SteveWinwood
Member
why do these threads make me hurt so
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CES: Press' first impressions on Steam Machines and Controller
- Thread starter ashecitism
- Start date
Jaded Alyx
Member
Yeh it's kind of alarming, yet I suppose not really surprising, that people are writing this off based on impressions from CES while apparently ignoring these videos and impressions from the people who've been using the controller for a while now in a variety of different games.
alexandros
Banned
We have seen it in action, check the videos posted above. It takes some getting used to but it works well for a variety of games, even those that aren't normally playable on a controller. It's a good piece of tech and a very smart design but Valve did it a huge disservice by presenting it in its current condition and letting reporters judge it after a few minutes of play. I don't get it, usually Valve's PR is excellent, why would they do this?
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
Well, from the perspective that dual analogue is the best possible control system that could exist, then reinventing the wheel is a bad idea.
Given the opposite opinion however - that dual analogue is fucking awful as a control input for the bast majority of genres out there, then it makes a lot of sense.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
Probably won't be my choice for FPS but for other games I could see this working out. I'm tired of using analog sticks. They just feel clunky as heck and I don't understand why I ever liked the 360 controller in the first place. Even when I was a fan of it, I had to work with the clunkiness.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
I think just throwing in a stick on the left side would alleviate most of the concerns and criticisms.
SteveWinwood
Member
maybe we should just have the one horse in front of this new "car" you keep going on about
maybe then everyone will be a bit more comfortable
whatever its not like anything is better than the carriage anyhow
Pretty much this. Every video I've seen of this from beta testers shows them getting around pretty decently even in games like Rome 2 once they've played with it for a while. For the time being, I trust them over journalists who get to handle it for 15 or so minutes.
As ever, it's easy to shit on something you're not used to.
alexandros
Banned
It's not necessary, the touchpads can emulate analog sticks just fine. The controller is operating in legacy mode, which means the left touchpad is the WSAD keys.
GravityMan
Member
The beta testers' impressions and videos carry far more weight with me than these CES impressions. First of all, the beta testers had way more time to play with the controller...hours, days, weeks...as opposed to the 5 minute playtime of the journalists attending CES. A controller this drastically different is going to take a while to get the hang of for most people. Secondly, the beta testers' environments (their homes) is far more consistent with what the environment of most end-users will be...instead of the loud and noisy CES.
That said, I agree with those that feel that Valve's showing at CES was sloppy.
That said, I agree with those that feel that Valve's showing at CES was sloppy.
alexandros
Banned
It's not really their fault, they read impressions and they jump to conclusions based on that. We who have been following the controller closely know that it's in legacy mode, the general public does not.
Dreams-Visions
Member
Hype dashed!
They are taking this way too casually. On the one hand, the controller clearly isn't ready to show off and is being iterated on, in which case most companies would not show it. A similar thing is true for the steam machines, some partners clearly aren't ready or have slammed a machine together on a whim. Equally Valve themselves are collaborating with Alienware but show a machine that has no details what so ever to show.
Did valve not realise that a "consumer electronic show" probably requires a more completed product or are they trying to illustrate that this is the process that they think will be successful?
The only bit of info from Gabe that explained anything at CES was that they "attend events like this to gather feedback", but to me it seems the feedback is the same as what has been said over the course of the beta and videos/info released already.
Did valve not realise that a "consumer electronic show" probably requires a more completed product or are they trying to illustrate that this is the process that they think will be successful?
The only bit of info from Gabe that explained anything at CES was that they "attend events like this to gather feedback", but to me it seems the feedback is the same as what has been said over the course of the beta and videos/info released already.
Bboy AJ
My dog was murdered by a 3.5mm audio port and I will not rest until the standard is dead
Reinventing the wheel? This wheel is perfect? Then explain why PC FPS and RTS players use KBM and not controllers.
jim-jam bongs
Member
Sounds like it sort of sucks for TPS/FPS, but is great for things which aren't traditional controller games. I feel conflicted. I'd still like to try it out for myself.
KaiserBecks
Member
Nothing is stopping you from using windows on a Steam Machine.
Even if you could get this thing to work as well as a standard gamepad, which is a pipe dream but that is another topic, you are still severely handicapped in most PC games. How are you going to compete in any FPS, strategy or well..any competitive game?
It could have uses for single player games, i am sure you could play and enjoy Bioshock Infinite with that thing and not suffer terribly, but stuff like Counter Strike online, DOTA 2, TF2, let alone MMOs.
It could have uses for single player games, i am sure you could play and enjoy Bioshock Infinite with that thing and not suffer terribly, but stuff like Counter Strike online, DOTA 2, TF2, let alone MMOs.
Hopefully they call pull out a good controller in the end because im seriously considering a steam machine.
this is actually a very good point. man i really have to try this controller for myself
this is actually a very good point. man i really have to try this controller for myself
or he could play non-steam linux games and use any other software from the debian repositories without having to pay for windows
Also the whole design of the controller, the touch pad specifics and all its pro's and cons are still in a very early stage that's why they have the beta program, so they can get feedback on which they can iterate and develop further. I expect the final version to look much more different but don't expect them to drop the touch-pad and replace it with thumb sticks, since it is still a much bigger step towards mouse like controls in a controller then anything else.
ComputerMKII
Banned
I'll form an opinion when we get to try the finished product, not a prototype.
SteveWinwood
Member
You probably won't be. I can only think of a few worse control schemes for Dota.
This will hopefully be a kickass lay on the couch and lose my day to Crusader Kings device though.
Probably because the ideas have a lot of potential but are being butchered at the moment. That may just be because they are more open about the iterations that they are doing and happy to show incomplete work. If this is the usual process valve go through, I'm fucking glad they are keeping quiet on Half life 3, shit would hit the fan!
BennyBlanco
aka IMurRIVAL69
valve isn't releasing anything but a free OS
i watched those videos and the only one which really stands out as been beyond what would be comfortably achievable on thumbsticks was hearthstone. hard reset was the only game on that list which demands nimble MKB dexterity and dude was playing it like an arthritic bonehead.
i was on board with the possibilities of the design when they first announced it, but valve are doing a pretty crappy job of selling the concept right now. host a cs go showmatch or something, five on 360 pads, five on gabepads.
SteveWinwood
Member
Nah I think it's because no matter how hard people attempt to scream for innovation they are still scared of change at the end of day and are never brave enough to try it out for themselves.
EatinOlives
Member
The industry by and large accepts the abomination that is current joysticks as an acceptable solution for aiming-heavy games like FPSs, so the fact that they're not warming up to this new solution doesn't really mean much to me at all. It's obviously a completely different approach so it'll take some getting used to.
I'll likely be picking up this controller when it comes out as standalone. Anything that makes using a controller with FPSs even remotely viable for me will make it a winner in my book.
I'll likely be picking up this controller when it comes out as standalone. Anything that makes using a controller with FPSs even remotely viable for me will make it a winner in my book.
Steam's messaging with these Steam Machines must be terrible if people on this very continue to miss the "point" of these PCs are.
These are simply pre-built PCs with the Steam OS built in with a controller. You can get them in a variety of ways and power. Aimed for living room use or big time gaming. What exactly is so hard to understand? It's just a different branding for pre-built PCs which have exists for decades now.
Build your own or buy a pre built. Valve doesn't give a flying fuck as long as you use Steam on it! Got your own PC? Yes? Did you download Steam? Yes? You have a Steam Machine!
These are simply pre-built PCs with the Steam OS built in with a controller. You can get them in a variety of ways and power. Aimed for living room use or big time gaming. What exactly is so hard to understand? It's just a different branding for pre-built PCs which have exists for decades now.
Build your own or buy a pre built. Valve doesn't give a flying fuck as long as you use Steam on it! Got your own PC? Yes? Did you download Steam? Yes? You have a Steam Machine!
But then if the machine itself isn't very portable - and the ones that are portable seem to be either super underpowered and/or vastly overpriced - and its controller (by several accounts) isn't really a substitute for a keyboard/mouse, what's the point of buying this? Cause I thought the whole point of a Steambox was bringing the PC experience into the living room.
It really seems to me I can have a vastly superior "PC in the living room experience" with a mere HDMI cable and my current laptop/PC.
MDSLKTR
Member
And a controller. Both which still took up all their resources and time, what a waste of talent.
alexandros
Banned
Pretty much. I expected a much more professional presentation from Valve but they treated CES as yet another beta test. Ok, so it's still early days for the machines, the OS and the controller, but I seriously doubt that Steam Machines will be available in 2014 given the project's current condition.
ashecitism
Member
Only 30 people are working on this project. Nothing has been wasted, this didn't affect their games.
then what's the point in hyping up a machine with a 7870 in it? there will be far better options come 2015.
EatinOlives
Member
It is. If you lack a gaming PC but want PC gaming in your living room you get a steam machine. Even if you don't like the controller (which isn't even remotely close to being judged as objectively bad so far), you can use your own.
alexandros
Banned
The gabepads would destroy the 360 pads, there really is no contest.
SteveWinwood
Member
yep all of their resources and time
they should get some of those bosses over there to get some of these rascally employees in line
These are not mice.
The fact is that if you can reliably hit up, down, left and right on one pad, you should be able to do the same on the other.
well, exactly. so why not shout about it? it's exactly the kind of video that people love to argue over on highly visible social websites. a perpetual hype engine.
alexandros
Banned
Maybe they'll have everything ready in the next few months? I don't know if it is possible, but I'm very curious to find out.
The Abominable Snowman
Member
After seeing what the PCs themselves are and seeing that they still have a price overhead even with the free OS, and after controller impressions, even with FPS', I'm unenthused with the Steam machines.
I'll keep an eye out for the controller, as maybe it has some feature or use not documented yet. I went from enthusiastic to curious to EXCITED to "Nope" in record time.
I'll keep an eye out for the controller, as maybe it has some feature or use not documented yet. I went from enthusiastic to curious to EXCITED to "Nope" in record time.
Sorcerer
Member
I still can't get over that they basically dumped some pc's on a table and said basically said good night, good luck.
What were they thinking by having a 7 minute presentation?
It seems damage control can't even be done in this case.