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Wii U has 2GB of DDR3 RAM, [Up: RAM 43% slower than 360/PS3 RAM]

Osiris

I permanently banned my 6 year old daughter from using the PS4 for mistakenly sending grief reports as it's too hard to watch or talk to her
That post doesn't contradict the other one at all though. He says lazy ports will suck, and of course they have, and he's looking forward to seeing the dedicated ground up games, from the 'little beast'. But he also said the little beast will be on par with PS360 in the other post. I take that to mean he is looking forward to seeing the Halo 4's and God of War's of the Wii U, not that he expects anything notably beyond the realm of the HD Twins.

I think everyone expects that at this point though.


Pretty much how I read it too.
 

Gahiggidy

My aunt & uncle run a Mom & Pop store, "The Gamecube Hut", and sold 80k WiiU within minutes of opening.
GAF probably told him he was wrong.




Not necessarily. Intel is pushing to make DDR4 (or pushed) to make it ultra power efficient.
Is it cheaper? (Just trying to understand the rationale for the choice).


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Call me a dead-ender, but I'm sticking with my belief that Wii U will be closer the performance of PS4 than to PS3. Its custom machine released in the year 2012, for crying out loud.
 

teh_pwn

"Saturated fat causes heart disease as much as Brawndo is what plants crave."
If Nintendo is selling at a loss:
A. They're lying.
B. They're putting a bunch of first time R&D/Marketing cost in the release manufacturing cost.
C. They are getting screwed by vendors.
D. They're completely incompetent.

I mean just look at that board. It's mostly silicon. It's using parts that are off the shelf dirt cheap.

Is it cheaper? (Just trying to understand the rationale for the choice).

It's new, so probably not. My point is that faster does not necessarily mean more power consuming.

I mean the reason why Wii U looks to use so little power compared to 360 is because it's about the same horsepower but with 4 years newer tech (die shrinks and other optimizations).

It's not some amazing achievement. I could build a PC next year that uses 1/3 the power of my current rig without bumping performance.
 

Osiris

I permanently banned my 6 year old daughter from using the PS4 for mistakenly sending grief reports as it's too hard to watch or talk to her
Is it cheaper? (Just trying to understand the rationale for the choice).


----

Call me a dead-ender, but I'm sticking with my belief that Wii U will be closer the performance of PS4 than to PS3. Its custom machine released in the year 2012, for crying out loud.

Not a dead-ender, more of a Deadmeat with that kind of prediction, sorry :p
 

Combichristoffersen

Combovers don't work when there is no hair
Is it cheaper? (Just trying to understand the rationale for the choice).


----

Call me a dead-ender, but I'm sticking with my belief that Wii U will be closer the performance of PS4 than to PS3. Its custom machine released in the year 2012, for crying out loud.

Cheaper, uses less electricity and generates less heat. The last one is important considering the Wii U is, AFAIK, a relatively small console.

And there's no way the Wii U will be closer to the PS4 than the PS3.
 
That post doesn't contradict the other one at all though. He says lazy ports will suck, and of course they have, and he's looking forward to seeing the dedicated ground up games, from the 'little beast'. But he also said the little beast will be on par with PS360 in the other post. I take that to mean he is looking forward to seeing the Halo 4's and God of War's of the Wii U, not that he expects anything notably beyond the realm of the HD Twins.

I think everyone expects that at this point though.

In between the two posts, various dev kits software updates were released, increasing performance. His opinion of the console evolved along side the gradually improving development kits. Makes sense, no? Who knows what it'll be doing a few years down the road, but I wouldn't be getting any out of this world ideas and I really don't think anyone expects 720/orbis like performances ;)
 
Is it cheaper? (Just trying to understand the rationale for the choice).


----

Call me a dead-ender, but I'm sticking with my belief that Wii U will be closer the performance of PS4 than to PS3. Its custom machine released in the year 2012, for crying out loud.

Even though everything from every developer points to the opposite? And you forget the Wii was released in 2006? Although in the end more production will probably be gotten from the Wii U and than Wii.

I really don't think anyone expects 720/orbis like performances ;)

Look at the post I just quoted.
 

Diablos54

Member
If Nintendo is selling at a loss:
A. They're lying.
B. They're putting a but of first time R&D/Marketing cost in the release manufacturing cost.
C. They are getting screwed by vendors.
D. They're completely incompetent.

I mean just look at that board. It's mostly silicon. It's using parts that are off the shelf dirt cheap.
Or E. None of the above, which is what it is. Maybe the combination of the pad and the console plus the low price is why they're selling it at a loss.
 

teh_pwn

"Saturated fat causes heart disease as much as Brawndo is what plants crave."
Or E. None of the above, which is what it is. Maybe the combination of the pad and the console plus the low price is why they're selling it at a loss.

Well if the pad is really that expensive, then their business strategy is bonkers. Wii U Mario Kart for 4 players...only $650.

The console itself is probably $100 in COGS.
 
If Nintendo is selling at a loss:
A. They're lying.
B. They're putting a bunch of first time R&D/Marketing cost in the release manufacturing cost.
C. They are getting screwed by vendors.
D. They're completely incompetent.

I mean just look at that board. It's mostly silicon. It's using parts that are off the shelf dirt cheap.

Really, do tell us how much each console cost to build including the manufacturing in China, shipping all over the world, storage, and every part of the Gamepad including the exchange rates to different countries.

Wii U Mario Kart for 4 players...only $650.

There are many people being reasonable in this thread, so stop with the hysterics. First of all more than 2 gamepads won't be supported, and 2nd of all multiplayer for Mario Kart will have access to every other controller.
 

StuBurns

Banned
In between the two posts, various dev kits software updates were released, increasing performance. His opinion of the console evolved along side the gradually improving development kits. Makes sense, no? Who knows what it'll be doing a few years down the road, but I wouldn't be getting any out of this world ideas and I really don't think anyone expects 720/orbis like performances ;)
Oh, well I should say, I've literally only read those two, if there were many in the interim suggesting a notable change of heart, then sure.

Although at this point, this board at least, seems to be under the impression it is merely on par with PS360. I'm not sure we'll ever really know though, it's seven years on, and we're still debating if the PS3 or the 360 is more powerful, I don't expect anything definitive out of the Wii U comparisons, ever.

Personally I'm not that bothered, if Zelda matches the tech demo, I'll bust a nut, regardless of any factual comparison.
 

Gahiggidy

My aunt & uncle run a Mom & Pop store, "The Gamecube Hut", and sold 80k WiiU within minutes of opening.
Even though everything from every developer points to the opposite? And you forget the Wii was released in 2006? Although in the end more production will probably be gotten from the Wii U and than Wii.



Look at the post I just quoted.

What developer has said on the record that Wii U will be closer to the PS3 generation than the 2013 boxes? Anyways, Iwata himself said back at E3 that Wii U's tech is beyond that of the PS3/360 generation.
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
I refuse to give up hope until I see a big budget Nintendo first party game made from the ground up for the system. You ought to have plenty of performance from a machine that costs $300+ to manufacture.

Oh I'm sure well see some impressive games from Nintendo. I thought galaxy was amazing considering what else was on Wii at the time.

But if you buy a wiiU for Nintendo games, then that should be a given, right? The big concern is how many third party developers will have the time or money to properly optimise for wiiU?
 

wsippel

Banned
If Nintendo is selling at a loss:
A. They're lying.
B. They're putting a bunch of first time R&D/Marketing cost in the release manufacturing cost.
C. They are getting screwed by vendors.
D. They're completely incompetent.

I mean just look at that board. It's mostly silicon. It's using parts that are off the shelf dirt cheap.
No, they're not lying, they're not counting R&D, they're too long in the business to get screwed and they've proven time and time again that they might be kinda insane, but certainly not incompetent.
 
If Nintendo is selling at a loss:
A. They're lying.
B. They're putting a bunch of first time R&D/Marketing cost in the release manufacturing cost.
C. They are getting screwed by vendors.
D. They're completely incompetent.

I mean just look at that board. It's mostly silicon. It's using parts that are off the shelf dirt cheap.



It's new, so probably not. My point is that faster does not necessarily mean more power consuming.

I mean the reason why Wii U looks to use so little power compared to 360 is because it's about the same horsepower but with 4 years newer tech (die shrinks and other optimizations).

It's not some amazing achievement. I could build a PC next year that uses 1/3 the power of my current rig without bumping performance.
I actually believe they ARE using highly customized parts and are selling it at a loss. That is a part of bad decision making though. They took a pretty middle-aged GPU, and threw a bunch of parts in it to make it backwards compatible. Basically what they did was take a Wii and supercharge it. Literally. The most expensive parts are indeed custom made, but it's my belief that there were better choices they could've made and still kept it low-power.

The plus side is that the prices on these parts will drop very past if demand is brisk.
 
What developer has said on the record that Wii U will be closer to the PS3 generation than the 2013 boxes? Anyways, Iwata himself said back at E3 that Wii U's tech is beyond that of the PS3/360 generation.

Well, recently Team Ninja said it was as powerful as the other two with enough extra power to run things on the gamepad. The point is no one has said it is anything more than a slight bump at best, so expecting it to come close to the other two is some very wishful thinking.
 

Margalis

Banned
I took bgassassin to task a couple times for talking about things he clearly knew nothing about and using his own posts on B3D to corroborate his Gaf posts but every time I did that people jumped all over me for being mean. (To be fair I am mean)

I've said this a million times - you are either a developer with actual information or you aren't. There's not much room in between those where you have a cousin who has a roommate who totally works at a publisher the way ideaman and bgassassin claimed to have.

If you are actually a developer you have detailed specs. If you aren't a developer you have third-hand rumors. Any time someone is talking about "sources" and the source isn't themselves you should just ignore them.

This is why I was so frustrated in those threads. I've worked on the Wii, PS3 and 360. I'm not going to claim to the world's top expert on console architecture but I at least know something about it, and console programming, and stuff like how Nintendo releases technical information to developers. People in those threads were clearly basically just making stuff up and building more and more baseless assumptions on top of each other.

Every time I heard about "GPGPU" I wanted to rip someone's head off. It's just a buzzword people latched onto. Can you use compute shaders on Wii U? Maybe, sure. If the GPU is fairly middling is that going to give you an amazing perf boost? Probably not.

Readers on Neogaf really need to learn that when it comes to technical stuff 99% of Gaf posters are clueless - even ones who sound reasonable. A lot of these people hear a term, spend 2 minutes on Wikipedia reading about it, then come back here pretending to be experts.
 
If devs were so quick to throw Wii U into a volcano as people on this forum, we should have gotten word of its weakness in some way. NDA or not. Majority confirmation. There's no shortness of "insider sources" at GAF.

Better to wait for the full teardown, not a part or two. The full lasagna
 
I took bgassassin to task a couple times for talking about things he clearly knew nothing about and using his own posts on B3D to corroborate his Gaf posts but every time I did that people jumped all over me for being mean. (To be fair I am mean)

Wasn't that the dude who made this big deal out of "leaving". lol
 

Gahiggidy

My aunt & uncle run a Mom & Pop store, "The Gamecube Hut", and sold 80k WiiU within minutes of opening.
I think the prudent thing is to wait and see how Super Mario Wii U and similar big budget games look. The only 3D game we've seen made from Nintendo that isn't a port is Nintendoland... which compared to Wii Sports, looks to be closer to three generations ahead of the last "Mii" game.
 
If devs were so quick to throw Wii U into a volcano as people on this forum, we should have gotten word of its weakness in some way. NDA or not. There's no shortness of "insider sources" at GAF

Better to wait for the full teardown, not a part or two. The full lasagna

What about the countless "anonymous" developer quotes saying it was on par? And the only insider developer who has been certified a real developer? Can't you also say the same thing another way? If the Wii U actually was a big step above the other two wouldn't we have heard it somewhere?
 
I took bgassassin to task a couple times for talking about things he clearly knew nothing about and using his own posts on B3D to corroborate his Gaf posts but every time I did that people jumped all over me for being mean. (To be fair I am mean)

That guy was insufferable. I'm glad he's disappeared but he'll no doubt be back when the 720/Durango/Orbis/whatever start to flesh out.

Wasn't that the dude who made this big deal out of "leaving". lol

600+GFLOP GPU and advanced CPU 3x-4x the current gen in terms of power just close enough to next gen to not be left behind guys you will see im leaving now a day before launch but when i come back all of you guys will have egg on your face.
 
Oh, well I should say, I've literally only read those two, if there were many in the interim suggesting a notable change of heart, then sure.

Although at this point, this board at least, seems to be under the impression it is merely on par with PS360. I'm not sure we'll ever really know though, it's seven years on, and we're still debating if the PS3 or the 360 is more powerful, I don't expect anything definitive out of the Wii U comparisons, ever.

Personally I'm not that bothered, if Zelda matches the tech demo, I'll bust a nut, regardless of any factual comparison.

I don't know man, you should know how this place works by now after 50,000 posts lol. Same re Zelda though.
 
This is what Arkam said. Basically specs are disappointing. The CPU is enhanced Broadway. Memory is slow. No mention of eDram.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=34909953&postcount=5407

Yeah, Arkam stated this awhile back, so thanks for finding his direct post. He indirectly mentioned the eDRAM later, since the "final specs" leak was actually due to him :p

Per nintendo's docs the GPU's API "GX2" Supports some features greater than SM 4. SM4 is just given as a point of reference. Ill post the detail later when I have the time.

and on a side note:
Wow vgleaks.com didnt even change a single word or my formatting... That part is kind of sad. I should have made something up just to make them(and who ever "shared" my discussion) look bad :p

Either way, Arkam appeared to be a bit more optimistic for the Wii U later on, but he did say that the problems that we are seeing for launch games will happen.

Originally Posted by bgassassin: View Post
Have (some of) your impressions "lightened up" since January? :p

Some yes. But the same problems are still present if you are porting a game over from the Xbox360. So if companies dont want to invest retooling games, you will get crappy(downgraded) ports.


That said,I am nothing but excited for the console and cant't wait to see the first round of games made from the ground up on the WiiU. That is when we will see what this little beast can do!

That quote also points out that BGassassin and Arkam got along, in case Van was trying to start something.

Arkam was always full legit, we made sure of that. He kept posting, every now and then, in other threads, including the last spec thread that I made. Sadly his voice of reason was lost beneath the 'speculation'.

EDIT: I should note we confirmed Arkam legit around that post, and people still swept it under the rug.

Yes, some people attacked him unjustly, but the more reasonable posters did accepted him, though.
 

wsippel

Banned
What about the countless "anonymous" developer quotes saying it was on par? And the only insider developer who has been certified a real developer?
Yeah, what about them? I have no idea who those "anonymous" dudes were. How much did they know? What's their job? Do we even know they're coders? We don't. That's the problem. Yes, the Shin'en guy for example only ever worked on Nintendo platforms, but at least we know he's an experienced coder and a licensed developer, not a janitor at Ubisoft Bulgaria.
 

kinggroin

Banned
Im telling you, they should have packaged only the pro controller, made off tv play mandatory, and sell the pad separately. This would have allowed for max fps.
 

Gahiggidy

My aunt & uncle run a Mom & Pop store, "The Gamecube Hut", and sold 80k WiiU within minutes of opening.
I don't suppose the other two consoles will end up as small "bump" as well?

I don't so much mind the Wii U being where it is as I do the fact that there could be much more powerful consoles out at the same time. It will suck as no matter how good Wii U exclusives look, there will be games for competing consoles that look a full generation ahead, dampening the excitement.
 
Yeah, what about them? I have no idea who those "anonymous" dudes were. How much did they know? What's their job? Do we even know they're coders? We don't. That's the problem. Yes, the Shin'en guy for example only ever worked on Nintendo platforms, but at least we know he's an experienced coder and a licensed developer, not a janitor at Ubisoft Bulgaria.

I agree we definitely shouldn't take those at face value. I was responding to the idea that we haven't heard anything about the Wii U's power from anyone

I don't so much mind the Wii U being where it is as I do the fact that there could be much more powerful consoles out at the same time. It will suck as no matter how good Wii U exclusives look, there will be games for competing consoles that look a full generation ahead, dampening the excitement
.

Nintendo is going to make some good games that look fantastic for the hardware they were made on. If it bothers you that much that people might think the Wii U looks bad in comparison to some other games, then I don't know what to tell you. All that matters is that you enjoy the games you are playing. Enjoy what you enjoy and don't let all that matter. The situation won't be as bad as the Wii at the very least if that makes you feel better.
 
It probably won't be quite as bad as on Wii; I'm sure multiplatform support will benefit at least somewhat from having a modern GPU architecture, but I suspect the lifetime percentage of multiplats received will still end up closer to that of Wii than even GC. (Though I don't think specs are necessarily the primary reason for poor third-party support.)

Nintendo probably could have future-proofed it quite a bit more than they did at a fairly low additional cost, had they not been so set on keeping the size and power draw of the actual console as low as possible. Sigh.

They specs absolutely are the reason. The GC had pretty good parity with the other consoles for ports, online features notwithstanding. Third parties didn't give two shits about the Wii because it wasn't merely porting over assets and an HD-twins engine for a game...it was essentially creating a whole new game, and very often a poor imitation of the HD twins' version. Hence, no one gave a shit. Very bad downward spiral that doesn't appear to have been broken with the Wii U.
 

Coolwhip

Banned
So Arkam was right in the end. Interesting. Weren't there a ton of people 'in the know' countering what he said? What happened to them?
 

Gahiggidy

My aunt & uncle run a Mom & Pop store, "The Gamecube Hut", and sold 80k WiiU within minutes of opening.
This may sound crazy, but what if new legislation was passed mandating an upper limit to TDP for home consoles sold in the U.S.?
 

Gahiggidy

My aunt & uncle run a Mom & Pop store, "The Gamecube Hut", and sold 80k WiiU within minutes of opening.
Are you just trying to find ways to gimp any hypothetical Sony or Microsoft consoles or something?

Yes, I'm desperate not to experience a repeat of the Wii years. Having to sit through all those commercials for high-definition Xbox games was soul-crushing.
 

AmFreak

Member
Really, do tell us how much each console cost to build including the manufacturing in China, shipping all over the world, storage, and every part of the Gamepad including the exchange rates to different countries.

The problem is that it just doesn't add up.
You can build a faster pc than the wiiu for 300€. You can buy a Chinese tablet for 50€. So for 350€ you as a consumer can get more than the Wii U has (hardware inside the tablet, the pc being faster). So it's a legitimate question how they sell for a loose if i can build better hardware without loosing money.
 
Yes, I'm desperate not to experience a repeat of the Wii years. Having to sit through all those commercials for high-definition Xbox 360 games was soul-crushing.

Dude you might just want to take a break from video games for a while. If it makes you feel better 2 years after the other two launch they will look outdated from a PC perspective.

You can build a faster pc than the wiiu for 300€. You can buy a Chinese tablet for 50€.

This is not how manufacturing costs work.
 
I refuse to give up hope until I see a big budget Nintendo first party game made from the ground up for the system. You ought to have plenty of performance from a machine that costs $300+ to manufacture.

They didn't spend $300 on the console - that's part of the problem. A lot of R&D and mfg cost went into the controller and I think we're seeing the results of that by way of cut corners in the console proper.
 

Gahiggidy

My aunt & uncle run a Mom & Pop store, "The Gamecube Hut", and sold 80k WiiU within minutes of opening.
Dude you might just want to take a break from video games for a while. If it makes you feel better 2 years after the other two launch they will look outdated from a PC perspective.

I already did take a break, specifically the years 2008-2011 off from gaming while I waited for Nintendo to let Wii run its course and catch up with the competition.
 

LeleSocho

Banned
Yes, I'm desperate not to experience a repeat of the Wii years. Having to sit through all those commercials for high-definition Xbox games was soul-crushing.

I know that feel bro... that's why i'm not buying the wiiu... or at least it will not be my next console, will wait for microsoft or sony then at the end if one of these two reveals itself a failure maybe will buy a wiiu
 
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