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Does NeoGAF harbor rockist attitudes?

in case you don't know the definition:

Rockism is the belief in the superiority of particular values of rock music, which often results in discrimination and prejudice against other forms of popular music.[2] A "rockist" may also be someone who regards rock music as the normative state of popular music

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockism_and_poptimism

I've noticed a lot of negative bias towards pop music on this forum. Do you believe they are informed by rockist attitudes?
 
Pop is responsible for it's own poor reputation. It has nothing to do with liking rock music. A lot of the famous people who make pop records don't even write it or play any instruments.
 
I listen to metal (mostly djent, melodic death metal, progressive) and wholeheartedly embrace the fact that most people think it's crap. But I'll defend the talent behind it even while admitting it has limited appeal.

I'm not one to cast aspersions on the music people listen to. Technical/instrumental skill is only one of many facets that are important to creating good music.
 

llien

Member
I don't think there is an objective way to measure what particular piece of art is worth.
Hence, there could be only "superior for me", but never "objectively superior".
 
D

Deleted member 713885

Unconfirmed Member
Rap was our (kids of the late 80's-90's) real punk.
Now its the Fast Food equivalent of music.
Its the Disco or Hair Metal of music.
 

DeSo

Banned
Guys, Rasta is a troll account shared between users, this was admitted to on another board. Basically ignore anything they say, just an elaborate troll.
 

jobrro

Member
Guys, Rasta is a troll account shared between users, this was admitted to on another board. Basically ignore anything they say, just an elaborate troll.

Feels like this is a recurring theme here lately. Someone else was banned here very recently, maybe for the same reason.
 

highrider

Banned
An easy way to divine out these people is fandom of Bela Fleck and King Crimson. I’m convinced people only list these as favorites to seem musically complex in their tastes.
 

Senua

Member
Modern pop music sucks ass.

A lot of pop from the 60's - 70's 80's is absolutely brilliant. Compare something like Dancing Queen to any shite on the radio today and you'll realise how far we've fallen.
 

DeSo

Banned
Feels like this is a recurring theme here lately. Someone else was banned here very recently, maybe for the same reason.
I wouldn't have called it out if their account was remotely funny or interesting but it's just tedious to be honest.

Modern pop music sucks ass.

It's not all bad, there is good stuff but you have to search it out. As a big metal/rock guy, you'd never think I'd enjoy someone like Carly Rae Jespen but she made some good shit with Emotion.

Check out Alvvays' "Antisocialites", Ulver's "The Assassination of Julius Caesar" and Perfume Genius' "No Shape". Good pop music is still out there but don't expect to hear it on the radio.
 

Basoes

Member
Gaf seems to have more of a Popist attitude, lately I've seen nothing but why pop is good and why rihanna is the god queen of the universe ( most of it coming from the same person but my point stands)
 

Wamb0wneD

Member
please explain why this matters

Because making music is a creative process, and when a person is not involved in that he/she isn't a good musician? I have nothing against people who just sing. Some phenomenal voices out there that make for some great music, but it's not the same thing.

I also don't know if "rockist" is the right term. I can appreciate rappers as well, the ones that don't make their own beats too, for their delivery. Or electronic musicians that don't just stand there with their laptop at jams.

K-Pop on the other hand is mostly devoid of creativity when it comes ot the actual protagonists, at least when it's groups performing. It's mass produced entertainment. That's what pop-music is a lot of times. That's not inherintly a bad thing, it's just not the same thing as someone actually doing this stuff by himself. The genre doesn't really matter.
Guys, Rasta is a troll account shared between users, this was admitted to on another board. Basically ignore anything they say, just an elaborate troll.
Wut... Ahahaha ok, nvm then.
 
Because making music is a creative process, and when a person is not involved in that he/she isn't a good musician? I have nothing against people who just sing. Some phenomenal voices out there that make for some great music, but it's not the same thing.

are the people who actually make the music not involved in a creative process

it seems the issue is that you're unsettled that the face of the music or the person performing it didn't actually make the music

I'm asking why that matters when the writers, producers, etc. are people with musical talent that is reflected in the compositions they create
 
I listen to metal (mostly djent, melodic death metal, progressive) and wholeheartedly embrace the fact that most people think it's crap. But I'll defend the talent behind it even while admitting it has limited appeal.

I'm not one to cast aspersions on the music people listen to. Technical/instrumental skill is only one of many facets that are important to creating good music.

Just Googled Djent.

Meshuggah is djent?

What bands should I listen to to understand the subgenre? What is it just really downtuned and mathematic?
 

EverydayBeast

thinks Halo Infinite is a new graphical benchmark
4830053-2810590980-tumbl.gif
 
Just Googled Djent.

Meshuggah is djent?

What bands should I listen to to understand the subgenre? What is it just really downtuned and mathematic?
Djent is the low, quickly palm muted notes in some progressive metal. Some bands have embraced the sound and structured their entire set around it. Easier to call it djent than progressive metal that palm mutes a ton of notes in a structured fashion, imo.

It's usually characterized by poppy cleans mixed with brutal growls. My top 3 recent bands are
Drewsif Stalin's Musical Endeavors (just a dude on YouTube making great music. Heavily layered vocals and great instrumentals. Listen to ...Comes to an End, imo his best album)
Monuments (much poppier cleans than the above. Listen to The Amanuensis)
Intervals (first album is djent, though the second is one of my favorite instrumental albums)
 

EverydayBeast

thinks Halo Infinite is a new graphical benchmark
Rap was our (kids of the late 80's-90's) real punk.
Now its the Fast Food equivalent of music.
Its the Disco or Hair Metal of music.

Its a performer with an image first and a set of skills second.

He or she then acquires the music from a producer, or mutiple producers, then will pack a tape with mutiple 'features' to churn out an even more commerical fast food product.

Everyone who defends modern rap will always pick from a list of 3 or 4 mildly skilled guys who cant even compare to the GOATs that came before them since the art is just so trash now.


Rock/A Band tho...

Its 2 or 3 or 4 or 5 or even more guys...sitting down over months or years.
Spending years perfecting their musical talent on an instrument and creating a song.
Laying down drums, bass, guitars, vocals, etc..
Not calling up DJ DogShit and saying "Hey, let me buy a beat"
Not writing 10 lines of lyrics then having the next 2 minutes consisiting of a hook or 3 features.
Not having every song consist of some form of expressing a need for expensive items, money, sex, guns or drugs.


Rap hit its high point around 1999.

The death of rap happened just as Puff Daddy on the shiny suits hit MTV TRL. It was at that point the flood gates open and the last 20 years rap has been commericalized fast food pop music and lost its 'Punk' 'Rebel' side.
Rock died and Rap and Pop intertwined and became one.



Also, the thread I got banned in talking about rap last week..



Thank you for proving me right Lil Peep.

God you fuckers are so commerical now you csnt even come up with more names then 'Lil'
Lil peep, pump, thug, etc.. haha..

And speaking of "commerical"..These songs have been basically 'commericals' telling us to buy high priced items. From Gucci to Rolex.
Titles of songs with car names in them, rappers with actual product names..
Its like every rapper is a sports stadium, commercially branded.

I created that thread and am sorry you got temporary banned. I think the problem with these types of topics are no one cares to take the time to understand where that person is coming from.
 

mantidor

Member
Check out Alvvays' "Antisocialites", Ulver's "The Assassination of Julius Caesar" and Perfume Genius' "No Shape". Good pop music is still out there but don't expect to hear it on the radio.

I know Ulver has changed drastically over their history but can it really be considered pop?
 

Jezan

Member
If you like a song and it makes you feel something it's supposed to make you feel then I think it's not trash. So just enjoy it, people will often say pop sucks or whatever but then again it is popular because many people can identify with it.
 
I mean i mostly listen to rock, metal and so on but i can enjoy listening to some pop tune now and then. I never listen to Top 40 radio so the songs are not overplayed for me. Some recent songs i have liked are carly rae jepsen - run away with me and Taylor Swift - Style..

Even got a popmusic playlist on Spotify with a few tunes on it, title is obv dated now but anyway. https://open.spotify.com/user/martinski43/playlist/7GcwlZhmhDiXhLU0AnKwyS?si=PmF1qLJaQiqnuSewlsEC7Q

K-pop is straight trash though, i dont see the appeal at all. I feel it’s a hipster thing that people like it ironically.. since it’s bottom barrel pop drivel.
 
People put value in the creative talent of the artist they like? What a weird question.

why is the creative talent of the artist more important than the creative talent of those who aren't performing the music?

it's not a weird question at all

if a song is well composed and well produced then it's a good song regardless of whether or not the singer was involved. yall are telling me you hear songs that you enjoy and suddenly they become less valuable when you realize the singer didn't write it or can't play instruments?
 

DiscoJer

Member
I'm not even sure there is a musical genre called "pop". It's really more a modifier. Pop rock, pop dance, etc.

However, with that said, I do think the quality of "pop" whatzits has declined, but that applies to music in general. Until Greta Van Fleet came along, I hadn't liked a new rock song in literally 20 years.

OTOH, I do think a few recent(ish) songs will be classics 50 years from now. Uptown Funk and Just Dance are good songs, period.
 

Kuksune

Member
I mostly listen to rock, but if i find some track that makes me feel something, it won't matter what genre it belongs to.

For example:
https://youtu.be/vglxk3JbHnQ "lights out, words gone" is a salsa song that is relaxing and gets me in a good mood.

The deportees albums "Islands & shores" and "the big sleep" have both uplifting and depressing songs.
 

Greedings

Member
I don't like pop music, and generally prefer rock or hip hop. If you want to make my taste in music an "-ism" then I think there's something wrong with you.
 
We're gonna continue to shit on terrible pop music as long as you keep making threads about terrible pop artists. All your recommendations up to this point have been utter garbage.
 

Grinchy

Banned
I just have a hard time respecting the pop stars who are handed completed songs, sing with their average to above average voice on them, and then have fans who pretend that they are the most influential artists of the past 1000 years.
 

Composer

Member
I just have a hard time respecting the pop stars who are handed completed songs, sing with their average to above average voice on them, and then have fans who pretend that they are the most influential artists of the past 1000 years.

This guy gets it.
 
I just have a hard time respecting the pop stars who are handed completed songs, sing with their average to above average voice on them, and then have fans who pretend that they are the most influential artists of the past 1000 years.

We're talking about music. Not necessarily the artist.

It's very worrying how every poster here consistently avoids the point. This is a very well documented phenomenon.

We're gonna continue to shit on terrible pop music as long as you keep making threads about terrible pop artists. All your recommendations up to this point have been utter garbage.

Rihanna's music is critically acclaimed. She's actually the 25th most acclaimed artist this decade. You must have bad taste.
 

Grinchy

Banned
We're talking about music. Not necessarily the artist.

It's very worrying how every poster here consistently avoids the point. This is a very well documented phenomenon.



Rihanna's music is critically acclaimed. She's actually the 25th most acclaimed artist this decade. You must have bad taste.

You yourself just talked about the artist right after saying that's it's avoiding the point. Maybe it's because the artist is tied to the art? And pop artists are only artists if an 8 year old using a paint-by-numbers set is an painter.
 
You yourself just talked about the artist right after saying that's it's avoiding the point. Maybe it's because the artist is tied to the art? And pop artists are only artists if an 8 year old using a paint-by-numbers set is an painter.

"rihanna's music" is an artist?
 
Isn't there an element of misogyny to it all, too?

I don't think it's a coincidence JT revered on NeoGAF while Beyoncé (whose music is far more acclaimed) is spoken of as if she cannot sing.
 
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