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KSweeley · May 23, 2017

Link: https://twitter.com/therealcliffyb/status/866676227280687109

Cliff Bleszinski‏Verified account
@therealcliffyb

Cliff Bleszinski Retweeted Jermain Jackson
No. Cross play is dumb, buddy.

Ars Technica article: https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2017/05/lawbreakers-dev-pcconsole-cross-platform-play-is-dumb/

As if to drive the point home, Bleszinski gave a blunt response to a Twitter user asking about the prospect of cross-platform play. "No. Cross play is dumb, buddy," he tweeted.

Theslammer · May 23, 2017

Why?

EDIT: Hey, clicking the article RULES. xD~~

dugdug · May 23, 2017

Could be referencing M+KB vs controller, in which case...I mean, yeah.

OdysseusVA · May 23, 2017

just add native m&kb support on the ps4, buddy

Leafhopper · May 23, 2017

As for the tweet itself, that's the most Cliffy response I heard in a few years.

Sheroking · May 23, 2017

For shooters, it doesn't make much sense for PVP crossplay.

Xer0 said:
Could be referencing M+KB vs controller, in which case...I mean, yeah.

If you read the article, that's exactly his issue.

Theswweet · May 23, 2017

Unless they add Keyboard and Mouse support for PS4 (I know a few games do it, so maybe they actually could? Might be cool) then yeah, keep the two playerbases separate.

q1dm4 · May 23, 2017

he's not wrong in this specific circumstance

Phrozenflame500 · May 23, 2017

Expanded in the article:

"We made the decision not to do cross-play, and there are a lot of people with this pipe dream of PC and console cross-play," Lawbreakers lead developer Cliff Bleszinski told PCGamesN while announcing a PS4 port of what was formerly a PC exclusive. "It's like, 'No, be the best console game you can be, or be the best PC game you can be.' Because then you get PC players getting angry that there's aim assist on console, or with balance issues."
The announcement follows on a Eurogamer interview Bleszinski gave a year ago, in which he commented on a then-theoretical console version. "The thing about the controller is it's going to be tricky," he said at the time. "We've played around with the controller a little bit and, thing is, if we get around to doing console ports, I don't want to do cross-play. Some people think that's the holy grail for a lot of games, and I'm like, 'no.' If you have somebody with a keyboard and mouse versus somebody with a controller, I'm sorry, but the person with the keyboard and mouse is going to win nine times out of 10."

Makes sense.

IsntChrisL · May 23, 2017

Well he's right that console players will get their asses handed to them most of the time.

CountAntonius · May 23, 2017

For FPS I can see it. Especially a game as fast and twitch based as Lawbreakers. It could possibly ruin the experience for console players who can't turn in midair and make the shots that come easy on mouse&kb. On some PC games you can use a pad but it's a choice you make to take on that challenge. Unsuspecting console gamers should not be forced to play with PC players.

Rembrandt · May 23, 2017

Makes sense with lawbreakers.

Wonder if there's gonna be kb&m support for the PS4.

UCBooties · May 23, 2017

Oh, this is a Cliffy B game? Well there goes whatever shred of interest I had in the title.

massoluk · May 23, 2017

I have yet to see PC & Console crossplay working out great for shooters. So, I'm with Cliffy

spazchicken · May 23, 2017

I can see his point for shooters and RTS games but it's the greatest thing ever for fighters like Street Fighter V and maybe even every other genre.

Segmenting your player base when you don't have to is dumb.

Sheroking · May 23, 2017

spazchicken said:
I can see his point for shooters and RTS games but it's the greatest thing ever for fighters like Street Fighter V and maybe even every other genre.

For SFV specifically, it's caused some problems with the netcode. It's at it's worst when crossplay occurs.

Which is probably why MVC:I doesn't have it.

pretty done · May 23, 2017

IsntChrisL said:
Well he's right that console players will get their asses handed to them most of the time.

all of the time

inb4 some poster comes in here talking about how he top frags every match in every FPS with a pad on PC. It always happens

spazchicken · May 23, 2017

Sheroking said:
For SFV specifically, it's caused some problems with the netcode. It's at it's worst when crossplay occurs.

Which is probably why MVC:I doesn't have it.

I've never noticed it but I'd rather have it and it be kinda janky than not have it at all. They give the option to choose your platform to play against as well.

My brother and I get games in on different platforms and it's good times.

soultron · May 23, 2017

Stop making threads out of stuff Cliff says.

I agree with him when it comes to FPS games.

Atomski · May 23, 2017

OdysseusVA said:
just add native m&kb support on the ps4, buddy

So many console gamers refuse to use m&kb it would just piss them off that someone has an advantage over them because they love controllers.

Also another reason crossplay has been crap in the past is it takes to long for patches to get through on console games. There may be a simple bug that needs fixing that can be done instantly on PC while on console it has to get passed through cert first..

Skyzard · May 23, 2017

I wonder how popular those devices to let you hook up a mouse and keyboard to your PS4 are these days in competitive MP games.

And how many people use pads on MP pc games...

Such an annoying issue, wish there was a better way and one that allowed cross-play but sorted you into which control method you want to play with.

Tagyhag · May 23, 2017

OdysseusVA said:
just add native m&kb support on the ps4, buddy

No, that'd be dumb too because now anyone who plays on the PS4 who doesn't have a keyboard and mouse is at an inherent disadvantage.

My guess is that whenever devs want to do cross-play on a shooter where the mouse gives a clear advantage they should either have an exclusive mode that allows for cross-play (Maybe giving the console users balanced aim assist or keyboard/mouse support) or not allowing cross-play on the PC unless you're using a controller.

Cmagus · May 23, 2017

Oddly enough during the recent beta more than half the people I played with were using controllers.

Squire · May 23, 2017

I mean, nobody gives a shit about Lawbreakerz to begin with, so *shrug*

KingBroly · May 23, 2017

Sheroking said:
For SFV specifically, it's caused some problems with the netcode. It's at it's worst when crossplay occurs.

Which is probably why MVC:I doesn't have it.

What caused crossplay problems with SFV is their shitty servers and one-sided rollback netcode. Which is why they're moving to new servers.

robotrock · May 23, 2017

I think Cliffy B is the reason we don't make threads based on tweets anymore

Atomski · May 23, 2017

Skyzard said:
I wonder how popular those devices to let you hook up a mouse and keyboard to your PS4 are these days in competitive MP games.

And how many people use pads on MP pc games...

Such an annoying issue, wish there was a better way and one that allowed cross-play but sorted you into which control method you want to play with.

It's just not worth splitting the player base.

Rembrandt · May 23, 2017

Squire said:
I mean, nobody gives a shit about Lawbreakerz to begin with, so *shrug*

Lmaooo, I can imagine him being bewildered at the sudden change in reception here. Back to the usual, I guess.

Diablohead · May 23, 2017

There is nothing dumb about cross play

Grief.exe · May 23, 2017

No one thinks FPS crossplay is a good idea.

VariantX · May 23, 2017

KingBroly said:
What caused crossplay problems with SFV is their shitty servers and one-sided rollback netcode. Which is why they're moving to new servers.

Yeah, KI doesn't seem to have these problems from what i've played.

molnizzle · May 23, 2017

I love how CliffyB has been demoted to "Lawbreakers dev."

Fancolors · May 23, 2017

I don't know a single thing about Lawbreakers, but I imagine it is a competitive shooter? In this case it's make sense to keep both separated because of balance. Would love to get more crossplay for co-op stuff tho.

robotrock · May 23, 2017

Ars Technia is pulling some shoddy journalism with how they completely discarded the "

" in the cliffy b tweet

boybrushdRED · May 23, 2017

I believe this is because of the delivery of patches/updates. In Steam, they could straight up patch the game right away, while on PS4 and XB1, patches will need to be certified first by Sony and Microsoft before going live. That could make cross play kinda impossible because of different game versions.

Ploid 3.0 · May 23, 2017

Even with Paragon I feel I'm at an advantage with mouse/kb over playing with a regular controller (not counting steam controller). For ranged characters only though. Which is why I think they make fewer rangers.

boybrushdRED said:
I believe this is because of the delivery of patches/updates. In Steam, they could straight up patch the game right away, while on PS4 and XB1, patches will need to be certified first by Sony and Microsoft before going live. That could make cross play kinda impossible because of different game versions.

Clif should find out how his Epic buddies got such a fast patch process with Sony on Paragon if that was the case. A patch every 2 weeks, or maybe every week? New character every 3 weeks.

titiklabingapat · May 23, 2017

I still don't understand how m/k isn't natively supported on the PS4 and X1. Would have bought one a long time ago if they did. I mean, higher powered consoles today want to be pcs anyway.

molnizzle · May 23, 2017

Ploid 3.0 said:
Even with Paragon I feel I'm at an advantage with mouse/kb over playing with a regular controller (not counting steam controller). For ranged characters only though. Which is why I think they make fewer rangers.

It's a definite advantage.

Thing is, Paragon has full M+KB support on PS4. So technically console players could have that advantage as well.

...which kinda bums me out, honestly, because I just want to use a controller.

Budi · May 23, 2017

It's given that console / PC crossplay in a shooter would be bad times.

Squire said:
I mean, nobody gives a shit about Lawbreakerz to begin with, so *shrug*

I mean, you don't. Anybody going to have even hotter take on this?

ctw0e said:
Your game is dumb, buddy

You tried, but didn't beat Squire imo!

paperspace · May 23, 2017

Johndoey · May 23, 2017

ctw0e said:
Your game is dumb, buddy

I mean he's saying that cross-play for this particular title would be a bad idea, and considering it's supposed to be a fairly fast paced FPS he's completely right. It's not a comment on the idea of cross-play itself.

robotrock · May 23, 2017

ctw0e said:
Your game is dumb, buddy

Someone ask Cliffy B if he's okay after this

Kayo Police · May 23, 2017

He's not wrong really. To be honest I'm personally tired of one of my friends saying the players on ps4 for OW are actually better than ones one PC because they're handicapped by a controller. That the game is far more tactical because the games progresses at a slower pace.

Come on man you know better.

RedAssedApe · May 23, 2017

hot-take. having the option isn't dumb.

I don't have stats (hence the hot take) but I'd argue most of the player population, pc included aren't pro gamers and the disparity between the player bases isn't going to be that great between the average/casual players. When I used to play skill based twitch shooters on PC like Quake or Unreal, there was a huge range of skill levels. Just like you see in console lobbies.

Games can also easily change the playlists based on community feedback or player population:

pc only
console only
pc+console

i.e. if pc gamers are destroying console gamers so no one from console is joining the pc+console playlist. drop that playlist accordingly and those pc players will go back into the first pool. or adjust things based on rank or casual modes.

isn't gears of war 4 on xbox cross play? how does that fare? granted i'm going to assume cliffyb is strictly talking about his game and FPSes.

Ploid 3.0 · May 23, 2017

titiklabingapat said:
I still don't understand how m/k isn't natively supported on the PS4 and X1. Would have bought one a long time ago if they did. I mean, higher powered consoles today want to be pcs anyway.

Next gen I just wished the console manufacturers would follow Valve initiative on the simplified control standards.

Long video but good stuff if devs follow it, for consoles and PC, it's not about Steam Controller, but a base for making it easier to use different methods of control easier to allow players to use whatever they want to play a game. 5 Golden Roles of Input as he says at start. https://youtu.be/7I4SiAiKqqk?t=949

You should do something like, "if any game pad's .A was pushed it should do the thing." And by "any game pad" I mean whatever gamepad is controlled according to whether I'm looking for the first one connected, or just player one. Um, but it should also mean any device. So if I got a PS4 controller, the X should mean the "A" button. If it's the Xbox 360 it means the A button. You know, I really mean the bottom face button. So that sort of abstraction make it simpler to deal with multiple devices all at once, with cleaner input code.

NoctisVsStar · May 23, 2017

he's not wrong in this scenario, personally idc for crossplay but to do people that do well... you can't fault the man for not giving a pc answer.

Mechazawa · May 23, 2017

I would personally be very surprised if Lawbreakers becomes successful enough to even warrant a console port.

capylikesgames · May 23, 2017

KB+M vs Gamepad? Sure. Cross-console? Not so much. I get the complications behind it, but I wouldn't call it useless.

EDIT: Yeah OK, based on the article, his arguments are fine in my opinion. I personally believe the GoW4 console/PC crossplay is silly, for a number of reasons.

Budi · May 23, 2017

We also had many people in these forums arguing against small amount of disabled gamers playing Overwatch with mouse and keyboard because they get "unfair advantage". And now people want PC / console crossplay. Not the same people ofcourse, but it's quite a contrast.

henhowc said:
isn't gears of war 4 on xbox cross play? how does that fare? granted i'm going to assume cliffyb is strictly talking about his game and FPSes.

I don't play the game so I don't exactly know what these mean but, "Social Quickplay will now be a Cross-play playlist!" "Core and Competitive will remain platform independent". They say that their test weekend results showed KD ratios and scores to be quite close between platforms, but not close enough to expand it into competitive too. Since they want those matches to be absolutely fair and offer the best experience.

Permanently A · May 23, 2017

He's completely right though. No console player would be happy with getting completely shit on by PC players.

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