didn't help things either, as I was already bored of Steelport before the end of 3, and the side stuff felt like such a chore compared to the stuff in SR2.
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
Just realized I put an "always" in the title that shouldn't be there. The way it's worded now makes no sense... oh well.
I'm surprised to see so much disagreement. I remember others sharing this sentiment back in the day, but maybe people were just burned by GTAIV at the time.
I'm surprised to see so much disagreement. I remember others sharing this sentiment back in the day, but maybe people were just burned by GTAIV at the time.
Mass_Pincup
Banned
Saint's Row 2 was the perfect evolution of San Andreas.
It was one of the best open world game of last gen and a great sandbox, absolutely loved the silly characters and the gang aspect.
SR3 devolved a bit from that but was still tolerable, SR4 was straight up bad.
I hope Volition gets quickly to work on a proper Saint's Row akin to 2 after Agents of Mayhem.
It was one of the best open world game of last gen and a great sandbox, absolutely loved the silly characters and the gang aspect.
SR3 devolved a bit from that but was still tolerable, SR4 was straight up bad.
I hope Volition gets quickly to work on a proper Saint's Row akin to 2 after Agents of Mayhem.
That was the main failing of 4. They went full-Neo with the powers but then still tethered you to this standard-ass open world crime game with dumb car missions.
Even still, GTA has never instilled as much joy in me as the best parts of SR3 and 4. GTA simply isn't fun to me, I genuinely fucking hate all Rockstar's characters well beyond the intent of any of their shitty satire. SR3 was big dumb and glorious.
Open-world games live and die on, well, their open worlds. As such, SR 2 and 3 were good, but their open-worlds never touched Rockstar's imo. None of the Saints Row settings ever came close to the breadth and detail of San Andreas, Liberty City, Vice City, and Los Santos.
GTAIV being a rather significant downgrade over San Andreas in the gameplay department left a lot of people cold on the series. Then SR3 came along with its absolute bonkers gameplay, a lot of people embraced it like that's what GTAIV should have been. But then SR4 + Gat Out of Hell kind of shit the bed and Rockstar found GTA's footing again with GTAV (more or less) so the Saints Row love-fest was rather short lived.
GTAIV being a rather significant downgrade over San Andreas in the gameplay department left a lot of people cold on the series. Then SR3 came along with its absolute bonkers gameplay, a lot of people embraced it like that's what GTAIV should have been. But then SR4 + Gat Out of Hell kind of shit the bed and Rockstar found GTA's footing again with GTAV (more or less) so the Saints Row love-fest was rather short lived.
I actually agree with the topic title. I've played several GTA games and never really enjoyed them, but I did recently play SR 2, 3, 4, and Gat out of Hell (or whatever it was called). Found them much better than GTA, but tbh I thought the series peaked at 2. The graphics and such got better, but I found the SR games just got weird (4 was fun with the super powers and such, but dunno it felt weird).
isaacnukem
Member
Nope. GTA's worlds feel authentic while Saints Row worlds feel gamey. Also, I like the realism of GTA more. Also, more fun. There's a reason GTA titles get critical acclaim and still sell after all these years.
The characters aren't great but the thing I really hate about GTA's writing is all the terrible fucking puns in the names of stores and businesses and cars. Hurr, the scooter is called a Faggio, savage.
It's like a 12 year old's idea of edgy... The kind of 12 year old you really fucking hate too.
I only played a bit of Saint's Row 2 and found it a bore. Was much more invested in Saint's Row 3 and actually finished it. Even then though, I think I much prefer GTA over Saint's Row, both before and after SR3.
But even with GTA I'm kind of mixed on it with every game. Overall, I do consider the modern GTA games (IV and V) to be a massive improvement technically in the sprawling urban playground that Rockstar is now able to create. But some cool mechanics from San Andreas were lost in the process. And even between IV and V, I found neither is really better than the other, but both have their stronger and weaker points compared to one another.
Eh, just give me more Red Dead games. I'll take those above all else.
But even with GTA I'm kind of mixed on it with every game. Overall, I do consider the modern GTA games (IV and V) to be a massive improvement technically in the sprawling urban playground that Rockstar is now able to create. But some cool mechanics from San Andreas were lost in the process. And even between IV and V, I found neither is really better than the other, but both have their stronger and weaker points compared to one another.
Eh, just give me more Red Dead games. I'll take those above all else.
GTA never touched SR2 coop either.
NeonZ
Member
I think it's kind of odd to place SR3 and SR4 together. Yeah, SR4 was made from SR3 assets and basically just took things further into its over the top direction, but SR4 is a fundamentally different game. The open world, by then, is basically just a relic that exists due to SR3's assets. It's clear that the focus of the game was entirely on the story missions and the many areas that existed for them, separate from the open world.
I really liked SR3, but SR4 felt unsatisfying due to the open world aspect being so vestigial. Super powers made vehicles pointless, there were very few new vehicles, and most new areas in the open world were just those towers for the platforming segments. The open world missions also generally had no story elements attached to them, unlike in SR3.
I really liked SR3, but SR4 felt unsatisfying due to the open world aspect being so vestigial. Super powers made vehicles pointless, there were very few new vehicles, and most new areas in the open world were just those towers for the platforming segments. The open world missions also generally had no story elements attached to them, unlike in SR3.
Doomedfool
Member
Not for me. I loved the goofy fun of Saint's Row 3 and 4. Hell, 4 is one of my favorite superhero games. Even loved Gat out of Hell, and am looking forward to Agents of Mayhem.
Mass_Pincup
Banned
Not having the means to play Saints Row 1 is still a bother to me.
I hope it'll hit XB1 backwards compatibility one day.
SpookyFries
Member
SR2 is probably one of my favorite last games. Shame what they did to the franchise
Are you kidding me?
More time and effort was put into developing Niko and his cousin as characters than all the characters in Saints Row combined. I understand that just because you like them doesn't make them better but shit I had to comment on this.
It's like proclaiming, The Phantom Menace is better than that outdated Empire shit from the 70's.
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
Characters in SR2 were not as "deep" (and I use that term loosely as open world gangster games aren't exactly classic lit) but were genuinely more entertaining to watch across the course of the game. I never cared about Niko either. I did care when
Carlos
died
Ploid 3.0
Member
I didn't like Niko at all. I also loved the SR2 characters, especially Pierce. They may have spent more time developing GTA4 characters but that work didn't seem to pay off, while Volition kept it simple, and to the point. The simple act of Pierce singing along with the tunes in the car did a lot for his character development, and making him seem relatable.
Same, SR1 multiplayer was fantastic and one of the best console exclusive multiplayer titles of last gen. The series peaked with SR2 and the single player campaign turned out surprisingly great.
Not in any way whatsoever. I like the Saints Row games, and I think they get better as they go on (yes, 4 is the best one), but the characters are ciphers at best with exactly one personality trait each. Hell, they even parody this to some degree in 4 when ass-kicking superbitch Shaundi meets SR1 & 2 "Fun" Shaundi and they're both horrified at the other's one personality trait.
The fixation on one of the most putridly unlikable and uninteresting characters of all time, Johnny Gat, that permeates 3 and 4 is so ludicrously inexplicable that I've always wondered if it was intended as a joke. It's played pretty straight in-universe that the old school Saints absolutely revere the guy, and it never made any sense to me. It has to be a parody of the way shitty action movies and games expect you to care about the cardboard sidekick character they kill off...right?
Saints Row 1 & 2 are fantastic games. Funny characters, great gameplay, good city... I can say they took many good things of PS2 GTA's and put it together...
But the details on every GTA, specially 4 and 5, are miles away from any other sandbox. The architecture, the driving, the NPC's, the world itself.
But the details on every GTA, specially 4 and 5, are miles away from any other sandbox. The architecture, the driving, the NPC's, the world itself.
potatohead
Member
Sr3 by far my fav better than gta v
ronaldthump
Member
SR 4 was fucking incredible. The less you know about it, the better.
MindGamingMantis
Banned
Even the creators knew it wasn't as good as gta. Why else would they have turned it into an open world circus?
