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NeoGAF will always respect women/racial minorities/lgbt

T

TumblingHippo

Member
It's clear that many gamers don't want to have to deal with the reality that women, minorities or LGBT gamers exist. Maybe you can hope that after this initial wave of shitposting things will get better, but a lot of the most supportive mods are either gone now or hiding.

I hope it gets better, but right now, the thread title rings hollow.
 
S

see5harp

Member
CrimzonSamurai said:
It's not even about the inability to use racial slurs, it's the fact that this was one of the very few places that discussions surrounding minority representation in media could be had without it turning into a shitshow at all. Slurs or no slurs.

Like I'm fine with "just talking about video games." Hey, guess what? Social and political issues are important in the construction of narratives in video games. Like Wolfenstein New Collossus or Metro 2033 have deep and political stories to tell. Can't have that here any more though.

Like just imagine what this place will look like when Far Cry 5 comes out.

"Man I really feel like they did a good job portraying the type of isolated rural space that churns out some of America's worst political and religious impulses." = bannable.

Basically just reduced to talking about control schemes and graphical fidelity for any narrative based game.
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To be honest, I am mostly here for the non gaming stuff in general. I can make up my own mind about the games I play. I don't think games do a very good job of telling stories or posing questions. In most cases the games I play eventually do get reduced down to the graphics, art, and frame rate. I'm here to talk about how awful the Wu Tang album is and fast food news.
 
C

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
Sorcerer Supreme said:
the anita dick riding has always been pathetic on here. she has absolutely no credibility when it comes to criticizing video games but people treated her shitty high school video essays like it was the gospel. if it was anyone else they would be laughed at.
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Yea man, no credibility at all, her work surely didn't directly influence not just some of the most well known devs like ND but the industry as a whole. Honestly, it said so much about the state of gaming years ago that such obvious and cringey tropes were so easily pointed out since they were so prevalent.
 
P

psychowave

Member
Captiosus said:
I dunno man. Have you been checking in on the sticky thread and the Waypoint thread? In the former, a Junior member (2016 sign up year) recently defended Evilore's statement by posting a version of the specious "a woman can merely accuse a man and ruin his life" argument. I mean, that's some bog standard anti-woman stuff right there, factually incorrect and generally the starting point for future open hostility towards women.
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Yeah. It's honestly scary and disheartening. GAF was the only gaming site I visited because it was generally decent towards women and minorities. Right now it might as well be another subreddit.
 
C

ckaneo

Member
Subpar Spatula said:
What challenges her views? What are the opposite? The criticisms were pretty obvious attempts to not actually engage her points. It's a lot of "high school essay", "she didn't even play those games", etc. What would a debate look like? "You don't know how many damsels there are!"

Like, the argument against isn't a good one. We all know this.

Like, if you can PM 10 solid arguments against Anita's arguments then maybe I'll listen but she gives you plenty and there's almost none against that aren't about just tearing her down.
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I'm not gonna pretend I follow Anita so I cant answer these questions, but the reply could have simply been she doesnt need to be challenge.

That doesnt warrant a ban though. Have that discussion with the poster who asked
 
T

tiredheadcrab

Member
Lights and Waves said:
Very well put. The strict moderation was a breath of fresh air. It’s great to see a gaming forum where every other word isn’t the n word or the f word. I’m just hoping the community can rebuild and that GAF’s leadership does what’s right.
Click to expand...

What forums or discussion boards have you visited recently? I am on most gaming reddits and some tech site forums and hardly if ever see that language thrown around.
 
S

starmud

Member
As a minority I’ll gladly get back to you when gaf supports me openly being mocked for who I am :p

One of the reasons I’ve stuck with gaf is the very reason that I can post whatever without getting the usual dumbass dribble responses you get elsewhere.

As a whole for now though, is it really that bad the forums go back to being about video games first?
 
W

Wordstar

Neo Member
The best way going forward is this being a gaming forum period. No more drama. stuff happens everyday. There are forums for all kinds of things if you want to discuss that sort of thing. I need a pure gaming forum.
 
riskVSreward

riskVSreward

Member
This really isn't the end of the world. There's gonna be more open disagreements, but it's not gonna suddenly devolve into 4chan. A lot of people have jumped the gun on this one.
 
X

x24hrs2livex

Banned
Neece said:
Did you say it wasn't music?
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Funny you say that, I have a friend who told me rap wasn't music. He put on some rock music from the 80s, Guns&Roses maybe or ACDC. He was adamant that real music was played with instruments and rap was done with computers. He said the rhyming wasn't music because anyone can rhyme words together but not everyone can shred a guitar.

Thats the last time I hang out with a crackhead.
 
N

Neece

Member
Johnny Cage In The Shower said:
I was just trying to give an example of how much of a pile on, hive mind the OT can be... and I think I made my point, even if the dude ended up lying about why he got banned...

would he have been banned if it said "rap music deafens and destroys my ears" instead of "rape" my ears? Maybe? may be not.. Would he had lot of people piling on him for saying that and calling him out as being "casual racist" etc.. Oh you bet!
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But your example was bad and you didn't come close to proving your point, which is why you have pivoted to a different point. People are allowed to challenge statements and ask people to defend their views. It's the entire point of a discussion forum.
 
D

distrbnce

Banned
If you understand why casual rape jokes aren’t funny, then you really shouldn’t continue supporting evilore.

I hope you all find somewhere better. I’m out!
 
Kacho

Kacho

Gold Member
ckaneo said:
Yeah, but the problem isnt respecting minorities/lgbt

You have to be blind or deaf to not acknowledge Neogaf has a clear problem when it comes to being an echo chamber, over-empowered mods, and what can only be described as a toxic environment for dissenting opinions. Even ones with good intentions. Homophobic and racist individuals should be banned outright, but neo gaf had an environment where I could have been banned for defending Evilore. (not that I am, just an example).
Click to expand...

There is no middle ground for a lot of GAF members. You're either an in your face liberal or literally hitler.

PICK A SIDE GOD DAMMIT OR ILL JUST ASSUME THE WORST
 
Subpar Spatula

Subpar Spatula

Banned
ckaneo said:
I'm not gonna pretend I follow Anita so I cant answer these questions, but the reply could have simply been she doesnt need to be challenge.

That doesnt warrant a ban though. Have that discussion with the poster who asked
Click to expand...

You go into a thread about specific issues in the industry regarding women and you post something like, "Does she debate? Has she ever been challenged?" -- it's shit posting. Those threads even had mod edits in red text telling you not to do what he posted. He didn't read. He got banned.

PhoReal said:
There is no middle ground for a lot of GAF members. You're either an in your face liberal or literally hitler.

PICK A SIDE GOD DAMMIT OR ILL JUST ASSUME THE WORST
Click to expand...

When was someone accused of being literally Hitler or a NAZI? I'm sure people were called out because they said some pretty dubious or offensive shit. However, I doubt many people will accept that they said those things because, well, stupid SJWs and all.
 
W

WhiskeyKnight

Member
Lights and Waves said:
Very well put. The strict moderation was a breath of fresh air. It's great to see a gaming forum where every other word isn't the n word or the f word. I'm just hoping the community can rebuild and that GAF's leadership does what's right.
Click to expand...

tiredheadcrab said:
What forums or discussion boards have you visited recently? I am on most gaming reddits and some tech site forums and hardly if ever see that language thrown around.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that is some serious hyperbole. You make gaming culture sound like the Daily Stormer and I'm sorry but it just isn't like that.
 
T

TumblingHippo

Member
Wordstar said:
The best way going forward is this being a gaming forum period. No more drama. stuff happens everyday. There are forums for all kinds of things if you want to discuss that sort of thing. I need a pure gaming forum.
Click to expand...

That's boring shit. Go to gameFAQs instead and let me discuss LGBT topics in regards to video games all day here. If GAF became a "pure" gaming forum, it'll be purely boring.

Also doesn't change the creeping feeling this site is owned by a creeper.
 
K

kittenbreath

Member
Sorcerer Supreme said:
the anita dick riding has always been pathetic on here. she has absolutely no credibility when it comes to criticizing video games but people treated her shitty high school video essays like it was the gospel. if it was anyone else they would be laughed at.
Click to expand...

Cool to see exactly which type of poster is being emboldened by the site's change in direction
 
W

Wamb0wneD

Member
psychowave said:
Only a tiny minority of sexual assault accusations are false. Women who speak out about rape or sexual assault accusations are rarely believed (though this is slowly changing). I'll take the chance.
Click to expand...

And I would be a reasonable human being and don't dismiss the accusation while also not crying rape (which didn't happen) like many here do.

I have a problem witgh supporting Evilore financially trhough klicks while this is not solved in any shape or form, but I won't take sides just because it's the popular thing to do in the circles I frequent.
Because the fact that women aren't believed as often as they should leads to your mindset where you believe random posts on the internet. If I were to say "Yeah there was this incident where that asshole harrassed me in the shower, google psychowave." And a whole mob would be after you just because, I'm sure you'd still would be OK with that mentality right?
 
Subpar Spatula

Subpar Spatula

Banned
WhiskeyKnight said:
Yeah, that is some serious hyperbole. You make gaming culture sound like the Daily Stormer and I'm sorry but it just isn't like that.
Click to expand...

Eh, Reddit, 4chan, and pretty much any other big or well known gaming forum is a hive of racism, misogyny, and gamergaters.

Heck, you can't even go to /v/ without being called the N or F word.

Go to Twitch and whenever a black person appears you see the black emote. You see the Arab emote when a brown person or anything resembling a bomb is shown.

But hey, those places don't count.
 
C

ckaneo

Member
Subpar Spatula said:
You go into a thread about specific issues in the industry regarding women and you post something like, "Does she debate? Has she ever been challenged?" -- it's shit posting. Those threads even had mod edits in red text telling you not to do what he posted. He didn't read. He got banned.
Click to expand...


Yeah, I think the point is the environment shouldnt be that black and white by the mods. Let the discussions be had about why she doesn't have to debate.
 
S

Steeped in a Sea of Games

Member
TumblingHippo said:
That's boring shit. Go to gameFAQs instead and let me discuss LGBT topics in regards to video games all day here. If GAF became a "pure" gaming forum, it'll be purely boring.

Also doesn't change the creeping feeling this site is owned by a creeper.
Click to expand...

Gamefaqs isn't just gaming these days. Gamergaters have infiltrated nearly all facets of the place thanks to lax moderation standards under the banner of 'all 'opinions' hold equal weight'.
 
P

Poltergust

Member
Wordstar said:
The best way going forward is this being a gaming forum period. No more drama. stuff happens everyday. There are forums for all kinds of things if you want to discuss that sort of thing. I need a pure gaming forum.
Click to expand...

This is an empty statement. You can't divorce gaming from politics because in doing so you basically stifle any kind of discussion for improving games as a medium. What would NeoGAF be then?

Furthermore, this was one of the only sites that allowed for gaming enthusiasts of all genders, orientations, and ethnicities to gather together in a safe environment that respects those people as... people. Women can come here and not expect to be hit on all the time. Black people can come here and not be called the n-word. LGBT+ people can come here and expect to be treated with as much respect as any straight person.

Will NeoGAF be able to continue to do this sort of thing moving forward? Signs right now are pointing to "no".
 
Subpar Spatula

Subpar Spatula

Banned
ckaneo said:
Yeah, I think the point is the environment shouldnt be that black and white by the mods. Let the discussions be had about why she doesn't have to debate.
Click to expand...

Discussion was being had. People who were articulating why her arguments weren't sound didn't get banned. You are not banned for disagreeing with someone. You get banned for dismissing arguments and putting down people in threads centered around that person's arguments.

You see it more black and white than I do.
 
J

Jeels

Member
NimbusD said:
yeah i've already seen a few threads closed that were meant to butt up against this new rule, but otherwise completely innocuous. Really dissapointing. sexual orientation and minority reprisentation are considered 'political'.

coming from a place that had a fucking marriage equality logo not too long ago. How quickly the tides turn when dear leader has
Click to expand...

It's really upsetting how quickly everything has changed...
 
C

CrimzonSamurai

Member
You guys act like people who got dogpiled or banned in OT posted well-reasoned and thoughtful arguments from a conservative position. That's not what it was like at all. And I spent 99.9% of my time in OT, instead of just occasionally drifting over there.

The majority of those people didn't have good conservative arguments they were just being lazily contrarian. Like you post some actual statistics about private enterprise and capitalism having demonstrable benefits to standards of living and nobody would dog pile you for that. I know, because I've done that.
 
W

WhiskeyKnight

Member
Subpar Spatula said:
Eh, Reddit, 4chan, and pretty much any other big or well known gaming forum is a hive of racism, misogyny, and gamergaters.

Heck, you can't even go to /v/ without being called the N or F word.

Go to Twitch and whenever a black person appears you see the black emote. You see the Arab emote when a brown person or anything resembling a bomb is shown.

But hey, those places don't count.
Click to expand...

I spend a lot of time on Reddit and don't see that language hardly at all.

For sure, you're obviously definitely right about 4chan. Not really sure I'd classify that as a gaming forum though.
 
N

Novoitus

Banned
psychowave said:
Yeah. It's honestly scary and disheartening. GAF was the only gaming site I visited because it was generally decent towards women and minorities. Right now it might as well be another subreddit.
Click to expand...

Maybe you should just get off the internet. Live in a little corner

But if this place doesn't start banning people for saying pro LGBT is political, then there's no future here.
 
W

Wordstar

Neo Member
TumblingHippo said:
That's boring shit. Go to gameFAQs instead and let me discuss LGBT topics in regards to video games all day here. If GAF became a "pure" gaming forum, it'll be purely boring.

Also doesn't change the creeping feeling this site is owned by a creeper.
Click to expand...

People stop making allegations. No court has proven anything. Evilore is innocent until proven guilty. Thats just the way it is.
 
Faynwulf

Faynwulf

Member
What did he mean by this? said:
Maybe until bish left
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You mean the bish that fostered his own little group on here?

Where every post trying to start a conversation got answered with a gif of Samuel L. Jackson swinging a "banhammer"? That one? Let me laught a bit more. Almost as funny as him trying to get a conversation with Sam Jackson going.
As if the man would give a fuck about some random dude using his picture on a videogame board.

I always ignored the Anita threads. Asking questions in those threads got you banned instantly. Same as critisizing any point in her videos. And some of the conclusions she came up with were quite crazy. Literally.
I don't know why anyone is surprised that an Echo Champer would want to silence any critique against her, when most of the posts in those threads could be boiled down to: "YAAAAAS Queen Anita!!!! SLAAAAAY."
I mean come on.
 
N

Neece

Member
x24hrs2livex said:
Funny you say that, I have a friend who told me rap wasn't music. He put on some rock music from the 80s, Guns&Roses maybe or ACDC. He was adamant that real music was played with instruments and rap was done with computers. He said the rhyming wasn't music because anyone can rhyme words together but not everyone can shred a guitar.

Thats the last time I hang out with a crackhead.
Click to expand...

I always love when that argument is put forth so I can ask "what about The Roots?""

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFWPCaUOxYQ

giphy.gif
 
S

Silent_Ocarina

Member
It's seriously ironic that the behavior that NeoGAF fostered for years is what ended up splitting up the forum. It's really bizarre. Up until now I did not know so many people hated NeoGAF. I knew there were haters, but I just chalked that up to people upset at their banning or people who were never verified. It wasn't until yesterday that I truly evaluated what NeoGAF was like.

There are a lot of volatile discussions that appear in Off-Topic, like sexual harassment harassment or police brutality. There was a hivemind that seemed to always condemn the alleged perpetrator, and I truly and honestly participated in the hivemind, albeit in my head. "There's no way he would have died if he were white." "That guy who assaulted her is scum." Those are just some examples of ideas that came to my head when I read the many, many news articles. And in those threads, it seemed like most people agreed. If you questioned anything you'd be hounded until you left the thread. At that time even I thought, "Come on, don't be obtuse" more than once. I guess I was just a part of GAF's hivemind. Sometimes those people who questioned would be banned, further validating my thoughts.

But now, the owner of the site was accused of sexual harassment. And I'm shocked at how differently his story is turning out. You have half of the forum condemning him like they would any other man who did what he was accused of doing. And you have the other half brushing off the concerns of the former half. And its the former half getting banned. A complete reversal of what I had been conditioned to believe on NeoGAF.

NeoGAF influenced me in the many years I have been here. Especially during election time, I was influenced to see things in black and white. If you supported Trump, you supported racism, bigotry, sexism, and all those other things. You couldn't be a decent person and support Trump. There were some things I would bend on yet would be too afraid to voice my opinion, like the whole Link being a girl thing mentioned above. I guess this taught me that every situation is different and we must be prepared to take a nuanced approach to it as well as be a little more receptive to different opinions.

It kinda sucks that what made me realize that is something that exposes the ultimate hypocrisy of NeoGAF. Sorry if I came off as rambling. So many thoughts are in my head right now that it's a little difficult to piece them together in a coherent post. Just wanted to air out my thoughts.
 
TLZ

TLZ

Banned
Modbot please for the love of God close these off topic threads.

This is the GAMING discussion forum.
 
S

SuperDowns

Banned
The environment now will be a culture of everyone calling everyone else a SJW for not being a racist/sexist and being progressive in anyway.

You want SJWs out of your gaming discussion? I want conservative apathy out of my games. It’s not wrong to want proper representation, no misognany and actual empathy for people. If you have such a shitty, entitled life that you don’t have time for that... guess what I have no time for you and your shit opinion.

Case in point the guy above me. How nice to not have to think about anything approaching progress. Aren’t you a special snowflake. Does it hurt your delicate little eyes?!
 
J

Jeels

Member
TumblingHippo said:
If you're the future of GAF then it's no place worth fighting for.
Click to expand...

TLZ said:
Modbot please for the love of God close these off topic threads.

This is the GAMING discussion forum.
Click to expand...

SuperDowns said:
The environment now will be a culture of everyone calling everyone else a SJW for not being a racist/sexist and being progressive in anyway.

You want SJWs out of your gaming discussion? I want conservative apathy out of my games. It’s not wrong to want proper representation, no misognany and actual empathy for people. If you have such a shitty, entitled life that you don’t have time for that... guess what I have no time for you and your shit opinion.
Click to expand...

All of these posts are showing in different ways why these new policies aren't working. Please reconsider. This is all falling apart.
 
C

ChimpBottle

Member
PhoReal said:
There is no middle ground for a lot of GAF members. You're either an in your face liberal or literally hitler.

PICK A SIDE GOD DAMMIT OR ILL JUST ASSUME THE WORST
Click to expand...

And the low-effort response if you don't is "BOTH SIDES"

I don't think the extreme left is more harmful than the extreme right and I don't think a neo-nazi deserves a "Let's hear him out". But some leftist ideology does deserve criticism, and it is not only fair but it is integral that we are always criticizing faulty ideas. I can't remember ever seeing that sort of thing on NeoGAF without a response of outrage.

When it becomes risky to post "I don't think it's racist for white people to use black people emojis" that's when you have a toxic environment.
 
Link

Link

The Autumn Wind
CrimzonSamurai said:
You guys act like people who got dogpiled or banned in OT posted well-reasoned and thoughtful arguments from a conservative position. That's not what it was like at all. And I spent 99.9% of my time in OT, instead of just occasionally drifting over there.

The majority of those people didn't have good conservative arguments they were just being lazily contrarian. Like you post some actual statistics about private enterprise and capitalism having demonstrable benefits to standards of living and nobody would dog pile you for that. I know, because I've done that.
Click to expand...
For real. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills when people complain about what a "radical left" community this was that banned anyone with a dissenting opinion. For the most part, in regards to people getting banned, it was usually just people making shitty arguments or being purposely antagonistic.
 
W

WhiskeyKnight

Member
CrimzonSamurai said:
You guys act like people who got dogpiled or banned in OT posted well-reasoned and thoughtful arguments from a conservative position. That's not what it was like at all. And I spent 99.9% of my time in OT, instead of just occasionally drifting over there.

The majority of those people didn't have good conservative arguments they were just being lazily contrarian. Like you post some actual statistics about private enterprise and capitalism having demonstrable benefits to standards of living and nobody would dog pile you for that. I know, because I've done that.
Click to expand...

I guess I would ask -- why should someone be banned for a bad argument? If someone is being lazily contrarian, it should be rather trivial to point out the flaws in their position. Instead, the first instinct of the mods was to ban first and ask questions later. I found it to be incredibly intimidating and antithetical to the very concept of a "discussion" board.
 
P

Poppy

Member
evilore only gives a shit about keeping that discussion open while people aren't being critical of his dumb ass.

i can't believe i tried so hard and burned through 3 accounts just to have everything end up with the stupid fuckshit owner showing what a hypocritical asshole he is. yeah, ban discussion on anything social or political when you suddenly find yourself under the spotlight. real FUCKING HONEST YOU PRICK

it sucks knowing it was fake at the top all along, but i guess i shouldn't be surprised. oh well, i never did get to make the good friends i wanted to make, but there are plenty of people i thought were smart and funny that posted here. and i'm sure they're gone, and so am i. fuck you, asshole
 
Faynwulf

Faynwulf

Member
TumblingHippo said:
That's boring shit. Go to gameFAQs instead and let me discuss LGBT topics in regards to video games all day here. If GAF became a "pure" gaming forum, it'll be purely boring.

Also doesn't change the creeping feeling this site is owned by a creeper.
Click to expand...

Nothing against talking about those in the Off-Topic.
But it gets tiring when so many gaming discussions get derailed. One moment people are talking about gameplay. And the next moment someone derails the thread asking why every Assassins Creed protagonist needs to be cisgendered.
Really? You think that will help LGBT issues?
 
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