Add to that every horticultural advancement early humans made. They did a ton of science without calling it science. Experimentation, proven results, going with what works, changing things when they found something better.
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51% of Canadians believe religion does more harm than good (up 7% from 2011)
- Thread starter Zombie James
- Start date
Add to that every horticultural advancement early humans made. They did a ton of science without calling it science. Experimentation, proven results, going with what works, changing things when they found something better.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Definitely. Atheists anti-vaxxers are the best examples really.
What? Philosophies can spread like wildfire.
Always-honest
Banned
Thanx, but i'm not so sure ;P. I don't think religion is the cause of all evil. It's inequality and greed in most cases, if i were to guess. People thinking they are more important than other people. Most people just want their pursuit of happiness in peace with others i think. Most people want to make it work. But some want more power. Power in this regard is the ability to force your pursuit to happiness over, and at the cost of, someone else's pursuit to happiness. Not sure why people are so horny for that kind of power. They could just as well use their influence to make it all work and make things better.
I do think religion in general is in the way of scientific progress and even moral progress.
darkinstinct
...lacks reading comprehension.
Church and/or religion funded charities save millions of children each year from dying of famine. The number of people killed in the name of religion each year is lower. So I'd say Canadians are wrong.
Does the not-a-stamp-collector tell everyone he's not a stamp collector at every given opportunity?
Infinite Stars
Member
I'm not defending the horrific victim complex that certain Christian Groups have(seriously, fuck those who think "God's Not Dead" is this MasterCraft of a film), but I've had people clam up when I bring it up in context( IE discussion of news, gets onto the church, they start lambasting the whole faith and I just mention my faith)
My issues again came from "Oh, you told me you're religious that must mean you're stupid". There's nothing to be gained from that attitude. That's all I'm saying. That even that many think that way is insane. I mean, without even getting into specifics, simply telling someone I'm Christian tells them virtually nothing beyond "I believe Jesus was God and Died for our sins". For every single political/Social view in Canada, I could find you a Christian who believes it.
I do wish that Religion was viewed with less hostility, but I am well aware of the atrocities that have been done in the name of God(Residential Schools jump to mind). The general populace is right to think the religious have done more harm, but keep in mind the age of each religion relative to the age of each nation. I just wish that we'd reach a point where telling anyone your religion wouldn't cause any negative responses.
You Are Viewtiful
Member
What if those children are dying of starvation because their parents died from AIDS because their religion told them using protection is wrong?
The poll question is stupid.
I dont think religion does any harm. Crazy people would be crazy whether they went to church or not.
Good people would be good likewise.
That said church is a great social activity for a lot of people especially the elderly and in that way it definitely does more good than bad.
I dont think religion does any harm. Crazy people would be crazy whether they went to church or not.
Good people would be good likewise.
That said church is a great social activity for a lot of people especially the elderly and in that way it definitely does more good than bad.
its 2017 ... not 1617 ..... or I would have reported you to Church Elders...
Chmpocalypse
Blizzard
Impeccable
Member
What?
There are countless social issues that wouldn't be issues if it wasn't for religion.
A lot of those people are in that position to begin with because of religion.
As I said earlier, "I don't believe in god" is a lack of belief, and "I believe there is no god" is a belief.
Maybe it would be better if we split atheism into two camps: Atheists, and antitheists.
WaterAstro
Member
A lot of scientific progress was made by religious people.
The reason why there is a belief that religion is stopping science and evolution belief is because of stupid sects of Christianity, that have no business of being an organization, is using disinformation and fear to drive people to their church for monetary reasons.
Hephaestus
Member
They would if stamp collectors influenced and made laws that said you cant marry or fuck certain people that collect the wrong stamps.
Oh, so religion causes famine now?
This is such a terrible argument. You can excuse ANYTHING with this argument. If it wasn't racism, people would find other reasons to hate each other. If it wasn't fascism, people would still find reasons to think others are inferior. That doesn't excuse anything.
But religion always get this defense. Nobody would say "but but without fascism people would find sports to hate on each other!!!"
Not equating religion to ay of those two, just illustrating why this argument is stupid.
Chmpocalypse
Blizzard
The interesting thing is that everyone is agnostic - because there is no supporting corroborative evidence of the claims of any religion. As a result, there are no gnostic believers in existence.
SkeptiMism
Member
Semantically maybe so if you want to be completely accurate, but in practice it's fairly interchangeable and that's how they're used often. And colloquially that makes sense too, since if you don't believe in god, then you believe there is no god. If you believe there is no god, then you don't believe in god.
Either way, in practice I wouldn't classify it as a belief to be honest. Part of the world view of the person holding that view, but not a belief any more than "I believe there are no unicorns", as in not really active denial (any more than believing there are no unicorns) but taking the position because the person doesn't see any reason to believe. I don't really see much point in classifying such views as beliefs. You're free to do that though but it does seem pretty meaningless don't you think?
I don't believe in god, but I can't categorically dismiss the possible existence of one/ones, so I can't say I believe there is no god.
That's why I prefer using the term agnostic, personally.
Polioliolio
Member
The expected response from someone who lives in a religiously bent society.
yanipheonu
Member
It's actually interesting that a more multicultural society seems to foster anti-relgious sentiment. Which makes sense, insisting on imposing a specific religious view seems to run counter to a multicultural democracy.
Not to mention it doesn't exactly jive with a worldview that has experienced multiple perfectly good cultural viewpoints that don't seem to lock into any one religion.
Not to mention it doesn't exactly jive with a worldview that has experienced multiple perfectly good cultural viewpoints that don't seem to lock into any one religion.
Do stamp collectors indoctrinate children and force their hobby on other people?
You Are Viewtiful
Member
Yemeni famine is 100% because of religion.
Boko Haram more or less is the cause for the famine in Nigeria atm. Same for Somalia and the various Islamist groups from there.
The South Sudan famine is also indirectly because of religion. If Sudan didn't try to start a war there because they thought they were non-Muslim heathens, it wouldn't be as unstable today.
SolidSnakex
Member
Can you really measure the amount of damage done by religious groups that go to Africa to preach abstinence and deny condoms?
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Atheists don't do that at all. It's the opposite over here (Québec), everyone's pretty much assumed to be an atheist until someone says they are Christian or whatever so the subject never comes up.
SkeptiMism
Member
Almost every single atheist doesn't actually deny the theoretical possibility of some kind of supernatural god existing. The possibility is just so insignificant that there's no reason to separate the "I believe there is no god" and "I believe there is no god". Again, the same goes for magical unicorns. You can't really completely dismiss the theoretical possibility of them existing somehow, but in practice you believe they don't exist.
But anyway, the graph that Neece linked is a decent one. Your position seems to be in line with what vast majority of atheists actually believe. That is, they can't prove there is no god so they don't claim to know it for 100.00% sure without any possibility, but they don't believe it exists. You being agnostic doesn't describe what you believe, it just describes what you know.
Maybe not stamp collectors, but I've seen a lot of adult geeks try to force their kids into liking the same geeky stuff they like.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
And adult jocks never try to force their kids into the same sports they like?
The problem is still that atheism is a catch-all term that groups people like me in with internet neckbeards, and people like my dad, who staunchly deny the existence of god. Even if they are a small minority, they're the loudest of the group.
Oh, they do too. So do music snobs, hippies, vegetarians, etc.
Sgt. Kabukiman
Banned
I wonder what a poll like this would look like in Europe.
The sooner humanity moves past organized religion the better.
The sooner humanity moves past organized religion the better.
The size of all major religions are growing steadily and are expected to increase in growth rate. Certain western countries are becoming more secular.
Yes, comparing passing on subjective interests with indoctrination. Nice analogy.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
No, most not-a-stamp-collectors do not tell others about their lack of a hobby. But 1/100 not-a-stamp-collectors do brag about it, and because they are the only visible ones, they come to incorrectly typify not-a-stamp-collectors to others.
I'm sure the vast majority of atheists never talk about their atheism. The whole "fedora" or "Reddit atheists" coming to typify atheists is a false impression. Vocal atheists are a tiny minority of people who don't subscribe to religion.
Not that talking about atheism is bad, either. But most atheists are invisible.
yanipheonu
Member
There are plenty of intelligent people who have argued that expecting humanity to "grow out" of religion is a flawed premise.
It could even be considered unscientific. Is there any indication humans are tending away from religion? Is there any feasible way we could get rid of relgion? Would such a thing even be ethical?
I respect the atheist position. I just don't accept the theory we'll be rid of religion any time soon. Doesn't seem to sync up with reality.
SolarMystic
Member
Another point for Canada.
"You don't like Star Wars? YOU'RE NO SON OF MINE! GET OUT!"
NeoZeedeater
Member
Exactly. And I think "vocal atheists" are far more likely to American than Canadian because (I assume) they feel the need to backlash against a dominant religious culture. Canadian atheists typically don't have that persecuted feeling.
Religion can be a source for good but so many men and women twist it to fit their needs, their view points, their greed, their lust, their bid for power. In the end they always rewrite what they believe to better fit their point of view. Twist it around into a grosser perversion. And later when it's not enough they twist it to pervert it even more to feed an extreme when the former is not extreme enough any longer. Is not conservative enough to suit the needs of that day.
I'm an agnostic atheist myself. I don't fault those who believe, it can give them peace. It's when they use it against other people I dislike religion.
I'm an agnostic atheist myself. I don't fault those who believe, it can give them peace. It's when they use it against other people I dislike religion.
Sgt. Kabukiman
Banned
Oh I don't believe that either. Just wishful thinking on my part.
I don't want to be a part of any religion, so how would I go about getting out of the religion of atheism?
Sgt. Kabukiman
Banned
No, that's the point. I'd like to see the results per country.
farmerboy
Member
Thankyou for this. An entirely reasonable arguement that sees it for what it is. As a man of faith, I have found this thread and its disdain for religion bothersome, which I don't entirely blame, as the organised religions and their hierachy aren't exactly doing a great job lately.
All I'll say though is this. Your beliefs and spirituality are only ever truly owned by you. For you only. Science and its gifts are owned by the few. And they too have twisted it and monetized it for their own gain to the detriment of us all. Weapons of war, the destruction of the planet through climate change, consumerist culture; all and more brought about directly and indirectly by science.
So before you look down your noses at us religious folk, consider what harm your science does as well, and how it too has been twisted for profit and gain.
SyenceLabb
Member
Can you show receipts?