care to explain? :O
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Game of Thrones - Season 2 - George RR Martin's Song of Ice and Fire - Sundays on HBO
- Thread starter Cornballer
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care to explain? :O
Disagree completely with your assessment of Alfie Allen. I feel he gets a bit underrated because people know him as the brother of Lily Allen and he is seen as an acting rookie. I think he has been just as good as any other actor on the show, at least for this season. He has really gotten inside his character and knows just what to do. Personally it has been my favorite performance of season 2 but I'm going to wait till the end to decide who was best. It's Asha/Yara who is the problem.
I disagreed with the Margaery decisions and the choice to cast what was probably an expensive actress but damn Natalie Dormer really is magnetic in this role like that Otaku guy said.
Let's just say I disagree with your notion of Margaery.
Right, but
until her meltdown in the prison cell there is the question that she might just be another Sansa with actual brains behind her (namely the Queen of Thorns). It might damage Cersei's arc if you have been shown that she is a power-crazy whore for two/three seasons, but of course it's far too early to tell.
At first I thought she was mocking Renly with the Loras quips but I guess she just REALLY wants to be Queen.
As for book Margery, (series)
As for book Margery, (series)
I always thought she was a schemer due to her close relationship with the Queen of Thornes, and the blasé way she acted in that scene with Sansa. Maybe I'm as paranoid as Cersei as I couldn't really point to a specific line, but I just got the feeling that she was really playing the game of thrones when I was reading Feast. And then of course she has that fucking amazing passage culminating in "...you vile, scheming, evil bitch!" One of the most satisfying lines in the whole series.
Cornballer
Member
Please remember to spoiler tag and label your spoilers from the books. Also, keep in mind that the A Song of Ice and Fire -- **Unmarked Spoilers For All Books including ADWD** thread is available if you just want to talk about the later books without tags. Thanks for your help.
I'll never understand how you, a former mod who preached how he tried to help out with spoilers, can never get it right with timeline implications.
Also, "total whore", "huge whore"... yeesh.
You're talking about a guy that would go to the non-spoiler thread and tease the non-readers with how wrong their predictions/ideas are. :lol
LOL, he might be talking about her suggesting a threesome with her own brother. Then again, that's not really rare in this world.
Yeah but she did that for practical reasons, not solely for pleasure. I guess I just have a different definition of whore.
I'm also curious to see Ami's response as to why Margaery is a whore in the books.
It really doesn't have much to do with him being Lily Allen's brother. Not sure why that would cause me to judge him.
No, he just seems to be straining for his voice sometimes, his face betrays some of the intended emotions of the scenes he's in... when he is yelling back at his father, I didn't get the sense of hurt that should be there, rather someone carefully imitating what he thought hurt would be like. Almost like if an alien visited earth and tried to mimick human emotions or something.
Not to say he is always out of his league. I quite like him at times, but at other times... it just doesn't click with me, it's clear he is an acting rookie sometimes.
Natalie Dormer's titties are as magnetic as I'll ever need *swoon*
I understand. Let's just say Margaery is a shrewd player, is described as such in the books, and
has been playing Cersei readily in more than one occasion, which I'm sure you're aware of. She's not merely some backwater playing above her station.
Maybe, we'll see. I think it's good to expand her character, because she had weak weak characterization in early books
Series
It's never outright "shown" in the books, but it's heavily implied. She's not just having nice chit chats with her friends when they come together for their little gatherings. For all we know they could be having orgies there. Not that it makes her a whore, but she's implied to be very forward in private with these things.
Also, I don't think this will cause any problems with Cersei's AFFC storylines. The most important thing of that is that Cersei "knows" what Margaery is doing but no one believes her, since Margaery is the cute good girl whenever in public. THAT is what is driving her nuts. She sees the scheming, but she's can't do much about it before she can prove it without any doubts.
Also, I don't think this will cause any problems with Cersei's AFFC storylines. The most important thing of that is that Cersei "knows" what Margaery is doing but no one believes her, since Margaery is the cute good girl whenever in public. THAT is what is driving her nuts. She sees the scheming, but she's can't do much about it before she can prove it without any doubts.
(series)
I'm not saying she's not a schemer later on, but that she might not be a schemer at this point in the story, in the books at least. Also I never bought into the whole rumor/accusation of her having huge orgies.
And another little tip for how shrewd Margaery is...
she didn't not fuck Osney Kettleback because she is a quaint little virgin. She didn't fuck him because she was sharp enough to realize he was playing for Cersei.
Jett SPOILER TAG failure ^^^
I understand. It is left explicitly unsaid for a reason, so it's no big deal if you disagree with my assessment. I just think her being a smart operator makes sense given the way we know her character works out. And we know what females who want power often do in this world, if they don't have true power themselves (Brienne).
I'm sure this was discussed as it was airing, but I wasn't surprised that they didn't use the term Rainbow Guard last night and only used the term Kings Guard for Renly. I think it would have felt too forced and maybe come off as offensive for the uninitiated. With Renly's homosexuality only being implied in the books (regardless of how obvious it was to some), there was at least a chance that the rainbow correlation wasn't related to his sexual proclivities.
Yeah, the way the show spells it out for you, there's no need for the Rainbow Guard designation. I actually think it would have been over-the-top in this iteration of the story, considering how open they are about Renly. Not that the books are particularly ambiguous, but after the rainbow guard bit there's no doubt. In the show, it's completely unnecessary and would even seem as if Renly was intentionally trying to get people to realize his sexual preference.
D
Deleted member 30609
Unconfirmed Member
[affc]
That said, I definitely really enjoyed all the added scenes at Renly's camp this episode.
Margery being a bit of mystery helped Cersei's story a lot. You weren't sure whether or not Cersei was just trying to convince herself that Margery was out to get her or if she was actually scheming behind Cersei's back. I mean, Margery almost certainly was scheming to some extent, given the Highgarden/Olenna connection, but it was never outright spelt out for you. I liked that.
That said, I definitely really enjoyed all the added scenes at Renly's camp this episode.
Series:
I'm not seeing that. Yes Cersei thinks she is a whore, but that's only because she is paranoid and wants it to be true. The Blue Bard's confession is forced, her maidenhead is implied to have broken due to horse riding rather than any sex, and Osney's attempts to seduce her or catch her with men are completely unsuccessful. I got the impression that she truly was innocent and that she is indeed a virgin. Pycelle was lying about the Moon Tea because he is trying to stay loyal and useful to Cersei. It definitely is not confirmed that she is a virgin and I think it could go either way, but I don't think it's as cut and dry as Renly being gay.
AFFC:
Not buying that one. She knows Osney is working for Cersei but for some reason trusts Pycelle of all people to make her Moon Tea? Right...
I love Cornballer's incredibly polite posts asking people to use the relevant threads, and then everyone just carries on with the series spoilers :lol
I think it was just for simplicities sake; if you say rainbow guard, you have to explain what the rainbow guard is somehow. Kingsguard should be easier for viewers to get the jist. The line was a little jarring though, the way it was delivered, but maybe thats just my book knowledge effecting my viewing experience.
and I was yelled at for spoiler tag fails.... whomp whomp.
I really really like the way they did Theon's story in the HBO series vs. the books. [General Series Spoiler]:
I really really like the way they did Theon's story in the HBO series vs. the books. [General Series Spoiler]:
still a long way to go before he can do what he does... then again, it may be shown to be more of a compassionate act than an act of malice and failure...if you catch my drift.
Spirit of Jazz
Banned
Strongest episode so far with an amazing last 10 minutes. Yoren's dialogue and fight was perfect and my God the Lommy scene was horrific. Other than that I think the Iron Island scenes are being handled better than they were in the books, and it's great to watch the Tyrion/Varys alliance develop. Hell, it's always been great to watch Varys do anything in this show.
The Lamonster
Member
I will echo that. Great character, great actor.
speaking of Tyrion though, why was Shagga absent from the Pycelle intimidation scene?
Spiffy_1st
Member
I really didn't like that episode aside from the Theon and Arya parts. I'm hoping the drop in quality is due to how hard it is to translate the first half of Clash than just everyone getting sloppy.
Shae should have been cut. =/
Shae should have been cut. =/
Supermanisdead
Member
Alfie Allen is THAT Alfie, aka Lily Allen's brother, aka the subject of the song Alfie? Lol. I'm stupid for not realizing this. Looks like she got all the looks in the family...
Joe Shlabotnik
Banned
Weird, I thought this was a magnificent distillation of a lot of complicated events and story lines from the book, without dropping anything too significant. ESPECIALLY Tyrion ferreting out the mole in the Small Council, which was basically a clinic on how to adapt a scene for television.
No kills for Arya? Boooo. Let her murder some Lannisters!
Besides that, great episode overall. Love Theon in this. A big improvement for me over the book. Tyrion of course boss as always. Luwin is just a cool guy.
But Shae....I hope they have something in store for her, because so far she is even worse than in the books.
And somehow I always forget that Sansa is a character in this story.
Besides that, great episode overall. Love Theon in this. A big improvement for me over the book. Tyrion of course boss as always. Luwin is just a cool guy.
But Shae....I hope they have something in store for her, because so far she is even worse than in the books.
And somehow I always forget that Sansa is a character in this story.
Joe Shlabotnik
Banned
Headey is so much better this season too. Did she read the books during hiatus or something?
SerArthurDayne
Member
He was there. Or was that not Shagga? He was largely ineffective, but basically did the- there are no goats here, and then the intimidating.
Forsaken82
Member
Someone that agrees with me! Amazing!
Lactose_Intolerant
Member
It was the burned man guy that has only one eye. I think they missed some good jokes with Shagga and his axes. Like the barber line.
Forsaken82
Member
They cut a lot out of that scene. Makes me wonder if they will do anything to him off screen besides the beard (SOS)
cause it would otherwise be quite hard to explain the downward spiral he takes since I am sure most of that is because they turn him into a eunich and hes locked away till Tyrion flees. Unless they just add that he was brutally tortured soon after...
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
She literally found out about the kill list 14 seconds previous lol
Forsaken82
Member
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
And if a frog had wings it wouldn't bump it's ass a-hoppin'.
Why do people keep doing this to themselves?
Forsaken82
Member
Probably out hunting... he does that a lot.
I wondered the same thing, but it may have been a case of Ghost not thinking Snow was in real danger to begin with. If it's like Bran's wolf, it does as it pleases at night apparently.
His direwolf was sleeping, it was the middle of the night.
PhoenixDark
Banned
He meets a female Direwolf and is too busy telling her his life story during sex to realize Jon is in trouble
It's due to the changes they made, but it's really undercutting some of the bite Arya has. Not that it's altogether bad, maybe it's good they paint Arya with slightly more vulnerability so that when she makes her transformation it has more punch.
I am really excited to see Harrenhal though. Can't wait to see the shot of that behemoth.
Who called Brienne a whore? She's so sheepish about sexuality that she literally wears a suit of armor to keep people at a distance. I can't imagine anyone who read the books would say that...
Here is a behind the scenes video explaining that scene with Arya and Yoren and talking about their relationship (possible spoilers, I am not sure):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zMzKLFBvOg&feature=channel&list=UL
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zMzKLFBvOg&feature=channel&list=UL
Summed up in one word, Characterization.
Arya bonding with Gendry and Hot Pie and Lommy.
Arya trying to get them to eat bugs and worms.
The older kids leaving them behind on their own and the group having to carry Lommy and care for a crying little girl.
Arya arguing with Gendry that they shouldn't leave everyone behind. It shows Arya's character that she remains strong and refuses to even consider leaving them.
Arya and Hot Pie debating about whether they should rescue Gendry who was captured by 20 guards. Surprisingly, Hot Pie agreed to help rescue him.
Arya and Hot Pie actually fighting and killing people in the battle.
Arya actually being smart enough to tell Yoren that they shouldn't stay there in that spot. Since the people that used to live there got scared and ran away.
The humor in Lommy always wanting to yield and Hot Pie always talking about food and Arya being annoyed with them. The humor in Hot Pie making animal noises to lure animals to them and failing at it.
Arya refusing to leave without burying Yoren.
In contrast, there isn't anything I'm missing from Tyrion's chapters or anyone else's. Only Arya's.
Any of this is more important I would say than the brothel scene from last week, Renly kissing Loras, Margarey attempting to have sex with Renly, and Sansa bitching at Shae.
Forsaken82
Member
I agree 100%. I like the show for what it is, but I still can't help but feel disappointed that I am missing out on the visual of a (as of yet) no bullshit preteen survivalist who knows how to take care of herself and is seemingly willing to make choices that any mature adult would struggle with.
Yeah that makes sense I guess.
Sarcasm?
:lololol
Well, I didn't mean "why wasn't he on screen?" but "why didn't he intervene?"
cj_iwakura
Member
Am I the only one who thinks Littlefinger is being made a chump in the show? I always felt like he was in control in the books, but in the show, everyone's running circles around him, it seems like.
At least in Season 2.
At least in Season 2.
The only thing missing from the Pycelle scene was him pissing himself everywhere, would have been hilarious. Although they are changing events from the books, they aren't drastically altering them or the overall plotline, just condensing them so they can fit inside a single season. This implies that it's definitely a good decision, in terms of a faithful adaption, that they split ASOS into two seasons. I do think that in the next episode
Davos and Melisandre won't infiltrate Storm's End but some other generic castle. Talking of locations, why on earth was Dragonstone in the title sequence? Renly should be at Bitterbridge, then rush back to Storm's End once he learns that Stannis has sieged it.
bengraven
Member
This one is Sophie Turner (Sansa) explaining her relationship with the queen through this season:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=UL7zMzKLFBvOg&feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=i89_0H2PDmU
That guy has uploaded some other interesting videos, including one describing the relationship between Tyrion and Shae and George talking about the history of the realm.
edit: I'd love to see more interviews with Bran and at least one with Conleth Hill who plays Varys. That guy gives no interviews.
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