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Spec Ops The Line 5 Years Later by Raycevik
- Thread starter jg4xchamp
- Start date
My thoughts as well, I just can't agree with the consensus that Spec Ops has bad combat. Like you said, its nothing special but perfectly serviceable for what its trying to do.
I also know that some don't like the way the game handled its big "gotcha" moment, but even then I think it should be required reading of sorts, especially if you like modern military shooters.
Of all the shooters in the World, regardless of the gameplay - which I too am of the camp that considered it average-to-good but not complete shit - something like killing a load of US soldiers while Deep Purple's Hush is playing, will stick with me way longer than just another bog-standard modern military corridor-shooter with none of the sprinkling of psychological warfare and perhaps self-parodying.
I actually liked the climax to the single-player campaign because by that point you've kinda accepted the fact that whatever you or the player-character is fighting for ultimately has no meaning/point/reasoning which is a nice and fitting reflection on a lot of FPS campaigns around that time. Not even trying to sound pretentious or pseudo-intellectual, I was genuinely drawn into how odd/unsettling/disorientating the narrative was and liked it because of it.
That said, the White Phosphorous scene didn't hit me as hard as it did others.
I actually liked the climax to the single-player campaign because by that point you've kinda accepted the fact that whatever you or the player-character is fighting for ultimately has no meaning/point/reasoning which is a nice and fitting reflection on a lot of FPS campaigns around that time. Not even trying to sound pretentious or pseudo-intellectual, I was genuinely drawn into how odd/unsettling/disorientating the narrative was and liked it because of it.
That said, the White Phosphorous scene didn't hit me as hard as it did others.
NotTheGuyYouKill
Member
Spec Ops is probably one of the best military games made. Amazing narrative. The meta-narrative and its place as a response to games like COD is the icing on the cake.
Son Of Sparda
Member
One of the best stories that I've experienced in a game.
Drillary Clinton
Banned
If I were a philosophy professor in 20 year's I'd make Spec-Ops a requirement for the class. At least watching it.
Yeah, I feel the same way about SO combat as I do Witcher 3. Both games are masterpieces, both have combat that is serviceable. Nothing great, but it does what it needs to do. The things it does good it does them so well it makes up for that lack of shine.
PepsimanVsJoe
Member
sixteen-bit
Member
the multiplayer footage looks hilarious
I've always hated the argument that the gameplay is shit because it's supposed to be and that ties into the themes. If the game is an unfun slog mechanically few people are going to finish it so it's like saying that you wrote a terrible book on purpose.
Finally went back with the help of some guides that work to break the game as much as possible and beat it on FUBAR difficulty for the achievements. I still laugh at the design idea of making heavily armored enemies with a visor where their weak spot is.... their armor, and not the visor.
I do think Yager tried to make the most mechanically-competent third-person shooter they could, I've certainly played worse. I've never bought into the "intentionally mediocre gameplay to prove a point" theory.
I think the entire point of the game is that you're supposed to be engrossed in the moment to moment gameplay and not really questioning any of it, so that the twist actually does take you by surprise. I think Yager banked on many players not even processing that they were killing American soldiers with friendly fire for large parts of the game (they same way you can mindlessly go through an entire CoD campaign without even realising where in the world you're supposed to be or who you're shooting at for whatever reasons), even though it's INCREDIBLY obvious.
I think the entire point of the game is that you're supposed to be engrossed in the moment to moment gameplay and not really questioning any of it, so that the twist actually does take you by surprise. I think Yager banked on many players not even processing that they were killing American soldiers with friendly fire for large parts of the game (they same way you can mindlessly go through an entire CoD campaign without even realising where in the world you're supposed to be or who you're shooting at for whatever reasons), even though it's INCREDIBLY obvious.
Human Trashcan
Banned
Got about halfway through the video, it's okay but his analysis is fairly shallow. The whole point of the white phosphorous scene is that the player has no choice, even if you know those are civvies. The game is commenting on player agency and the relationship between the game/developer and the player. But this guy is 22 based on him saying he was 17 when the game came out so I hope he keeps at it.
And BioShock did it better and five years earlier.
adamsappel
Member
What a great game this was! I really liked how the start screen changed as you played. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEPNisyfjnY
I don't know anything about this content, but when looking for examples of the screen, I came across this detailed play-through: http://tiltingatpixels.com/post/Spec-Ops-The-Line-1/
I also didn't think the gameplay was shitty. It wasn't as accomplished as others, but it wasn't a hindrance to play.
I don't know anything about this content, but when looking for examples of the screen, I came across this detailed play-through: http://tiltingatpixels.com/post/Spec-Ops-The-Line-1/
I also didn't think the gameplay was shitty. It wasn't as accomplished as others, but it wasn't a hindrance to play.
Started this game but only got so far. Not really sure why people hold it up as some shining temple. Seems okay, might try and finish it one day. Gameplay was nothing special at all and I found the story to be massively overrated.
Sure sure there is a twist OMG. Yeah, that doesn't solve everything and make up for all the problems. Gameplay was bog standard gunplay. Not great at all.
Sure sure there is a twist OMG. Yeah, that doesn't solve everything and make up for all the problems. Gameplay was bog standard gunplay. Not great at all.
there's a scene early on where you fall through a skylight and go down throughout a building and exit it and come out on top of a skyscraper. Anyone thinking about it more than not at all should be clued in there, if not earlier, that something is amiss.
Watching the video this thread is about could help!
mhmmmmm....
For real. I fucking hate military shooters and this is one of the gems from last gen imo.
I only felt one gameplay area ever felt underwhelming, the super soldier. Everything else felt like a competently designed 3rd person shooter. It didn't blow the doors off the genre's mechanics, but I never felt it was broken either. It serves the narratives just as well
And that for me was where the game shined. I don't necessarily agree with the videos assessment of some of the meta-narrative elements, but they're open to interpretation, and that alone is worthy of praise. Other shooters, whether they be jingoistic or attempt to show that war is bad (with the same gameplay for either argument, usually), everything is to be taken as face value and nothing more, move to the next firefight. SOTL is showing you several things at once and you need to put them together and draw your own conclusions.
As good as the game is, the story does make it rather hard to follow up. I suppose Spec Ops could be TakeTwo's anti-shooter franchise, deconstruct the shooter genre and the ideas inherent in going to war (it's not like the real world doesn't offer plenty to work with) different in each game, but I can't see a followup sticking with the same Heart of Darkness through-line nor do I see it working if a new game were straight military shooter either.
The gameplay wasn't Vanquish but I certainly didn't find it bad or mind-numbing. Heck I found it more satisfying than any of Naughty Dog's shooters just because the basic enemies didn't feel so spongey.
I think my first playthrough was on Hard. It was compelling how my desperation and stress as a player grew as the player character's stress and viciousness grew. Those trajectories perfectly intersected at the melee kills; I increasingly needed to pursue them for ammo and this fed directly into Walker's increasing savagery. The first time that realization struck was a "Woah!" moment for sure.
But limiting the talk of gameplay to just combat with enemies is ignoring a large part of what the game does differently and interestingly. At certain points, the melee kills sometimes included, the narrative and gameplay are allowed to become one because the developers keep you in complete control during thematic events. That is really pretty uncommon and exemplary.
I think my first playthrough was on Hard. It was compelling how my desperation and stress as a player grew as the player character's stress and viciousness grew. Those trajectories perfectly intersected at the melee kills; I increasingly needed to pursue them for ammo and this fed directly into Walker's increasing savagery. The first time that realization struck was a "Woah!" moment for sure.
But limiting the talk of gameplay to just combat with enemies is ignoring a large part of what the game does differently and interestingly. At certain points, the melee kills sometimes included, the narrative and gameplay are allowed to become one because the developers keep you in complete control during thematic events. That is really pretty uncommon and exemplary.
yeah it can't work. but it'd be cool.
Anyone know if it runs better on 360 or vice versa?
7DollarHagane
Banned
At this point just go with whatever controller you're most comfortable with or whatever system you still have hooked up. It's going to look a little messy no matter what when going back to sub 720p last gen.
Help what? Convince me the gameplay is not mediocre as hell? What?
The point is what is a story twist going to do to fix the mediocre gameplay?
I'm all up for finishing it at some point, but I have better games to play in spades and way too many of them as it is.
-tetsuo-
Unlimited Capacity
Please stop with this
I think I'm one of the few people who genuinely enjoyed actually playing this! I thought it was a perfectly fine shooter which was elevated by everything else. I don't think I would have liked the game half as much if I felt it was a total chore to play.
I really need to play it again, adore its art style.
I really need to play it again, adore its art style.
EVA UNIT 01
Member
How's the PC version?
Script of the Bridge
Banned
Great.
Zap Rowsdower
Banned
It's this. Spec Ops is pretentious as hell. A lot of its set-pieces are hackneyed and forced and it actively loathes getting the player involved in its proceedings. It just feels super amateur. Iji, a freeware game made by one guy, was a far better critique of violence in video games and it came out a few years before. And now when you have games like NIER, LISA, and Undertale it makes Spec Ops look even worse.
EVA UNIT 01
Member
Well then I'll give it a shit..even though $30 seems rediculous...does it go on sale often?
5 years later and y'all still stuck on authorial intent
Mess
It's 5 bucks like every other week
Mess
It's 5 bucks like every other week
Help to understand what people appreciate about it. And no, it's not the mediocre gameplay. This isn't Tetris, much more goes into games like these than the basic gameplay loop. There's plenty of shooters with better gameplay, but not really that many with better narrative and actually mature themes.
ginger ninja
Banned
Got this on PC after the crazy praise. But the shooting ia so shit I gave up few levels in.
I find people overrating this game like no tomorrow because of some story that would barely make C-tier in Hollywood. IDK. Seems kinda weird all told.
I played about half of it, and never found the time to continue. Insisting this as a top 25 game of all time is so laughable as to be crazy unless you have only played 25 games.
I'm not saying it's bad. And if I go back to it maybe I will end up liking it more. But so far ehhhhhhhhh.
That's true, but Hollywood is also trash, so as a compass doesn't mean much.
It's definitely a thing that depends on what games you really like though.
Dr. Carroll
Banned
Call of Duty: Black Ops II's sequence where the game tries to trick you -- successfully, in most cases, if achievements are to be believed -- into
was a lot more effective than the extremely hamfisted attempt Spec Ops makes at guilt tripping you for firing the white phosphorus and magically hitting the civilians even though your shells landed nowhere near. I saw that twist coming a mile off, and tried to avoid it, but nooooo, the game had a MESSAGE it needed to convey, logic be darned. Spec Ops is definitely a game worth playing, but it really would have benefited from the player truly being responsible for their actions, instead of being railroaded into almost every "DO YOU FEEL BAD YET?" scenario.
shooting Mason
Jangowuzhere
Banned
You're out of your mind
When I first played that sequence, I KNEW it was Mason. My first instinct was to shoot the guards and allow him to escape, but no, the game considers that a failure. Instead, the way to save him is to...shoot him in the leg? What? That makes no damn sense at all. If you don't kill him, then what's to actually stop the guards from doing so? It was some 90's adventure game logic bullshit.
brickarts295
Member
Easily one of the best blind rentals I have ever played. Went in for easy trophies, came out a changed gamer. Dat Phosphorus scenes had me like...
Zack Zavage
Member
Do you know Matthewmatosis? He's at least as good. I personally think he's even a tiny bit better at dissecting the games, especially in regards to the gameplay and game design.