....Something makes me think that Campbell is/was getting orders from the Patriots.Ether_Snake said:EDIT: Or Big Boss and Campbell have always willingly taken part of this; making a world where war is entirely controlled by them, because war will always exist. The goal of The Patriots may have been to find a way to "encapsulate" war since it will always exist, rather than letting it roam freely, and just let soldiers join whatever side they want to join. The Patriots would merely regulate the war to make sure it doesn't trouble humanity's progress, and soldiers would always have a place to fight in rather than aimlessly wander and trigger unpredictable conflicts of their own. People like Gene, Liquid, Liquid-Ocelot, Solidus, have been taken down to prevent chaos from breaking the container
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mgs4 scans - bosses shown
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Ether_Snake
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Darkpen said:
Yeah I think I'm writing my final theory on it all, it's clearer and makes much more sense. That is part of it
Ether_Snake
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Ok I'm gonna spoilers this one, cause I feel it may really be what MGS4 will be all about, so read at your own risk
The Patriots have come to understand, like Big Boss at the end of MPO, that certain individuals will always need war. But The Patriots also want humanity to progress, and war can make this progress unpredictable.
Big Boss (MPO)The meaning of justice can change from one day to the next. A professional soldier never brings justice into the mission. The only ones who need a reason to fight are the ones who fight for a living. That's what my mentor told me. Politics are fickle. They change with the times. So long as we remain loyal to our countries, soldiers like us need nothing to believe in. She died out of loyalty - not to justice, not to her country. To herself. For the mission.
---
I'm not living unless I'm in battle. So I have to find my own reason to fight. I have to pass on what's been handed down to me...
So The Patriots have decided to take CONTROL of war. To manage it. Their goal has been to be the ones behind every conflict; to be the ones that will instigate all conflicts, judge all conflicts, and to end all conflicts, because war is a potential threat in their grand scheme, but one that will always exist.
By taking control of war, war would never hamper humanity's progress because it would be constantly regulated, and soldiers would always have a place to fight. They can chose their sides, fight for what they believe in, even tho in the end the motivations behind the wars are fabrications. They never need to know the truth.
In MG1 and MG2, The Patriots seized an opportunity (or instigated it). They wanted to see if they could monitor, regulate, and end a conflict that threatened their rule. It was a success. The fact that this conflict was started by a potential member of The Patriots raises questions that will probably go unanswered until MGS4. It's possible that Outer Heaven and the Zanzibar Uprising was merely a test case, with Big Boss serving his final mission in the same way The Boss served her final mission. He would be known to the rest of the world as a traitor who attempted to unleash a nuclear war, when in fact he simply died for the mission. Hence why in MGS4 we see that his grave (if it's his) is identical to The Boss' grave. He served the same purpose, to the same people. But it is possible that just like The Boss, he died empty, unable to fulfill his true dream, and passed the torch to his successor, hoping that Solid Snake would not be a prisoner to fate as he and his mentor were.
In MGS1, a conflict similar to the one in MPO emerged, a conflict not started by The Patriots, but by a rogue soldier; Liquid Snake. Their former insurance policy was used, Solid Snake, whom had been developed during the Outer Heaven/Zanzibar incidents, and the conflict was controlled and ended, once again under the supervision of Roy Campbell.
In MGS2, The Patriots develop a method to control the flow of information, a method similar to the one they developed to control war. They trigger a conflict, observe it, manage it, and end it, through the use of information. By the end of the exercise (again under the supervision of Campbell, altho an AI version), they finally achieve complete control. They are now in control of humanity's progress and they can deal with the emergence of any conflicts that would threaten their rule.
By the time of MGS4, war has finally been entirely regulated, thanks to The Patriots:
Solid Snake (MGS4): War has changed. It's not about nations, or ideologies. It's not even about profit, resources, or ethnicity. It's an endless series of proxy battles, fought by mercenaries and machines.
War, and its vast consumption of human life, has become a rational, well-oiled business transaction.
War has changed. ID-tagged soldiers carry ID-tagged weapons, use ID-tagged gear. Nanomachines inside their bodies enhance and regulate their actions.
Genetic control... information control... Emotion control... Battlefield control. Everything is monitored, and kept under control.
War has changed. The age of deterrence is now the age of control, averting catastrophe from weapons of mass destruction. And he who controls the battlefield, controls history.
War has changed. When the battlefield is under total control, war becomes routine.
The Patriots have achieved their goal. They are in complete control of human progress and can prevent any conflict from going out of control. Their system of information control enables them to filter the evolution of mankind, and their system of battlefield control enables them to keep war regulated; to make it nothing more than a routine part of a grand system of control. Even the world economy's balance relies on it, according to Campbell.
War continues endlessly, but is under complete control and hence human progress remains on track, under their supervision. Those who start conflicts are nothing but puppets in a grand system of control. No one is truly fighting for their causes anymore. Everyone is fight with the: Guns of The Patriots.
What will Solid Snake do? He is sent to eliminate Liquid, under the supervision and command of Roy Campbell, once more. If he erases himself from existence, him, his genes, his memes, then The Patriots lose and Liquid-Ocelot will succeed in throwing a wrench in their system of control, causing the world to fall into ruin, but at the same time freeing the world and leaving it to decide its own future. Will he do it?
Elisa (MPO): Your son will bring the world to ruin... Your son... will save... the world.
Big Boss (MPO)The meaning of justice can change from one day to the next. A professional soldier never brings justice into the mission. The only ones who need a reason to fight are the ones who fight for a living. That's what my mentor told me. Politics are fickle. They change with the times. So long as we remain loyal to our countries, soldiers like us need nothing to believe in. She died out of loyalty - not to justice, not to her country. To herself. For the mission.
---
I'm not living unless I'm in battle. So I have to find my own reason to fight. I have to pass on what's been handed down to me...
So The Patriots have decided to take CONTROL of war. To manage it. Their goal has been to be the ones behind every conflict; to be the ones that will instigate all conflicts, judge all conflicts, and to end all conflicts, because war is a potential threat in their grand scheme, but one that will always exist.
By taking control of war, war would never hamper humanity's progress because it would be constantly regulated, and soldiers would always have a place to fight. They can chose their sides, fight for what they believe in, even tho in the end the motivations behind the wars are fabrications. They never need to know the truth.
In MG1 and MG2, The Patriots seized an opportunity (or instigated it). They wanted to see if they could monitor, regulate, and end a conflict that threatened their rule. It was a success. The fact that this conflict was started by a potential member of The Patriots raises questions that will probably go unanswered until MGS4. It's possible that Outer Heaven and the Zanzibar Uprising was merely a test case, with Big Boss serving his final mission in the same way The Boss served her final mission. He would be known to the rest of the world as a traitor who attempted to unleash a nuclear war, when in fact he simply died for the mission. Hence why in MGS4 we see that his grave (if it's his) is identical to The Boss' grave. He served the same purpose, to the same people. But it is possible that just like The Boss, he died empty, unable to fulfill his true dream, and passed the torch to his successor, hoping that Solid Snake would not be a prisoner to fate as he and his mentor were.
In MGS1, a conflict similar to the one in MPO emerged, a conflict not started by The Patriots, but by a rogue soldier; Liquid Snake. Their former insurance policy was used, Solid Snake, whom had been developed during the Outer Heaven/Zanzibar incidents, and the conflict was controlled and ended, once again under the supervision of Roy Campbell.
In MGS2, The Patriots develop a method to control the flow of information, a method similar to the one they developed to control war. They trigger a conflict, observe it, manage it, and end it, through the use of information. By the end of the exercise (again under the supervision of Campbell, altho an AI version), they finally achieve complete control. They are now in control of humanity's progress and they can deal with the emergence of any conflicts that would threaten their rule.
By the time of MGS4, war has finally been entirely regulated, thanks to The Patriots:
Solid Snake (MGS4): War has changed. It's not about nations, or ideologies. It's not even about profit, resources, or ethnicity. It's an endless series of proxy battles, fought by mercenaries and machines.
War, and its vast consumption of human life, has become a rational, well-oiled business transaction.
War has changed. ID-tagged soldiers carry ID-tagged weapons, use ID-tagged gear. Nanomachines inside their bodies enhance and regulate their actions.
Genetic control... information control... Emotion control... Battlefield control. Everything is monitored, and kept under control.
War has changed. The age of deterrence is now the age of control, averting catastrophe from weapons of mass destruction. And he who controls the battlefield, controls history.
War has changed. When the battlefield is under total control, war becomes routine.
The Patriots have achieved their goal. They are in complete control of human progress and can prevent any conflict from going out of control. Their system of information control enables them to filter the evolution of mankind, and their system of battlefield control enables them to keep war regulated; to make it nothing more than a routine part of a grand system of control. Even the world economy's balance relies on it, according to Campbell.
War continues endlessly, but is under complete control and hence human progress remains on track, under their supervision. Those who start conflicts are nothing but puppets in a grand system of control. No one is truly fighting for their causes anymore. Everyone is fight with the: Guns of The Patriots.
What will Solid Snake do? He is sent to eliminate Liquid, under the supervision and command of Roy Campbell, once more. If he erases himself from existence, him, his genes, his memes, then The Patriots lose and Liquid-Ocelot will succeed in throwing a wrench in their system of control, causing the world to fall into ruin, but at the same time freeing the world and leaving it to decide its own future. Will he do it?
Elisa (MPO): Your son will bring the world to ruin... Your son... will save... the world.
Nervous Hamster
Member
Ether_Snake said:Ok I'm gonna spoilers this one, cause I feel it may really be what MGS4 will be all about, so read at your own risk
The Patriots have come to understand, like Big Boss at the end of MPO, that certain individuals will always need war. But The Patriots also want humanity to progress, and war can make this progress unpredictable.
Big Boss (MPO)The meaning of justice can change from one day to the next. A professional soldier never brings justice into the mission. The only ones who need a reason to fight are the ones who fight for a living. That's what my mentor told me. Politics are fickle. They change with the times. So long as we remain loyal to our countries, soldiers like us need nothing to believe in. She died out of loyalty - not to justice, not to her country. To herself. For the mission.
---
I'm not living unless I'm in battle. So I have to find my own reason to fight. I have to pass on what's been handed down to me...
So The Patriots have decided to take CONTROL of war. To manage it. Their goal has been to be the ones behind every conflict; to be the ones that will instigate all conflicts, judge all conflicts, and to end all conflicts, because war is a potential threat in their grand scheme, but one that will always exist.
By taking control of war, war would never hamper humanity's progress because it would be constantly regulated, and soldiers would always have a place to fight. They can chose their sides, fight for what they believe in, even tho in the end the motivations behind the wars are fabrications. They never need to know the truth.
In MG1 and MG2, The Patriots seized an opportunity (or instigated it). They wanted to see if they could monitor, regulate, and end a conflict that threatened their rule. It was a success. The fact that this conflict was started by a potential member of The Patriots raises questions that will probably go unanswered until MGS4. It's possible that Outer Heaven and the Zanzibar Uprising was merely a test case, with Big Boss serving his final mission in the same way The Boss served her final mission. He would be known to the rest of the world as a traitor who attempted to unleash a nuclear war, when in fact he simply died for the mission. Hence why in MGS4 we see that his grave (if it's his) is identical to The Boss' grave. He served the same purpose, to the same people. But it is possible that just like The Boss, he died empty, unable to fulfill his true dream, and passed the torch to his successor, hoping that Solid Snake would not be a prisoner to fate as he and his mentor were.
In MGS1, a conflict similar to the one in MPO emerged, a conflict not started by The Patriots, but by a rogue soldier; Liquid Snake. Their former insurance policy was used, Solid Snake, whom had been developed during the Outer Heaven/Zanzibar incidents, and the conflict was controlled and ended, once again under the supervision of Roy Campbell.
In MGS2, The Patriots develop a method to control the flow of information, a method similar to the one they developed to control war. They trigger a conflict, observe it, manage it, and end it, through the use of information. By the end of the exercise (again under the supervision of Campbell, altho an AI version), they finally achieve complete control. They are now in control of humanity's progress and they can deal with the emergence of any conflicts that would threaten their rule.
By the time of MGS4, war has finally been entirely regulated, thanks to The Patriots:
Solid Snake (MGS4): War has changed. It's not about nations, or ideologies. It's not even about profit, resources, or ethnicity. It's an endless series of proxy battles, fought by mercenaries and machines.
War, and its vast consumption of human life, has become a rational, well-oiled business transaction.
War has changed. ID-tagged soldiers carry ID-tagged weapons, use ID-tagged gear. Nanomachines inside their bodies enhance and regulate their actions.
Genetic control... information control... Emotion control... Battlefield control. Everything is monitored, and kept under control.
War has changed. The age of deterrence is now the age of control, averting catastrophe from weapons of mass destruction. And he who controls the battlefield, controls history.
War has changed. When the battlefield is under total control, war becomes routine.
The Patriots have achieved their goal. They are in complete control of human progress and can prevent any conflict from going out of control. Their system of information control enables them to filter the evolution of mankind, and their system of battlefield control enables them to keep war regulated; to make it nothing more than a routine part of a grand system of control. Even the world economy's balance relies on it, according to Campbell.
War continues endlessly, but is under complete control and hence human progress remains on track, under their supervision. Those who start conflicts are nothing but puppets in a grand system of control. No one is truly fighting for their causes anymore. Everyone is fight with the: Guns of The Patriots.
What will Solid Snake do? He is sent to eliminate Liquid, under the supervision and command of Roy Campbell, once more. If he erases himself from existence, him, his genes, his memes, then The Patriots lose and Liquid-Ocelot will succeed in throwing a wrench in their system of control, causing the world to fall into ruin, but at the same time freeing the world and leaving it to decide its own future. Will he do it?
Elisa (MPO): Your son will bring the world to ruin... Your son... will save... the world.
"You bastard!"
dragon_feces
Member
Ether_Snake said:Ok I'm gonna spoilers this one, cause I feel it may really be what MGS4 will be all about, so read at your own risk
The Patriots have come to understand, like Big Boss at the end of MPO, that certain individuals will always need war. But The Patriots also want humanity to progress, and war can make this progress unpredictable.
Big Boss (MPO)The meaning of justice can change from one day to the next. A professional soldier never brings justice into the mission. The only ones who need a reason to fight are the ones who fight for a living. That's what my mentor told me. Politics are fickle. They change with the times. So long as we remain loyal to our countries, soldiers like us need nothing to believe in. She died out of loyalty - not to justice, not to her country. To herself. For the mission.
---
I'm not living unless I'm in battle. So I have to find my own reason to fight. I have to pass on what's been handed down to me...
So The Patriots have decided to take CONTROL of war. To manage it. Their goal has been to be the ones behind every conflict; to be the ones that will instigate all conflicts, judge all conflicts, and to end all conflicts, because war is a potential threat in their grand scheme, but one that will always exist.
By taking control of war, war would never hamper humanity's progress because it would be constantly regulated, and soldiers would always have a place to fight. They can chose their sides, fight for what they believe in, even tho in the end the motivations behind the wars are fabrications. They never need to know the truth.
In MG1 and MG2, The Patriots seized an opportunity (or instigated it). They wanted to see if they could monitor, regulate, and end a conflict that threatened their rule. It was a success. The fact that this conflict was started by a potential member of The Patriots raises questions that will probably go unanswered until MGS4. It's possible that Outer Heaven and the Zanzibar Uprising was merely a test case, with Big Boss serving his final mission in the same way The Boss served her final mission. He would be known to the rest of the world as a traitor who attempted to unleash a nuclear war, when in fact he simply died for the mission. Hence why in MGS4 we see that his grave (if it's his) is identical to The Boss' grave. He served the same purpose, to the same people. But it is possible that just like The Boss, he died empty, unable to fulfill his true dream, and passed the torch to his successor, hoping that Solid Snake would not be a prisoner to fate as he and his mentor were.
In MGS1, a conflict similar to the one in MPO emerged, a conflict not started by The Patriots, but by a rogue soldier; Liquid Snake. Their former insurance policy was used, Solid Snake, whom had been developed during the Outer Heaven/Zanzibar incidents, and the conflict was controlled and ended, once again under the supervision of Roy Campbell.
In MGS2, The Patriots develop a method to control the flow of information, a method similar to the one they developed to control war. They trigger a conflict, observe it, manage it, and end it, through the use of information. By the end of the exercise (again under the supervision of Campbell, altho an AI version), they finally achieve complete control. They are now in control of humanity's progress and they can deal with the emergence of any conflicts that would threaten their rule.
By the time of MGS4, war has finally been entirely regulated, thanks to The Patriots:
Solid Snake (MGS4): War has changed. It's not about nations, or ideologies. It's not even about profit, resources, or ethnicity. It's an endless series of proxy battles, fought by mercenaries and machines.
War, and its vast consumption of human life, has become a rational, well-oiled business transaction.
War has changed. ID-tagged soldiers carry ID-tagged weapons, use ID-tagged gear. Nanomachines inside their bodies enhance and regulate their actions.
Genetic control... information control... Emotion control... Battlefield control. Everything is monitored, and kept under control.
War has changed. The age of deterrence is now the age of control, averting catastrophe from weapons of mass destruction. And he who controls the battlefield, controls history.
War has changed. When the battlefield is under total control, war becomes routine.
The Patriots have achieved their goal. They are in complete control of human progress and can prevent any conflict from going out of control. Their system of information control enables them to filter the evolution of mankind, and their system of battlefield control enables them to keep war regulated; to make it nothing more than a routine part of a grand system of control. Even the world economy's balance relies on it, according to Campbell.
War continues endlessly, but is under complete control and hence human progress remains on track, under their supervision. Those who start conflicts are nothing but puppets in a grand system of control. No one is truly fighting for their causes anymore. Everyone is fight with the: Guns of The Patriots.
What will Solid Snake do? He is sent to eliminate Liquid, under the supervision and command of Roy Campbell, once more. If he erases himself from existence, him, his genes, his memes, then The Patriots lose and Liquid-Ocelot will succeed in throwing a wrench in their system of control, causing the world to fall into ruin, but at the same time freeing the world and leaving it to decide its own future. Will he do it?
Elisa (MPO): Your son will bring the world to ruin... Your son... will save... the world.
.
Ether_Snake
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pel1300 said:
I was sort of kidding, obviously there is a supernatural aspect in MGS
But there are strings attached to the guy, and as such there seems no reason to think that nanos are involved. No one did anything supernatural there, other than the flying bit, and even that isn't that crazy.I think Liquid is using machines first and foremost, because humans are controlled with the SOP system, which he hasn't broken through yet. Mantis definitly has the Praying Mantis logo on her chest like the PMC units.
Also, in the TGS05 trailer it felt like the Gekkous command the human units, you can see how they are constantly monitoring the PMC units when we see from their vision, as if they are checking them in case the SOP goes out of control.
And the machines are clearly in a better position to have full understanding of the battlefield's situation, so I'm sure humans are no longer at the top of the food chain in MGS4' time
The machines give the orders, receive data from all soldiers in real-time, and supervise the units.freethought
Member
Ether_Snake said:
Aside from the obvious parallels to the War on Terror, I think this has long been the point. The merging of Liquid and Ocelot is perhaps meant to be analogous to the blending of the Big Boss' ideals and the Patriots desire for control. The one thing that doesn't seem to factor are the militia's. Rather than simply raising them up as a global threat in their own right, the Patriots' plan dictates that these wars be used to trigger massive investment in the PMC's, who then go rogue forcing nation-states to radically increase defense spending and usher in a new era of global aggression. It seems an overly complicated plan but unlike the Cold War or the War on Terror this plan hinges upon the Patriots having total control over both sides.
Which of course leads us to the next question. Since we can probably abandon any attempt to fill in the blanks between MPO and MG1, except to assume that perhaps Big Boss was working against someone rather than out of any megalomaniacal tendencies of his own, we are left wondering about the motivations of Liquid Ocelot and any possible air tight methods of control the Patriots may have over him (air tight in that there's no reason to assume they would fail to stop Liquid until they inexplicably fail to do so).
While it does disappoint me, as darkpen says, it does seem like whatever any original intentions may have been, Liquid and Ocelot becoming one person may end up a crucial plot point to MGS4 (that's why I used Ghostbusters as my example, it's excellent just the way it is but there is always that desire to know what might have been). So while we may guess at Liquid and Ocelot's loyalties, Liquid Ocelot remains an enigma. Perhaps both were committed to Big Boss and his ideals. After all, who's to say Liquid has been working toward a goal any different from Big Boss', whatever the hell he was trying to do.
pel1300
Member
Yoboman said:
Duh.
They will be made of nanomachines. You can count on it.
And Raiden will prob be mostly nanomachines in MGS4.
All the technology in MGS revolves around nanomachines.
But Kojima never explains exactly how the nanomachines work. He just says "ok so and so can do this because his ___ is made of nanomachines".
freethought
Member
Darkpen said:
See there's one problem with your reasoning here. It was Ocelot who made the claim. Ocelot, who had seen Cobra Unit in action, served alongside Psycho Mantis and Vulcan Raven, knew what Vamp was capable of and was continually being possessed by the 'spirit' of his dead boss. If he didn't have an explanation for Mantis' abilities then I don't think he would have made the claim in the first place.
Personally I always thought Fortune deflecting those missiles was indicative only of the Patriot's betrayal of Ocelot, that they had simply turned Fortune's EMP shield back on themselves. It's certainly the likeliest explanation. As far as scientific or technological reasoning behind all of the other crazy shit, maybe we'll get it MGS4. I can't say I'd be surprised if it did all turn out to be nanomachines but let's hope not.
Ether_Snake
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freethought said:
Yeah it's weird tho that Ocelot would say that, altho I think there is more to Vamp than meets the eye. As for Fortune's device, it's almost certain that The Patriots activated it. If they had no, Ocelot would have killed everyone and the true S3 exercise would have ended, but The Patriots themselves say the final part of the exercise is having Raiden and Solidus fight one another. You can see that Ocelot fired the missiles, and they are deflected, so he decides to use the Ray's water beam which could not be deflected, but right before he activates it Liquid takes over (and Liquid doesn't seem to want Snake to die).
freethought
Member
There's definitely more to Vamp than at first there appeared to be. My guess (and this is pure speculation based on bupkis) is that he's working as a guerrilla against the PMC's. Although he seemed to be fighting alongside the GEKKO's who knows if that was actually the case. My hope is that he has found some purpose of his own to keep fighting and it is Raiden who instigates their battle in an attempt to avenge E.E.. I can just imagine the scene, Snake ready to accept Vamp as an ally (probably after his first encounter with the Beasts) after seeing his true heart on the battlefield (or some such nonsense) with Raiden and Otacon unable to forgive or forget.
As far as any possible explanations for his abilities (precluding the notion that he's actually a vampire), is there even any point speculating? Genetic manipulation, advanced nanomachines or who knows what else. He does seem to have prosthetic legs now and compared Raiden's body to his own so some kind of internal cybernetics aren't out of the question.
I'm still hoping there are flashbacks to the big shell, scenes that we weren't privy to the first time. An obvious one would be Snake's confrontation with Fortune. I have a feeling that was an important scene. We could find out that they were behind the re-activation of her EM field. Plus we find out they weakened the handcuffs Snake was wearing. A friend of mine seemed to think they had been shot but I don't remember that at all.
As far as any possible explanations for his abilities (precluding the notion that he's actually a vampire), is there even any point speculating? Genetic manipulation, advanced nanomachines or who knows what else. He does seem to have prosthetic legs now and compared Raiden's body to his own so some kind of internal cybernetics aren't out of the question.
I'm still hoping there are flashbacks to the big shell, scenes that we weren't privy to the first time. An obvious one would be Snake's confrontation with Fortune. I have a feeling that was an important scene. We could find out that they were behind the re-activation of her EM field. Plus we find out they weakened the handcuffs Snake was wearing. A friend of mine seemed to think they had been shot but I don't remember that at all.
Ether_Snake
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I think Solidus deflected a bullet onto them, but I'm not sure, I don't recall.
The fallen Gekkous could have been destroyed by Vamp or Raiden, it's unclear, but we do see what appears to be Liquid-Ocelot's chopper above them early in the scene. I'm pretty sure Vamp has tagged along with Liquid anyway. He has no love for The Patriots that's for sure, after what happened in MGS2.
The fallen Gekkous could have been destroyed by Vamp or Raiden, it's unclear, but we do see what appears to be Liquid-Ocelot's chopper above them early in the scene. I'm pretty sure Vamp has tagged along with Liquid anyway. He has no love for The Patriots that's for sure, after what happened in MGS2.
freethought
Member
Ether_Snake said:
Yeah, I figured Vamp would be working against the Patriots, but I thought maybe he would be prescient enough to see through their plans. I hoped he would be operating as a Lone Wolf, determined to sabotage their plans whenever possible,in the end recasting him as a good guy. There was no reasoning or evidence behind it, I've just alway's really liked Vamp and love Metal Gear's redemption cut-scenes, although they're usually also death scenes I suppose.
Too bad on the handcuff front though, I haven't finished MGS2 in a long time. Last time I played on European Extreme and I'm not afraid to admit it, I couldn't get past the corridor battle just before you enter the hold (on the Tanker). Goddamn that was so hard. I literally shudder to think how hard the Vamp fight would have been, it felt like starting the Big Shell chapter before finishing the Tanker was cheating so I've never played it on European Extreme, but I had enough trouble with the Vamp fight on Extreme so I don't really mind.
He's never said "because his _____ is made of nanomachines." Nothing's made of nanomachines, people are just injected with them. You make nanomachines sound like some sort of base material.pel1300 said:
Here are some wikipedia quotes that basically summarize what they do in the MGS universe:
Callo Merlose
Banned
You know, it's not the first time an actor from a previous MGS game has returned to voice someone else in the sequel. The Chief of DAPRA went on to play Peter Stillman in MGS2 and Olga's seiyuu was the same woman who voiced Meryl.
Ether_Snake
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Darkpen said:
Sorry
But I forgot to add that
if Snake erases himself, his meme, his genes, and says some bloodlines must come to an end, it means that he will also erase Liquid. So basically, The Patriots will fall, and then so will Liquid-Ocelot (or he will erase himself as well, having achieve his goal in a way) and any traces of the snakes, which means this would truly be the end of the whole Big Boss/LET story-arc, everything would be erased and left to the future generations, right up for a new MG saga). The only one who would live on to remember Snake would be Raiden, he would be the one to pass the torch to the future generations. Unless he decides that he too should go.
And then he'll realize that ideas don't die, and will decide to live, but then die because FOX DIE ACTIVATED LOLZEther_Snake said:Sorry
But I forgot to add thatif Snake erases himself, his meme, his genes, and says some bloodlines must come to an end, it means that he will also erase Liquid. So basically, The Patriots will fall, and then so will Liquid-Ocelot (or he will erase himself as well, having achieve his goal in a way) and any traces of the snakes, which means this would truly be the end of the whole Big Boss/LET story-arc, everything would be erased and left to the future generations, right up for a new MG saga). The only one who would live on to remember Snake would be Raiden, he would be the one to pass the torch to the future generations. Unless he decides that he too should go.
WickedLaharl
Member
what on earth can i say that hasn't been said 500 - 600 times already? i guess i could say that they look fantastic? no no, lying is bad. kill it with fire!
Ether_Snake
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On MGSTUS someone noticed how each boss appears to have their own logos.
There's a mantis logo on Screaming Mantis' chest, same one seen on the vest of the PMCs in the E307 trailer.
There's a bird logo on Raven's shoulder.
A wolf logo on wolf.
And I can't see the one for Octopus, but probably an octopus
So either each is part of different PMCs, or the PMC we have all seen already is divided in different units.
Also Kojima said "Can these beauties ever return to their human form? Only when you play the game will you find out.", which implies there might be a possibility that they can, and if so then so could Raiden, which would finally make it possible for him to be the new main character in MGS5, because currently as a cyborg ninja it would just play too differently.
There's a mantis logo on Screaming Mantis' chest, same one seen on the vest of the PMCs in the E307 trailer.
There's a bird logo on Raven's shoulder.
A wolf logo on wolf.
And I can't see the one for Octopus, but probably an octopus
So either each is part of different PMCs, or the PMC we have all seen already is divided in different units.
Also Kojima said "Can these beauties ever return to their human form? Only when you play the game will you find out.", which implies there might be a possibility that they can, and if so then so could Raiden, which would finally make it possible for him to be the new main character in MGS5, because currently as a cyborg ninja it would just play too differently.
freethought
Member
Ether_Snake said:On MGSTUS someone noticed how each boss appears to have their own logos.
There's a mantis logo on Screaming Mantis' chest, same one seen on the vest of the PMCs in the E307 trailer.
There's a bird logo on Raven's shoulder.
A wolf logo on wolf.
And I can't see the one for Octopus, but probably an octopus
So either each is part of different PMCs, or the PMC we have all seen already is divided in different units.
Also Kojima said "Can these beauties ever return to their human form? Only when you play the game will you find out.", which implies there might be a possibility that they can, and if so then so could Raiden, which would finally make it possible for him to be the new main character in MGS5, because currently as a cyborg ninja it would just play too differently.
They could serve as command units over the various parts of the PMC army; with Wolf in control of the GEKKO's, Raven in charge of the UAV's, Mantis in charge of the SOP controlled soldiers and who knows what Octopus is in command of. Perhaps nautical units.
If by playing differently, you are referring to Raiden's encounter with the MGs and Vamp in previous trailers, then I fail to see this as a bad thing!Ether_Snake said:
J/k, I love the MGS gameplay as it is, and your posts are inspired. Make me want to go back and replay SoL properly
GC 2007 Kojima's Beauty and the Beast Presentation HD
too lazy to go through the thread to see if this has been posted.
too lazy to go through the thread to see if this has been posted.
WickedLaharl
Member
wtf thanks for the spoiler dick ;P
Ether_Snake said:They don't have ANY supernatural powers in the video.
The guy who gets levitated is attached to strings, you can see them. It's all technology. Like Ocelot said on Arsenal in MGS2
I believe are ethereal "strings", not physical cables or anything.
Sorta like the radiating "Mind Circles!" you see when a fantasy characters is using some psi power. (EG mantis in MGS2)Then again, maybe all those Speed Lines behind running cartoon characters are really there too! They shur do make ya run fast!
EDIT: Actually, after watching a new video with better sound, NOW I hear a clear metallic "twang!" when the string are cut! Point: Ether_Snake!
Never heard that before.
angelcage87
Member
i'm expecting a great background story for these new bosses,kojima always puts a greater effort on female characters,also lol at the comments on that space,especially to that gasthatsmells dude :lol
kassatsu said:
Oh god Kojima's English horrible. :lol
"Dese bosses are beasts. Yes! Monsters! WHAT? Can moonsters awppear in a mewitary like MGS? Monsters! What KIND of game is DIS? HALO? Gears o War?"
"But dese bosses aw not monsters, or aireins."
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
Never mock the man like that......EVER. Can't fault him for trying though. I understood everything the first time through. It was funny though.ZealousD said:
EDIT - Love his cookie monster/ape/Gilbert Godfrey? voice. Awesome.
EDIT 2 - LMAO I laugh harder the more I hear the beginning. Love it.