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I'll just outright say it, Nioh is a fucking slog of a game

Exodust

Banned
So if you enjoyed it for 15 hours and didn't care about the plot...why not just play for 15 hours and be done with it

How is that a defense? Videogames in general are full of examples of plot being secondary, if that, to your enjoyment of a game. And he himself said he still enjoyed the game beyond that point till fatigue started to set in. It's YMMV as hell but finding a game bloated is a valid critique.
 

Chibot

Member
The loot system was by far my biggest issue with the game. Around half-way through I almost completely stopped picking up items, sold everything and enjoyed my time with it more afterwards.
 

EXMaster

Member
The real screwed up thing about this is that I generally agree with everything you said.

And yet I still enjoyed playing in spite of that.
 

Y2Kev

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009
How is that a defense? Videogames in general are full of examples of plot being secondary, if that, to your enjoyment of a game. And he himself said he still enjoyed the game beyond that point till fatigue started to set in. It's YMMV as hell but finding a game bloated is a valid critique.
It's not a defense of the game being bloated. It's asking him a question in the way that people who have a conversation often do.
 

KillLaCam

Banned
You don't have to play the side missions though. I was super under level the first time I played through the game and didn't have too many issues
 

Creamium

shut uuuuuuuuuuuuuuup
I will agree that the enemy variety is lacking once you get a few regions into the game. The game never resembled anything close to a slog for me though, because of a few important things.

First of all the 5 weapon categories are fun to explore and experiment with. You can respec to your heart's desire too, so you can switch playstyles very easily. When you use the book, you get all your skill points back too, so you can try out all the weapons easily. I told myself I was done with the game, but even now I'm itching to go back and focus on the kusarigama/ninjitsu side of things. If you stick to one weapon for the entire game it could get a bit dull, but there's a lot to play around with.

Second, the level design in most of the main missions is actually pretty damn consistent imo. Even in Souls games you get a dud now and then, but Nioh's (main) levels are small labyrinths full of shortcuts and secrets. It's a constant riff on my favorite type of DkS style level. Unfortunately though, the side missions take place in those areas 90% of the time. If you're disappointed in those... I get it. Luckily there are few that are basically new mini-levels, like the bath house and ship. They should've focused on quality instead of quantity here, instead of reusing the same areas over and over. Of course you can skip these, but we should still critique them. Side missions can and should be more than plain busywork.

Next, because of the loot system you're always looking for that one weapon that'll be a big jump from the one you're using now. With the reforging option it's fun to play the slots and make a good weapon even better. Then later in NG+ the + weapons come into play and you're soul matching constantly to up your + number if you found a weapon that has a good perk set. Later on the focus kind of shifts to the loot game and that even kept me playing after I finished the main game.

So even though the side content definitely could've been handled better and the enemy variety is lacking, there was just too much in Nioh that kept me going. The weapons, the playstyles, loot, main mission design... Just consider respeccing to give yourself a fresh start. It's fun and you can keep doing it.
 
I dropped the game early into region 5. Throughly enjoyed most of it, but at some point I just felt like I was going through the motions repeatedly. Combat is fantastic, just really needed more enemy variety or crazy locales.
 

Kyrios

Member
I really enjoyed the game playing with a friend, didn't really like it playing by myself like I did with Dark Souls games or Bloodborne.
 
I'll just disagree with the OP.

-The ennemies are the same but the encounter design are not. There aren't many new ennemies but with each new level , there will be new traps , new encounter designs that change the way you need to proceed.
-Bosses are bosses , you need to pay attention , it's not a difficulty spike. There are various videos showcasing this. Heck all the bosses have very long tell and animations tell , showcasing when they are vulnerable.
-L- armor build are folly ? what is this nonsense. i've completed the game TWICE with light armor with no issues
-The loot system is so generous you can keep abusing it to keep an early weapon to the end of the story if you want , you only have to re-forge if you don't want to deal with loot. The game is overtly generous with items , even with drops and the level design means that you can farm easily if you want a specific item to craft insane ones.
And again you don't need to do that.
-If you don't want to see the levels , don't play them. the reused stuff is again , optionnal

As for the plot, you haven't even understood it properly. It's not a great plot but it works , then again it's an action game not an rpg, them giving you levels to fight through is what the genre is.

NIOH IS NOT EVEN THAT LONG.... it's as long as you , the player make it out to be. There is 2 mission by region, followed by 1 that make you go to the next region. It's super fast. Nioh being too long is ridiculous

PS: grinding to be on the same level as the mission in NIOH is stupid. You don't need to do that. heck the missiong itself will get you close to the recommanded level by itself. There is no reason to grind for level in NIoh , unless you don't want to bother learning how to fight properly and complain that you need to grind.

PS2 : The idea that a Loot-based game is too long is kinda ridiculous. Again , you can still perfectly rush to the ending. But loot game are made so that you can replay the part to get the thing you want and it's that design that is used in nioh
 
I feel the game overall is a pretty "decent" Souls clone with some cool mechanics that differentiate it from what From made, but nothing more, at least from where I played it to. I think a sequel should hopefully improve on the level design, bosses and enemies next time. Feels very much like a proof of concept. I will return to it at some point, just this year has been so busy with better games.
 
I'm with you on this one OP, it was a slog in the 2 last regions! I don't understand how my friends got on that NG+ right after the credit rolled. Fatigue was real!
 

heathen

Member
It would have been a much better game if they had just cut out all of the repeated levels and bosses. Like, I felt that I had already played the game twice by the time I finished it once.
 
Do not let this stop you.
OP gave up and didn't learn proper mechanics.

Hop over to the OT and we'll help you out :)

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1348884

Well OP annoyance with the game is mostly his own fault , so you should be fine as long as you pace yourself and pay attention to what the game tells you.

whoaaaa

Step off with this passive-aggressive bullshit that it's my fault because I didn't Get Gud
or understand it's deeeeep depth
I've finished the following longer games in recent the years:

Demon's Souls - 60hrs
Dark Souls - 60hrs
Bloodborne - 40hrs
FFXV - 50hrs
Horizon - 38hrs

etc.

Do you know why?

Because they are the sum of their parts and they offered up enough new experience and variety throughout that time, which lead to my continued interest...
 
It is too bloated for its own good. Quality should always be prioritised over quantity, always. Hence why Bloodborne is the better game.

I still really like it though.
Tried going back to BB after Nioh and it's tough. The combat options and framerate are too good in Nioh. Their post launch support has also been stellar, Can't wait for a sequel.
 

Gestahl

Member
Nioh was tedium incarnate. It has decent visuals and solid mechanics but the drab artstyle, bloated systems and Diablo loot, and conservative, rote encounter design never lets the game climb above mediocrity.
 

steven28

Member
I loved it,i thought it was better than dark souls 2 & 3 and almost as good as bloodborne.Yes the enemy and weapon variety is limited but the game was so fun for me,it took me back to my onimusha days as well.
 

Antiwhippy

the holder of the trombone

Mutant

Member
So if you enjoyed it for 15 hours and didn't care about the plot...why not just play for 15 hours and be done with it
Yeah, sometimes I feel like that too when I hear someone complain that they played a game for 15~100 hours and it became bad and how horrible of a crime that was.
 

Sanctuary

Member
I didn't have an issue finishing the game once, and that was also including all of the time I spent figuring out what the stats and mods actually did via testing. The game really is too long for replays though. I ended up in the third region on Way of the Strong before not being able to stand it any longer. I even recently bought the DLC after a three month break, but I'm not sure when I'll actually reach the new content. Started over with a spear build, and am only in the third region of the base difficulty. The loot is obnoxious to deal with, and the enemy variety could have used about half as much again.


They aren't even really comparable, so not really. The closest comparison would be Bloodborne, but the enemy movement and damage are totally different. It's like comparing Ninja Gaiden to Dark Souls and going "Yeah, Ninja Gaiden has better action game combat!". Well duh. The Souls games are action/adventure games that have "good" everything, while Nioh is an action game that pretends it's something more.

Honestly, yes and I fucking love Soulsborne games.

It's the 60FPS.

Because you can't play Dark Souls 1 - 3 on PC at 60fps?
 

Poppincaps

Neo Member
Is the combat better than souls?

Combat is made up of 2 parts: The player character and the enemies. In terms of the player character, that side of the combat is far deeper. I found the game overall to be easier than the Soulsbourne games, but it has a much higher skill cap in terms of how efficient you can be in your kills.

As for the enemies, Nioh doesn't even compare. It has a few interesting bosses and some somewhat interesting trash mobs, but they are overused far too much and eventually even the engaging and deep combat of Nioh becomes somewhat boring (imo). Honestly the enemies, including many of the bosses are just very easily exploited. They have very little tracking. The main difficulty comes from the fact that a lot of bosses will kill you in 2 hits, so it's more of a situation where you'll get hit less often in Nioh but when you do you're in serious danger of dying straight out.

Nioh is easier than Dark Souls, which is fine considering it is more fun, but unfortunately it overstays its welcome just a little bit too much.
 
I really enjoyed the game, but I agree with OP. Fantastic combat mechanics wasted on repetitive enemies and uninspired, HP sponge bosses.

Edit: nioh definitely has a deeper combat system. Soulsborne outclasses it in every other way by a landslide.
 

TokiDoki

Member
whoaaaa

Step off with this passive-aggressive bullshit that it's my fault because I didn't Get Gud
or understand it's deeeeep depth
I've finished the following longer games in recent the years:

Demon's Souls - 60hrs
Dark Souls - 60hrs
Bloodborne - 40hrs
FFXV - 50hrs
Horizon - 38hrs

etc.

Do you know why?

Because they are the sum of their parts and they offered up enough new experience and variety throughout that time, which lead to my continued interest...

You have chosen the wrong game for this topic . FFXV is the real slog to be finished .
 
I enjoyed the first half of Nioh more than Bloodborne
But also the second half of Bloodborne more than Nioh

It really didn't keep introducing crazy new enemies and environments like its counterpart, but started off really strong.
 
whoaaaa

Step off with this passive-aggressive bullshit that it's my fault because I didn't Get Gud
or understand it's deeeeep depth
I've finished the following longer games in recent the years:

Demon's Souls - 60hrs
Dark Souls - 60hrs
Bloodborne - 40hrs
FFXV - 50hrs
Horizon - 38hrs

etc.

Do you know why?

Because they are the sum of their parts and they offered up enough new experience and variety throughout that time, which lead to my continued interest...

I've already said why i've spoken like this , in a post before that.
And i stand by everything i've said.
1)
You're telling me that you've finished demon souls AND dark souls , but feels like the bosses in nioh are difficulty spikes ? This doesn't compute. It's the same logic in all 3 games. With bosses requiring to adapt to new mecanics. There is no reason why the bosses in nioh are difficulty spikes if the bosses in demon souls and dark souls aren't.
Also the bosses in nioh should give you the "more content" for your interest that you're looking for..not sure why this doesn't count here.

2) Your comment about speed builds/light build is just proof that you don't understand the mecanics of the game. As i've stated and as other have stated light build/speed builds are perfectly viable options and i've personnaly finished the game exclusivly using this method. It's not a "folly". i'm not even going to comment on the "auto tracking" part of the sentence. all attacks can either be evaded or blocked depending on the build used by the player. this is just a fact. There are 2 exception to this rule, where the game give you more time than usual to adapt to a specific pattern.

3) The loot system doesn't devalues a thing.
First , unless you want it , as a player( i mean ) you shouldn't have a full inventory by completing a level.
Second , there is no reason to not use the loot to get money or xp ( or even materials ) , and the color system make it easy to see what is worthwhile and what isn't .. there is no reason to spend time in the menu for some obscure reason when you should be looking at the color of the item or the level of the item first.
Third : it's a loot game and you're already aware that the game give you sorting options And you should be aware of favorites options so you can empty your inventory is a couple of seconds to get money or level up your spirit.
If you spend too much time in the menus , it's because you haven't figured out what to do with your loot so my conclusion is that your lack of knowledge on the game is there.

4) you tend to be behind the suggested level
That level is nothing but a suggestion , heck it has no relation to your character.
If you think it has any bearing on the ennemies , then you haven't figured out the loot system . Like i can do a Lv 160 dongeon while being lv 90 and have no problem at all. Making those statements just means that you haven't understood the game.

5) The time spent with the game
It actually has no real implication on how you can understand nioh mecanics , since as pointed by the previous point , you were focused on the level of the character
Meaning that in those 50 hours , that you've restarted it seems since you 've stated that you've done 2 characters .... you didn't figure out the mecanics and brute forced your way with armrita , since by your own admission , you've had to "grind" for level.


So i stand by what i've said. It's not even some passive agressive thing. I'm plainly stating that you've not figured out how to play the game despite restarting it already. And thus your experience with the game is not the usual that could happen to a new player. Many players firgured out the things i've stated above and while nioh does have flaws , it's not the slog you think it is.
 
I'm elated you figured out the science of it and evidently I didn't understand it enough for it to be fun
....the thing is though, is that I didn't find said science of it all to be that interesting enough to dive deep/keep going. I got fairly far on what I UNDERSTOOD (IE - I had a plan/system for loot management, I spec'd a balanced Sword/Spear build, etc.) as far as the mechanics and how things worked. Some bosses were hard, some I got on my first try. Some enemies posed a bit of a challenge, after awhile, I just walked over them. There was progression. I didn't hit a wall and give up.

Ultimately, I saw what the game had to offer and I simply had enough. Maybe I didn't understand (in your opinion) some of it's intricacies, but I still had fun with it for a good haul with what I did understand
Everything you wrote makes complete sense and oh, I get it

...that still doesn't dismiss the fact that the game is mostly the same shit copied n' pasted in a fair bit of it's aspects This is what makes it a slog
 

SpokkX

Member
So I've probably put 50+ hours between two different characters (got really distracted with other things, so just decided to reroll at one point). As of right now i'm on the 4th region and I'm having to grind out levels in the sub-missions, otherwise, you tend to be 4 or so more behind the "Suggested level"

I.... I just don't understand how this game gets such a fucking pass for the fact that it's latter half is some ol' outright bullshit

- You will fight THE SAME enemies over and over and over again
- But once you're done fight those enemies over and over again, you'll eventually encounter a boss that will lead to an awkward as hell difficulty spike
- Some said bosses have such HILARIOUS auto-tracking that a speed build/L-Armor build becomes folly
- The Diablo loot system WILL eventually become tedious and it ultimately devalues EVERYTHING. You should not have to so much goddamn time in menus- and yes, this is even after utilizing the game's built QoL sorting/Item management flags
- The fucking reused levels.... like, I was willing to give this a pass because the core gameplay loop truly is god-like at points. Eventually tho, enough is enough. You've been thru the same graveyard, same rainy mountain pass, same village, same etc., OVER AND OVER again. It's so insultingly indulgent and rather the developers take the L and accept what they DO have is awesome, no, they have to completely spoil it in order to pad the game-length
NIOH DOES NOT NEED TO BE AS LONG AS IT IS.
What could have been a awesome, tight, 15 hour romp, becomes the epitome of excess.
- Then you have the plot, which yeah, one can follow it, but why should you give a shit. William just fixes everyone else's problems and MAYBE will get back to the entire point of even going to Japan. It's really sad to because the production values are good, the character models are gorgeous, the voice acting is pretty good, the dialog is solid. Yet, because you have seemingly a fairly limited narrative, the pacing/motivation get's completely lost because the developers insisted in stretching it across hours upon hours of busy-work.

Understand, I fucking adored this game the first 15 hours in. I still Loved 10 more hours in. Then exhaustion yet another 15 hours in. Now.... I borderline hate the game as it's such a wasted opportunity

I won't even go into Souls comparisons because I DO think Nioh is very much enough of it's own thing. The problem is said thing, is well... ultimately hollow on the other end

Spot on! I fell exactly the same way

Gave up after 20-something hours - there really is gameplay for only 15 here
 

xviper

Member
i agree with you OP, it's an overrated trash, the only good thing about it were the bosses

but, you know how sony exclusives are, no matter how shitty they are, they will be praised, especially on GAF, just look at The last guardian
 

myco666

Member
1)
You're telling me that you've finished demon souls AND dark souls , but feels like the bosses in nioh are difficulty spikes ? This doesn't compute. It's the same logic in all 3 games. With bosses requiring to adapt to new mecanics. There is no reason why the bosses in nioh are difficulty spikes if the bosses in demon souls and dark souls aren't.
Also the bosses in nioh should give you the "more content" for your interest that you're looking for..not sure why this doesn't count here.

Yes it does compute. Nioh is piss easy when it comes to levels. After first few levels you have seen majority of the enemies you will be fighting against so they pose very little threat. You are basically cruising through the levels. Bosses however crank the difficulty up to 11 every single time. Sure Souls has it difficulty spikes but they are nothing compared to Nioh.

i agree with you OP, it's an overrated trash, the only good thing about it were the bosses

but, you know how sony exclusives are, no matter how shitty they are, they will be praised, especially on GAF, just look at The last guardian

lol
 
Could not agree more OP. So much fun spending every single point in skill for double sword and light armor build and getting one shoted by a girl in her evening dress, with a fucking guidance system that the US military would be in awe of, that takes hundreds of hits to take down. Switching to a katana also showed that spending all those points in skill was pretty much useless since it did the same damage.

Hey let's put on equipment against paralyzed for the vamp boss and watch it not matter one bit.

There is no reason for many of the side quest at all outside of exp.

The story is a fuking joke as well especially the main character that have like 5 lines through out the game.

Most disappointed game I have played in ages after all the acclaim from people here and critics and it only made me want to play the souls game again.
 
i agree with you OP, it's an overrated trash, the only good thing about it were the bosses

but, you know how sony exclusives are, no matter how shitty they are, they will be praised, especially on GAF, just look at The last guardian

132045-ariana-grande-eye-roll-gif-img-puw8.gif
 
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