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F'DUPTON 3: Back in the Tub with 5.0/5.5/6/7/several Inches of RAM-Flavoured Water

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Palm

Banned
It's not because people wanted it to have a bigger number than the One. It is more along the lines of the One was criticised for using so much resources on non gaming functionality and was looked down upon for only having 5 GB available for games. Now Sony is speculated to potentially block off even MORE ram, all of a sudden the narrative changes that 4.5 is more than enough. There is NO reason a gaming machine should reserve 3.5 GB for the OS, especially when you are putting in expensive GDDR5 RAM. The Xbox One came out the gate for being a general purpose multimedia box, got roasted up and down about how all these resources were being used for everything but the games and Sony came out the gates boasting about being the machine for core gamers... so there is no reason for Sony to reserve as much if not more resources when their claim to fame is a focus on gaming.

Sure developers aren't complaining about the lack of RAM NOW, but 5 to 7 years down the line, the more resources they have at their disposal, the better. No developer will come close to maximizing a system in the first generation, especially when they are transitioning from previous generation's hardware and working within those limitations, but years into development, when they start pushing the system to the max, the more resources you give developers to push the system even further, the better. The less resources used for the OS and the more freed up for developers the better IMO.


Negative Xbox One Rumor = 100% true = no source needed

Negative PS4 Rumor = never true = even with source the sites are "dumb"

Positive Xbox One Rumor = something is still wrong = more sources are needed, site posting are MS fanboys

Positive PS4 Rumor = 100% true. best thing EVA! = no source needed


Hmmmm.....seeing a pattern.
 

Wynnebeck

Banned
Negative Xbox One Rumor = 100% true = no source needed

Negative PS4 Rumor = never true = even with source the sites are "dumb"

Positive Xbox One Rumor = something is still wrong = more sources are needed

Positive PS4 Rumor = best thing EVA! = no source needed


Hmmmm.....seeing a pattern.

Pay attention boys and girls. This is what we call confirmation bias.
 

thuway

Member
It's not because people wanted it to have a bigger number than the One. It is more along the lines of the One was criticised for using so much resources on non gaming functionality and was looked down upon for only having 5 GB available for games. Now Sony is speculated to potentially block off even MORE ram, all of a sudden the narrative changes that 4.5 is more than enough. There is NO reason a gaming machine should reserve 3.5 GB for the OS, especially when you are putting in expensive GDDR5 RAM. The Xbox One came out the gate for being a general purpose multimedia box, got roasted up and down about how all these resources were being used for everything but the games and Sony came out the gates boasting about being the machine for core gamers... so there is no reason for Sony to reserve as much if not more resources when their claim to fame is a focus on gaming.

Sure developers aren't complaining about the lack of RAM NOW, but 5 to 7 years down the line, the more resources they have at their disposal, the better. No developer will come close to maximizing a system in the first generation, especially when they are transitioning from previous generation's hardware and working within those limitations, but years into development, when they start pushing the system to the max, the more resources you give developers to push the system even further, the better. The less resources used for the OS and the more freed up for developers the better IMO.

doy471.jpg
 

SEGAvangelist

Gold Member
Negative Xbox One Rumor = 100% true = no source needed

Negative PS4 Rumor = never true = even with source the sites are "dumb"

Positive Xbox One Rumor = something is still wrong = more sources are needed

Positive PS4 Rumor = best thing EVA! = no source needed


Hmmmm.....seeing a pattern.
You should edit that. Lol
 

vpance

Member
So 6 GB pretty much confirmed now.

Why everyone got so bent out of shape about this is beyond me.

6/2 split seems extremely reasonable - gives them ample RAM for games and ample room for OS expansion.

Eurogamer's credibility is seriously hurting right now. Leadbetter has been doing awful work the last month.

Time for Eurogamer DF ban?

Honestly, as much as I like the insiders here, I'm going to trust the guys who are posting with their real names, on record, on their websites which they do for a living posting information that they got from the SDK documentation created by Sony.

Their source is regular B3D forum goers who have no inside info.
 
You'd have a point, but this is the quote:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=62495686&postcount=345


In terms of Final Fantasy XV, that's about as hard lined a confirmation as you're going to get. I concede the Kingdom Hearts rumor, since in talks gives you wiggle room, but outright saying that Final Fantasy XV is exclusive and that Sony is helping with the development doesn't give you room for the game to all of a sudden be coming to the Xbox One.

All I can tell you is when you make a statement like that is bannable without evidence. None of us post any evidence on gaf because that would be insane. However, mods do require us to and there was several sources of strong "evidence" that FFXV was exclusive.
 

Kinyou

Member
I just heard that the PS4's ram will change on a daily basis. 4.5 GB on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays, 5.5 GB on Tuesdays and Thursdays and 6GB on the weekend.

I think it actually was In-Engine realtime. However, there is much doubt it will be able to achieve it on consoles etc.
Ah, that sounds the most likely.
 
You'd have a point, but this is the quote:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=62495686&postcount=345


In terms of Final Fantasy XV, that's about as hard lined a confirmation as you're going to get. I concede the Kingdom Hearts rumor, since in talks gives you wiggle room, but outright saying that Final Fantasy XV is exclusive and that Sony is helping with the development doesn't give you room for the game to all of a sudden be coming to the Xbox One.
Damn at the linked post -__-
 

HyperV

Banned
Sony isn't going to can bounce hard number yet because MS might plan on changing their RAM figures in response.

Sony wants MS to screw themselves by dedicating too much RAM to their bloated 3 OS causing their games to be gimped.

You can NEVER have too much RAM, regardless of what type it is.
 
I just heard that the PS4's ram will change on a daily basis. 4.5 GB on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays, 5.5 GB on Tuesdays and Thursdays and 6GB on the weekend.


Ah, that sounds the most likely.

does that effect the finished copy of the game as well... if so then I probably have to adjust my play sessions :p
 

LiquidMetal14

hide your water-based mammals

Ragdoll physics on nose hairs

Ray-traced real time flatulence

Speedtree pubic hair technology

Need I say more?

Negative Xbox One Rumor = 100% true = no source needed

Negative PS4 Rumor = never true = even with source the sites are "dumb"

Positive Xbox One Rumor = something is still wrong = more sources are needed, site posting are MS fanboys

Positive PS4 Rumor = 100% true. best thing EVA! = no source needed


Hmmmm.....seeing a pattern.

Persecution complex or plain out conspiracy theorist level stuff here.
 

kevm3

Member

Funny how 5 wasn't enough for the One, but now it's 'enough'. As a specialized machine designed to PLAY GAMES, you give developers as much resources, including RAM as reasonably possible. Microsoft went out the gate with the purpose of a multimedia box. They are actually using those resources for something... I don't particularly care for that arrangement, which is why I'm not buying a One. Sony came out the gates as a 'games first' machine and they were rumored to block off just as much if not more ram for non-game uses? Sorry, if that was the case, Sony did deserve criticism. 4.5 to 5 is enough for NOW, just as I'm sure 512 was "enough" for PS3 developers when going from the PS2's 32 MB to the PS3's 512. However, at the tail end of the life cycle, developers started hitting limitations. The exact same thing will happen here. The more resources you give developers, the more they will be able to do with it, especially as the generation progresses.
 
Negative Xbox One Rumor = 100% true = no source needed

Negative PS4 Rumor = never true = even with source the sites are "dumb"

Positive Xbox One Rumor = something is still wrong = more sources are needed, site posting are MS fanboys

Positive PS4 Rumor = 100% true. best thing EVA! = no source needed


Hmmmm.....seeing a pattern.

Where's the source?
 
As he said full editorial is under preparation, I hope he can post full composition on ram usage.

Because in Sony's SDK docs, even page swap can count as RAM now.


Virtual memory is not a bad thing though. It allows multiple programs to share the memory without need to dedicate contiguous memory blocks to single programs. So yes, it may seem like there is more memory available to all the programs that their physically is, but this is because a chunk is all virtual for all program to use.

It's actually a smart design.
 

beast786

Member
Negative Xbox One Rumor = 100% true = no source needed

Negative PS4 Rumor = never true = even with source the sites are "dumb"

Positive Xbox One Rumor = something is still wrong = more sources are needed, site posting are MS fanboys

Positive PS4 Rumor = 100% true. best thing EVA! = no source needed


Hmmmm.....seeing a pattern.

bling_tony_soprano.gif
 

mintylurb

Member
Negative Xbox One Rumor = 100% true = no source needed

Negative PS4 Rumor = never true = even with source the sites are "dumb"

Positive Xbox One Rumor = something is still wrong = more sources are needed, site posting are MS fanboys

Positive PS4 Rumor = 100% true. best thing EVA! = no source needed


Hmmmm.....seeing a pattern.

3Gs.jpg
 

thuway

Member
Funny how 5 wasn't enough for the One, but now it's 'enough'. As a specialized machine designed to PLAY GAMES, you give developers as much resources, including RAM as reasonably possible. Microsoft went out the gate with the purpose of a multimedia box. They are actually using those resources for something... I don't particularly care for that arrangement, which is why I'm not buying a One. Sony came out the gates as a 'games first' machine and they were rumored to block off just as much if not more ram for non-game uses? Sorry, if that was the case, Sony did deserve criticism. 4.5 to 5 is enough for NOW, just as I'm sure 512 was "enough" for PS3 developers when going from the PS2's 32 MB to the PS3's 512. However, at the tail end of the life cycle, developers started hitting limitations. The exact same thing will happen here. The more resources you give developers, the more they will be able to do with it, especially as the generation progresses.

The number 6 is in your future if you choose it. It might not be today, it might not be tomorrow, but the number 6 is in your future. Do you like 6?

I am seriously out now.
 

Majanew

Banned
All I can tell you is when you make a statement like that is bannable without evidence. None of us post any evidence on gaf because that would be insane. However, mods do require us to and there was several sources of strong "evidence" that FFXV was exclusive.

He was wrong about that, PS4 RAM amount and PS4's dimensions. What he says should be taken with a grain of salt, because he has been wrong.
 
D

Deleted member 80556

Unconfirmed Member
Negative Xbox One Rumor = 100% true = no source needed

Negative PS4 Rumor = never true = even with source the sites are "dumb"

Positive Xbox One Rumor = something is still wrong = more sources are needed, site posting are MS fanboys

Positive PS4 Rumor = 100% true. best thing EVA! = no source needed


Hmmmm.....seeing a pattern.

Here we go again with the paranoia. Read this please:

Jesus. There's so much wrong in this post.

I really hate how some have a persecution complex. Go back to the threads of those years. And then think about what's happening. This isn't about how "others are dissing poor MS for doing good, while praising Sony for anything", this is about how one company had to re build its consumers' trust after many fuck ups 6 years ago, and the same is happening to the company you're defending. So I kindly ask to anyone who's thinking about posting similarly to GFEric here: Be smarter, and look at the entire context of the industry before taking MS as a victim of forum posters instead of being the victim of their own mistakes.

Also, sorry for being off topic.

This negative PS4 rumor took as a source a guy from a forum which has said that the XB1 would have 12GB because they could change to the dev kit setup.

Sure developers aren't complaining about the lack of RAM NOW, but 5 to 7 years down the line, the more resources they have at their disposal, the better. No developer will come close to maximizing a system in the first generation, especially when they are transitioning from previous generation's hardware and working within those limitations, but years into development, when they start pushing the system to the max, the more resources you give developers to push the system even further, the better. The less resources used for the OS and the more freed up for developers the better IMO.

No one has said that in 5 or 7 years down the line, it won't be enough.

What it has been said is that Sony always reduces the OS footprint in RAM usage in every system they have built.
 

Becky

Banned
It's not because people wanted it to have a bigger number than the One. It is more along the lines of the One was criticised for using so much resources on non gaming functionality and was looked down upon for only having 5 GB available for games. Now Sony is speculated to potentially block off even MORE ram, all of a sudden the narrative changes that 4.5 is more than enough. There is NO reason a gaming machine should reserve 3.5 GB for the OS, especially when you are putting in expensive GDDR5 RAM. The Xbox One came out the gate for being a general purpose multimedia box, got roasted up and down about how all these resources were being used for everything but the games and Sony came out the gates boasting about being the machine for core gamers... so there is no reason for Sony to reserve as much if not more resources when their claim to fame is a focus on gaming.

Sure developers aren't complaining about the lack of RAM NOW, but 5 to 7 years down the line, the more resources they have at their disposal, the better. No developer will come close to maximizing a system in the first generation, especially when they are transitioning from previous generation's hardware and working within those limitations, but years into development, when they start pushing the system to the max, the more resources you give developers to push the system even further, the better. The less resources used for the OS and the more freed up for developers the better IMO.

I dont remember anyone saying 4.5 was enough? Links?
 

nib95

Banned
Negative Xbox One Rumor = 100% true = no source needed

Negative PS4 Rumor = never true = even with source the sites are "dumb"

Positive Xbox One Rumor = something is still wrong = more sources are needed, site posting are MS fanboys

Positive PS4 Rumor = 100% true. best thing EVA! = no source needed


Hmmmm.....seeing a pattern.

God this persecution complex from certain groups is hilarious. This is Digital Foundry. Just the other day they fudged up with mistaking the word seven instead of several. This isn't someone like CBoat. There's a difference in perception for a reason.
 
Wait why are people saying 6 now? This is the most confusing shit ever besides the fact that OSes draining more than windows at maximum is sad
 

chris0701

Member
Virtual memory is not a bad thing though. It allows multiple programs to share the memory without need to dedicate contiguous memory blocks to single programs. So yes, it may seem like there is more memory available to all the programs that their physically is, but this is because a chunk is all virtual for all program to use.

It's actually a smart design.

Smart as what we have learned at 90's OS textbook ?
 

FranXico

Member
Honestly, I see it mostly isolated to DF, and to Leadbetter in particular. Fuck's sake, the EG article for when Defense Grid was revealed for Games with Gold had a smug Jack Tretton for the respective article pic.

Agreed. The only fanboy in their staff is Leadbetter. They just let him run wild because they love the page hits.
 

S¡mon

Banned
been out, so what's 100% confirmed #truthfact so far?
There is "Direct Memory" and there is "Flexible Memory". Both are to be fully utilized by the developers.

There's also X GB of RAM reserved for the OS. First rumours said 1 GB, now rumours say 3 GB. Sony hasn't announced anything.
 
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