Well, than it's just wishful / fearful thinking.
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Keighley: Epic says UE4 not targeted at Wii U on GTTV, Epic responds [Updated Again]
- Thread starter Nirolak
- Start date
Horse Armour
Member
Huh? PS3 and 360 have loads of Cryengine 3 games.
"Based on nothing" isn't a reason. Anyway this is a farce so I'm finished with this "discussion" unless your next post moves things along.
Horse Armour
Member
Also, why are people expecting devs to be able to talk about Wii U specs post E3? I thought Nintendo never release their specs so I'd assume that nothing would change post E3.
Thanks for the title change.
From the very beginning I think the tweet's been misinterpreted. 'No' was in response to whether he's allowed to hint at it supporting the Wii U, the rest was an elaboration on what we knew 'at the time', a time of which a lot has changed since.
Also, it's important to again stress that this is colossal news and there is no reason for G.K to be randomly expressing it through a tweet. Especially with the N.D.A's being so prevalent.
From the very beginning I think the tweet's been misinterpreted. 'No' was in response to whether he's allowed to hint at it supporting the Wii U, the rest was an elaboration on what we knew 'at the time', a time of which a lot has changed since.
Also, it's important to again stress that this is colossal news and there is no reason for G.K to be randomly expressing it through a tweet. Especially with the N.D.A's being so prevalent.
DICKS AHOY
Banned
Did a quick google search and wow you're right. Kind of assumed it was some new engine still in development since people kept bringing its Wii U support up in these kinds of threads and Crytek are still showing off new video features on it now and then.
Well then.
TheLastCandle
Member
All I want to see are the games at this point. Couldn't care any less for the tech circle jerk anymore.
Bring on next week.
Bring on next week.
why the polarity all the time? Maybe thats just forums, but it is tiresome.
So the Wii did well by being cheap - but it also had waggle, so there is no way to prove that price was the deciding factor at all.
So the PS3 was expensive - doesn't mean the next ones will be $599, it was expensive for a bunch of other reasons.
I see nothing that makes MS/Sony shy away from a 'normal' pricing on their consoles. The only thing that might affect power would be if some of the budget is spent on things like kinect or move bundled as standard.
So the Wii did well by being cheap - but it also had waggle, so there is no way to prove that price was the deciding factor at all.
So the PS3 was expensive - doesn't mean the next ones will be $599, it was expensive for a bunch of other reasons.
I see nothing that makes MS/Sony shy away from a 'normal' pricing on their consoles. The only thing that might affect power would be if some of the budget is spent on things like kinect or move bundled as standard.
Wii was way more underpowered than the WiiU will be compared to upcoming plattforms and people expected it to fail from the beginning. Epic already had already finished Gears of War development by the time Wii was released, so it wasnt an option anymore.
WiiU will probably get most big 3rd Party titles of this gen at launch and build on that foundation - cant really compare it to the Wii.
Refreshment.01
Member
Of course man, but it's just semantics, and we should as reasonable people, take the honey out of the wax. If Reign said in the here and now that WiiU supports UE4, most likely this would have become a badge of honor to proudly exhibit by partisans as of "how powerful my system is." When down to earth people would know it won't be supported fully in this console.
Yes, this could guarantee WiiU could get a port but when it doesn't exploit the capacities of the engine fully then the excitement is toned down. Then again the possibility remains that games that take advantages of the most advanced capabilities might not be worth to down port.
It's really simple, at E3 2011 we got a form factor and an emphasis on a feature rich controller. Put 2 + 2 and you knew by intuition alone in what level the console will rest.
These engines take time to get some traction, some times familiarity is more important than actual capabilities so when the time comes to migrate to more advanced stuff there's a good posibility devs will opt for UE4.
Yeah I wouldn't expect much direct talk about specs from devs even after E3. But we'll probably get a leak for the final system soon after, I certainly hope so anyway.
While I think you're probably largely correct, I do suspect that the gap before 'the time comes to migrate' will be longer than usual; significantly so.
Always-honest
Banned
I'm sure there will run something UE4 related on Wii-U.
Maybe not the full, all bells and whistles version, but still...
Maybe not the full, all bells and whistles version, but still...
Isn't Nintendo having a round table with their hardware guy next Tuesday?
radioheadrule83
Banned
Blu-ray will be cheaper, but a significantly more powerful CPU is going to come at a cost, as is a robust GPU - if they go for something based off one of the newer 28nm cards. Power draw and cooling is something they'll have to weigh, and if they want to get a good load of high performance RAM in there, they might have to explore unorthodox solutions too. There is a very real possibility that a high performance machine designed to last another 5/6 years will be either very large or prohibitively expensive imo. As you say, any pressure to include peripherals or control options is going to be a cost burden too, so getting it right will be a delicate balancing act.
Father_Brain
Banned
The thing is, Western third-party support is far more relevant on consoles than on handhelds. More so on Wii U, since it's Nintendo that's set winning back the core market as one of its main goals for the system.
AndyMoogle
Member
He'll most likely talk about the controller and how they managed to get the streaming working properly without lag and so on. I doubt he'll go into detail about all the specs of the console.
same for me with pikmin.
I'm hoping that with the uptick in power, Nintendo will be able to push again with new things that'll blow us away. That was very difficult with the Wii, so perhaps they took the simpler route of sequels and licks of paint on IPs and adding waggle.
It's very good analogy. Windows 7 on win 98 hardware would work bad. New features wouldn't work at all or would work veery slow.
And yes if UE4 will feature many things done in real time then Yes, Ps3 power level won't be sufficient.
UE4 has many features that can lower production cost, real time is a lot cheaper and faster than baked. In summary game can look better and be cheaper.
I've never understood why people can simultaneously decry the huge increase in development costs and rationalisation of the industry into about three or four publishers as well as calling for huge power increases and $500 consoles.
Did everyone just fall asleep for the last five years? I'm not just talking about forum goers, but the remaining developers, too. A huge amount of devs were wiped out due to rising budgets and the black hole that created in the mid-tier marketplace.
Why is everyone still encouraging that environment?
Did everyone just fall asleep for the last five years? I'm not just talking about forum goers, but the remaining developers, too. A huge amount of devs were wiped out due to rising budgets and the black hole that created in the mid-tier marketplace.
Why is everyone still encouraging that environment?
Because shiney.
iamshadowlark
Banned
Power increases don't necessarily equal raised budgets.
Because everybody wants to see the industry burn
Yeah I forgot about that, I hope we get some good info from it. But I'd expect it to be about the architecture of the system and why it was chosen rather then going into detail on specs such as number of ALU's/bandwidth ect.
Well, sure, not necessarily. But for the entire history of the video game industry for the last 30 years, that's exactly what it's meant.
I don't know, I would think that people there would want them to talk about the hardware itself and I would even imagine they would figure people would ask or want to know. I guess we'll see, but if we get a chance to ask questions, I'll definitely ask for more details. Heh, heh.
Horse Armour
Member
UE4 lowers dev costs.
If you like Nintendo first party games, I expect there will be games from them that you'll want to play at launch or soon afterwards.
If you don't like Nintendo first party games, I don't see anyone buying a WiiU as a 12 month stop gap to play slightly better 3rd party multiplatform games until the PS4/720 comes out. You'll just wait.
The real question is whether that first group (that are buying it for Nintendo games) will buy any 3rd party games. Presumably most early adopters will already have a PS3 or 360, and then stickiness of online services comes into play.
Horse Armour
Member
It's just strange to see people in this thread going 'wait for E3' when nothing will probably change what we know about the Wii U hardware wise except that we may get some screens/vids of Wii U multiplatform games which even if they look better or worse than their PS3/360 versions, don't necessarily definitely tell us about the power of the system.
iamshadowlark
Banned
Well I think this gen both PSN and XBLA have shown that its possible to put out quality titles on a more limited DD storefront and have success. And you also have things coming up like PlayStation suite.
The indie developer and small/medium budget game scene has never been as good as it is now and I expect it to continue growing. You don't have to keep on trying to make AAA games.
Father_Brain
Banned
If you take everything Epic says at face value, sure.
It's quite possible that the increase in budgets will be smaller than what happened last gen, but the general history of game development, as far as I can tell, is that the demand for more higher-quality assets on new hardware has always outweighed whatever efficiency improvements said hardware makes possible. I find it hard to believe that next-gen titles will be the first-ever exception to this.
...and it's not clear yet whether two out of three next-gen consoles will be even able to run UE4 at a high enough level to support the fully realtime lighting that seems to be the main budget-saver for the engine. The vast majority of UE4 developers will have to target PS4 nonetheless.
Isn't UE4 supposed to tackle exactly that?
If you go that way count also infation.
I don't know why games are 60$ now as 10 years ago.
Same as 599 argument.
599 was a lot to me in 2007 but now it don't sound so bad.
That's been their clarion call, certainly, but I'd like to hear a third party with experience using it say that it's had that effect for them, not Epic themselves.
He was referring to the cost of making a game, not buying one.
Well, part of the problem is that little from Japan's naturally appealed to a Western audience, though we DO have some that still do, namely Resident Evil. But I think the days of doing that are mostly gone, they'll either try too hard or just make something VERY Japan focused.
Still, if something like the NES/SNES/PS1 could be replicated again, there can be enough Japanese third party IPs to keep interest around.
specialguy
Banned
I like how this is a raging 15 page thread and now we're getting "updates" on the situation.
All because you know, all the graphics will be pretty much the same next gen.
All because you know, all the graphics will be pretty much the same next gen.
Father_Brain
Banned
You will never, ever see Japanese third parties dominating consoles - any console - in the West like they did in past generations. The markets and development cultures have just diverged far too much.
Haunted
Member
And because middleware devs seem to have learned, Epic and Crytek are doing all in their power to ease development with their tools, keeping development costs down.
As Carmack said a while back, in the future they'll basically put as much effort into optimising their asset production and pipelines as they put into the games itself.
No choice but to wait for announcements so developers can finally comment about the new development processes then.
This. Epic is just interested in selling their middleware, so any claim about it coming from them is just plain old advertisement to be taken with a grain of salt. If UE4 ends up raising costs even more, you can be sure there will be a great amount of devs going "fuck this shit" and sticking to something else while trying to build the middle ground market again.
Hot Coldman
Banned
Epic would love to develop for Nintendo, given that it ultimately means more money for them, but they have pretty much zero influence over Nintendo. Whether or not UE4 ends up on Wii U is pretty much coincidence. Nintendo will do their thing, Epic will do theirs, and maybe they'll cross paths. Maybe not.
Crazy thread! This isn't new news guys. When I interviewed Mike Capps at GDC for GTTV, I asked him on camera about whether UE4 was targeted for Wii-U, and he said that no, UE3 is more in line with Wii-U(or something like that). That's all I was referencing in the @ reply.
mdtauk
Member
There will be an initial cost to replacing UE3 with 4 and its new tools. A learning curve to the new features.
As the resolutions will not be increasing this time around (except for Nintendo) the quality jump needed for the art assets will not provide a significant jump in dev costs, but these are still quite high for many devs/publishers.
I can foresee a time when the larger games become more collaborative, or to put it fairly - Asset creation will be outsourced. Just like how animations are mostly animated in Korea etc, with the scenario and dialogue writing and pre-production, as well as the coding and finishing is done by the developers.
This can provide work for smaller teams, quicken the pace of development cycles, and distribute costs. But it does open the possibility of people being exploited. This is an issue currently happening in the industry, if we look at how EA staff are treated, and Team Bondi.
Budgets are one concern, a de-moralised and stymied creative work force, is something to be concerned about going forward!
Well, I wouldn't stress too much on "never", but I do imagine at most it's just going to be a few killer IP like RE and MGS, and those are going to be found elsewhere anyway.
"Targeted" and "able to run on" are two different things.
Certainly Wii U isn't going to be the optimal platform for UE4 but that doesn't mean they can't get a version of it running on the console.
Father_Brain
Banned
What Mike Capps interview? If accurate, this is news, because it certainly wasn't aired at the time.
Damn someone predicted this one to a T. Not me but I saw at least two posters calling this post right here.
