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I now understand why some of you have become a bit cynical towards games media.

gogosox8

Member
This quote from IGN's Titanfall preview cracks me up every time:



You WILL buy an XBO for Titanfall, even if you have a PC capable rig for it, because REASONS! Xbox ecosystem! YOU CAN NEVER GO BACK!

Of course people will interpret calling out absurd self-perpetuating media driven overhype as a critique of Titanfall's quality, but it's not. I said this same shit over the ridiculous way IGN jerked off all over GTA5 during its Grand Theft Auto week.

There is no such thing as perspective apparently with these guys.

Before I click on the link, $5 says Ryan McCaffrey wrote this. This guy is such an ms shill, I wouldn't be suprised if he wrote something that ridiculous and over the top. Still remember his halo 4 review when said something to the effect of halo 4 being the best fps ever invented which was just ridiculous and knew I couldn't take anything this guy said seriously from that point forward.

Edit: I fucking knew it was him. You guys owe me $5 now
j/k sort of :)
 

Shin-Ra

Junior Member
This quote from IGN's Titanfall preview cracks me up every time:

Ryan McCaffrey said:
This is Microsoft’s killer app. You will buy an Xbox One for Titanfall, and you should. Sure, you’d have a good time with it on PC if you’ve got a capable rig, but your couch and the Xbox Live community will be the ecosystem it’s best enjoyed in. It likely won’t decimate Call of Duty’s market share anytime soon – particularly since it’s a platform exclusive – but once Titanfall releases this spring, I guarantee you that word will spread amongst the hardcore CoD community. “Have you seen Titanfall?” they’ll say. And little by little – or maybe in droves, who knows? – they will flock to Titanfall, and they will never go back. Not after this. Titanfall is the next great evolution of the twitch-action first-person shooter. Believe the hype.

You WILL buy an XBO for Titanfall, even if you have a PC capable rig for it, because REASONS! Xbox ecosystem! YOU CAN NEVER GO BACK!

Of course people will interpret calling out absurd self-perpetuating media driven overhype as a critique of Titanfall's quality, but it's not. I said this same shit over the ridiculous way IGN jerked off all over GTA5 during its Grand Theft Auto week.

There is no such thing as perspective apparently with these guys.
ibtRlQjbxQUkef.gif


Sounds all too familiar.
 

gogosox8

Member
Community question -- this thread is being tagged back to SCEA management, specifically looking at the answer to this.

How would you all feel about SCEA dropping exclusive trailers, exclusive screenshot(s), etc on GAF first in the appropriate thread instead of the usual gaming journalistic sites? Assuming the moderators said that was ok. (would it be ok mods?) I know SCEA really don't want to look like marketing hacks ... but I've been pushing them to at least try passing on exclusives here directly rather than going the circular route through gaming sites.

You know the saying GAF - Internet - GAF. With that said, it's a fine line. So if we dropped something, no PR release no "OMG THIS IS AMAZING BLAHBLAH" .... maybe just "here GAF, new Trailer for Infamous <link>".

I wouldn't have a problem with this as long as its just the trailer, screenshot, etc and no pr nonsense.
 
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/ryan-mccaffrey/40/356/942?_mSplash=1

He's spent most of his career writing in favor of MS.

The lack of objectivity in this so-called form of "journalism" bothers me a great deal. And if you're going to be a blatant, unabashed fanboy...at least be fucking honest and forthcoming about it.

Ryan sits there and gives a half-hearted "WTF" reaction to the MS bullshit during their infamous Xbone press conference...then brushes it off, then applauds them for back peddling, won't acknowledge the shortcomings of the Xbone, and then has a "video discussion" with Greg Miller talking about his decision to not get a PS4 after all.
 

Ranger X

Member
The guy at IGN is having some extremely shitty eyeballs. Mines are processing FUCKING REAL LIFE without a breaking a sweat. I mean, how much polygons is that? And the sun's lighting techniques are much more advanced than Titanfall
 

Amir0x

Banned
Ryan_IGN said:
For allegedly hating me so much, you guys seem to spend an awful lot of time thinking and talking about me.

Hate isn't the word, but it's classic misdirection to avoid the core point people are making about your writing and try to go for the victim card.

Nobody hates you because you're a fanboy Ryan. That'd be ridiculous. I'm not even sure how hate would come into this discussion about thinking your free advertisement for Titanfall was shit writing. It's gaming, you didn't kill any puppies. It's not serious in that way.
 

Ryan_IGN

Member
Hate isn't the word, but it's classic misdirection to avoid the core point people are making about your writing and try to go for the victim card.

Nobody hates you because you're a fanboy Ryan. That'd be ridiculous. I'm not even sure how hate would come into this discussion about thinking your free advertisement for Titanfall was shit writing.

Who's playing a victim? This is an eight-page thread over a descriptor I used the first time I played a video game I really enjoyed. If you don't like my writing style, that's fine. Don't read my stuff. It would be silly and naive to think that everyone will like me or everything (or even anything) I do. But plenty of people do enjoy my work. So to each their own.
 

sonicmj1

Member
This quote from IGN's Titanfall preview cracks me up every time:



You WILL buy an XBO for Titanfall, even if you have a PC capable rig for it, because REASONS! Xbox ecosystem! YOU CAN NEVER GO BACK!

Of course people will interpret calling out absurd self-perpetuating media driven overhype as a critique of Titanfall's quality, but it's not. I said this same shit over the ridiculous way IGN jerked off all over GTA5 during its Grand Theft Auto week.

There is no such thing as perspective apparently with these guys.

Greg Miller's hyperbolic reviews of Uncharted 3 and Dead Space 2 are better than this, because at least he doesn't pretend to speak for anybody other than himself.
 
Who's playing a victim? This is an eight-page thread over a descriptor I used the first time I played a video game I really enjoyed. If you don't like my writing style, that's fine. Don't read my stuff. It would be silly and naive to think that everyone will like me or everything (or even anything) I do. But plenty of people do enjoy my work. So to each their own.

This is almost too much for my eyeballs to process.
 

stryke

Member
This quote from IGN's Titanfall preview cracks me up every time:



You WILL buy an XBO for Titanfall, even if you have a PC capable rig for it, because REASONS! Xbox ecosystem! YOU CAN NEVER GO BACK!

Of course people will interpret calling out absurd self-perpetuating media driven overhype as a critique of Titanfall's quality, but it's not. I said this same shit over the ridiculous way IGN jerked off all over GTA5 during its Grand Theft Auto week.

There is no such thing as perspective apparently with these guys.

This is absolutely nauseating. I'm not going to throw all of IGN under the bus (their work on doing histories on studios are very well done) but I'll certainly avoid giving any attention to Ryan McCaffrey.

The last thing we need is a "gaming journalist" to start believing they know what's best for us and start telling us what to do.
 

Amir0x

Banned
Who's playing a victim? This is an eight-page thread over a descriptor I used the first time I played a video game I really enjoyed. If you don't like my writing style, that's fine. Don't read my stuff. It would be silly and naive to think that everyone will like me or everything (or even anything) I do. But plenty of people do enjoy my work. So to each their own.

*sigh*

OK, let me try to break it down differently because I see where this is going.

Ryan, it is perfectly fine to write about how much you love Titanfall. By most accounts, Titanfall is a great game to the majority of people who play it.

People take issue with the following way you "colored" your assessment:

(1) That you must play it on Xbox One because of the Xbox ecosystem, even over the alternatives which would clearly offer superior gaming experience (visuals, control options, online functionality etc). That's before discussing the numerous ways in which the actual Xbox One has problems with its ecosystem that have only begun to start being patched out. It'd make more sense to tell people to play it on Xbox 360 if that was your reason. Given that the article was written in August, it's even worse because you literally just gave Microsoft the benefit of the doubt they'd be awesome at everything regarding their ecosystem, even after weeks and weeks and months of seriously concerning reports about the development of XBO and all the 180s. You just up and said "fuck it, trust me the ecosystem will be awesome!" Again, what service does this provide to readers?

(2) That somehow playing on a "comfy couch" is exclusive to Xbox, or consoles. It's easier than setting up a VCR to play your PC games on your TV and from your couch.

(3) That it's peppered with effusive language that does no one any service in explaining the reason for this hype, but stands more to perpetuate the cycle of hype than to justify it. At least a third of your article is dedicated to just that sort of language.

I mean what you said could be said of anything people dislike. "Sure, the third Transformers movie is hated by some. By others like it. It is what it is!"

That's not a very constructive discussion on why people have problems with it, right?

Edit: I'm going to bed, and I don't want you to feel like I just want to attack you. Your quote is illustrative of a problem that is prevalent in many media previews for games. And you're right, many people eat it up and give it clicks. That's part of the problem. But to me it's important to discuss these things, even if nothing will change.
 
*sigh*

OK, let me try to break it down differently because I see where this is going.

Ryan, it is perfectly fine to write about how much you love Titanfall. By most accounts, Titanfall is a great game to the majority of people who play it.

People take issue with the following way you "colored" your assessment:

(1) That you must play it on Xbox One because of the Xbox ecosystem, even over the alternatives which would clearly offer superior gaming experience (visuals, control options, online functionality etc). That's before discussing the numerous ways in which the actual Xbox One has problems with its ecosystem that have only begun to start being patched out. It'd make more sense to tell people to play it on Xbox 360 if that was your reason. Given that the article was written in August, it's even worse because you literally just gave Microsoft the benefit of the doubt they'd be awesome at everything regarding their ecosystem, even after weeks and weeks and months of seriously concerning reports about the development of XBO and all the 180s. You just up and said "fuck it, trust me the ecosystem will be awesome!" Again, what service does this provide to readers?

(2) That somehow playing on a "comfy couch" is exclusive to Xbox, or consoles. It's easier than setting up a VCR to play your PC games on your TV and from your couch.

(3) That it's peppered with effusive language that does no one any service in explaining the reason for this hype, but stands more to perpetuate the cycle of hype than to justify it. At least a third of your article is dedicated to just that sort of language.

I mean what you said could be said of anything people dislike. "Sure, the third Transformers movie is hated by some. By others like it. It is what it is!"

That's not a very constructive discussion on why people have problems with it, right?

Damn
oh-snap-gif-1.gif
 
I never visited IGN again after the last time I went I was greeted with a full page ad that said IGN brought to you by Xbox One that made me click through it to visit the site and then I was bombard with all green with Xbox all over the background. That told me all I needed to know.
 

Krakn3Dfx

Member
This quote from IGN's Titanfall preview cracks me up every time:



You WILL buy an XBO for Titanfall, even if you have a PC capable rig for it, because REASONS! Xbox ecosystem! YOU CAN NEVER GO BACK!

Of course people will interpret calling out absurd self-perpetuating media driven overhype as a critique of Titanfall's quality, but it's not. I said this same shit over the ridiculous way IGN jerked off all over GTA5 during its Grand Theft Auto week.

There is no such thing as perspective apparently with these guys.

Holy shit that article. The fabricated hype is real.
 

Dire

Member
Community question -- this thread is being tagged back to SCEA management, specifically looking at the answer to this.

How would you all feel about SCEA dropping exclusive trailers, exclusive screenshot(s), etc on GAF first in the appropriate thread instead of the usual gaming journalistic sites? Assuming the moderators said that was ok. (would it be ok mods?) I know SCEA really don't want to look like marketing hacks ... but I've been pushing them to at least try passing on exclusives here directly rather than going the circular route through gaming sites.

You know the saying GAF - Internet - GAF. With that said, it's a fine line. So if we dropped something, no PR release no "OMG THIS IS AMAZING BLAHBLAH" .... maybe just "here GAF, new Trailer for Infamous <link>".

This material would in turn be instantly grabbed by said media outlets. In essence GAF would just end as another site for Sony to drop their "select" marketing media on. To say nothing of the inevitability of ending up with something like the top 5 or 10 threads being "**** OFFICIAL Sony Trailers/Stills ****", "**** OFFICIAL EA Trailers/Stills ****", etc.

Sounds like a great idea on paper but in the end I think keeping company and fan at arms length is better for all involved.
 

Hip Hop

Member
This material would in turn be instantly grabbed by said media outlets. In essence GAF would just end as another site for Sony to drop their "select" marketing media on. To say nothing of the inevitability of ending up with something like the top 5 or 10 threads being "**** OFFICIAL Sony Trailers/Stills ****", "**** OFFICIAL EA Trailers/Stills ****", etc.

Sounds like a great idea on paper but in the end I think keeping company and fan at arms length is better for all involved.

Exactly how I feel.

I don't usually like using this term, but it doesn't look as different to me as a paid "shill".
 

Ryan_IGN

Member
*sigh*

OK, let me try to break it down differently because I see where this is going.

Ryan, it is perfectly fine to write about how much you love Titanfall. By most accounts, Titanfall is a great game to the majority of people who play it.

People take issue with the following way you "colored" your assessment:

(1) That you must play it on Xbox One because of the Xbox ecosystem, even over the alternatives which would clearly offer superior gaming experience (visuals, control options, online functionality etc). That's before discussing the numerous ways in which the actual Xbox One has problems with its ecosystem that have only begun to start being patched out. It'd make more sense to tell people to play it on Xbox 360 if that was your reason. Given that the article was written in August, it's even worse because you literally just gave Microsoft the benefit of the doubt they'd be awesome at everything regarding their ecosystem, even after weeks and weeks and months of seriously concerning reports about the development of XBO and all the 180s. You just up and said "fuck it, trust me the ecosystem will be awesome!" Again, what service does this provide to readers?

(2) That somehow playing on a "comfy couch" is exclusive to Xbox, or consoles. It's easier than setting up a VCR to play your PC games on your TV and from your couch.

(3) That it's peppered with effusive language that does no one any service in explaining the reason for this hype, but stands more to perpetuate the cycle of hype than to justify it. At least a third of your article is dedicated to just that sort of language.

I mean what you said could be said of anything people dislike. "Sure, the third Transformers movie is hated by some. By others like it. It is what it is!"

That's not a very constructive discussion on why people have problems with it, right?

Edit: I'm going to bed, and I don't want you to feel like I just want to attack you. Your quote is illustrative of a problem that is prevalent in many media previews for games. And you're right, many people eat it up and give it clicks. That's part of the problem. But to me it's important to discuss these things, even if nothing will change.

I don't really expect to win over a lot of people in this thread, but I'm happy to give a constructive reply and give it a shot.

(1) You're right, in an article written in August I absolutely gave Microsoft the benefit of the doubt as it pertains to the Xbox One ecosystem. No one had any idea the extent of the problems that awaited the console when it finally released. When that piece was written, the Xbox 360 had drafted the blueprint for how online on a console could be done, and Xbox Live was a brilliant ecosystem. It was reasonable to think Xbox One would only make the online multiplayer experience (i.e. the games themselves, not the DRM) BETTER. I try to be an optimistic guy, so I'm always going to give the benefit of the doubt. I just prefer to live my life that way. It's pretty easy to put on the 20/20 hindsight glasses and criticize me for that, but so be it.

(2) PC gaming is still largely thought of as a desk-based, monitor-viewed experience, even if Steam's Big Picture mode is slowly starting to change that. And remember who IGN's audience is: most of them are not the hardcore NeoGAF user who knows every little trick to getting their PC gaming going on an HDTV. I think a lot of criticism towards IGN by NeoGAF in general stems from that. A lot of times we write things that you guys already know and you rip us for it. And that's fine. You guys are the power users. You're the hardest of the hardcore. Most people reading ANY of the major media sites don't fall into that category.

(3) Here I feel you're just criticizing my writing style, and again, that's fine. I do my best to write even-handed previews, but if I got carried away on this one (and universal media enthusiasm for Titanfall suggests I'm not alone if I am in fact guilty of that), then it's my mistake and I'll try to do a better job of reeling it back in going forward. In fact, I've written dozens of previews since then and not one of them has been called out here, so perhaps Titanfall was an aberration. I wonder if you think my last Thief preview is even-handed or not? I try to be even-handed, but because these are not final, reviewable games, I will ALWAYS give the benefit of the doubt in a preview even if my gut tells me they're not going to improve. That's just my philosophy.

Look, I get it. I write for IGN. That puts a big target on my (and any IGN editor's) back from the hardcore gamers like yourselves. That I wrote for OXM before that just doubles my alleged fanboyism even though Microsoft had nothing to do with the magazine (how it actually worked/works is that Future, the publisher, pays Microsoft for the rights to use the "Official Xbox" name and the Xbox nexus logo. That's the extent of the relationship; there is no editorial relationship). Do I prefer doing my gaming on the Xbox platform? Sure I do, but that's not unlike many fellow NeoGAF users and millions of gamers out there. I play games on all platforms and I'll get my own PS4, in time (for the Wii U, it's going to take a price drop and a mainline, Galaxy-level Mario to get me to bite). But I've been in this business for 11 years and I hope to be in it for many more. I am always trying to improve myself, because if I don't, there will always be someone else eager to take my job.

I'll conclude by saying that I've done stuff that NeoGAF actually had overwhelmingly positive things to say about recently, like this and this. But if you'd like to write me off for one over-enthusiastic preview from last year, I get that this post probably isn't going to change your mind. But I thank you for at least reading my thoughts here.
 

Haunted

Member
For allegedly hating me so much, you guys seem to spend an awful lot of time thinking and talking about me.
If you need some positive reassurance you can always turn to the usual Twitter or IGN forums circlejerk.

GAF is not kind to those it perceives as doing gamers and gaming a disservice.


edit: And just as I type this, you chose to engage and replied with a thoughtful post, kudos for that! A much more challenging, but productive course of action than many other journalists faced with criticism resort to (hi Arthur).


(2) And remember who IGN's audience is: most of them are not the hardcore NeoGAF user who knows every little trick to getting their PC gaming going on an HDTV. I think a lot of criticism towards IGN by NeoGAF in general stems from that. A lot of times we write things that you guys already know and you rip us for it. And that's fine. You guys are the power users. You're the hardest of the hardcore. Most people reading ANY of the major media sites don't fall into that category.
I didn't realise IGN considered itself to be that kind of site, but it does make sense. I agree with your assessment: GAFers and other power users have little to no use for IGN and their previews aimed at a different (less knowledgeable and more susceptible) audience.
 

Papercuts

fired zero bullets in the orphanage.
Absolute fucking nonsense.

Gotta downplay people genuinely love the game, I guess. Part of the apparently fake hype and all.

Previews in general always come off as gross to me, though. Especially when they gleam positive only to slam it in a review. And far too many writers seem to just pick the most absurd combination of words to overbloat their actual point.
 

Melchiah

Member
I've stopped reading the material of those so called journalists, who have proven to be partial to one platform during the past year. Advertiser would be a better word for them. I also don't read reviews before playing games anymore, as they often include spoilers. Fool me once...

I pay more attention to what the general consensus is around here. The GOTY thread's results made me buy Tomb Raider for the PS4, and I wasn't disappointed.
 

daniels

Member
Honestly it is better to just see videogame journalism as more of a enthusiast press that tries to get everyone excited for new stuff with hype/pr/ and a lil bit console war/shills.
Its more fun to see it that way than to be always angry with the lack of "journalism/ objectivity" whatever that even means :)
 
As much as it's a join the club, that's what made you lose faith? I mean it probably is the straw that broke the camel's back but there's far more worrying things going on than just marketing buzzwords.
 
Exaggerated soundbites always holler over many things.

Thing about games media is I've come to discover the opinions are really not for me or applicable to me. Likewise, the topics they cover.
 
We have people like Ryan McCaffrey, Arthur Gies, and Ben Kuchera to thank for that.

When he was at Ars, Ben Kuchera was one of my favorite gaming journalists. Then he went to PA Report and apparently decidedc he was secretly a woman and everyone who played video games was a sexist/racist pig and we should all be ashamed of ourselves for perpetuating stereotypes in the 21st century. The man turned everything into a soapbox worthy fight in the crusade against oppression. I couldn't read an article about anything without wading through 2-3 paragraphs of Ben talking about how bullshit gender politics were. "Oh, an article on Doctor Who" I would say to myself--queue 2 pages of how Doctor Who sucks for keeping the Doctor a man rather than for some odd reason changing him into a woman (it's canonically possible, but come on, it's still a little strange).

As much as it's a join the club, that's what made you lose faith? I mean it probably is the straw that broke the camel's back but there's far more worrying things going on than just marketing buzzwords.

You mean other than the barrage of marketing, the constant scandals involving score alterations, the witchhunts, the snobby opinion pieces, and the tabloid-esque standards? I couldn't imagine...
 
here is the thing.

1) games media right now is, as one poster said, an extension of pr. all they ever do is feature/promote a game that is coming out. give out info (which is helpful), but rarely an editorial. almost all e3 interviews sound and looked the same. no critical questions, just questions that are there to perpetuate info about the game, to make the game more known. almost always a basic rundown of the game, its features, its content. again, pretty much advertising.

2) even if they do editorial, it is far and few between. listening to a podcast, there are more immature jokes and senseless gibberish than what i would consider a thorough, thought-out critique. what do i care what you did on the weekend or what you had for lunch?

3) they are regurgitating neogaf posts. anything from news, rumours, opinions. pretty much everything i have heard/read from their editorials, i have heard/read in neogaf and more.

4) hyperbolic language. dickensian, etc. all the nonsense descriptors that they use do nothing to inform me of anything. all the metaphors and exaggeration are just downright insulting and annoying. "this game is awesome!" well tell me exactly why. most of the games media are older than i am, but i feel like they lack a lot of knowledge in being detailed, specific, and straightforward. "animations are terrible", "controls are clunky" all these vague descriptors do nothing yet they keep using it for millions of times.
 

Eknots

Member
I've always been sort of an optimist when it comes to game previews compared to some of the negative Nancys out there. Not because I truly believe the games media, but more because I feel there needs to be a balance in any forum, whether it be GAF, or whatever. So, when I see what seems like mob mentality forming, I try to offer a different perspective on the matter.

This is becoming increasingly difficult.

Not because of GAF, but because what I'm reading/seeing/listening to previews from the games media is not coming into fruition. Sometimes the games media gets it right, and I appreciate that, but when you have quotes like this:




(That was taken from an IGN preview of Titanfall from last August.)

I have to call bullshit, now that I've played it for some time.

Maybe its the games media's job to sell a product for a company, to get readers excited for a product. Maybe I've fallen into that trap in the past. I'm finding myself siding with the negative Nancys. I look to actual gamers(I mean people who don't play games for a living) for opinions now.

Am I wrong for becoming a cynical bastard now?
No you're not wrong, welcome to the correct side of cynical assholes.
also ftfy
 

Bedlam

Member
For allegedly hating me so much, you guys seem to spend an awful lot of time thinking and talking about me.
People talk about the things they love, people talk about the things they hate. There is no contradiction here.

Hate isn't the right word though. I don't know you personally and I certainly don't hate you. It's just that that I dislike gaming press writers like you a great deal. Sorry for being blunt but you guys are PR shills. Simple as that. I'm not even talking about the platform fanboy thing here, everyone has their own preferences (however it does get ridiculous when it colors a writer's judgement), It's just that your whole publication is basically one big advertising tool for big publishers. The intention behind your writing is selling products which is why you are a prime example of what is wrong with the gaming press.
 
I don't give two fucks about IGN. I don't even know this Ryan guy but holy shit.

..most of them are not the hardcore NeoGAF user who knows every little trick to getting their PC gaming going on an HDTV.

Lolz all those PC tweeks to get it on the TV. With XBone all you gotta do is plug and play!
 
I've been a victim of the artificial hype gaming media's been spewing for the last 2-3 years.

Not letting it happen anymore. Grains of salt the size of boulders when I read these things.

Letting the cynical flow through me.
 

Balb

Member
People talk about the things they love, people talk about the things they hate. There is no contradiction here.

Hate isn't the right word though. Personally I just dislike gaming press writers like you a great deal. You are PR shills. Simple as that. I not even talking about the platform fanboy thing here, everyone has their own preferences (however it does get ridiculous when it colors a writer's judgement), It's just that your whole publication is basically one big advertising tool for big publishers. The intention behind your writing is selling products which is why you are a prime example of what is wrong with the gaming press.

Did you read this post before submitting it? It's insanely harsh in a direct way.
 

Bedlam

Member
Did you read this post before submitting it? It's insanely harsh in a direct way.
I edited it and added the "I don't know you personally and I certainly don't hate you" line to make it clear that this is not about hating a person. It's about disliking the deceiving nature of their professional work.

But yup, that's how I feel about large parts of the gaming press and IGN is among the worst offenders.
 
To me personally it seems as though all these "reviewers" are in The publishers back pockets.

Of course not. But I find very worrying to see some journalists refusing to acknowledge at least the relationship of dependence that exists between them and the industry.

Again... what?

Game is revealed - people decide if it interests them.
As more information is drip feed interest either grows or wanes.
Every now and then a game is released that generates a tremendous amount of share excitement, and that shared excitement causes buzz, which in turn generates more excitement.

That's all that's happened here. Yes we can probably predict the review scores because the game is being very well received by many of the people who play it.

Unless the final product is greatly lacking in content, or Respawn throw curveballs that no-one saw coming, it's a safe bet this game is going to score well. And that has nothing to do with anything but the fact they've probably made a good game.

Funny how you give the impression that PR/marketing has nothing to do with each step of this process.
 
Of course not. But I find very worrying to see some journalists refusing to acknowledge at least the relationship of dependence that exists between them and the industry.

I maybe didn't go into enough detail there, my apologies.

What I mean though is that I feel like reviewers are trying to sell me a game. I don't want them to sell the game with PR babble. I want them to give me an honest interpretation of how the game is, regardless of platform/publisher.

I don't feel like they do this at all.

I feel that, like you said, they rely too much on the publishers and due to this things will never change.
 
Yeah, I admit that I rarely even listen to games reviews now, especially with quite a few of the AAA or titles that interest me. I typically just try the game out for myself to formulate an opinion and normally don't listen to the unprecedented hype and praise. I've been satisfied with the vast majority of my choices also. To me, gaming(I am talking as a whole, not just review sites) is essentially one big popularity contest where the media generally try to shove the "popular" games they like down gamer's throats.
 

Curufinwe

Member
Will hype sites like IGN and Polygon be honest about the technical issues in Titanfall on the Xbone like the frame rate dropping into the 30s when you are actually in a Titan?

I really doubt it. It just wouldn't fit the narrative.
 
Will hype sites like IGN and Polygon be honest about the technical issues in Titanfall on the Xbone like the frame rate dropping into the 30s when you are actually in a Titan?

I really doubt it. It just wouldn't fit the narrative.

To be fair to IGN, eyes are busy falling out.
 
(2) PC gaming is still largely thought of as a desk-based, monitor-viewed experience, even if Steam's Big Picture mode is slowly starting to change that. And remember who IGN's audience is: most of them are not the hardcore NeoGAF user who knows every little trick to getting their PC gaming going on an HDTV. I think a lot of criticism towards IGN by NeoGAF in general stems from that. A lot of times we write things that you guys already know and you rip us for it. And that's fine. You guys are the power users. You're the hardest of the hardcore. Most people reading ANY of the major media sites don't fall into that category.


Honestly I think this right here is the biggest problem a lot of folks here and elsewhere have with effusive previews/reviews rather than thought-out, even handed examination of games, because a lot of us realize that while WE can differentiate the real from the fluff, the average consumer may not be able to.

As 'hardest of the hardcore' gamers, we take issue with anything that we feel does a disservice to fellow gamers, especially the ones that are more casual and that might be ignorant of anything that isn't fed to them by the usual big-name channels like IGN. I don't mean this completely literally btw. I don't look down on 'casuals' in some narcissistic fashion like they have to be spoon-fed everything. It's just that they don't typically research games they might be interested in, and instead merely glance at big-name sites for info. So if that info isn't even-handed, they aren't getting the real picture IMHO.

Take the whole DRM debacle with the XB1 for instance. Most of my more casual gamer friends had no idea it was even a thing, because the mainstream media was downplaying it. [Seemingly] every major mainstream gaming site was acting like it was 'no big deal' until AFTER Microsoft's 180. And in my eyes to this day the ONLY reason that 180 occured was because their preorder numbers didn't meet expectations. The whole 'we're changing course because we've heard the gamers and we care about you' shtick was balogne, especially when just weeks before that we were told to #dealwithit.

Those of us that are more core gamers, both here on GAF and elsewhere, take huge issue with things like this, or with previews that do nothing to break down the game's strengths and weaknesses, and instead just gush over it. IGN and sites like it are meant to be sources of information for the casual gamers you are saying you target.

If that's the case, then why not be more forthright, more critical, and more even-handed with ALL reviews, previews, system analyses, etc? Why take a gloss-it-over approach on some games, then point to other games you were more critical? That just comes off as playing favorites rather than applying the same philosphy and approach to all of your games coverage.

As a mainstream gaming site the goal should be to give all the info you can, warts and all, so that the average non-GAF, non 'hardest of the hardcore' gamer can make a more informed decision about where to spend their hard-earned money. There is always the disclaimer like: "While we had an issue with X in the build we previewed, rest assured the developers are still working on the game and this isn't a final consumer build. Things can change."

Effusive prose that just says something to the effect of "this game is awesome, you're going to buy it" without saying WHY, what are it's strengths and weaknesses, what recent gaming experiences are most akin to it, does nothing to help those casual consumers that you say are your target to have an idea what to expect.


No one had any idea the extent of the problems that awaited the console when it finally released. When that piece was written, the Xbox 360 had drafted the blueprint for how online on a console could be done, and Xbox Live was a brilliant ecosystem. It was reasonable to think Xbox One would only make the online multiplayer experience (i.e. the games themselves, not the DRM) BETTER. I try to be an optimistic guy, so I'm always going to give the benefit of the doubt. I just prefer to live my life that way. It's pretty easy to put on the 20/20 hindsight glasses and criticize me for that, but so be it.

Also things like this. It's one thing to be an optimist, but the writing was very clearly on the wall for the XB1 to have problems out of the gate. I'm not even in the industry personally, unless you count gobbling up hundreds of games over the course of the past 6 years, and my prior 21 years as a more casual gamer since I was a kid. But even I could tell that a company trying to completely overhaul their OS, let alone putting THREE OS's running simultaneously on the new system, coupled with drastic changes at the last second due to their 180s, meant that there were going to be problems out of the gate.

It's not pessimism, it's realism. And instead of giving a realistic view of the upcoming launch, mainstream sites were basically acting like it was going to be all lollipops and roses on Nov 22nd. Any console launch has hiccups, but a console launch with such massive changes late in the game, coupled with the risk they were taking with the OS setup? That was a recipe that led to pretty predictable results with regards to users' discontent over the way the system functions compared to its predecessor.

I'm not saying it was broken from the get-go because it wasn't. A lot of things they advertised worked, but it certainly wasn't just taking the 360's formula and improving on it. Sure most of the 'new' features worked, but features that have been integral to the Xbox ecosystem you were holding up so high were either missing entirely or only sort-of functional. They tried to reinvent the wheel, and as the old saying goes, if it ain't broke don't fix it. Even a simple disclaimer that "Big changes are afoot so it may be off to a bumpy start. Things will settle down in time, but buyer beware for now." would've been better than operating under the false assumption that everything would be hunky dorey. Maybe it isn't realism after all and I'm just too much a pessimist though...


Thanks for responding here and engaging with us, btw.
 
Will hype sites like IGN and Polygon be honest about the technical issues in Titanfall on the Xbone like the frame rate dropping into the 30s when you are actually in a Titan?

Surely lower framerate will only be helpful, as it will be easier for eyeballs to process the information.
 

zzz79

Banned
I've always been sort of an optimist when it comes to game previews compared to some of the negative Nancys out there. Not because I truly believe the games media, but more because I feel there needs to be a balance in any forum, whether it be GAF, or whatever. So, when I see what seems like mob mentality forming, I try to offer a different perspective on the matter.

This is becoming increasingly difficult.

Not because of GAF, but because what I'm reading/seeing/listening to previews from the games media is not coming into fruition. Sometimes the games media gets it right, and I appreciate that, but when you have quotes like this:

(That was taken from an IGN preview of Titanfall from last August.)

I have to call bullshit, now that I've played it for some time.

Maybe its the games media's job to over exaggerate, to get readers excited for a product. Maybe I've fallen into that trap in the past. I'm finding myself siding with the negative Nancys. I look to actual gamers(I mean people who don't play games for a living) for opinions now.

Am I wrong for becoming a cynical bastard now?


But have you seen Titanfall ?

oh, wait! ...
 
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