Cabbagehead
Member
Good thing it's just a fanbase...
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Star Citizen loan clarification: it's an advance on their UK game dev tax rebate
- Thread starter Raticus79
- Start date
Good thing it's just a fanbase...
Krisprolls
Banned
The explanation seems really fishy. For what it's worth, here's Derek Smart answer on the subject :
http://dereksmart.com/2017/06/star-citizen-final-countdown/
"This response has so many Red flags, I dont even know where to begin. So, right off the top of my head
Look at the 2016 filing, and it is 100% clear that the tax credits arent even going to fund 2 months of operations! I wrote an analysis of their 2016 filings which shows the tax credit amounts. Quote: They are now taking the tax credits awarded by the government for software companies in the region. For 2016, they took £3.3m ($4.1m) allowance, and with the £3.1m ($3.9m) taken in 2015, brings the total tax credit to £6.4m ($8.1m) thus far. Due to how this is calculated (after expenses), this tax credit adds approximately £6.4m ($8.1m) to the projects P&L calculations.
That they took a loan against such a SMALL tax credit, should be alarming that they would even need to. If after getting $150m + investor money + loans, you also need to pledge ALL assets for a high-risk loan against a measly tax credit, thats a problem. Not to mention a tax credit that is due in just a few months when they file taxes. But they apparently need the money right now. Why is that?
If this was just about the tax credits, why then is it not the ONLY collateral (p4 Section 4.2.9) listed? If true (given their record, this is highly unlikely), obviously the bank felt it was a RISKY loan because they could fold BEFORE being eligible for the tax credit. So they secured ALL their assets.
A UK tax credit, like here in the US, is a guaranteed asset, as long as your revenue is in compliance. You can take out a loan against just the tax credit, without putting your entire company and assets on the line just for that. In this instance, this was not the case. The loan collateral isnt just for the tax credit, but for highly valuable assets. Of course, as weve seen in the case of 38 Studios collapse, things can go sideways pretty quickly if you dont plan correctly.
Also, Ortwin is the same guy who has been involved in various venture collapses, and complete loss of investor money; mostly in Germany. I wrote about this in my Money Laundromat blog a few months ago."
The conspiracy originator is a man with a questionable state of mind and his internet army.
Dude just stop, don't quote Derek Smart and present it as an explanation.
Holy Fuck.
We are still quoting Derek Smart.
Jesus.
Lords have mercy, this thread probably deserves a lock too.
Cat in the Hat
Member
Was that gameplay you posted supposed to be a joke? It's just a long video of them experiencing game crashing bugs...
Maybe if you had anything more then vague platitudes. This would be an actual conversation.
But it doesn't look like you want one.
Cabbagehead
Member
Where did i imply that the internet was the problem? I said the internet community can be knee jerky.
Also whats you're problem with CIG? because you clearly have one.
Dictator93
Member
+Points toward a crazy man wearing his clothing backwards+
"He speaks the the truth!"
"He speaks the the truth!"
Are you going to triple down on this with Derek Smart's website of all things?!?
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
There's literally a person who's borderline made it their goal in life to constantly spread false rumors and lies about this game. Some of which are being posted in this very thread. Ones that just as fast as they're formed, are debunked while still believed by a contingent of the internet because it's the internet.
EDIT:Even on this page......
Cabbagehead
Member
YOU CAN'T BE SERIOUS....
you can't be...are you derek smart?
You do know that Derek smart can't get a loan from banks? he doesn't have or run a company. He's blacklisted from the industry for a reason.
TheVoidDragon
Member
You've claimed the thing about cars and mansions is true because despite having no evidence that it's true anymore (and the little 'evidence' there was wasn't really actual evidence in the first place) there isn't anything to suggest it isn't true...how can you not see the problem with going "I can't prove it's true but you can't prove it's false, so it's not false"?
Well, clearly I'm part of the conspiracy.
Edit: Rephrasing for accuracy and less inflamatory-ness.
Abstrusity
Member
Yeah but mine is a tongue in cheek joke at how everyone gets so up in arms about this sort of thing. The indications aren't really negative or positive; Star Citizen is making steady progress toward completion, but it's been delayed. There's arguments for optimism and skepticism.
There is no argument for fighting over it so severely.
Krisprolls
Banned
Not at all, I just asked for a link to have both sides of the story. Some of you people are really frightening.
Someone gave a link, so I got both sides of the story, it's okay.
Yeah, right. You dont care about CIG or what they do. You are just here to argue in good faith.
Sure.
What fuck ups? Complex projects have problems, thats the end of story.
They could probably avoid few, but for most they would have to be clairvoyance to see them earlier.
This is frankly some disgusting projection.
Krisprolls
Banned
Well, we're still quoting Chris Roberts after 8 years, $150 million spent and basically nothing released so I guess we can quote everybody...
You realised that a thread got locked because it used Derek Smart as a reference?
And you keep making assertions with no proof to back them.
Also who is quoting Chris Roberts in this thread?
So do you do this about real politics as well? Do you believe Alex Jones is a credible source?
Your whataboutism falls flat
Chris has successes,
Derek has been blacklisted from the industry he is trying to conspiracy theory about.
Man, you're way too into this.
If think its time for you to stop posting and start thinking or at least check your info before writing anything.
Dictator93
Member
hah
The same can be said about you?
If you didnt really care. Why are you still here after your first shitpost drive-by?
Frightening? What is frightening about us trying to debunk your wildly inaccurate claims.
Also there is no "Two sides of the story" it's a man who's hellbent on destroying Chris Roberts by making shit up and then there is a company trying to make a game and doing usual business stuff.
How was that a "shitpost drive-by" if I'm still here? Get it straight :/
I don't care about this company. I care about the way its community reacts to stuff like this, as I've stated before in this thread; and I'll care about the game once it's actually a reality.
Cabbagehead
Member
Yeah there is argument for defending it. The people in the community paid for the thing, other's have harassed community members, doxxing developers, an their families and generally tried to start shit, just to start shit. This is not some small thing anymore it's a repeated effort.
I mean yeah maybe in retrospective its not big deal. Still it's a big deal to someone.
Krisprolls
Banned
No, selling $16000 virtual ship packs for a crowdfunded game which doesn't exist after 8 years and $150 million is not "doing usual business stuff".
That's why people are here actually.
And yes, there are always two sides of the story, unless proven otherwise. I made ZERO claim, I asked for a link. Read my posts please.
You presence and constant attacks on them say otherwise.
2017 and still quoting conspiracy theorist Derek Smart lmao is this real life
So not only you don't know the meaning of some terms, you also lack basic understanding of math. Nice.
So not only you don't know the meaning of some terms, you also lack basic understanding of math. Nice.
Which side is offering proof of their claims? Certainly not the one quoting Derek Smart.
I mean, it is also true that Alex Jones is very much a thing these days. But I don't consider anybody that sincerely quotes him to be a reasonable human being.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
You've literally been quoting BS conspiracy theories for pages now, we asked to substantiate, you basically said:
and then you just flat out quoted Derek Smart, while also perpetuating revisionist history BS like "nothing's been released." What reactions do you genuinely expect from a bunch of people who've through 30 second google searches can debunk your claims.
Yeah, sure.
The fact is with the amount of money invesyed and so many years of development, is is worrying to not have a full game officially released, fully playable. This budget could basically fund dozen of modest indie games.
I understand some people believe in this game, but I feel maybe it did not deserve that much money. I also feel they promised too many things, which is bound to cause disappointment.
The game is also the center of attention because its success or failure will most likely have a big impact on crwofunding. I am not sure that if it failed, there would be massive games of this size funded before a long time.
I understand some people believe in this game, but I feel maybe it did not deserve that much money. I also feel they promised too many things, which is bound to cause disappointment.
The game is also the center of attention because its success or failure will most likely have a big impact on crwofunding. I am not sure that if it failed, there would be massive games of this size funded before a long time.
Thanks for confirming and agreeing.
Cabbagehead
Member
You are not the communities savory. They are bunch of intelligent people, they aren't being hurt by CIG or misled. An if CIG was indeed doing that, then they are and would be in for a world of hurt. Like you have never seen. I'm sure of that.
So the game is not a reality. Is what you are really saying? You're a contradiction wrapped in a contradiction.
What about selling $8k pledges for Shenmue 3 kickstarter for a game that doesnt exists after 15 years?
Have you been alive these past two years, m8? This is exactly what real life looks like now.
The Atticus
Member
I'll buy this game for £7.84 in the 2020 Steam Summer Sale
Can I borrow your ship then, Hitch?
Can I borrow your ship then, Hitch?
Cabbagehead
Member
There is no logic. It's called double standards.
Because i'm sure that they wouldn't give a damn if it was another game.
Alex Jones is rising in the world, so Gaming's Alex Jones gets to keep his deperessing relevance.
Please explain how Derek Smart is a credible source on multinational corporate finances.
HighResTomato
Member
So...
There is a company that gives them an advance (loan) on their Government Tax credit. In return they promise to pay the advance should the UK Government fail to pay it (which is their legal obligation).
Whats wrong with this?
There is a company that gives them an advance (loan) on their Government Tax credit. In return they promise to pay the advance should the UK Government fail to pay it (which is their legal obligation).
Whats wrong with this?
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