Aters said:

I don't know how P5 is more SMT than P3 and P4 other than you fight demons. SMT4A is Persona as fuck though. I sure hope that SMT HD is nothing like SMT4A.

Click to expand...

For SMT4A beeing too much like Persona. I don't think that is so bad, because the prequel wasn't all that great compared to Nocturne. I just missed the atmosphere Nocturne is known for.
Maybe a bit more characterisation will make it more interesting to me. I will see for myself when i play it in the future.
But i would prefer if the new SMT follows more in Nocturnes path.

Etrian Odyssey 3 (underrated)

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A series that flew under my radar because Europe. Didn’t notice this series until 4 because of it.
Fun classes, fun gameplay, fun MAP DRAWING. Yuzo Koshiro does a killer soundtrack. There’s enough of a story to get invested in it. This entry added subclassing and new game+. This game still has some of my favourite classes. Ninja/Zodiac TP battery is fun. Arbalist just front motor spam. I enjoyed this game quite a bit.
The Lovecraftian undertones, the stratum funsies and the sea puzzles are a nice side distraction compared to the labyrinth exploration with a bunch of basically puzzle bosses with a few set party members.
It’s hard for me to explain why this is one of my favourite games ever. But if you can enjoy a DRPG, you should play this.

Shadowrun Dragonfall Director's Cut (highlight)

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I played it because I saw that image, I feel in love with that troll woman’s design (Eiger <3) and the name is DRAGONFALL. This was an easy sell. The grid based movement combat is simple enough to be enjoyable. It’s been said a lot about these games but the character writing is some of the best I’ve read in a video game.
The setting is really good. It’s punkish anarchist Berlin.
Eiger, great. I feel she’s underrated as a character. Tough, ranger, military person.
Glory is pretty amazing. She’s just an interest concept as a character so it’s no surprise she is so loved.
Dietrich is actually the underrated character, no one really talks about this old punk rocker shaman with a cool ass totem. The biggest shame for him is his ‘personal mission’ is baked into the game’s story (pre-DC version) and isn’t as developed compared to the others.
Blitz who? That’s not fair to be honest. He’s just not as interesting. But still a well written character.
The reason it’s my highlight is that it’s a short, very well written RPG. Everyone should play this.

Digital Devil Saga 1 & 2

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No idea what the rules are for it, but I'll consider them as one game, but split them in the vote info.
Honestly one of my favourite games. Like easily. In short, it's Nocturne but with real characters. The push turn system, but instead of demons your team are the demons and the skill trees means your party build can be very flexible. Your party can change in and out of their Avatar forms and in DDS2 there is another state where your party are in a battle frenzy and turn into glass cannons, but you get more exp.
By the end of my time with it, I loved each of the characters even Cielo (who I hated in the first game with his Jamaican accent). It explores eastern philosophy in a sci-fi setting, even if the game is a bit nose on with its setting Nirvana and the main team are called Embyron.
Argilla is the best, so is Heat… but Gale is also pretty good, Roland is cool too and Serph. Even the supporting characters such as Jinana, even scumbag Bat, and even Angel.
If it being a Atlus RPG hasn’t sold you on it already, hopefully the exploration of eastern philosophy and religion themes is enough to convince you.
This duology has some of my favourite moments in gaming to boot.

Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Survivor

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People complaining about SMT and FE should have played this and realised this is FE and SMT.
Kids trapped in Tokyo with demons. Feels like a weird retelling of SMT1. Multiple endings and routes. Overclocked adds a decent epilogue to several routes.

Xenoblade Chronicles

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I really feel it. Didn’t get it on Wii because effort. Got it on N3DS because I felt like I had to (and it was dirt cheap when I got round to it). Easily one of the best RPGs, and I played it portable. This is what got me into MMORPGs. The combat is great, basically someone takes aggro, get into a position and then you wail on them.

Chrono Trigger

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I first played this on DS, European, this shows my childhood was a mistake. It’s a cool adventure. It’s still very unique even in 2009 and even now in 2017. And I feel like it’s a good thing that Chrono Trigger feels like a longer game than it actually is. It makes replaying it super easy but still feels very meaty. The funfair opening is one of the most memorable things in the game. I dunno what I could even say that’s new about this game, it’s all been said before.

Yakuza 0

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I feel like this one edges out over other the Yakuza games. Yakuza 4 was probably my favourite before it, and before that 2.
The game manages to skirt the line of super serious crime drama and strange, bizarre scenario, yet somehow doesn’t feel like a tonal mess. You can go from a guy being murdered to a guy in his underpants dancing around talking about imagining girls naked.
And then suddenly you have to save the Tojo clan from itself, to then go play Outrun in the arcades. Plus 0 adds Majima as a playable character, where he is a much more sombre character than the main series. Both Kiryu and Majima have stances, the combat is fun and quick (thanks no loading screens).

Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Summoner: Soul Hackers

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Sexy defines her.
Wait a second, I nearly put this in my honourable mentions and I need to be chastised for that. It’s a very 90s RPG, in its aesthetic and sound design. If you have a 3DS this should be one of the RPGs you pick up. Throw that SMT4 on the ground. Grab a gun with a computer attached, let your best friend get possessed and go on a rad cyber adventure.

LISA the Painful RPG

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Just play it. It costs like 7 Brexit Bucks. If you’re a real stingy bastard wait for the next sale.
You play as Brad. This is just a damn good game that everyone should play. It’s a short 10 hour RPG. It’s an experience that won’t leave me any time soon. It may be slightly rough and the game balance isn’t quite all there, but it’s a very good game.



The Honourable Mentions
Final Fantasy XIV – Played the original PS3 beta, didn’t feel too keen on it. Xenoblade opened me up to the gameplay. Now I’m addicted.
Final Fantasy IV – I’ve bought this game so much. I prefer the DS version the most. Just your standard RPG in the very best sense.
Etrian Odyssey IV – What got me into the series, just a very good game. Best entry level EO game and it’s on 3DS.
Final Fantasy Tactics – Only really a honourable mention because I’m currently playing through it.
Pokemon HeartGold/SoulSilver – It’s Pokemon. It’s a remake of my personal favourite generation. It’s a no brainer.
Shin Megami Tensei IV: Apocalypse – Fixes the garbage fire that’s SMT4. Sadly the tropey friend characters exist but they kinda have to for the game. Though kill your friends, they suck. It’s a universal truth.
Bloodborne – My favourite of the Souls games. Ambiguous story telling and deceptive opening that isn’t indicative of what the game ends up being and the gameplay pace is a lot faster and designed for more aggression. It is also the easiest of the Souls games because dodge is OP and you’re encouraged to dodge. This is a reason to buy a PS4. (I actually swapped this out my main list)
Nier Automata – I mean this is only in my honourable mentions because this is probably one of my favourite games ever but I don’t see it as an RPG. Much like Nier. But hey people are listing it so why not.
Persona 5 – Best of the last 3 Persona games. It’s worth a mention. Very much worth playing.
XCOM 2 – Better than XCOM EU. Worth playing.
Shin Megami Tensei: Strange Journey – Good DS game, please play Redux next year.


--VOTE INFO START—

<FULL POINT GAMES – 2 points>
{HIGHLIGHT – 3 points} Shadowrun: Dragonfall Director's Cut
{UNDERRATED – 4 points} Etrian Odyssey III: The Drowned City
Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Survivor
Digital Devil Saga
Digital Devil Saga 2
Xenoblade Chronicles
Chrono Trigger
Yakuza 0
LISA the Painful RPG
Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Summoner: Soul Hackers

<HONORABLE MENTIONS – 1 point>
Final Fantasy XIV
Final Fantasy IV
Etrian Odyssey IV
Final Fantasy Tactics: War of the Lions
Pokemon HeartGold/SoulSilver
Shin Megami Tensei IV: Apocalypse
Nier Automata
Persona 5
XCOM 2
Shin Megami Tensei Strange Journey

--VOTE INFO END--

I will be filling in my thoughts on games with detailed information later.

--VOTE INFO START—

<FULL POINT GAMES – 2 points>
{HIGHLIGHT – 3 points} Dark Souls
{UNDERRATED – 4 points} Persona 4
Bloodborne
Demon's Souls
Persona 5
Etrian Odyssey 4
Pillars of Eternity
Pokemon Silver
Valkyria Chronicles
Mass Effect


--VOTE INFO END--

For my top five games:

Chrono Cross is my favorite game of all time. It's remained my favorite game since I picked it up from a Gamestop when I was kid because I thought the cover looked cool. I don't know what that says about my taste, since objectively I know it's a very flawed, unfinished game. It's also a very bold game, and one that tried. It tried new gameplay ideas that are just now getting more widely adopted, it tried being a sequel to one of the most popular RPGs of all time by going in a completely different direction, and it tried being not what was expected of it.

Even when I replay it now and see the flaws more clearly, I still see how much passion and effort went into it, and how that came together to make outstanding presentation and interesting, engaging systems to play through over and over. It's still my favorite game, and I doubt that will ever change.

Baten Kaitos Origins was a game that I actively avoided for some time. I played the first game, hated it, and then wrote off anything I saw about Origins because I figured it wasn't the type of game for me. Eventually however, the number of people who also hated the first game who raved about Origins got to me, and I gave it try.

If I were to boil down what BKO meant to me to its simplest terms, it would first be that it was like a modern Chrono Cross in its beauty and boldness, and second that it reminded me how fun RPGs could be in a time where I was growing tired of typical battle systems. This was not the first MonolithSoft game I played, but it was the first that really made me realize how dedicated to deep, engaging gameplay systems they really are as a studio.

Xenoblade Chronicles X, speaking of MonolithSoft's deep and engaging gameplay, has probably the most depth of any JRPG gameplay I've ever seen. The sheer amount of options, attributes, and mechanics meant I was still discovering things about the game 80 hours in. It's the most I've ever played on a single save file of a single-player game, and that's because it never got boring in the 120 hours I played of it.

Xenoblade Chronicles does not have the same depth as its successor, but the first game showed me all the different things that JRPGs could be today: it set out a bold new direction for the genre that Final Fantasy XII had previously aimed for. The scale and beauty of the environments plus the interesting cast and plot kept me wanting more all the way to the end.

The World Ends With You is a game that revels in being unique and unrestrained, a game that asks the player give the time to get a handle on it because the story, characters, and gameplay will all be worth it in the end. There's never been another game like this.


For a few honorable mentions:

Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne is the game that made me realize SMT's style of gameplay is not for me. At all. It was not the last SMT game I played, but it was the last one I finished. That's because, even though the gameplay and battles and level design and everything people told me was great just grated on me and made me wonder if I had to be a masochist to enjoy it, Nocturne had some of the most thoughtful and interesting character writing I'd ever seen in a game. The evolution of the characters and their ideals is incredible, and made me feel like I knew these characters on a deeper, more core level than any others I had ever seen before in games, even with the very limited amount of time they each get and no dialogue to express themselves. Even hating the game, the characters drove me to see it through to the end. I just wish I had watched a cutscene compilation on YouTube instead of playing it.

Grandia III is a game I was debating about putting up here. The debate was over it or Tales of Graces f, both games with some of the most fun gameplay I've ever played. Ultimately, even though I would say Tales of Graces f has the better combat, it also tries its hardest to keep you from enjoying it with horrible story, cutscenes, characters, dungeons, and the worst teaching of gameplay systems I've seen in a while with an over-extended tutorial that teaches you practically nothing about the game. Grandia III knows why it exists, what it's good at, and it facilitates you getting to the combat as easily and quickly as possible. That's why I chose Grandia III.

NieR Automata has simplistic gameplay with little of the variety its predecessor had, and has an almost completely broken balance to the gameplay as it goes along, but the game has the best, most purposeful writing I've ever seen in pretty much anything, along with amazing voice performances and cutscene direction all dedicated to exploring its central themes in-depth over 40 hours. It's an outstanding accomplishment in many ways, but also a big disappointment to me as a fan of both Platinum and NieR's gameplay. Still worth playing for the narrative that can't be rightfully experienced in any other way, just with tempered expectations.

Undertale is special. I can't explain it, you can't understand it just by reading about or watching someone else's experience. It's something that has to be played on your own.

--VOTE INFO START&#8212;

<FULL POINT GAMES &#8211; 2 points>
{HIGHLIGHT &#8211; 3 points} Chrono Cross
{UNDERRATED &#8211; 4 points} Baten Kaitos Origins
Xenoblade Chronicles X
Xenoblade Chronicles
The World Ends With You
Final Fantasy X
Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door
Bloodborne
Deus Ex: Human Revolution
NieR

<HONORABLE MENTIONS &#8211; 1 point>
Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne
Grandia III
NieR Automata
Undertale
Final Fantasy VII
Persona 4
Dark Souls
Xenosaga Episode III
Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn
Etrian Odyssey IV

--VOTE INFO END--

Aters said:

I don't know how P5 is more SMT than P3 and P4 other than you fight demons. SMT4A is Persona as fuck though. I sure hope that SMT HD is nothing like SMT4A.

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Demon negotiations are a pretty big similarity. And the last few areas are definitely the closest persona ever felt to SMT - also really reminded me of the last parts of Raidou 2 for some reason. There's also the return of guns.

Eridani said:

Demon negotiations are a pretty big similarity. And the last few areas are definitely the closest persona ever felt to SMT - also really reminded me of the last parts of Raidou 2 for some reason. There's also the return of guns.

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Sounds like returning to Persona 2, not SMT.

Aters said:

Sounds like returning to Persona 2, not SMT.

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I mean, Persona 2 was also closer to SMT than P3 and P4, so is there really much of a difference?

Eridani said:

I mean, Persona 2 was also closer to SMT than P3 and P4, so is there really much of a difference?

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Yes. I usually differentiate the two series by tones. SMT has a much darker tones and it offers different routes without a clear morally "correct" one. Persona is much lighter and it offers a clear "good route".

In SMT4A, only the neutral route is worth it while the other routes are just bad endings. The tone is also a major change from everything before.

As of this post, 115 people have submitted votes that are eligible for Cosmic Star Heroine and the game raffles.

Eligible posts are those which list at least 5 games with comments for each explaining why they were chosen.

If you are eligible for Cosmic Star Heroine and other prizes, your username should appear on this spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/11NygxUUHbzKMmPF3fUKiJqE7OYx-TAlf15rfElUN3Ng/edit#gid=0

If your name is NOT on that spreadsheet, you either posted a list without comments, added comments to a list posted before post #341, or were a recent list that I missed somehow.

Please make any required edits and then PM me a link to your list post to be added to the spreadsheet of eligible users. I WILL NOT be re-checking any posts prior to this one, so it is your responsibility to make sure that you are included in the giveaway if your list didn't qualify previously.

There are currently 85 unreserved Cosmic Star Heroine keys remaining.

If we end up getting more than 200 eligible users, it is possible that some of the later entries will still qualify for keys. At least two members have expressed a desire to pass on the free game (either due to having it, or wanting to make it available to someone who will play it).

Aters said:

Yes. I usually differentiate the two series by tones. SMT has a much darker tones and it offers different routes without a clear morally "correct" one. Persona is much lighter and it offers a clear "good route".

In SMT4A, only the neutral route is worth it while the other routes are just bad endings. The tone is also a major change from everything before.

Click to expand...

What I meant is, if P5 is closer to P2 than P3/4, and P2 is closer to SMT than P3/4, then P5 is also closer to SMT. Not in ways that are extremely important, but in more superficial ways like demon negotiations and guns.

As for the tone - the last part of P5 definitely feels a lot like SMT in that regard. Much more than anything in P3 and P4 ever did. .

Aters said:

Yes. I usually differentiate the two series by tones. SMT has a much darker tones and it offers different routes without a clear morally "correct" one. Persona is much lighter and it offers a clear "good route".

In SMT4A, only the neutral route is worth it while the other routes are just bad endings. The tone is also a major change from everything before.

Click to expand...

I think there is a difference along these or similar lines but...in the SMT III and IV at least I felt there were just a bunch of catastrophically awful choices you saw your friends make and could follow suit and then a neutral escape hatch. That sounds like how you describe SMTIVA.

SMTIV made it difficult to get through that escape hatch and, unless you cleared it, forced you to choose between too bad choices.

With Nocturne, it was incredibly easy to get the neutral path, much like it was in IVA.

At the same time, I do think you're right wrt Persona--the alternate paths just cut the game short.

I never tried the other endings in IVA. Are they just game-overs at various points or do they at least get you through the cosmic egg?

(There being extra dungeons behind, say, Nocturne's ending too).

Tone is different though. That's true.

Attempted to keep to one game per franchise, failed in one spot. Will edit and add to it when I have time and I suck at explaining my thoughts lol. majored in math back in college for a reason

Highlight - Wizardry 8:
The end of the Dark Savant trilogy, Wizardry 8 is a sprawling adventure that features an semi-open world in which the player hunts down the Dark Savant. A "blobber" RPG, in which you can engage with phase or turn based combat as you travel around searching every corner for what loot may be hiding. Wizardry 8 features my favorite combat and character development in a dungeon crawler that I've played.

Underrated - Arcanum: of Steamworks and Magick Obscura:
Arcanum is not a perfect game. Builds are extremely unbalanced and you need a fan patch to get the game to work properly without encountering a mess of bugs. However, the game shines through in a variety of other ways, such as its unique world (fantasy worlds meets the industrial revolution) and approach to quests, reactive world, etc. Having difficulty solving a murder? Resurrect his spirit and ask who murdered him! Downsides to playing a mage? You get banned from the train because magic and technology do not harmonize. A truly reactive world and one of the few RPGs you can play that does allow the player a large amount of freedom in how they approach the ga,e.

Dark Souls:
One of those games where it feels like everyone has said it better than I possibly could, but here is why I love it. Depressing and unforgiving is the world of Dark Souls, where atmosphere and combat are the forefront. The combat is challenging and more skill-based, but stills allows for character progression and good build variety allowing for multiple playthroughs.

Planescape: Torment
This game really shines due its writing, characters, player agency, and its fascinating world that is bizarre and one of the more unique places you'll ever encounter in fiction. It seems like every NPC you run across has an interesting story to tell, and the characters that you tag along with are fantastic.

Final Fantasy IX
My favorite FF game, and one of the few that I actually like.

Fallout 1
It seems many people tend to prefer Fallout 2, but I personally tend to gravitate more towards Fallout 1 for its more focused narrative and less pop-culture/4th wall breaking references.

Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic II
I personally prefer KOTOR2 over its predecessor in its attempt to deconstruct the Star Wars mythology, as I personally do not care for the Star Wars universe all that much. Featuring RtWP action combat, and more skills over the first game, KOTOR2 is a much more ambitious attempt in creating a Star Wars RPG. Also, download the fan mods if on PC!

Nier: Automata
The most recent game on my list. I tend not to care for a lot of JRPGs due to their narratives and boring combat systems, but Nier: Automata topples those. While the combat does not feature the depth of a DMC or Ninja Gaiden, it is quite fun and the narrative is unique and interesting in the way its conveyed that could only work in a video game format.

Baldur's Gate II
Bioware's magnum opus. Countless articles have been written on this game that could number its seemingly endless content. Just dive in honestly.

The Elder Scrols III: Morrowind
The last Bethesda game I enjoyed. Morrowind oozes atmosphere and an explorable world with powerful items seemingly hidden in every dungeon.


--VOTE INFO START&#8212;

<FULL POINT GAMES &#8211; 2 points>
{HIGHLIGHT &#8211; 3 points} Wizardry 8
{UNDERRATED &#8211; 4 points} Arcanum: of Steamworks and Magick Obscura
Dark Souls
Planescape: Torment
Final Fantasy IX
Fallout 1
Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic II
Nier: Automata
Baldur's Gate II
The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind

<HONORABLE MENTIONS &#8211; 1 point>
Wizardry 6
Wizardry 7
Shadowrun: Dragonfall
Alpha Protocol
Undertale
Persona 4
Pillars of Eternity
Divinity: Original SIn
Pool of Radiance
Mass Effect
--VOTE INFO END--

I don't think I'll modify my list, but wanna say that 40 hours in, Original Sin 2 would take my 2nd spot, and it's not the best RPG I've ever played only because there are some frustrating bugs. If they are patched, I could see it as number 1.

sadblob said:

I don't think I'll modify my list, but wanna say that 40 hours in, Original Sin 2 would take my 2nd spot, and it's not the best RPG I've ever played only because there are some frustrating bugs. If they are patched, I could see it as number 1.

Click to expand...

I mentioned in my list that the first Divinity would almost undoubtedly be replaced by Original Sin 2.

I'm a decent chunk into OS 2 and yes, that is absolutely the case. It is better than the first game across the board and is one of the best WRPGs ever made. If it weren't for Planescape and Ultima, it might be the best.

I won't go back and edit my list since I haven't finished OS 2 yet, but next year it will be taking its predecessor's place for sure.

So did my aswell try to include only games i was able to finish or experience properly ... for example I experience Baldur's Gate 1+2 at the times i knew little to no eghlish and my playthrough was under strict guidance of a friend who played through it various times ... so i cant really with clean conscience put it in the list

Highlight - Dark Souls:
I would say it was a game that came for me at the right time to absolutely amaze me and restart my gaming appetite. Was one of the people who came in contant with this series when PC release happened. Even spent lot of time modding as regular gamepad isnt really confortable because my hand defect. But still wasnt really prepared for what it was , after all the price i expected good game but what i play was nohing short of amazing with great gameplay look and amazing feelings when bosses were finally dead. It was at the time I was slowly fading from gaming because of real life issues and "samey-ness" of certain genes , but DS totally blow me away.

Underrated - Age of Decadence:
One of the only examples of true choice and consequence in all of videogaming set in wonderfull world with tight lore and story. Very diverse options how to play the game and thus high replayability. Too bad that because of its indie roots and oldschool audiovisual havent got enought praise and bigger appeal.

Diablo II
Was pretty much my first RPG at the time everyone was into TES/Gothic , I love cliking and looting in D2 and at the time it was my faavourite subgenre of RPG overall , but that might have been because at the time i didnt gace a clue about english language at all

Titan Quest
My since elementary school favourite mythology mixed with Diablo-esque gameplay. Also coupless coop hours spent playing with my Bro that passed away 5 years ago :-( So i am kinda emotionally attached to it

The Witcher
This one is easy .. the witcher book series are my most favourite fantasy books till this days, so the game just brough my beloved world as a game , with funny and weird local dub and nice if bit wierd gameplay (was huge fan of diablo clones at the time)

--VOTE INFO START&#8212;

<FULL POINT GAMES &#8211; 2 points>
{HIGHLIGHT &#8211; 3 points} Dark Souls
{UNDERRATED &#8211; 4 points} Age of Decadence:
The I of the Dragon - weird and junky rpg where you play as a Dagon, but has great charm to it
Diablo II
Divinity 2 - Ego Draconis - will probably get burried now with dos1 :-(
Titan Quest
The Witcher
South Park: Stick of Truth
Dragon's Dogma
Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines

<HONORABLE MENTIONS &#8211; 1 point>
Alpha Protocol
Undertale
Fallout New Vegas
Neverwinter Nights
DarkMaus
Silverfall
Sacred
Might and Magic VI: The Mandate of Heaven
Hyperdimension Neptunia Re;Birth - pretty much my intro to jRPGs and cool parody of the industry
Nier Automata

--VOTE INFO END--

MoonFrog said:

I never tried the other endings in IVA. Are they just game-overs at various points or do they at least get you through the cosmic egg?

(There being extra dungeons behind, say, Nocturne's ending too).

Tone is different though. That's true.

Click to expand...

There are two endings and two game overs:

Neutral Good and Neutral Evil are the two endings after defeating the final boss, and the Law and Chaos endings occur if you I think the latter two force you to reload a save instead of going to NG+

I don't play as many RPGs as I would like, and I've played even fewer to completion (I uninstalled the original Baldur's Gate from my PC within the past week or so, for instance). These are the ones I'd say left an impact on me.

Fallout: New Vegas - This is the game that really got me interested in RPGs as a genre. It cemented the importance of deep player expression in my mind as a gamer, what with its countless ways to finish quests and conquer the Mojave. Just being able to talk your way out of problems was a revelation to me, and with such witty and sometimes devious writing. That writing and the overall setting drew me in as well, a formerly civilized wasteland trying to rebuild and running into the common pitfalls of modern society. It's a testament to the power of gaming, and who knows what Obsidian could have concocted if they were given more time and money.

Legend of Grimrock - This is a real underrated treat of a game, a first-person dungeon crawler full of puzzles and secrets. Each new floor of the dungeon known as Grimrock brings new challenges, and you have to deal with the threat of hunger on top of all the skeletons, spiders, and ogres trying to kill you. It's a real shame that its sequel was an utter flop, although I didn't play much of it myself.

Undertale - You should've expected this one to be here just from my avatar, but Undertale is bursting with originality. Talking your enemies down is nothing new, but Undertale puts a more personal, more active spin on it that shows off Toby Fox's creativity with every new enemy encountered. The characters are all fantastic as well, and even if you don't care for the gameplay or writing, the quality of the soundtrack is undeniable.

City of Heroes - I'm a shallow person. City of Heroes isn't here for mechanical complexity, encounter design, writing, or anything else I've brought up to this point. It's here because of that goddamn character creator, designing your hero or villain's look and powerset to a degree that few games have offered since. There aren't many games that give you the tools to create a mummy with illusion-based powers while expecting nothing of the sort.

Alpha Protocol - Alpha Protocol's conversation system is the sole reason that people still talk about it, and for good reason. Just how reactive the game can be to your decisions even hours after the fact isn't seen in very many games, and not to this extent. Sure, the gameplay may be middling, but it's still dumb fun.

Stardew Valley - This is much quieter form of RPG than the rest of this list, just about living your life as a farmer. What makes Stardew Valley work is that it's main goal is to let the player set the goals. Want to catch every fish in town? You can do that. Explore the mines to very bottom? Go right ahead. Hook up with that cute goth chick? It's sad that you're only getting some in a video game, but sure.

Pillars of Eternity - What New Vegas was to 3D RPGs for me, Pillars is to Infinity engine-style RPGs. That is to say, my first real steps into the genre. Pillars is welcoming to new players of the genre, but it can be a serious tactical challenge to those already well-versed in it. Also like New Vegas, it presents an interesting world, though not quite as interesting. It's another game about leaving your mark on a world struggling to evolve.

Pokemon Sun & Moon - I'll finish this list with only RPG series I play with any sort of consistency, Pokemon. I'm picking Sun & Moon because I do sincerely consider it the best of the series with the most interesting world to explore, the most twists in how the campaign plays, and the best story in the series, though that's still not saying much. As for the gameplay, well, it's Pokemon, and Pokemon is always a delight.

--VOTE INFO START—

<FULL POINT GAMES – 2 points>
{HIGHLIGHT – 3 points} Fallout: New Vegas
{UNDERRATED – 4 points} Legend of Grimrock
Undertale
City of Heroes
Alpha Protocol
Stardew Valley
Pillars of Eternity
Pokemon Sun & Moon

--VOTE INFO END--

Deus Ex: This isn't just my favorite RPG, this is pretty much my favorite game of all time. It's debatable whether or not the two most recent sequels are better or not. They're probably better games overall but they both failed to fully recapture the magic I felt on my first playthrough of the original.

Dark Souls: The Souls series is probably the only one created in the last decade that I would consider as having been added to my list of all time favorites. And the original Dark Souls is the best as far as I'm concerned.

Dragon Quest VIII: The Journey of the Cursed King: I played this one when it originally came out on PS2 and I think it might still be the best traditional JRPG I've ever played. It's also the only mainline DQ I've played to completion, which is something I've been meaning to rectify for years. I imagine DQVII might very well also be on this list if I had ever touched the 3DS copy I bought last year.

NieR:Automata: This game came completely out of left field for me. I thought the original Nier was fucking garbage and dropped it about halfway through. I probably wouldn't have given the series a second look if it hadn't been for PlatinumGames' involvement. So it was kind of a surprise when the game ended up being pretty much my GOTY (at least so far). I'm a huge MGS fan and NieR:Automata somehow ended up scratching that Kojima itch in a way that even MGSV didn't. Once you reach Route C, it's a hell of a ride that doesn't stop until the very end.

The Legend of Heroes: Trails in the Sky the 3rd: The Trails series is probably my favorite game series right now. None of the games on their own stand out as personal favorites of mine but the series overall builds into something much greater than the sum of its parts. I went with the 3rd because it's the only one I've played that somewhat stands on its own and I didn't feel like including more than one entry per series. But I loved every single one of them so far and sunk over a hundred hours into even my least favorite one.

Ys Origin: I hesitated on which Ys game to include because most of them are fantastic but I ended up going with Origin because it's kind of its own unique thing even within the series and is about as close to perfect execution on its concept as you can possibly get. This is one of those games that I can see myself replaying every once in a while for as long as I'll still be playing video games.

Persona 3 FES: This game has some issues and is arguably a worse game than P4 (and I'm assuming P5, haven't played it yet). But P3 was my introduction to the series, was unlike anything I'd ever played at the time and its end of the world scenario is way more interesting to me than the whole Scoody-Doo thing P4 is going for. This is pretty much the game I most want a proper remake/remaster of because both versions of it have such large flaws that it kinda feels like a pick your poison situation and it really deserves a definitive version without any shitty compromises.

South Park: The Stick of Truth: I went into The Stick of Truth hoping for something akin to a new South Park movie but what I got was much better. What I got was a genuine South Park game. It actually pokes fun at gaming tropes in the same way the show does with movies and ends up feeling like a proper piece of South Park content and not just a licensed product.

Xanadu Next: The way this game sold on Steam is downright criminal. It's the very definition of a hidden gem. It's basically a cross between a metroidvania and a Diablo-style loot ARPG and it is fucking amazing.

Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne: I only got around to playing this one a few years ago and I really enjoyed it but thought it hadn't aged incredibly well. The only reason I'm picking it over SMTIV is because I haven't actually finished SMTIV. Stopped halfway through for some reason I can't remember and at this point I'm sort of dreading going back because I'll probably have to start over.


--VOTE INFO START&#8212;

<FULL POINT GAMES &#8211; 2 points>
{HIGHLIGHT &#8211; 3 points} Deus Ex
Dark Souls
Dragon Quest VIII: The Journey of the Cursed King
NieR:Automata
The Legend of Heroes: Trails in the Sky the 3rd
Ys Origin
Persona 3 FES
South Park: The Stick of Truth
{UNDERRATED &#8211; 4 points} Xanadu Next
Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne

<HONORABLE MENTIONS &#8211; 1 point>
The Legend of Heroes: Trails in the Sky FC
The Legend of Heroes: Trails in the Sky SC
The Legend of Heroes: Trails of Cold Steel
Shin Megami Tensei IV
Shadowrun: Dragonfall
Disgaea
Chrono Trigger
Ys: Memories of Celceta
Valkyria Chronicles
Skies of Arcadia

--VOTE INFO END--

Persona 4 Golden - One of the big reasons I bought a vita was because of the hype from this game and it lived up to it. It is such an interesting experience of social aspects and game play, along with an amazing cast. It has everything that I would want in an RPG while also talking about some interesting life issues.

Xenoblade Chronicles - Another game that I had to buy from all the hype of Operation Rainfall. I love its world and creature design especially the Bionis and Mechonis which are also intertwined creatively with the story. It gives you an interesting adventure in a world you want to explore and learn more about.

World of Warcraft - I have lost so much time to this game, so much that I may have played it more the every other game combined. I have been playing since Burning Crusade and enjoyed every moment of it. So many great moments from raiding to killing people as a zombie during an event. There is just so much to do and it is the perfect game to relax and listen to some podcast or music.

Pokemon Emerald - Pokemon is by far my favorite franchise and I have enjoyed all its games which make it tough to pick a favorite. Gen 3 is my most played gen and Emerald also introduced the Battle Frontier which is my favorite feature in any Pokemon game. It had many interesting challenges to take on. It is impressive how Pokemon is such a simple game at the surface but can provide so much if you are willing to dig deep into it.

Pokemon Soul Silver - With how much I enjoy Pokemon my list would not be complete with only one Pokemon game. Silver was my first RPG and Pokemon game so it will always hold a special place in my heart with Soul Silver being a fantastic update to the old games. With modern game play and some new features like the awesome Pokemon following you, the weird Pokeathlon and a Battle Frontier it adds lots to the jam pack game with two regions in it.

The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim - I have not finished Skyrim or even remember anything about the story other than dragons but it provides a great feeling of adventure. There is ton to do and explore and each time you set out you will find something new. It has a fun world to play around it and do whatever you want to, even if it is ignoring the main story.

Persona 5 - It is a recent game but provided another great entry for the Persona series. The handcrafted dungeons are a huge upgrade and it provides many more hours of Persona goodness. It has another great group of characters as well as an amazing style. There are not many games that can pull off that style.

Shining Force - When I was a kid I bought a CD of classic Sega games called Sega Smash Pack 2. The game that stuck with me the most was the Strategy RPG Shining Force. I had never played a game like it before and enjoyed it although I never beat it as a kid. Later I bought it on steam and finished it and greatly enjoyed it, as it stands up to the test of time.

Pokemon Mystery Dungeon: Explorers of Time - Part of the interesting world of Pokemon spin offs, with it being part of my favorite spin off series. It is an unique take on the Pokemon world as there are only Pokemon in its world. The Pokemon world works well as a dungeon explorer with many Pokemon to collect and use.

Fire Emblem Path of Radiance – Fire Emblem is a series with fantastic strategy combat. You have a large group of characters who you learn to love for both their battle style and personality. The permadeath adds an interesting element as you try to keep your favorites alive. The newer games have added to the series and are great but I prefer the more toned down style and story of the older games like Path of Radiance.

<FULL POINT GAMES – 2 points>
{HIGHLIGHT – 3 points} Persona 4 Golden
Xenoblade Chronicles
World of Warcraft
Pokemon Emerald
Pokemon Soul Silver
Skyrim
Persona 5
Shining Force
Pokemon Mystery Dungeon: Exploreers of Time
Fire Emblem Path of Radiance

< HONORABLE MENTIONS – 1 point>
Undertale
Learn Japanese To Survive – Hiragana Battle
The World Ends With You
Rune Factory 4
Shin Megami Tensei 4
Persona Q
Paper Mario and the Thousand Year Door
Tales of Xila
Persona 3
Pokemon Moon

--VOTE INFO END--

Aters said:

Yes. I usually differentiate the two series by tones. SMT has a much darker tones and it offers different routes without a clear morally "correct" one. Persona is much lighter and it offers a clear "good route".

In SMT4A, only the neutral route is worth it while the other routes are just bad endings. The tone is also a major change from everything before.

Click to expand...

They're made with a different philosophy in mind yes. However Persona 5 does take some inspiration from SMT, which is something I thought would be absent after Persona 3.

And again Apocalypse took a lot from Persona in the friendship is magic department. Of course it wouldn't be SMT if you couldn't refuse them eh.

1.Fallout 3 One of my all time favorite games, I love the blend of post apocalyptic civilization with 1950s Americana and futuristic weapons. Exploring the ruins of real world locations is a lot of fun.

2.Star Ocean The Second Story Really the stand out entry in the series, sadly most of the Star Ocean games range from mediocre to awful, but somehow they managed to completely nail it with this one. It's interesting to explore a fantasy world as a character from a more advanced civilization.

3.Persona 4 Love everything about this game, it's great learning more about different characters through social links, and I love all the different Personas you can have. Chie is still one of my favorite video game characters.

4.Lunar 2 Eternal Blue A classic RPG, filled with lots of great characters and is made more interesting by it's ties to the first Lunar game. A shame they weren't able to follow this up with another good Lunar game.

5.Earthbound A really fun wacky RPG, explore a bizarre version of the world filled with all sorts of crazy characters and enemies. The battle system that awards you an instant win if you would completely overwhelm the enemy is something I desperately wish was used more often in games.

6.Tales of Vesperia It's an interesting RPG, one of the rare JRPGS I've played where the protagonist does what he feels he has to to make things right even if it means taking lives.

7.Popolocrois A really cute lighthearted RPG, very colorful and fun to play. Still one of my favorite RPGs for the PSP.

--VOTE INFO START—

<FULL POINT GAMES – 2 points>
{HIGHLIGHT – 3 points} Fallout 3
{UNDERRATED – 4 points} Star Ocean the Second Story
Persona 4
Lunar 2 Eternal Blue
Tales of Vesperia
Earthbound
Popolocrois

<HONORABLE MENTIONS – 1 point>
Fallout New Vegas
Lunar Silver Star Story
Final Fantasy Mystic Quest

--VOTE INFO END--

Highlight - Divinity Original Sin

When Nintendo spoke of its chemistry Engine idea for Breath of the Wild in their GDC talk, part of my brain was thinking of the schemes I pulled off in that game. Another part turned to this game. Original Sin was the game for me that took ideas from the Ultima games' high level of interactivity and the classic Black Isle CRPG style choice making freedom and modernized both in Larian's magical pot. The combat, needless to say, is some of the strongest I've played in a while even among non turned based games boasting both highly enjoyable mechanics and environment interaction and generally great encounter design to take advantage of them. It was exciting to just poke and prod the world especially in Co-op. While the world didn't really take itself seriously enough when it probably should have, it was inoffensive and gave way to the high-level interactions which were the star of the show for me. Going by reactions to Original Sin 2, Larian could not have made a more exciting base to make a sequel on.

Xenoblade Chronicles

Takahashi's games for me are...inconsistent shall we say but no less thoughtful. They present the scale of each of their universes in all its beauty, wonder. complexity and terror. It was with Xenosaga 3 that I felt that Monolith Soft began to come into its own as a top class developer and the quick punch of Baten Kaitos Origins seemed to solidify but it took awhile to get their next game here in the states. But arrive it did and the previously named Monado: Beginning of the World became Xenoblade Chronicles. The game is brimming with Charisma and earnestness, the game's cast is one of my favorites in a JRPG because they bounce off each other like Volleyballs. The world design was surprisingly strong in general, area after area was rife with its own atmosphere and personality bolstered by an excellent score by previously unknown composers (to me) in ACE+ and Manami Kiyota and a couple legends in Yoko Shimomura and a submission from Yasunori Mitsuda. The gameplay while not my favorite in an RPG and in general I find too simple nowadays is still good for its place in the whole of the game, if there was no future sight mechanic or monado arts, the story would lose a good bit of flavor. At the end of the day, I look upon this game and smile, because being in the world of Bionis and Mechonis just made me happy, it was the game for the right place and time.

Planescape Torment

I don't have that many words to say about this game other than I love when it opens its mouth and talks. Just play it.

Underrated - Fire Emblem: Thracia 776

Thracia 776 is cruel, mean and a real pain in the ass at times. But damn if it isn't fun. The story is dark and relentless, the enemies and setups are aptly designed to test you (and sometimes your patience, damn you Xavier). You get a ton of tools to play with though, it introduced fog of war and fully completing this monster of a game was one of the most satisfying SRPGs I've ever played.

Baten Kaitos Origins

Yasuyuki Honne's Masterpiece and the game that elevated Koh Kojima to his current director status at Monolith Soft. The card-based combat is relentless, speedy and demanding. The tight cast is so loveable and the way that it plays off events from the chronological sequel is filled with many strokes of genius. And of course, the backgrounds are to die for as expected from Honne.

Full point games:

The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt - HIGHLIGHT

Picking the highlight was really easy for me. I've been following The Witcher series since day one and it has been incredible to see just how much CD Projekt RED improved with each installment of the series, culminating in TW3. I love almost everything about this game. I love the world, I love the characters, I love the atmosphere, I love the soundtrack, I love how the sidequests feel like meaningful content and not like filler in many other open world RPGs... It was simply an amazing experience. Sure, the combat is a bit too simple and the controls are bit janky, but as a complete package, The Witcher 3 is unrivaled for me. Can't wait to see if CDPR can top themselves again.

Gothic 2 - UNDERRATED

One of the first open world RPGs where the world actually felt like a living, breathing place and not just a virtual playground. The world is huge, yet hand-crafted and a joy to explore. The combat is tough and rewarding. The guild system greatly incentives multiple playthroughs. On top of that, the game was made even better with the Night of the Raven expansion, which introduced a brand new, amazing region of the world and tied up a lot of loose ends from the first Gothic game. Piranha Bytes' masterpiece, which probably won't ever be topped by them.

Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic

Both Bioware's best game and the best Star Wars game. It captured the spirit of Star Wars perfectly, the story was epic in the true sense of the word, the light/dark side alignment system was amazingly fun and allowed you to truly live out your Star Wars related nerd fantasies. A game so good, Bioware has been using its formula ever since.

Dark Souls: Prepare to Die Edition

Plenty was said about Dark Souls already, so I'll just mentions the stand out things that make it such a special game for me: the insanely atmospheric, dangerous and meticulously hand-crafted world, where death awaits at every corner and which is just super enthralling to explore; the subtle storytelling that doesn't throw the story in your face, but leaves you to make your own discoveries and interpretations; the absence of all handholding that makes discovering the game's mechanics so much more fun; and the difficulty that can be a little bit frustrating, but all the more rewarding when you finally get past the obstacles in your way.

Pokémon Heart Gold/Soul Silver

Definitely my favorite Pokémon titles. Gold/Silver were already great and these remakes polished them to be even greater. Two regions, my favorite Pokémon designs, the best graphic style in the entire franchise, and the classic great Pokémon gameplay loop. The only real problem I have with HG/SS is the terrible Pokémon distribution that leaves you underleveled for most of the game and doesn't allow you to play with some of the cooler Gen2 Pokémon until the very late game.

Fallout: New Vegas

I was torn whether to give this spot to Fallout 2 or New Vegas. I adore both, but in the end I decided I like NV a bit more. Obsidian took Bethesda's extremely flawed (but still kinda fun) Fallout 3, fixed a lot of issues I had with it and created a game that I have no problem calling a true successor to Fallout 2. It's a game that's more interested in presenting a compelling vision of a society that's slowly rebuilding itself after the apocalypse, rather than a game that's mostly interested in giving the player many different ways to make supermutant heads explode in a post-apocalyptic themed amusement park. The difference in writing quality between NV and F3 is just immense. We all know the game was notoriously buggy at launch, but with both Obsidian's and community patches, that's mostly fixed by now and NV can finally shine like it was always meant to.

System Shock 2

"Sublime" is the word I would use to describe SS2. It's like a perfect machine - everything contributes to the immaculately polished whole and nothing is superfluous. It's not the best FPS or the best RPG you've ever played, but all of the parts just work together so well. Right from the first steps I took on Von Braun, I knew I was playing something special. Unmatched atmosphere that will just suck you in. If you can't forgive the game the dated graphics, of course.

Planescape: Torment

Probably the best written RPG I've ever played. Yes, the combat sucks, but who cares, when you're presented with such a fascinating world like nothing you've ever seen in a video game, an amazing cast of bizarre characters that truly feels alive, and so many weird and interesting ideas that could fill several books. Truly a unique game that can hardly be replicated, as evidenced by Tides of Numenera.

Divinity: Original Sin 2

Yeah, I haven't finished the game, but 70 hours in, I'm very confident in putting this in my top 10. The first DOS was great, but this is just something else. There's just so much freedom &#8211; where other RPGs would slap your hand and tell you you're not allowed to experiment outside of what the designers intended, Divinity gives you a hammer and tells you to smash stuff. Or build stuff, if you're so inclined. There's so many moments where you wonder if you could could do something and you're met with a resounding "yes!". Yes, you can kill a man in a packed inn by creating a water puddle, poisoning that puddle and letting him die while you're safely somewhere else. Yes, you can kill him by initiating a bar brawl with other characters. Yes, you can give him tainted stew and kill him on the way from the outhouse. Or you could just do something else, anything else. Almost every quest can be solved in a multitude of ways, intended or not, the game is so packed full of content you probably won't ever see all of it and on top of that, the story is actually interesting and full of well written characters this time!

Shin Megami Tensei: Persona 4

It's a weird pick for this list, but it's a game I truly adore. I don't play many JRPGs at all, but I just wanted to see what all the hype for the Persona series was about and I was immediately hooked. The cast of characters is super likeable, the setting was a great change of pace from the traditional sci-fi/fantasy RPGs and the soundtrack has quickly became one of my favorite video game OSTs of all time. The combat and dungeon crawling got a bit monotonous near the end, but that doesn't make one of my favorite gaming experiences in recent memory that much worse.

Honorable mentions:

Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords

I feel this game at least deserves a mention since I nominated the first KotOR for the top 10. Back when it first released, I really didn't like it very much, but it has grown on me a lot since then. It's possibly one of the most interesting Star Wars stories ever told and it isn't afraid of challenging your expectations at all. Shame it was so unfinished when it came out, but the Restoration Mod helped a lot to alleviate that issue.

Mass Effect 2

Probably the least RPG-ish game on my list, but I can't really deny it the nomination. It dumbed down the RPG system of the first game somewhat, but it more than made up for it with the revamped combat. My favorite cast of characters from all the Bioware games, an engrossing world and one of the best final missions in any video game ever.

Might and Magic VI: The Mandate of Heaven

Huge, varied world with dozens of unique and large dungeons, all of which have their own tilesets and enemies. The story kind of sucks, but the world is just so entertaining to explore. It's just pure fun to play casually, one dungeon at a time.

Dragon's Dogma: Dark Arisen

Super fun combat system, surprisingly deep class system. Creating your own pawn and renting it to other players was a really interesting mechanic. The original game was a bit too easy, but Bitterblack Isle was a really solid chunk of dungeon delving goodness.

Vampire: The Masquerade &#8211; Bloodlines

Amazingly atmospheric with a legendary amount of bugs, but with Unofficial Patch, it's hard not to recommend. The different vampire clans make for a great replay value.

Legend of Grimrock 2

A bit overlooked dungeon crawler. Superior in almost every way to the already great first Grimrock, it follows the classic sequel formula of "add more stuff everywhere" and does it really well. Really addictive, there's always something interesting behind every corner, there's always a puzzle that you don't wanna leave unsolved until the next session, there's always that square of the map that you haven't been to.

Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn

A true classic. I don't adore it as much as others do, but it's a really solid RPG that's packed full of interesting content.

Fallout 2

Another true classic. As I already mentioned in my FNV writeup, I adore this game, but I didn't want to have multiple of the same franchise in the top 10 and I just like FNV a bit more.

The Age of Decadence

Age of Decadence is unrivaled in its choices and consequences and story branching, is set in a very interesting setting of post-apocalyptic not!Roman Empire and offers you an entirely different experience every time you play it... and also it's ugly as sin, basically hates you, the player, and fucks you over at any opportunity, whether in combat or dialogue. I understand that it's a deliberate choice by the developers to make the world feel dangerous and make you want to avoid combat as much as possible, but it makes it really hard to recommend to anyone who isn't a hardcore CRPG player. A shame, because I really like the game, but I don't know many people who would feel the same way.

The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind

Bethesda should get at least one nod in this list, right? I think Morrowind deserves it. It's still their best game &#8211; simply super immersive, doesn't hold your hand at all and Vvardenfell with its mushroom trees is one of the most memorable RPG worlds I've ever seen.

--VOTE INFO START--

<FULL POINT GAMES &#8211; 2 points>
{HIGHLIGHT &#8211; 3 points} The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt
{UNDERRATED &#8211; 4 points} Gothic 2
Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic
Dark Souls: Prepare to Die Edition
Pokémon Heart Gold/Soul Silver
Fallout: New Vegas
System Shock 2
Planescape: Torment
Divinity: Original Sin 2
Persona 4

<HONORABLE MENTIONS &#8211; 1 point>
Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords
Mass Effect 2
Might and Magic VI: The Mandate of Heaven
Dragon's Dogma: Dark Arisen
Vampire: The Masquerade &#8211; Bloodlines
Legend of Grimrock 2
Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn
Fallout 2
The Age of Decadence
The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind

--VOTE INFO END--

1. Demon's Souls - The original is still the best. Obtuse and strange but oh so rewarding once it clicks.
2. The Legend of Zelda - The essential game for bored kids with an NES. There's so much to discover (but super hidden), but I don't know how well it would work today with so many choices available.
3. Bloodborne - Changes up the original formula enough, and pushes it more towards action, which is a-ok for me (as long as the combat is great).
4. Dark Souls - Once again similar, but different to an amazing foundation set by Demon's Souls.
5. South Park: The Stick of Truth - A South Park game has no right to be this good, but I guess quality takes (a long) time.
6. Zelda II: The Adventure of Link - I played this only a few years ago after hearing some negative things about it. Luckily, those people were wrong.
7. Dragon's Dogma - Combat and exploration was great. The world was just the right size.
8. System Shock 2
9. The Legend of Zelda: The Minish Cap
10. The Witcher 2: Assasins of Kings

--VOTE INFO START—

<FULL POINT GAMES – 2 points>
{HIGHLIGHT – 3 points} Demon's Souls
{UNDERRATED – 4 points} Zelda II: The Adventure of Link
The Legend of Zelda
Bloodborne
Dark Souls
South Park: The Stick of Truth
Dragon's Dogma
System Shock 2
The Legend of Zelda: The Minish Cap
The Witcher 2: Assasins of Kings

--VOTE INFO END--

Phew. So when I decided to make this post, I thought I was never going to use up all 20 spots. But in the end, I don't think 20 was even enough. I wanted to put 2 or 3 in each of my highlighted and underrated spots

Edit: I already bought Cosmic Star Heroine so I would just end up needing to give a key away if I won one - it can be given to others perhaps. The reason it's not on my list is I haven't played it yet

Highlighted - Fallout 2
I often say, in person, that FF6 is my favorite game, but I think that has lost it's spot to Fallout 2 over the years. Fallout 2 is one of the quintessential games for me. The writing is superb, the game also gives you the story experience differently than just reading a book or watching a show would have, which to me is important in games. The depth of choices and freedom of play are rarely matched even in "modern" bigger games. I've done complete play throughs at least 6 or 7 times, along with some partial ones, and I never saw everything the game had to offer.

Underrated - Jeanne D'Arc
Not sure if underrated or just too unknown, but when I played it on the PSP I was quite surprised to find my favorite TRPG since Final Fantasy Tactics. It's a different style to be sure, but the gameplay was fun and the writing was competent and the fights were hard but strategy could carry the day.

Full Point Games
A lot of these are interchangeable as far as positioning goes, or very not interchangeable as far as gameplay and style are concerned.

Final Fantasy Tactics
This is the tactics / strategy RPG for me. I played a lot of ones before and after, but I'm always disappointed that they don't scratch that itch that FFT created and sometimes soothes. It's not the perfect game, regardless of which version you play, and the plot is sort of "fill in the blanks to make it mean what you want it to mean", but I don't mind that and the core of the game is just so fun for me. The classes, skills, combinations, the battlefield, the desperately trying to work out turn order to save your front line (or back line), until you finally figure the game out and have farmed forever and proceed to make random battles your stomping grounds of epic skills and spells. One of my most replayed games.

Final Fantasy 6
Once my #1 game ever, I don't think I like it less so much as competition has gotten too intense. The writing and characters still rate as my #1 I'm pretty sure, and one of my favorite villains. It did a lot of things with the world and characters that hasn't really been duplicated in many games I've played. It's not really dated, it's still a pretty classic JRPG game with distinctive sprites.

Baldur's Gate 2
Not quite as open and deep as Fallout 2, but again excellent writing and world building and some solid game play, albeit janky at times, holds it all together. Aside from the combat maybe not being for everyone, the only negative it has is you lose out on a lot of the quality if you want to use your own characters for your party instead of the written companions.

Fallout: New Vegas
Just about everyone's favorite 3D Fallout, and while I do enjoy the others, I have to agree that it probably is the closest to Fallout 2 in depth of written and the world. The mod-ability of it is a contributing factor for me as well, in addition to being helpful to get rid of some of the rough edges from the game.

Chrono Trigger
I'm not sure what I can say about this game that hasn't been said before. The whole thing is just superbly well done and tightly held together. The ability to replay the game so many different ways was mind blowing when it came out and is still pretty fun.

Dark Messiah of Might & Magic
This was going to be my underrated pick until I remembered Jeanne, and Dark Messiah probably doesn't fall into as many people's definitions of an RPG. But it's probably the most fun first-person RPG mechanically I can think of, and the "RPG" elements in the skills matter a lot. The difference between the mage, thief, and fighter styles in playing the game makes each replay feel fairly different. And of course, the kicking... never forget to kick.

Hyper Light Drifter
Another sort-of-RPG but one of my all-time favorite games pretty much as soon as I started it. The style, tone, and feel of the game are perfect for me. The top-down fast and twitchy combat is a lot of fun when you get the flow going, and there's a lot of secrets to discover.

Secret of Mana
I've never really played another game that captured the feeling SoM gave me and my friends playing with a multi-tap on the SNES. It has some of the best boss fights (and boss music) ever plus a really unique (at the time) game system.

--VOTE INFO START&#8212;

<FULL POINT GAMES &#8211; 2 points>
{HIGHLIGHT &#8211; 3 points} Fallout 2
{UNDERRATED &#8211; 4 points} Jeanne D'Arc
Final Fantasy Tactics
Final Fantasy 6
Baldur's Gate 2
Fallout: New Vegas
Chrono Trigger
Dark Messiah of Might & Magic
Hyper Light Drifter
Secret of Mana

<HONORABLE MENTIONS &#8211; 1 point>
Final Fantasy 7
The Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim
Breath of Fire
Voidspire Tactics
Mass Effect
Parasite Eve
Transistor
Shining Force 2
South Park: The Stick of Truth
Fallout 4

--VOTE INFO END--

Some of my favourite gameplay experiences:

Temple of Elemental Evil: when released, this game was bug infested but me and my bro loved it. It didn't have much of a story either but what it did offer was an amazingly visceral and satisfying combat system. ToEE might not be for everyone; it's one of my gaming highlights though.

Anachronox: Labelled as a western take on the JRPG genre, this was one of the few Ion Storm titles that came out flying. Great cast, great writing, some very interesting twists on the JRPG combat system, and you have an-all around must-play game!

Planescape Torment: Used to be an unknown title but has recently received some well-deserved visibility and re-releases. If you have an iPad, give it a go. It's quite possibly the best written game I have played. The gameplay also favours speech skills over combat, and combined with the characters, offers an extraordinary journey into a world unlike any before, or hence. "What can change the nature of man?"

Vampire the Masquerade: Modern day setting. Vampire role-play. Meticulously crafted world and quests. Great combat and dialog. Must-play.

Alpha Protocol: Spy RPG! Excellent gameplay mechanics wherein your choices actually matter down the line. Good combat and a pretty good character path make-your-own-spy. It's the combination of all these elements that make it a title worth experiencing.

After a busy weekend, I finally have time to sit down and examine the game icon issue again.

For those who didn't read the discussion a page or two back, the final aggregate list will have a banner for each game that follows this model:




The four icons visible in the top right are suppose to convey some information about the game mechanics of each title. So far I have decided on, and created 3 sets of icons:

Playable Character Control



Description of icons (left to right)
=> Single playable character (this will include games that give you helper characters like New Vegas)
=> Active control over one character, and computer scripting for the rest. The difference between this and Single PC is that you can choose to actively control any character in the party.
=> Full control over all party actions (unless you choose autobattle).


Battle Flow/Combat System



Description of icons (left to right)
=> Real-time
=> Real-time with Pause
=> Optional Real-time or Turn-based (Might and Magic VI for example)
=> Active Time Battle (mostly Final Fantasy and Chrono Trigger. Some others)
=> Turn-based


Consequence of Choice to Story Narrative <- Thanks to FiveSide for the general idea



Description of icons (left to right)
=> No meaningful choice. There might be some optional side quests, but nothing with a significant impact on the story. Final Fantasy X or most Pokemon games would fit here.
=> Some choice, but the main narrative is mostly fixed. This will include games with significant optional characters (Final Fantasy VII, Suikoden), games that have a ton of optional content, but a mostly fixed main scenario (Skyrim, Fantasy Life), and illusion of choice games, where you pick one of two or three paths with basically the same outcome (Mass Effect).
=> Significant choice. Several possible endings, some of which are radically different in terms of content and timing. What you choose to do in the game significantly affects your experience (Age of Decadence, a lot of classic computer RPGs, I'd count Chrono Trigger here as well).



I still have one icon undefined. I have also been given more than one good/useful idea of what could be included. I COULD resize the banner a bit to give another column of icons to the left of the Trivia box, but I am worried that things will start to look cluttered, and that we will move into information overload territory.

Opinions?

Nice work on the three icons.

For the fourth, I suggest having it describe how character customization works. Can you create your character or team from the start like in Etrian Odyssey or Elder Scrolls, or are they given to you when you advance the plot as in Final Fantasy games? And how much leeway does the game give you in terms of builds? Can you choose what your protagonist specializes in and what skills they can use like in Pokemon? Or are you using what the game gives you like in Earthbound?

kswiston said:

Consequence of Choice to Story Narrative <- Thanks to FiveSide for the general idea

Description of icons (left to right)
=> No meaningful choice. There might be some optional side quests, but nothing with a significant impact on the story. Final Fantasy X or most Pokemon games would fit here.
=> Some choice, but the main narrative is mostly fixed. This will include games with significant optional characters (Final Fantasy VII, Suikoden), games that have a ton of optional content, but a mostly fixed main scenario (Skyrim, Fantasy Life), and illusion of choice games, where you pick one of two or three paths with basically the same outcome (Mass Effect).
=> Significant choice. Several possible endings, some of which are radically different in terms of content and timing. What you choose to do in the game significantly affects your experience (Age of Decadence, a lot of classic computer RPGs, I'd count Chrono Trigger here as well).

Click to expand...

I think this is good, but I'd stick CT in the middle category - the bulk of the game is very linear with just some optional quests near the end & a couple important choices that determine your ending. Although the game has several endings, most of those are just fun easter eggs that you unlock in NG+ by defeating the final boss early and don't have any effect on the main narrative.

I don't feel like I have the time to do a proper full list justice. However, I did want to at least make the attempt:

Highlight: Baldur's Gate 2: Shadows of Amn

BG2: SoA is as close to perfection as we'll ever get in a CRPG. Building on the scaffolding placed on it by BG1, Bioware was able to pour energy into huge campaign, expanded systems for mid to high level PC's and a narrative, that, together with it's expansion pack bring a satisfying conclusion to the Bhaalspawn saga. Many RPG's boast hours played as a badge, but BG2: SoA fills every hour of that 200+ saga with unique content. The main quest will have you scouring the underground, battling theives and vampires, heading deep underground, and to far off waters. The side quests will have you braving pocket dimensions, visiting the circus, heading out to ramparts near and far. Every hour is unique, unforgettable and, even more surprisingly, missable. The game respects the choices that you make and allows you the freedom to explore (or not to explore).

Underrated: Neverwinter Night 2: Mask of the Betrayer

Mask of the Betrayer has a steadily improved from cult classic to quiet underdog, and similarly I've grown to appreciate it as, in my opinion, the best written video game of all time (yes, even better than PS:T). Both of these games use games as a lens to explore the human condition. But Mask, unlike Torment, is more thematically consistent.

Planescape:Torment

Planescape: Torment is another example of an RPG with a decent story. Why? Because it a) has a thesis b) designs it's world around exploring that thesis, and c) it tries it's best to eludicate a fundamental truth based on that thesis. The grandaddy of all "games with good stories," PS:T is still hearalded as one of the very few that have done it right.

Chrono Trigger:

The greatest JRPG ever made. Chrono Trigger takes the best aspects of the JRPG (great story, interesting characters, fun battle system) and discards all the tedium. What truly stands out about it though is it's innovative approach to the end game -- replaying the game leads to significant differences based upon when you approach the endgame, rather than how.

Shadowrun: Dragonfall DC

Dragonfall has a gripping overall narrative, but it's main strength lies in it's character interactions. A noir mystery at heart, SR: DF really gives you the sense that you're living in some sort of retro Neo Berlin -- one where the 80's never ended... but then it did, and it's 2025.

Pillars of Eternity

Much can be said about Pillar's shortcomings -- it's not as well developed as BGII. It's narrative can be overly passive, and it's payoff seems rather hamfisted and in some ways, imitates BG. But, Pillars succeeds in building a believable world, one unencumbered by previous incarnations and the petty politics that come with making a world tied to a preexisting property. And with the 2nd one coming out next year, it seems like a perfect time to revisit the world in preparation for the new entry into this series.

Diablo 2

Diablo 2 didn't start the ARPG genre, it just became the model from which all ARPG's are now compared to. As it's paragon, everything is inspired by, and serves under it's shadow. And I hate to say it, but even after so long, it's still the best the genre has to offer. It gives you endless customization without being overwhelming. It's combat is precise and satisfying, and well, the loot -- well, it's still the best in the biz.

Many games have come, gone, and a few have stayed. But D2 seems like the eternal king of the ARPG genre.

Dark Souls

There is no doubt that Dark Souls, much like Diablo 2, has inspired a brand of action RPG that will last for generations to come. The first game, which was designed before the series became a breakout, is still the best example of what it's all supposed to be about -- an explorable world, with many secrets, and deliberate combat with a high level of difficulty.

World of Warcraft

It's hard to recommend WoW in it's current state. It's a great game, and I had a ton of fun playing it. But, because WoW exists as a game as a service so much of it has changed from the original incarnation. Fundamentally, WoW is one of the best examples of "living, breathing world" that there is. The massive continents are packed with things to do, people to see, dungeons to delve.. as well as a million more mundane but interesting tasks. That's all still there, but at the same time, it's not -- anymore. It's the best example of a game where you really ought to have been there.

Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines

Great atmosphere -- awesome characterization -- and a system that encouraged you to really roleplay your character, with significant differences between any given created character.

Honorable Mentions:

Honorable mentions remains a hodgepoge of excellent RPG's from a variety of different sources. From the Brilliant dialogue of Alpha Protocol, to the greatest Star Wars story ever told (KOTOR 2), these games exhibit the best of the genre.

At the same time, many of these games are very different, Super Mario RPG can be considered fairly simplistic compared to every other game on the list, but gets the nod because of how willing it was to both upheave traditional thoughts about how a mario game should be played while also staying true to the spirit of the characters in it. Many of these games are also flawed gems, with quite a few of them being, at the very least, considered, technically challenged games (at least on release). This, in my mind, at least, proves that ambition is better than being technically accomplished, at least when it comes to RPG's. It's better to have an Arcanum, flawed and broken as it was on release, than it is to have an uninspired, flaccid, game. One has the potential for greatness to shine through, while the other is destined for obscurity.

--VOTE INFO START—

<FULL POINT GAMES – 2 points>
{HIGHLIGHT – 3 points} Baldur's Gate 2: Shadows of Amn
{UNDERRATED – 4 points} Neverwinter Nights 2: Mask of the Betrayer
Planescape: Torment
Chrono Trigger
Shadowrun: Dragonfall DC
Pillars of Eternity
Diablo 2
Dark Souls
World of Warcraft
Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines

<HONORABLE MENTIONS – 1 point>
Alpha Protocol
Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars
Tyranny
Temple of Elemental Evil
Radiant Historia
Fallout: New Vegas
Dues Ex
Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magick Obscura
Tales of Symphonia
Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords

--VOTE INFO END--

Flying Fish said:

Nice work on the three icons.

For the fourth, I suggest having it describe how character customization works. Can you create your character or team from the start like in Etrian Odyssey or Elder Scrolls, or are they given to you when you advance the plot as in Final Fantasy games? And how much leeway does the game give you in terms of builds? Can you choose what your protagonist specializes in and what skills they can use like in Pokemon? Or are you using what the game gives you like in Earthbound?

Click to expand...

I think this is a good category to know, but it's hard to represent simply for sure. Like, for FF6, you have set characters you get as the story goes on and each has their "locked in" special abilities, but then some characters are optional later on and with gear and Esper choices you can make almost any characters fill any role. Compare that to say Baldur's Gate, where you can have a party completely created of your own or one where only the main character is yours and you find companions as you go and swap them out etc.... even though character customization is pretty much in every RPG, the minutiae is crazy varied.

So to keep it as simple as possible, I guess the high level questions are:

• Can you create your own character
• Are characters locked into roles
• Does the roster change as you progress
• (optional) can you end up totally boning yourself with customization (looking at you, FFT)

For LV-Up system complexity, you could just break it up into 4 ranks.

Minimal - For games where character progression are rather linear (FF4 is a good example as are DQ1,2, and 4).

Moderate - Fixed with some customization options (stuff like FF6 & 7 with Materia/Espers are a good example).

Heavy - Build your own party or blank slate characters (I'd put stuff like the Etrian Odyssey series & FF5 in here).

Extreme - Your typical old-school PC RPG where you spend 3 hours custom-building your party at the start of the game. Also Path of Exile.

EDIT: Changed "Crazy" to "Extreme" since crazy has some negative connotations.

Epic Battle Fantasy 4 - Back before Final Fantasy games were a thing on Steam I played this little gem and really loved it. It got turn based fighting, nice music and humour!

Tales of Symphonia - This was my first Tales of games. Being an European I imported the US version of the game and was only able to play it with Freeloader.

Secret of Mana - My all time favourite JRPG game and also the game that introduced me to wonderful world that can exist in a game. Waiting for the remake

The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past - I cannot remember how many hours I have put into this game. I have beaten this game several time with everything found, except that I never listed on how to get more than 30 bombs/arrows.

Lufia II: Rise of the Sinistrals - This is probably the best game in the series, and even got monster training

Chrono Trigger - I love everything in this game, the music, the story and the battle where multiple characters can combine their move into stronger attacks.

Hyperdimension Neptunia Re;Birth1 - It's Nep Nep! Can't tell much more because it's Nep Nep

Vagrant Story - I believe this is game where it introduced crafting without me realizing it. Back at the day where Internet weren't as available as today I tried to craft the best weapons I could without guides

Ys Origin - Today there are so many complex RPG games. Ys Origin is very simple game, just hack and slash through the tower to beat the game. Just simple as that!

Star Ocean: Till the End of Time - I don't know why, but this game made me realize that I like action RPGs more than turn based RPGs.

--VOTE INFO START—

<FULL POINT GAMES – 2 points>
{HIGHLIGHT – 3 points} Secret of Mana
{UNDERRATED – 4 points} Star Ocean: Till the End of Time
Epic Battle Fantasy 4
Tales of Symphonia
The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
Lufia II: Rise of the Sinistrals
Chrono Trigger
Hyperdimension Neptunia Re;Birth1
Vagrant Story
Ys Origin

<HONORABLE MENTIONS – 1 point>
Final Fantasy V
Final Fantasy VI
The Witcher
Final Fantasy VII
Half Minute Hero: Super Mega Neo Climax Ultimate Boy
Diablo II
Illusion of Time
Seiken Densetsu 3
Grandia
Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door

--VOTE INFO END--

Robert at Zeboyd Games said:

For LV-Up system complexity, you could just break it up into 4 ranks.

Minimal - For games where character progression are rather linear (FF4 is a good example as are DQ1,2, and 4).

Moderate - Fixed with some customization options (stuff like FF6 & 7 with Materia/Espers are a good example).

Heavy - Build your own party or blank slate characters (I'd put stuff like the Etrian Odyssey series & FF5 in here).

Crazy - Your typical old-school PC RPG where you spend 3 hours custom-building your party at the start of the game. Also Path of Exile.

Click to expand...

I think this is the best suggestion so far. Some of the other suggestions for lvl up systems were a bit too specific, so they had a few games that wouldn't quite fit in, but this covers everything and seems descriptive enough.

kswiston said:

Opinions?

Click to expand...

One thing that I would find nice, even though I have no idea if this is doable, as it's hard to differentiate, is to indicate if the game is rather gameplay heavy, or story heavy.
Especially when considering which game to play next, I sometimes just want a game where I'll be challenged in battles to optimize my party setup as much as possible / git gud, or on the contrary, I'll want to explore a wonderfull story without minding all the battle stuff too much. It could justy be a small icon over the rreleasde date, so that you don't have to add another row of icons.
However, as I said, no sure it'd really work, as there are quite a lot of games that offers both (and that's usually the marks of great RPGs), or that some people lioke because of the story, others because of the gameplay...

Robert at Zeboyd Games said:

For LV-Up system complexity, you could just break it up into 4 ranks.

Minimal - For games where character progression are rather linear (FF4 is a good example as are DQ1,2, and 4).

Moderate - Fixed with some customization options (stuff like FF6 & 7 with Materia/Espers are a good example).

Heavy - Build your own party or blank slate characters (I'd put stuff like the Etrian Odyssey series & FF5 in here).

Extreme - Your typical old-school PC RPG where you spend 3 hours custom-building your party at the start of the game. Also Path of Exile.

EDIT: Changed "Crazy" to "Extreme" since crazy has some negative connotations.

Click to expand...

This seems like a much better idea.

Jisgsaw said:

So quick question: must your "underrated on GAF" pick be a full point game?

Click to expand...

Anyone?

<FULL POINT GAMES – 2 points>

Click to expand...

{HIGHLIGHT – 3 points} Final Fantasy IX
My personal favorite Final Fantasy in the series. Like all of the series it has it's flaws, but the positives certainly outweigh them. The characters are very charming and the combat is unique thanks to the ability learning system in which you acquire abilities after wearing specific armor through a certain number of victories. The game also features amazing backdrops behind the not so beautifully 3D models of the characters. Some of the flaws are taken care of (to an extent at least) through the newer Steam and PS4 versions of the game. What are you waiting for? It's time to start jumping rope, catching frogs, and collecting cards!

Click to expand...

{UNDERRATED – 4 points} TERA
The combat in this game is the best I've experienced in an MMO to date. The story isn't spectacular, and questing is about as boring as WoW or other similar systems and leveling is a grind, but the combat helps to alleviate those factors. The pvp isn't particularly interesting but it is rather fun due to the complement of the combat system. The world is amusing to explore, and there's plenty to be done between crafting or hunting BAM's.

Click to expand...

Bastion
Bastion is beautiful. It shines through with it's simplistic design with amazing music and wonderful art. It also helps that it's easy to mod some of the values in the game which allows you to things like run through the game with an unlimited clip repeated that shoots at 3 times the typical speed.

Click to expand...

Fallout 3
Whether you want to collect teddybears for your Megaton house, make your way through the swamps of Point Lookout, or waltz around slicing and dicing Mole Rats while listening to your Pip Boy radio, Fallout 3 has a lot to offer. Think you've finished all the content the game has to offer? I guess it's a good thing there is a wide selection of mod support to continue your escapade through the wasteland.

Click to expand...

Golden Sun: The Lost Age
Great turn based combat, and interesting exploration both through the use of Djinn, elemental beings that allow you to manipulate your environment and summon spirits to attack your opponents.

Click to expand...

Kingdom Hearts: Birth By Sleep
Despite the weaknesses of the psp's controls, Birth By Sleep manages to have my favorite combat in the series. Add on top the typical crazy story line you'd imagine from a Kingdom Hearts game and you have yourself a few dozen hours of enjoyment ahead.

Click to expand...

Kingdom Under Fire:The Crusaders
This game combines hack and slash combat with real time strategy mechanics for the overarching battle and makes for an awesome experience. You'll play through the campaign battling on different fields for different objectives trying to maneuver your troops efficiently while also throwing your hero into the battle so they can add another notch to their belt. As you progress your troops will level, and you will upgrade the towns and camps in order to unlock new unit types, weapons, etc. While this game may not come to mind as such, it's RPG elements certainly add a lot to what might otherwise become a stale experience very quickly.

Click to expand...

Paper Mario
I know, I know, you've already saved the princess right? Wrong, it's time to do it again but this time in paper form with turn based combat. Through the game you'll collect different items to change up the combat drastically as you explore an adorable world with new allies at every turn to help you on your quest to save the princess.

Click to expand...

Stardew Valley
I've always enjoyed Harvest Moon and Rune Factory, but Stardew Valley improves on these farming simulators to craft an addictive experience that will have you saying "just one more day" as you progress through the different seasons of this world filled with wonderful characters, charming graphics and plenty to do.

Click to expand...

The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion
Without even getting into the ridiculous amounts of mods for this game there is a vast amount of content to explore. Hack your way to the top of the fighters guild, sneak your way through the thieves guild, or simply work on your enchantments as you watch the world around after slinging spells up the mages guild.




<HONORABLE MENTIONS – 1 point>

Click to expand...

Bloodborne
Great combat, interesting weapons, lore and monster design.

Click to expand...

Digimon World
Train your Digimon and explore the world bringing back life to a town. Train your digimon and hatch those eggs to fill out your digievolution data.

Click to expand...

Dragon Ball Z: Legacy of Goku I & II
Want to fly around yelling Kamehameha? Well I certainly did when I played through this GBA game back in 2002. Maybe not the best RPG, but it was certainly more compelling to me than the plethora of fighting games that take place in the DBZ universe and it certainly helped fill the long car rides during my childhood.

Click to expand...

Fantasy Life
Craft, Fight, and Explore with a wide selection of classes through this adorable world. Bring a friend if you want!

Click to expand...

Final Fantasy VI
My favorite 2D Final Fantasy ever since I played it on my SNES as a kid. If you're itching for a turn based game, this won't dissapoint.

Click to expand...

Monster Rancher 2
Ah, the past time of using your sisters cd's to try and get new monsters to raise. Pop in a cd, get a monster, and combine it with one you already have. When you're happy with the result start training your monster to compete, earn prizes and start the cycle anew.

Click to expand...

Phantasy Star Online: Episode I & II
A great experience to have on the GameCube, though it doesn't hold up quite as well as memory might serve. That being said, the game is still awesome and maybe one day PSO2 will come to the US, maybe even at the same time as Half-Life 3.

Click to expand...

Tactics Ogre
It's a juggle between this and Final Fantasy Tactics for me when it comes to Tactical RPG's. Both are great, though the combat can be a bit slow for today's standards. It doesn't matter though cause I sank plenty of time into both during my childhood when I could have been doing something like showing up to school instead. Whichever I was playing I always had a blast and they make easy recommendations for great tactical RPG's.

Click to expand...

The Legend of Dragoon
Like turn based combat and dragons? This just might be the game for you.

Click to expand...

The Legend of Zelda: A Link Between Worlds
2D Zelda games hold a close place in my heart, and TLoZ:ALBW hit the nail on the head for me. Perhaps that's because it's basically a remake of A Link to the Past, but I'll still take it with the fun combat, dungeons, and not so aged graphics.


--VOTE INFO START—

<FULL POINT GAMES – 2 points>
{HIGHLIGHT – 3 points} Final Fantasy IX
{UNDERRATED – 4 points} TERA
Bastion
Fallout 3
Golden Sun: The Lost Age
Kingdom Hearts: Birth By Sleep
Kingdom Under Fire:The Crusaders
Paper Mario
Stardew Valley
The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion

<HONORABLE MENTIONS – 1 point>
Bloodborne
Digimon World
Dragon Ball Z: Legacy of Goku I & II
Fantasy Life
Final Fantasy VI
Monster Rancher 2
Phantasy Star Online: Episode I & II
Tactics Ogre
The Legend of Dragoon
The Legend of Zelda: A Link Between Worlds

--VOTE INFO END--

Edit: Thanks for the Cosmic Star Heroine key!

Jisgsaw said:

Anyone?

Click to expand...

The highlight and underrated votes have to be used on full point games.

Also, you can't dip into honorable mentions until you have 10 full point games. A few people did that, but if they don't add more games, I will just count their HMs as full point votes.

I want to limit vote point manipulation. Max points per ballot are 33. Min points per ballot are 10 (not counting lazy votes that are worth 5).

Using the special votes on HMs would effectively give you more full point votes. Hence it not being allowed.

Amazing writeups, everyone. I, on the other hand, am not a very creative person, so here goes:



The RPG masterpiece. Play as Geralt of Rivia, the unrivaled monster hunter across the continent, in a quest to save his adopted daughter and save the world from peril.



Create your own character and take a role as anything you want to explore the vast contintent of Eorzea. It's one of the best Final Fantasy games that people tend to overlook due to its genre, sadly.



You are nobody, a recruit who could've died anytime in a battle. But the fate says otherwise, you have a huge future in front of you as a ruler of a huge army. Recruit your fated companions and defeat the evil empire.



A group of filthy thieves have a plan to kidnap the princess, what could possibly go wrong, right? Join Zidane cs. in their grand yet bittersweet adventure.



Souls. A franchise that defines a genre. It's a love letter to classic world exploration and its secrets, combined with merciless yet satisfying combat.



Make your custom character or take a role as one of the Origins in a grand yet crazy quest to redefine the world. If you think you hate turn-based combat, think again.



Fallout 2 was and still is the best RPG of its genre. Choose any possible way imagineable to tackle your quests from saving your tribe from annihilation.



The last good modern RTwP RPG with deep customizations and companions interactions. Become the vanguard of your Order and save your world from the greatest threat to humanity yet.



Probably the only long-running JRPG franchise that instead of declining, it's been gaining more popularity with each installment. A turn-based JRPG couldn't more enjoyable than this.



'Humanity needs a hero, and Shepard is the best we've got'. Gather your crew upgrade your ship, and face one of the most seemingly impossible villains in RPG history.

--VOTE INFO START--

<FULL POINT GAMES – 2 points>
{HIGHLIGHT – 3 points} The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt
{UNDERRATED – 4 points} Final Fantasy XIV
Suikoden II
Final Fantasy IX
Dark Souls
Divinity: Original Sin 2
Fallout 2
Dragon Age: Origins
Persona 5
Mass Effect 2

<HONORABLE MENTIONS – 1 point>
Baldur's Gate II
Chrono Cross
Dragon Quest VIII
Dragon's Dogma
Final Fantasy Tactics
Final Fantasy VII
Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance
The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
Xenoblade Chronicles
Xenogears

--VOTE INFO END--

kswiston said:

I still have one icon undefined. I have also been given more than one good/useful idea of what could be included. I COULD resize the banner a bit to give another column of icons to the left of the Trivia box, but I am worried that things will start to look cluttered, and that we will move into information overload territory.

Opinions?

Click to expand...

Looks great! I saw "degree of character customization" discussed above - that'd be a great option for the fourth icon.

Another option is "structure of the game world," (reproducing here from the earlier post):

FiveSide said:

Structure of the Game World
=> Linear progression through a series of locations (example: Final Fantasy XIII)
=> Overworld map, from which towns and dungeons are accessible (example: Dragon Quest)
=> Open-world (example: The Witcher 3)

Click to expand...

Robert at Zeboyd Games said:

I think this is good, but I'd stick CT in the middle category - the bulk of the game is very linear with just some optional quests near the end & a couple important choices that determine your ending. Although the game has several endings, most of those are just fun easter eggs that you unlock in NG+ by defeating the final boss early and don't have any effect on the main narrative.

Click to expand...

This is a tough one to classify for sure. I'd argue the mainline SMT games have the same issue; there are multiple endings, occasionally even multiple entirely different late-game experiences depending on which ending is chosen, but there isn't sustained C&C in the sense we would usually expect.

Kswiston, maybe there should be a fourth option for the new icon, indicating that the game narrative is largely fixed, but it does open up right at the end to support multiple endings.

This will actually fix classifying a number of games with problematic structures, Chrono Trigger and SMT mentioned above, but also Suikoden, etc.

kswiston said:

The highlight and underrated votes have to be used on full point games.

Also, you can't dip into honorable mentions until you have 10 full point games. A few people did that, but if they don't add more games, I will just count their HMs as full point votes.

I want to limit vote point manipulation. Max points per ballot are 33. Min points per ballot are 10 (not counting lazy votes that are worth 5).

Using the special votes on HMs would effectively give you more full point votes. Hence it not being allowed.

Click to expand...

Ok, makes sens, thanks.

FiveSide said:

This is a tough one to classify for sure. I'd argue the mainline SMT games have the same issue; there are multiple endings, occasionally even multiple entirely different late-game experiences depending on which ending is chosen, but there isn't sustained C&C in the sense we would usually expect.

Kswiston, maybe there should be a fourth option for the new icon, indicating that the game narrative is largely fixed, but it does open up right at the end to support multiple endings.

This will actually fix classifying a number of games with problematic structures, Chrono Trigger and SMT mentioned above, but also Suikoden, etc.

Click to expand...

I see Robert's point above, and think that this is a good solution. Here's a revised icon set for narrative choice



Description of icons (left to right)
=> No meaningful choice. There might be some optional side quests, but nothing with a significant impact on the story. Final Fantasy X or most Pokemon games would fit here.
=> Mostly linear narrative with alternate ending paths in the late game. This will include things like Chrono Trigger, Suikoden II, etc where the story path is linear, outside of a few choices that impact your end game.
=> Significant choice in side content, but the main narrative is mostly fixed. This will include games that have a ton of optional content, but a mostly fixed main scenario (Skyrim, Fantasy Life), and illusion of choice games, where you pick one of two or three paths with largely the same outcome (Mass Effect, Dragon Age).
=> Significant choice throughout. What you choose to do in the game significantly affects your experience (Age of Decadence, a lot of classic computer RPGs).


I think that this fixes some problems. I'm not completely sure where to place things like Final Fantasy VII, where some fairly significant characters are completely optional. I suppose that it would still fit the first category, since the overall narrative is fixed, and Vincent and Yuffie are basically side quests. Ditto with Final Fantasy Tactics. Some of the side characters have significant quest lines, but the War of the Lions story is always the same. I guess my measuring stick could be "will the average player spend more than half of their playtime outside the main quest line?" to differentiate the games above from stuff like Skyrim or Fantasy Life).

The World Ends With You
10 years old this year, it's still one of a kind, and still ahead of its time in many ways. Amazing characters, story, and gameplay - this game’s got it all, and it does it all with more style than you can handle. I’ve played a bunch of games that felt like they were developed with teenagers in mind, but as far as I’m concerned, none of them nail it the way TWEWY does.

The Legend of Heroes: Trails in the Sky SC
The entire Trails series is damn good, but if I had to single out a title, it would be SC. It takes full advantage of the foundation set by the first game to offer a highly satisfying story, packed with feels and character development. In the gameplay department: no random encounters and no need to grind levels, two things I always appreciate. The PC version’s recently added turbo mode is also a wonderful improvement.

Pokemon Gold/Silver/Crystal
Pokemon is one of those RPGs where you don’t even need to like the genre to enjoy. Much like Gen 1, Gen 2 is a grounded adventure that’s light on story. Full color, female MC, animated sprites, breeding, day/night, hold items, two new types, special stat split, Battle Tower, happiness, etc. It was a massive improvement over Gen 1, and so much of what it added still defines modern Pokemon.

Final Fantasy X
One of my favourite turn-based RPGs, and still one of the best entry points into Final Fantasy. Spira is one of the most beautiful and immersive video game settings that I’ve experienced, and the Sphere Grid is also a neat take on a leveling system.

Rune Factory 4
This is the definitive Rune Factory experience, and one of the most charming RPGs period. So good it ruined all Harvest Moon games for me. It’s just bursting with content. Farming, cooking, dungeon crawling, crafting, dating sim - there’s a synergy to all of the activities in this game, so you can always mix up your routine and still be productive. Dialogue and flavor text are a joy to read, and the English voice acting is exceptional.

The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
This game is up here primarily because of its mods, which fix everything and then some. So easy to get in to, so many ways you play. You can ignore the main story and still sink 100+ hours into it. There’s not much out there that can give you this much bang for your buck.

Fire Emblem: Awakening
I was actually late to the party with this, and asked here if it was worth picking up on sale. One of the best decisions I made that year, because it ended up being one of the most addicting games I’ve played. Great production values and really solid gameplay with tons of customization and replay value.

Disgaea: Hour of Darkness
Despite being less streamlined than later games in the series, there’s something especially engrossing about the first one. Many of endings to chase, tons of fun, and no need to go down the min/maxing rabbit hole if you don’t want to… but if you do, you can play it forever.

--VOTE INFO START—

<FULL POINT GAMES – 2 points>
{HIGHLIGHT – 3 points} The World Ends With You
The Legend of Heroes: Trails in the Sky SC
Pokemon Gold/Silver/Crystal
Final Fantasy X
Rune Factory 4
The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim
Fire Emblem: Awakening
Disgaea: Hour of Darkness

--VOTE INFO END--

Fallout: New Vegas - This game truly ignited my love for the Fallout lore and world. Not only is this a fun game to play thanks to the mechanics left behind from Fallout 3, but the writing is AMAZING. None of your choices are black and white and the world is fully fleshed out to give motivation to every faction in the game. If you only play one Fallout game, make sure this is the one. Just be ready to put in 100 hours, because you won't want to stop.

The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt - This was my first game in The Witcher series, but it is one of the best RPGs I have ever played. Exploring this world was very special to me. I cared about every character, and every interaction that Geralt has with the other characters was meaningful. The combat could be slightly frustrating at times, but don't let that scare you away, because the rest is amazing.

The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild - This game is truly like no other. The amount of things you can do is infinite, but so is the amount of fun you can have. The mechanics all come together to form something truly special. From just exploring the world to the incredible boss fights, this is another of my favorites.

Yakuza 0 - Some probably wouldn't consider this an RPG, but this is one of my favorite games I have played this year. Exploring 80s Japan has never felt better, and the side stories elevate this game to one of my favorites of all time. Combine the wackiness of the sub stories with the serious and engaging main plot, and you have quite a stew going. The combat is fun, but where the game really shines is exploring the world and taking in all it has to offer.

Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines - After finishing this game a couple months ago, I finally understand how amazing a CRPG can be. The combat is nothing to write home about, but the writing and the character interactions are second to none. I love the aesthetic, the lore, and everything else about this game. Looking forward to doing another playthrough.

Fire Emblem: Awakening - My first entry in the Fire Emblem series, and still my favorite. The strategy game-play is fun, but the 8-4 localization really takes it to another level. I recommend this to anyone, even if you have't played Fire Emblem before, it's a perfect jumping off point.

--VOTE INFO START&#8212;

<FULL POINT GAMES &#8211; 2 points>
{HIGHLIGHT &#8211; 3 points} Fallout: New Vegas
The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt
Yakuza 0
The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild
Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines
Fire Emblem: Awakening
Mass Effect 2
Pokemon Fire Red/Leaf Green
Pokemon Gold/Silver

--VOTE INFO END--

I decided to take Robert's suggestion for the character customization icons:




Description of icons (left to right)
=> Minimal Customization. Characters are predefined, with predefined roles. Little to no customization within roles. Examples would be Chrono Trigger, Final Fantasy IV, and many of the Fire Emblem games.
=> Moderate Customization. Characters are predefined, but you can customize their skills and magic to some extent. Examples would include Final Fantasy VII, Suikoden II, and Trails in the Sky.
=> Heavy Customization. Build your own party or blank slate characters, by choosing classes/roles for each. You can often customize skills and magic, but level progression within a class is mostly predetermined. Examples would include Final Fantasy V and Tactics, Mass Effect, and Etrian Odyssey.
=> Extreme Customization. Your typical old-school PC RPG where you spend 3 hours custom-building your character or party at the start of the game. If it has predefined classes, you are still given plenty of opportunity to optimize (or ruin) your build of that class via skill/weapon proficiencies, stat allocation, reputation, etc. The Might and Magic games, Morrowind, Baldur's Gate, etc fall into this category.


With all four icons in place, the game banner template currently looks like this:



The current icons cover playable character control (one PC, scripted party, full party control), battle flow (real-time, turn-based, and some major variations), the degree of narrative choice, and the degree of character customization.

If you were looking to choose an RPG to play, would that give you a basic idea of what to expect? Or were some of the other suggestions significant enough that they should be included as well?

Some of the other ideas that were floated were the number of party members, the structure of the world (linear, world map with some choice in where to go, open world), battle transitions (random battles, visible enemies with transition, seamless battles), and setting (swords and sorcery, modern, sci fi, etc).

I would have to make another column of icons to include some of these, which would change the look of the banner somewhat. So keep that in mind!

kswiston said:

If you were looking to choose an RPG to play, would that give you a basic idea of what to expect? Or were some of the other suggestions significant enough that they should be included as well?

Click to expand...

Looks great and I think the four categories definitely cover enough material to give people a good idea of how the game plays and is structured.

The last important piece of information, at least for me, would be the setting, but that's something that can usually be inferred from the artwork or the description of the game. Probably doesn't require an icon.

Yep those were the two areas I thought you should do when you first asked, and I still think so .

kswiston said:

I decided to take Robert's suggestion for the character customization icons:

Description of icons (left to right)
=> Minimal Customization. Characters are predefined, with predefined roles. Little to no customization within roles. Examples would be Chrono Trigger, Final Fantasy IV, and many of the Fire Emblem games.
=> Moderate Customization. Characters are predefined, but you can customize their skills and magic to some extent. Examples would include Final Fantasy VII, Suikoden II, and Trails in the Sky.
=> Heavy Customization. Build your own party or blank slate characters, by choosing classes/roles for each. You can often customize skills and magic, but level progression within a class is mostly predetermined. Examples would include Final Fantasy V and Tactics, Mass Effect, and Etrian Odyssey.
=> Extreme Customization. Your typical old-school PC RPG where you spend 3 hours custom-building your character or party at the start of the game. If it has predefined classes, you are still given plenty of opportunity to optimize (or ruin) your build of that class via skill/weapon proficiencies, stat allocation, reputation, etc. The Might and Magic games, Morrowind, Baldur's Gate, etc fall into this category.


With all for icons in place, the game banner template currently looks like this:

The current icons cover playable character control (one PC, scripted party, full party control), battle flow (real-time, turn-based, and some major variations), the degree of narrative choice, and the degree of character customization.

If you were looking to choose an RPG to play, would that give you a basic idea of what to expect? Or were some of the other suggestions significant enough that they should be included as well?

Some of the other ideas that were floated were the number of party members, the structure of the world (linear, world map with some choice in where to go, open world), battle transitions (random battles, visible enemies with transition, seamless battles), and setting (swords and sorcery, modern, sci fi, etc).

I would have to make another column of icons to include some of these, which would change the look of the banner somewhat. So keep that in mind!

Click to expand...

Looks SO good Swiss! Amazing work.

In looking at the card for Chrono Trigger, the only think I feel it is leaving out is difficulty. Probably don't need to add that but if someone was interested in a moderately easy RPG (or one with a difficulty slider) and (SOMEHOW) hadn't heard of, say, Dark Souls, they may be put off.

The Legend of Grimrock 2:
This game might have the single best sense of place I've experienced in an RPG, certainly in recent memory. Grimrock 2 is by far the most interesting modern evolution of the first person dungeon crawler, constructing a sprawling, interconnected labyrinth of an island absolutely dense with hidden secrets, riddles, puzzles, monsters, and traps. Grimrock 2 is also an RPG surprisingly unbeholden to numbers; statistics affect combat, but so much of the game consists of other interactions that largely depend on your actual wits and observational skills. Normally I'm the sort of person who needs a compelling story to get through an RPG, but Grimrock is deeply engrossing despite its barebones narrative. If the idea of unravelling a sprawling interconnected island of secrets interests you, you absolutely need to play this game.

Xenoblade Chronicles:
The JRPG genre and I have had a pretty rocky relationship for the last decade or so. In particular I have a very personal and probably pretty arbitrary standard of what ”anime bullshit" I will put up with, and what I won't. Xenoblade Chronicles is thankfully, for me at least, almost entirely anime bullshit that I'm down with, with melodramatic vengeance quests and plenty of hotheaded foolish decisions (and it even manages to make an amnesia subplot work). Its gorgeous vistas are a joy to simply run across, and its combat system is engaging and challenging. For a 70 hour game, only the last 10-12 hours start to overstay their welcome, which is saying something for the genre. If you've got time for one game about anime kids killing god, make it this one.

Undertale
Undertale manages to effectively interrogate a number of questions about what it means to be a player and what it means to make decisions. I won't elaborate further for those who haven't played it yet. It has wonderful characters, an incredible soundtrack, and I guarantee you probably haven't played a game quite like this before.

Shining Force
In an alternate timeline the Shining Force series took off instead of the Fire Emblem games and the very specific genre of ”Japanese turn based tactical combat RPGs" looks slightly different. Shining Force is...weird. Incredibly weird. Between battles it features full RPG navigation of towns, castles, and connective overworld segments, and its battle maps are slightly more confined than its Fire Emblem counterparts, leading to combat that feels more deliberate. And its cast of recruitable characters include:
-A floating telekinetic jellyfish
-An armadillo man in a set of steam powered armor
-An ancient robot man
-And a werewolf
If you have any interest in the tactical combat genre you owe it to yourself to check this one out.

Megaman Battle Network 3: Blue Edition
The Megaman Battle Network games feature, to this day, the single best combat system I have ever played in an RPG, and Battle Network 3 remains the best overall package. With a plot just serious enough that it doesn't feel trivial (a problem later games ran into), an enormous number of inventive boss fights, and a frankly ridiculous amount of post game content, Battle Network 3: Blue is a game I would recommend to just about anyone who can track a copy down. Fifteen years later we are finally starting to see other games start to draw inspiration from the Battle Network combat system. Freaking finally.


--VOTE INFO START&#8212;
<FULL POINT GAMES &#8211; 2 points>
{HIGHLIGHT &#8211; 3 points} Undertale
{UNDERRATED &#8211; 4 points} Legend of Grimrock 2
Megaman Battle Network 3
Xenoblade Chronicles
Chrono Trigger
Pillars of Eternity
Divinity: Original Sin
Shining Force
The World Ends With You
Alpha Protocol

--VOTE INFO END--

It's always a tough choice between this and Chrono Trigger as 1st place tbh, but FF7 edges it out. FF7 was revolutionary for its time, initially planned for the N64, it was too big of game to fit in a cartridge and required not 1, not 2, but 3 cds to fit the whole game, which was unheard of at the time. It was quite a daring project, that pushed Playstation not only as a competitor for the console wars, but destroying all competition in terms of consoles sold, some can say it's thanks to FF7 that Playstation exists today. The game itself was revolutionary thanks to the colorful cast of characters, the engrossing storyline, amazing soundtrack, the 3d graphics with pre-rendered backgrounds, the CGI fmv's, all unheard of at the time. The game touched me so much, that I will never forget it as long as I live, it's the only Final Fantasy game that I loved enough to complete it 100% multiple times, I bought the game on multiple platforms, still have it sealed, also have a tattoo of it! I just can't have enough of this game and I'm definitely looking forward to the Remake!



Ah the competitor of FF7 as my top favorite RPG! This game was also revolutionary for it's time, developed by the dream team, which includes Akira Toriyama who is my favorite artist of all time who also designed Dragon Ball! Well he can add this masterpiece to his portfolio because that's exactly what this game is a masterpiece for its time. This game required a 32mb cartridge to fit all this awesomeness, everything from the catchy melody, to the beautiful 16-bit graphics that still hold up today, the colorful cast of characters, the time traveling story with multiple endings, this game has it all that requires multiple play-through to get the full experience, it's a timeless adventure that will never be forgotten as long as I live. Also purchased on multiple platforms, this game is screaming a remake!



Oh man another masterpiece from the Playstation era, even after playing the Xenosaga series and Xenoblade series the one I have the fondest memories of is Xenogears. The story in this game blows everything out of the water, it's like a Bible + Star Wars novel crammed in a game, this game is like 90% story and 10% gameplay which is about 80 hours long at least! But that's not a bad thing, because never before have I been so absorbed in a story, those 80 hours seemed brief and had me craving for more!



Ok I'm not a wrpg fan obviously, well until I played this game! This game not only changed my views of wrpgs, but also got me interested in them. I was literally blown away by the presentation of this game, everything from the excellent spot on voice acting, to the intricate detail of the lore, I was so immersed in this fantasy world I thought I was actually there living it. A project this ambitious seemed like something straight out of a movie, but playable, I can't imagine the amount of work the creators put in making this, because there's so much to explore it's impossible to do all in one play-through. Everything in this game, from the gorgeous graphics, beautiful soundtrack, excellent voice acting, deep customization, fun gory battles, jaw dropping environments, makes this a masterpiece of the ages.



Man this was tough pick for 5th place, but my love for Mario games is no secret and when Squaresoft decided to collaborate with Nintendo for the last time to create an RPG, this game deserve a mention. Some people will argue that some of the Paper Mario games or even Mario and Luigi games are better, but I have to disagree, this game did it first and did it much better! This game pushed the SNES 16-bit technology to its limits, with it's 3d isometric graphics, this is exactly what I needed to hold me off until Mario 64. This also the first time Bowser gets kicked out of his own castle and teams up with the Mario team, and the first time Mario games get any story at all, this was revolutionary for the time. Combined that with a colorful cast of characters that will make you laugh, classic Mario melodies combined with new ones, and new epic adventure, this is a classic tale that will not soon be forgotten!

--VOTE INFO START&#8212;
<FULL POINT GAMES &#8211; 2 points>
{HIGHLIGHT &#8211; 3 points} Final Fantasy 7
Chrono Trigger
Xenogears
Witcher 3
Mario RPG

--VOTE INFO END--

FiveSide said:

This is a tough one to classify for sure. I'd argue the mainline SMT games have the same issue; there are multiple endings, occasionally even multiple entirely different late-game experiences depending on which ending is chosen, but there isn't sustained C&C in the sense we would usually expect.

Kswiston, maybe there should be a fourth option for the new icon, indicating that the game narrative is largely fixed, but it does open up right at the end to support multiple endings.

This will actually fix classifying a number of games with problematic structures, Chrono Trigger and SMT mentioned above, but also Suikoden, etc.

Click to expand...

I think this is a great suggestion. Fixed but opens up near the ending does fit a number of major games.