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Better Call Saul S3 |OT| Gus Who's Back - Mondays 10/9c on AMC

R

riotous

Banned
Letting someone die who you could easily have saved... this is a completely bright flashing neon light of a moral line to me. If you don't save the person, you are an immoral piece of shit.

Obviously actually going out of your way to push someone on their back is worse, but I don't think that scene is really some great example of the moral questions Breaking Bad had.

Of course in this very thread people argued that she basically deserved it because she blackmailed the guy who had stolen from her boyfriend.
 
M

MosquitoSmasher

Member
Just finished the finale of season 4. I had actually forgotten it wasn't Ricine after all, but that does make me wonder what happened to that cigarette and it especially makes me wonder how the Lily of the Valley got to Brock. I really forgot how all of that happened. But I will find out again soon enough.

It's really such a shame what is happening. The way Walt takes care of Gus and Salamanca is fantastic and with that he saves his and Jesse's life, just horrible when you think about what else Walt actually has done too. It just shows you that while there's still good in him, there really is more bad in him, really really bad. Surely there was another way to get Jesse's attention without resorting to such things?

I mean.... in the end what was it all good for? His plan for Salamanca and Gus to get there worked fine. That didn't require any poisoning of a child. Jesse could have been at the lab doing the cooking while Salamanca "talks" to the DEA and lures Gus to the nursing home. What purpose did it serve at all to poison Brock?
 
L

Lothar

Banned
MosquitoSmasher said:
Just finished the finale of season 4. I had actually forgotten it wasn't Ricine after all, but that does make me wonder what happened to that cigarette and it especially makes me wonder how the Lily of the Valley got to Brock. I really forgot how all of that happened. But I will find out again soon enough.

It's really such a shame what is happening. The way Walt takes care of Gus and Salamanca is fantastic and with that he saves his and Jesse's life, just horrible when you think about what else Walt actually has done too. It just shows you that while there's still good in him, there really is more bad in him, really really bad. Surely there was another way to get Jesse's attention without resorting to such things?

I mean.... in the end what was it all good for? His plan for Salamanca and Gus to get there worked fine. That didn't require any poisoning of a child. Jesse could have been at the lab doing the cooking while Salamanca "talks" to the DEA and lures Gus to the nursing home. What purpose did it serve at all to poison Brock?
Click to expand...

He couldn't have come up with that plan if Jesse hadn't told him the nature of their relationship. He had to get Jesse back on his side and wanting to kill Gus. Before that, he wasn't even willing to talk to Walt. Remember that Walt went to Jesse's house in Crawl Space and Jesse just shoved Walt off of his yard.

I recommend listening to the Breaking Bad podcasts. (For this episode and the ones after it)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykFf1awVy2Y&index=39&list=PLMSdCgP7y5qpAmDD4Ixn_okRxouZQF478

They talk about this in the very beginning. First 10 minutes. "He said to Jesse in the previous episode "Why would I do that? It makes no sense" Well it got them talking for one thing."
 
R

Rymuth

Member
I was doing a re-watch of Harvey Birdman and I just *now* realized that Micheal Mckean voices Spyro
latest


michael-mckean-59.4.jpg


"Flintstones, meet the Flintstones. They're the mobbish stone-age family, from the villa of Bedrock - they're a page right out of Godfather III. When we try Fred Flintstone, yes he'll do time. Oh yes, he'll do time. A lot of jail time."
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Holy crap XD ~ I'm never going to watch BCS the same way again.
 
D

DasFool

Member
The Emmy nominations for Better Call Saul's third season have been listed here. Those I found of note are:

- Outstanding Lead Actor - Bob Odenkirk as Jimmy McGill
- Outstanding Supporting Actor - Jonathan Banks as Mike Ehrmantraut
- Outstanding Writing - Chicanery (S3E5), written by Gordon Smith
- Outstanding Directing - Witness (S3E2), directed by Vince Gilligan

A real shame that Michael McKean did not receive any nominations. Chuck's character arc was riveting to watch unfold and the main reason I was looking forward to seeing BCS every Monday.
 
S

Socreges

Banned
DasFool said:
The Emmy nominations for Better Call Saul's third season have been listed here. Those I found of note are:

- Outstanding Lead Actor - Bob Odenkirk as Jimmy McGill
- Outstanding Supporting Actor - Jonathan Banks as Mike Ehrmantraut
- Outstanding Writing - Chicanery (S3E5), written by Gordon Smith
- Outstanding Directing - Witness (S3E2), directed by Vince Gilligan

A real shame that Michael McKean did not receive any nominations. Chuck's character arc was riveting to watch unfold and the main reason I was looking forward to seeing BCS every Monday.
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How the hell do Odenkirk and Banks get noms but not McKean? I normally don't care about award shows but McKean deserved recognition here.
 
M

Maengun1

Member
Yup, I was 100% confident that Banks would be nommed again and McKean snubbed...but I've still managed to get annoyed because McKean was just so damn good.

That's the way awards voting has always worked though. The consensus emerged in season 1 that Banks was the one who got this nomination for this show and that was just the end of it. It takes something really huge for noms to change mid-show, most things only change when a show ends and they pick a new show to slot in for the next 5 years. I doubt even 10% of the voters watched the entire season (or any of the other shows).
 
C

CassSept

Member
Jesus Christ, that season came at exactly the worst time for me but finally I've got time to catch up (thank god it's a netflix show in Europe) and I just finished Chicanery and oh my what a fantastic episode that was. It started well enough, but the entire hearing I was on the edge of my seat, tremendous television.
 
?

____

Member
CassSept said:
Jesus Christ, that season came at exactly the worst time for me but finally I've got time to catch up (thank god it's a netflix show in Europe) and I just finished Chicanery and oh my what a fantastic episode that was. It started well enough, but the entire hearing I was on the edge of my seat, tremendous television.
Click to expand...

You just wait...
 
C

Cornballer

Member
A couple quick Odenkirk quotes via Deadline:
With Chuck’s death at the end of Season 3, Odenkirk is asked has Jimmy officially broken bad? “I think it’s some huge cracks in the ice right now—huge, visible cracks that go real deep,” Odenkirk says, teasing what’s to come in Season 4. “As far as the whole glacier splitting in two, that’s coming very soon,” he told Deadline after receiving his latest lead actor Emmy nom.

He also expressed sadness at Chuck’s dramatic exit from the series in the Season 3 finale, as well as Michael McKean’s acting snub this season. “It was the second biggest blow to my joy. “It seriously bummed me out,” he says of Chuck’s departure. “That, and my character becoming more evil. But having Chuck exit our show is a big bummer because Michael’s the best actor, he raised everyone’s game and he’s just a joy to be around. As happy as I am about getting nominated myself, I just can’t believe Michael’s name isn’t in that list.”
Click to expand...
 
H

HardRojo

Member
Just catching up on the last 3 episodes, still got to watch the Season Finale, but I can't right now because I'm in finals and I gotta study. Fucking hell Jimmy, what you did to Irene was cruel and really low, that was hard to watch.
That "GALe" picture from Madrigal was pretty cool, didn't notice it at first. Well, hopefully I'll be able to watch the Finale later tonight. Am I going to be taken for a ride?
 
H

HP_Wuvcraft

Banned
I sort of understand their decision.

Giving the Emmy to a guy that played a mentally ill man that chose to kill himself would have looked like a parody of giving the Emmy to the abled guy playing disabled.
 
U

UrbanRats

Member
HP_Wuvcraft said:
I sort of understand their decision.

Giving the Emmy to a guy that played a mentally ill man that chose to kill himself would have looked like a parody of giving the Emmy to the abled guy playing disabled.
Click to expand...

That makes no sense.
Chuck is a character with depth and nuance, if you reduce it to those terms, it's your problem, and shouldn't even be giving out awards for art, because clearly you don't understand how it works (not talking about you personally, but i doubt that's the reasoning).
 
A

Aureon

Please do not let me serve on a jury. I am actually a crazy person.
HP_Wuvcraft said:
I sort of understand their decision.

Giving the Emmy to a guy that played a mentally ill man that chose to kill himself would have looked like a parody of giving the Emmy to the abled guy playing disabled.
Click to expand...

There's absolutely no shame or guilt in playing disabled characters.
 
F

Fuu

Formerly Alaluef (not Aladuf)
Yeah, I can't agree on any level with Banks instead of McKean for this season. Good to see Odenkirk calling it out.
 
H

Human Trashcan

Banned
since this is now the BB rewatch thread, holy FUCK do I hate Walt in season 5. He's so fucking loathsome, I want to strangle him. I just finished episode 7 where he kills Mike, and screws Jesse out of his money while attempting to manipulate him into staying in the business anyway in the most condescending way possible. Meanwhile he's forcing himself on Skyler the entire time, who clearly also rightly loathes and fears him. He's just such an incredibly selfish piece of shit, now that he's really convinced he's hot shit and has dropped all pretense of giving a shit about his family all his worst traits are amped up to 11 and there is nothing likeable there anymore. Really great job by everyone from Cranston to the writers to the directors. Anyone who still likes and/or idolizes Walt after season 5 is frankly a moral moron. If you see yourself in this person I don't want to know you.
 
?

____

Member
Human Trashcan said:
since this is now the BB rewatch thread, holy FUCK do I hate Walt in season 5. He's so fucking loathsome, I want to strangle him. I just finished episode 7 where he kills Mike, and screws Jesse out of his money while attempting to manipulate him into staying in the business anyway in the most condescending way possible. Meanwhile he's forcing himself on Skyler the entire time, who clearly also rightly loathes and fears him. He's just such an incredibly selfish piece of shit, now that he's really convinced he's hot shit and has dropped all pretense of giving a shit about his family all his worst traits are amped up to 11 and there is nothing likeable there anymore. Really great job by everyone from Cranston to the writers to the directors. Anyone who still likes and/or idolizes Walt after season 5 is frankly a moral moron. If you see yourself in this person I don't want to know you.
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Yeah...I mean...I didn't mind Walt at all (like...at ALL) during the first watch. On subsequent watches, I'm like....YOOOOO IS THIS MF FOR REAL? Unbelievable how much I gave him the benefit of the doubt. On rewatches, his character is a piece of shit pretty much from day 1.
 
D

Draper

Member
Brian Griffin said:
I think it's one of the best car crashes I've ever seen on screen. The fact that it doesn't actually show the crash at all is something I've never seen before. It really puts the viewer right in there with Kim.
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They totally allude to it when they show her napping in her car with the same style of cut.


Sorry, I just finished the season :p
 
Ultimadrago

Ultimadrago

Member
Reposting my impressions from a different community thread (revised a bit):

I recently decided to check out all three seasons of Better Call Saul and am enjoying it. I don't find it quite as engaging as Breaking Bad, but it's rather aware that it has its own story to tell. It handles the storytelling fairly well and still has some great cinematography to carry the delivery home.

Best part about Better Call Saul is that one of my favorites from Breaking Bad, Mike, returns with his own story thread and backstory details. At first I thought it would be a mere cameo, but giving that badass their own major role throughout the seasons has been great. Jonathan Banks still kills that role. Reliving his deadpan reactions, gut calls and observations have generally contained the highest emotional peaks I've gotten from any of the seasons (while Chicanery's trial is up there).

In Season 3, I also found it odd that I found myself rooting for Howard. Runner's intent really had me taking Howard, who I thought was only a shit-eating grin sociopath (as is common among live-action executives), to a partner that was always put in a tight spot with little wiggle room by mid 3rd season.
 
Yoshichan

Yoshichan

And they made him a Lord of Cinder. Not for virtue, but for might. Such is a lord, I suppose. But here I ask. Do we have a sodding chance?
binged it all... reached the ending... shook... crying right now like a baby...

holy fucking shit... s4 renewed right?
 
S

shockthrill

Banned
Can we all agree that Vince Gillgian is the GOAT storyteller in TV history

the only ones that I can see that can compare to him are David Chase (Sopranos) and David Simon (The Wire)

Vince seems to have a rare ability to capture the subtleties of storytelling that many show runners lack, obviously he didn't get his success all by himself, he had a highly competent team with him.

Noah Hawley is very good as well, but i think Vince is the master

grantland_g_gilligan_576.jpg
 
H

Human Trashcan

Banned
Fuu said:
What's wrong with BB's finale in your opinion? I thought it was good. Maybe a little by the numbers, but I don't see what's terrible about it.
Click to expand...

Oh it's well made, sure, the whole show is. I just don't like how it wrapped the show up at all. Walt gets to beat the Nazis, who were introduced for the sole reason of making it still morally justifiable to root for Walt, after the first half of season 5 did such a great job of showing what a terrible person he had become. Everything goes right. Walt gets "revenge" on Gretchen and Elliott (who had done nothing wrong), he gets his money to his family who doesn't want it, he builds a fucking turret in the trunk of his car that works perfectly and kills all the nazis (which stretches credulity even by this show's standard's of Walt's insane luck). The list goes on. It's too pat, flat, and neat. It really doesn't have anything to say. It's cathartic as fuck to watch Jesse strangle Todd, and I liked the scene with Walt and Skyler where he finally just admits he did what he did because he liked it and was good at it. But as a closing statement it rang incredibly hollow. It's one of the most disappointing finales of any of the Great Shows to me, especially because I think seasons 4 and 5 are pretty incredible overall. But the introduction of the Nazis to begin with was a mistake, I think the big showdown should have been Walt vs Hank, because that was actually 10x as dramatically interesting since the audience is invested in both Walt and Hank as characters, whereas the nazis generate nothing but contempt. That makes for decent entertainment, but weak art.

That went a bit long but there you have it!
 
F

Fuu

Formerly Alaluef (not Aladuf)
Ah yeah, gotcha. I didn't feel as strongly about the shortcomings, but I do agree that parts of it felt a little hollow when you look at it in a sense that's beyond just "entertaining TV".
 
C

crisdecuba

Member
Human Trashcan said:
Oh it's well made, sure, the whole show is. I just don't like how it wrapped the show up at all. Walt gets to beat the Nazis, who were introduced for the sole reason of making it still morally justifiable to root for Walt, after the first half of season 5 did such a great job of showing what a terrible person he had become. Everything goes right. Walt gets "revenge" on Gretchen and Elliott (who had done nothing wrong), he gets his money to his family who doesn't want it, he builds a fucking turret in the trunk of his car that works perfectly and kills all the nazis (which stretches credulity even by this show's standard's of Walt's insane luck). The list goes on. It's too pat, flat, and neat. It really doesn't have anything to say. It's cathartic as fuck to watch Jesse strangle Todd, and I liked the scene with Walt and Skyler where he finally just admits he did what he did because he liked it and was good at it. But as a closing statement it rang incredibly hollow. It's one of the most disappointing finales of any of the Great Shows to me, especially because I think seasons 4 and 5 are pretty incredible overall. But the introduction of the Nazis to begin with was a mistake, I think the big showdown should have been Walt vs Hank, because that was actually 10x as dramatically interesting since the audience is invested in both Walt and Hank as characters, whereas the nazis generate nothing but contempt. That makes for decent entertainment, but weak art.

That went a bit long but there you have it!
Click to expand...
Yeah I definitely agree to a certain extent. I blame the finale on the dumb move of writing in the turret / machine gun without any idea of how it would pay off or play out. Sometimes you write yourself into a corner and you figure out a good and interesting way out - other times you end up with something underwhelming. I sometimes day dream that there's an alternate universe where they didn't write that gun in.
 
I

Ignatz Mouse

Banned
The turret was another example of "crazy idea goes right" that happened a lot in BB. See also giant magnet, poisoning Brock, etc. I wouldn't have minded if it weren't the final episode.

Thematically, Ozymandias is a much, much better end to the show. For all his scheming and rationalizations, Walt just outright loses. If we needed a cathartic wrap-up where things went happy for at least a few people, I'd rather it have been less perfectly-orchestrated and more simple.

That said, I enjoyed it immensely at the time.
 
H

Human Trashcan

Banned
crisdecuba said:
Yeah I definitely agree to a certain extent. I blame the finale on the dumb move of writing in the turret / machine gun without any idea of how it would pay off or play out. Sometimes you write yourself into a corner and you figure out a good and interesting way out - other times you end up with something underwhelming. I sometimes day dream that there's an alternate universe where they didn't write that gun in.
Click to expand...

Yeah I think that's a big part of it. It's almost like Ozymandias is the actual finale and then they were like "oh right shit that gun, we fucked ourselves there huh" and then they tacked on Felina. Really kind of baffling that they wrote a scene explicitly foreshadowing something... without actually knowing WHAT it's foreshadowing.
 
C

crisdecuba

Member
Human Trashcan said:
Yeah I think that's a big part of it. It's almost like Ozymandias is the actual finale and then they were like "oh right shit that gun, we fucked ourselves there huh" and then they tacked on Felina. Really kind of baffling that they wrote a scene explicitly foreshadowing something... without actually knowing WHAT it's foreshadowing.
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Baffling is exactly right. They could have just eliminated that scene altogether and gone right into the main plot... sigh...
 
U

UrbanRats

Member
Aside from the gun thing, Felina wasn't a bad conclusion.
Especially for characters outside of Walt.

Jesse gets a lot of pain coming to him, after Ozymandias, and i think it's integral to the arc of his character, Walt's family, too,
 
H

Human Trashcan

Banned
The finale was completely uninterested in anyone that wasn't Walt, which is another problem I have with it. I'm actually not sure what you're trying to say.
 
C

Cornballer

Member
- Via Warming Glow an interesting Gilligan interview from Australia

A few tidbits:
"When we first said to them we wanted to spin off one of the lesser characters their first thought was, 'Jesse Pinkman? He'd be fantastic'," Gilligan says.

But when he and co-creator Peter Gould told them, no, they weren't thinking of a show about Walt's young and possibly reformed drug-dealing partner (played by Aaron Paul), but instead Saul, they got a slightly different response. "Oh, OK. We guess that'll work."

Sceptical though they might have been, "they kinda took the leap with us, and we're so glad they did, because the show has taken turns story-wise that we would never have guessed at in those early days".

The original idea, he says, was for “a straight-out half-hour comedy. Maybe it’ll be Saul sitting in his office in front of the American Constitution on his wall and the Styrofoam columns on either side [a staple scenario in Breaking Bad]. And interesting, quirky people will show up every week with legal problems and he’ll solve them. That was the original pitch.”
Click to expand...
So what about repeating the trick? When Saul – or Gene – inevitably reaches his endpoint, what chance of another spin-off, and who would it be about?

"I gotta tell you," he says, chuckling at the prospect. "Kim Wexler."

Jimmy's legal offsider and sometime girlfriend is played by Rhea Seehorn, whom Gilligan says is "the find" of the series. "She can be hilariously funny, she can be absolutely moving. She can do anything, she just has this astounding range.

"Personally, as one of the first two fans of Better Call Saul, I want to know more about Kim, I want to see and learn more about her.

"If we were to do another spin-off it would be the Kim Wexler show."
Click to expand...
More via the link.
 
?

____

Member
At the moment I couldn't see Kim having her own story as very interesting just based off of how straight-arrow she plays it 99% of the time, but I can't say I wouldn't watch. They'd find a way to make this interesting.

But honestly speaking, they could probably knock it out of the park with any of the characters we've seen.
 
M

Mindlog

Member
I thought there was a good chance Saul would ruin BB's legacy. What the fuck do I know? Do whatever the hell you want. I'm onboard.

Very happy to admit how wrong my initial feelings were in regards to this show.
 
B

big ander

Member
I can't decide whether I'd like to see her post-Saul or pre-Saul. Though I guess they've shown her around the law offices decently far back in flashbacks so having Seehorn now play a kim even younger than that might not add up.
 
C

crisdecuba

Member
big ander said:
I can't decide whether I'd like to see her post-Saul or pre-Saul. Though I guess they've shown her around the law offices decently far back in flashbacks so having Seehorn now play a kim even younger than that might not add up.
Click to expand...
I would very much enjoy a post-Saul law series along the lines of The Good Wife.
 
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