Do you think it's their design choice to make these outfits or do you think they're doing it because they think it's what the fans want?
I mean like they are just burning with artistic desire to make a fighting game with scantily clad women?
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If fighting games want to be mainstream esports, they need less fanservice
- Thread starter DrArchon
- Start date
Do you think it's their design choice to make these outfits or do you think they're doing it because they think it's what the fans want?
I mean like they are just burning with artistic desire to make a fighting game with scantily clad women?
Its probably both
Karsticles
Member
Chun-li's current designer is super into her thighs.
Lmao dude, i'm pretty sure a good amout of them are into the designs they make
A little bit of column A and a little bit of column B I imagine.
CrazyIvan1978
Member
From OP:
Last night at EVO, we had a repeat of last year's performance. Not from the players, but from ESPN. We had them come up on stage and say to the players "Hey, would you mind changing your costume? We can't show this chick's asshole hanging out on national television."
It's very much this. That said, the more established the character is, the less leeway to do as they please (hence things like the change to Cammy's face in SFV after Japanese fans hated the initial one). While creators want to see what appeals to them realized, this will still be limited by the desires of the consumers they choose to target.
Whatever it takes. We can't expect our youth to turn into ESPN, see SF5 models, and think that obesity is healthy.
esport sells tho
They could also be into those outfits too.
A Link to the Past
Banned
I think "normal clothing" options are a good idea. Not necessarily because they should be the default in these events, but because it'd be nice for people who like the characters' designs, but think the outfits are a bit silly.
neohwa
Junior Member
Who is there to judge what's ok and what's not okay to look at on TV?
The judge(ESRB) gives SFV a Teen rating, not Mature or AO. So that should be okay to be shown on national TV. No? You guys want to make you own ratings now?
If you or Disney have a problem with it, shouldn't you complain to ESRB instead? It's not Capcom's problem.
Also to be honest, I never notice the fanservices in Cammy or Mika. Those were only noticeable if you purposely paused the game and looked for them(and then turned around and acted like a saint and complained about the fanservices!). So seriously what's wrong with some of you?
Question: How to make fighting games to become more mainstream esports? Hmm maybe gameplay, graphics, balance, strategy, team play, and make it more exciting to watch for a long time? Fanservice is a double edged sword as it could actually attract some people to watch.
So no, fanservice is not the problem. Capcom can always move their esports to another network who accepts them. Disney's ESPN has been losing subscribers for a long time so it is a non-issue anyway.
Karsticles
Member
Who is obese in SFV aside from Birdy?
AlexFlame116
Member
I'm all for more modest costumes. It's kind of hard playing Soul Calibur (any of them) with a friend or family member and then getting the awkward look when seeing Ivy or Taki. Leixia too.
But that's just my opinion and I know that many others have different experiences.
But that's just my opinion and I know that many others have different experiences.
spazchicken
Member
Don't forget Gief too.You might call the stuff I like "embarrassing", but I'd probably call the stuff you like "boring" or "unattractive". In the end, I guess its up to developers to decide what demographic they chase for their games, and to cater to them.
I get it. You dont like sexualized females in your games. I get it, because I feel the same way about sexualized males. Capcom isnt making thong Urien or battle Costume Ed for guys like me. Not with this level of sexualization...
Im largely indifferent to Hot Ryu or Geif. I can see why people who are sexually attracted to men like them, but I dont see them in that light. I will accept that there are significantly more examples of sexualized females in SFV than there are of sexualized males. Though I do think males are more attracted to fighting games, because of the violence they offer, so devs cater to us more.
I think Cammy is primarily there for people (like me) who like seeing sexy girls. I wont deny that. She is one of the most popular SF characters and Im confident that popularity is largely due to her sex appeal. I think if you put pants on her, you lessen her sex appeal and people wont like her design as much. Im sure I've seen people wish for shirtless Vega too. Ugly Ken (with the short hair) is virtually a meme now. Im also sure some of those people who wanted improvements to those characters, did so because they would find them sexier, with those changes.
I've also seen people say they dont want to play SFV in front of their kids or other family members etc, and I get that too. A costume filter option would be a great idea to ensure that the user doesnt have to look at stuff that they dont want to. It wouldnt work in 2D fighters or at tournaments, but it'd be good for home situations. I dont think it'd be hard for devs to implement either.
These are worse than any female outfit in the game but I wonder if ESPN would have a problem with them or real Track and Field female outfits. I somehow doubt it.
That double standard.
neohwa
Junior Member
I watched Titanic to Game of Thrones and people gave me the awkward look when it came to the nude scenes.
I got the awkward look too when they see me playing videogames. So should I stop playing videogames? No. Should I feel uncomfortable doing what I love most just because some people don't understand it? No.
I think people who like to play games have to make a stand by now. We are not inferior to the people who mostly watch movie/sports/books/other hobbies. If we continue to feel bad about our favorite hobbies, then videogaming will continue to be looked down on.
The ESPN person probably is the kind of person who paused the game every 0.5 seconds, saved 100 screenshots to the computer, zoom in on them to find the "worst" pic and then complained about the fanservices.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
early Shinkiro has dat clooney thing going on
Seeing as Chun Li is allowed to play in a classy sexy dress and Cammy is also allowed to play in a classy sexy dress, I wonder why some leap to extremes thinking people want that burka image.
It feels disingenuous and braindead stupid leaps of logic. Also the terrible rebuttal of double standard when the women are showing their underwear and thongs and underboobs when all the men get are mostly bare chests and they're still wearing pants or shorts (with a very limited exceptions). The women are more often on display showing a whole lot more than any of the men.
And I doubt anyone, including ESPN would find track and field tights or uniforms to be extreme. If anything, they'd be a hell of a lot more modest than most costumes. Laura's sporty outfit is hot.
Ya'll also underestimate the different kinds of things men like. Simple tee and jeans are incredibly hot and sexy. The Cammy pic posted several times in this thread from that final Fight game, is one example similar to a simple tee and jeans. She's incredibly hot in them. For a man, sometimes the less you show the hotter they look. All Cammy is showing is her belly and it's hot.
Sexy comes in all forms besides just almost nude or slutty. Plenty acceptable and frequent on TV all the freakin' time.
EDIT: And you can still have those super near naked ones too. More presentable ones would just by nice as well. Especially in a tournament setting involving TV.
It feels disingenuous and braindead stupid leaps of logic. Also the terrible rebuttal of double standard when the women are showing their underwear and thongs and underboobs when all the men get are mostly bare chests and they're still wearing pants or shorts (with a very limited exceptions). The women are more often on display showing a whole lot more than any of the men.
And I doubt anyone, including ESPN would find track and field tights or uniforms to be extreme. If anything, they'd be a hell of a lot more modest than most costumes. Laura's sporty outfit is hot.
Ya'll also underestimate the different kinds of things men like. Simple tee and jeans are incredibly hot and sexy. The Cammy pic posted several times in this thread from that final Fight game, is one example similar to a simple tee and jeans. She's incredibly hot in them. For a man, sometimes the less you show the hotter they look. All Cammy is showing is her belly and it's hot.
Sexy comes in all forms besides just almost nude or slutty. Plenty acceptable and frequent on TV all the freakin' time.
EDIT: And you can still have those super near naked ones too. More presentable ones would just by nice as well. Especially in a tournament setting involving TV.
katsubento
Member
There's one female senior citizen in there, all bundled up.
Finaika
Member
Still looks 18.
Tizoc
Member
That looks nothing like clooney
lucebuce12
Member
lol no
FIREKNIGHT2029
Member
As a fighting game fan that doesn't give a shit about e-sports I say....FUCK NO!
I don't want devs compromising their designs to appeal to an e-sports audience that may or may not be interested in their game. If a game is good enough to land an e-sport audience then let the gameplay speak for itself and let the players themselves decide what is okay to ban in tournament settings. I want devs to be free to come up with whatever outlandish crazy designs they want without fear of them being "fan servicey" or whatever the hell that means.
I don't want devs compromising their designs to appeal to an e-sports audience that may or may not be interested in their game. If a game is good enough to land an e-sport audience then let the gameplay speak for itself and let the players themselves decide what is okay to ban in tournament settings. I want devs to be free to come up with whatever outlandish crazy designs they want without fear of them being "fan servicey" or whatever the hell that means.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
dunno, some of his old stuff has that look
Meh, I feel like you do know what it means tho
Honestly I really never got this whole fear of devs hypothetically "compromising" themselves, when instead it generally feels more like people just not wanting these type of designs to go away.
FIREKNIGHT2029
Member
I know what fan-service means but I honestly don't think it matters as long as the characters aren't nude. I feel like the artists and game designers should be free to express their designs in any way they see fit as long as it's not insulting or hurtful to anyone. It's up to the tournament/e-sports organizers to decide what is tasteful for their audience and apply bans on outfits they don't find tasteful. I don't want the e-sport audience deciding for me what is tasteful and appropriate for me when I play fighting games in my personal time.
SarcasticRedRover
Member
Going off topic to continue your post here: While Fire Emblem has always had varying amounts of fan service through its history (See: Dancers and Pegasus Knights), the modern entries have definitely gotten a little out of hand with it. Which is strange since it's still capable of good, not-fan-service laden designs like Peri before promotion, female Mercs and Wyvern Riders in Fates.
Back to the topic at hand, to be honest, I always took more interest with Makoto, Juri and Ibuki over Chun-Li and Cammy. Especially since I'd catch some glances from friends and family whenever Cammy's intro animation for SF4 played. I'd definitely love alt costumes that are... more tame than the standard design for certain characters.
Also has pratically none male gaze since it is a first person shooter so it can't have those weird butt zooms.
For the "i hope devs are full on artistic ideas, here are early Morrigan and Felicia designs
A few darsktalkers ones
Morrigan
Felicia
Notice how morrigan is buffed and both are more dressed in their early designs before having to "sacrifice their design choice to cater to some lame shit" market of pervy boys
I'm not up to date on the latest SFV drama but who's actually obese other than Birdie?
Also youth has been subjected to tiny super thin white supermodels for years and years, that's not exactly healthy either... I'd rather have the 'love your body no matter the shape/size' revolution than the 'if you don't look like a Barbie doll you're ugly' one.
Oh. Lol. Never change, ESPN. Have they put coats on the beach volleyball teams, yet?
So do I! I'd love for female characters to have outlandish and crazy designs, that don't end up being thongs and tits that by all reasoning, should've popped out after 1 jump.
And fuck off I ain't avatar quoting you!
Alice Madness Returns had awesome outlandish outfits.
I wonder what Capcom will do next, though. They wanted some of that DOA "sex sells" money, but the game tanked big time (for unrelated reasons). For me, a return to form to SFIV levels of pandering (which still has big breasted women in revealing costumes and Cammy's butt on display) would be the best case scenario. People never complained about Chun's or Cammy's breasts being too small, or Chun's sleeveless dress not being revealing enough, or Makoto being covered in all of her costumes.
hikarutilmitt
Member
I'm not gonna lie, I much prefer the Felicia D design to her normal one. I've never liked her design because it was just... I dunno, too much? And I don't really mean in the fan-service way of just barely covering things.
In both of those sheets, though, you can see some pretty specific influences (or very strong coincidences) with existing comic designs.
Really? I think all of the non-official designs are frankly prtty terribad. I would, however, be in no way adverse to Felicia A getting changed to a full body suit of spandex in the "naughty" areas where it now shows skin. Not only would such be far, far more elegant than the original... it would also follow the laws of general physics.
hikarutilmitt
Member
I feel like C and E are pretty close to being on Thundercats but D still has a bit of Saturday Morning Cartoon Block to it without being so far over that you can clearly see its inspiration.
I mean, it's mostly the dress and pink hair. I'd probably have her barefoot again because the heels are silly (and I'm actually not super against heels in games ever like most seem to be), but she looks so happy there. And somewhat unique.
Okay. Tight/revealing clothing doesn't automatically make something sexual or inappropriate.
Overwatch characters (both the guys and girls) gets so much love because they made characters that everyone already considers atractive, regardless of clothing. There's nothing sexualized about Symmetra, Sombra, Mercy, Mei, Zarya, D.va (McCree, Hanzo, Reinhardt, Soldier), Ana, or Tracer's clothes, but you're still going to see them pushed because people think those characters are hot. The only exception in the game is Widowmaker, who is intended to be sexual.
Everyone involved, but the most important is the viewerconsumer.
No, it's still Capcom's problem if their design decisions alienate the majority of their potential audience. ESRB has nothing to do with that (and they don't judge, they just categorize the game as a whole).
I couldn't disagree more with any of this. Mika and Cammy's design/crotch shots stick out like sore thumbs. Gameplay, balance... doesn't matter when the majority of potential fighting game fans need to put in effort and research to understand it, which they won't because they're already put off by all the fanservice.
No, fanservice is the problem. Disney and ESPN aren't forcing Capcom to do anything, they're just voicing the opinions of people who aren't so deep in that they can take almost anything as long as the game is good. That shouldn't be a qualifier to be a fan of fighting games, but unless you're exclusively playing Tekken of Marvel, it pretty much is.
You're doing this thing where you pretend everyone is looking down on you for enjoying videogames, and that everyone who argues for more conservative costumes or mainstream appeal are pretending they don't enjoy them (whether or not we do is irrelevant).
Gief and Urien aren't designed to be sexy though. If that's someone's thing, then yeah they will find it sexy, but otherwise they're just half naked men. Like I said way up above in this comment, a character showing skin/tight clothes doesn't automatically equate to them being sexy/sexualized. It's not a double standard.
There's a reason Hot Ryu got so much push: he's one of about 5-6 designs (that Ed costume included) in a franchise filled with shirtless, muscled men, that are actually attractive to most man lovers. The fact that it seems the whole thing was an accident just hammers in the fact that characters like Urien/Gief aren't dressed like they are for the sake of fanservice.
As a fan of fighting games who couldn't care less about esports on their own and who barely watches tornaments... I want Capcom to give me the option for a more conservative Laura. I want them to cater to me, a fan. What I want as a fan doesn't interfere with what you want, as a fan, so why do people keep acting like it does?
Have you ever played street Fighter ? Half of the designs are straight copies of JoJo characters
FanDeNintendo
Neo Member
If you see sexy outfits as a "problem" I would say the problem is not on those outfits...
Rufus is not in this game and I wouldn't say Birdie is fat at all so... Who's obese?
Rufus is not in this game and I wouldn't say Birdie is fat at all so... Who's obese?
Credit where credit is due, the new Laura costume is a lot better than what they've been giving her before. I'll let the cleavage slide because the degree of improvement from her previous costumes to her new one is so much better.
Ibuki's is a little much, but it's pretty much what female runners wear, except for the ninja scarf. Tracer has basically the same costume in OW and no one batted an eye at that. Granted Tracer got little shorts instead of what Ibuki got, but they're still both skin tight and leaving little to the imagination.
UcchedavÄda
Member
Are you kidding?