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Jaxel- On the big Tournament Organizers in the Fighting Game Community

It almost sounds like nobody can make anything approaching a living in the FGC. How is this sustainable?

It's not. That's why people claiming that TO's are caking off their tournaments are fucking ridiculous. I've been helping run final round for 12 years and believe me, we aren't making cash and rolling around in luxury cars and shit.
 

kazuo

Member
Sega did us a favor? They ensured VF's failure outside of Japan by not releasing timely ports.

VF had failed in the USA long before they decided to stop porting, which was just after VF5. They absolutely did everyone a favor by releasing VF5FS outside of Japan.

They've supported the game by lugging the arcade cabinet around various locations in the USA, as well as with Sega Cup tournaments and a side tournament at Evolution last year.

What more do you want from them? What other publisher has provided that level of support to what is unquestionably a niche game, even in Japan?

Unrelated to Jaxel's rant, but I would cut Bifuteki and give the spot to Jaxel if only to drastically improve the quality of the stream.

Do you think any TO wants anything to do with Jaxel after everything he has been ranting about has been proven to be outright false or an exaggeration at best?
 
Do you think any TO wants anything to do with Jaxel after everything he has been ranting about has been proven to be outright false or an exaggeration at best?

If there's anything the FGC is good at doing it's forgiving and forgetting. Well more the latter than the former haha.
 

Shouta

Member
Fine, pick someone else. As long as it ain't Bifuteki.

Agreed. From customer perspective, i.e. viewer, Bifuteki is incredibly bad. His stream is bad and he's bad to viewers themselves. I've actually avoided watching his stream unless I absolutely have to.
 
I feel the same about Bifuteki. Unless there's a game I really want to watch, like really really REALLY want to watch and it's not on another stream for the event, then yeah sure. Any other time, I'll pass. I'm not one to chime in on stream monster running jokes most of the time, but Pack It Up is one of the few I actually will.
 

Timedog

good credit (by proxy)
Regardless of whether or not tournaments make money, SRK really should have paid him for the website work on a major website like that.
 

JBourne

maybe tomorrow it rains
I won't watch Bifuteki's stream. He always does a poor job, and is hostile to viewers who give him any feedback. I don't think he's capable of improving, either.

I'm hoping to see Art run more tournament streams. His casual streams are great, and the King of GGPO tourneys were always excellent. Dude knows his stuff and really cares about the quality. I was really impressed when I watched the CW5 archive.
 
Regardless of whether or not tournaments make money, SRK really should have paid him for the website work on a major website like that.

Yeah but that's why doing spec work or otherwise not setting up a contract for an agreed-upon amount at the beginning of any freelance work is so risky. People have to go out of their way to not exploit you, because they already have what they want and paying you becomes a separate thing they have to do as a courtesy. Theoretically it works the same as having a contract to start with or getting an advance, but if you try to negotiate a fee afterwards it's problematic because you have no leverage, and oftentimes if the client isn't made aware of how much the work actually costs and it's too late for them to consider alternatives (thereby feeling like you put them into a corner).

In my experience these things rarely happen because someone wakes up in the morning and decides to try and screw a web developer out of a couple hundred dollars, it mostly happens because of a poor working relationship and making it easy for someone to not pay you and weighing their options heavily in favor of doing so. It's not uncommon for freelance non-contract work to end up like this, so it's hard to take seriously as evidence of EVO consistently misappropriating funds or some sort of grand conspiracy.
 

Lost Fragment

Obsessed with 4chan
I don't think VxG cares about the reputations of who they bring in since there are several people of ill repute heavily involved in that whole thing. They should bring in John Nelson to run the Marvel 2 casino thing or whatever.
 
I don't think VxG cares about the reputations of who they bring in since there are several people of ill repute heavily involved in that whole thing. They should bring in John Nelson to run the Marvel 2 casino thing or whatever.

Might as well hire Fanatiq to commentate too at that point.
 

ZPs

Member
Bifuteki is probably the opposite of Jaxel. Jaxel is an above average streamer who's apparently a diva personality who no one likes behind the scenes. Bifuteki is a terrible streamer who's probably well liked by people behind the scenes.
 

Sixfortyfive

He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
Regardless of whether or not tournaments make money, SRK really should have paid him for the website work on a major website like that.
For sure.

But honestly, it's not even that. If SRK wanted to tell Jaxel to fuck off and go about fixing their site their own way or through a different outlet, then whatever, but after they dumped him the site remained in a borderline-unusable state for months. SRK was the one and only reason I ever installed Adblock in the first place, and activity on the forums over there still seems way down in a lot of places, but it's not like I'm really keeping track or anything.

I was also pretty much reading the relevant thread about it all right around when Jaxel was banned. Pretty raw deal, 'cause every issue he brought up was legit and being echoed by everyone else anyway.

Goddamn. The Bifuteki hate is strong in this thread. He's not that bad with what he's working with most of the time.
"Not that bad" compared to whom? How many somewhat-significant streams have you watched that are as consistently poor?

And "what he's working with" usually isn't a good excuse, either. I mean, things like venue internet are always a crapshoot, sure, and sometimes you just have really bad luck with one computer component or another crapping out at the worst time, but it's not hard to find capture equipment that doesn't completely fuck up the saturation, or audio equipment that is, well, audible, and most streamers I know can manage at least that much without simultaneously begging for donations and droning on and on about how they're sacrificing oh so much for such a selfless service.

Not like I think VxG should dump him at this point either, though, 'cause it'd be kind of a dick move to go back on a business arrangement that's already set now.
 
For sure.

But honestly, it's not even that. If SRK wanted to tell Jaxel to fuck off and go about fixing their site their own way or through a different outlet, then whatever, but after they dumped him the site remained in a borderline-unusable state for months. SRK was the one and only reason I ever installed Adblock in the first place, and activity on the forums over there still seems way down in a lot of places, but it's not like I'm really keeping track or anything.

I was also pretty much reading the relevant thread about it all right around when Jaxel was banned. Pretty raw deal, 'cause every issue he brought up was legit and being echoed by everyone else anyway.


"Not that bad" compared to whom? How many somewhat-significant streams have you watched that are as consistently poor?

And "what he's working with" usually isn't a good excuse, either. I mean, things like venue internet are always a crapshoot, sure, and sometimes you just have really bad luck with one computer component or another crapping out at the worst time, but it's not hard to find capture equipment that doesn't completely fuck up the saturation, or audio equipment that is, well, audible, and most streamers I know can manage at least that much without simultaneously begging for donations and droning on and on about how they're sacrificing oh so much for such a selfless service.

Not like I think VxG should dump him at this point either, though, 'cause it'd be kind of a dick move to go back on a business arrangement that's already set now.

He's had his ups and downs, but he's improving. And that's what counts the most. The heart.
 

Chavelo

Member
He's had his ups and downs, but he's improving. And that's what counts the most. The heart.

Hahahahaha, to who? The viewers? For fucking up a service that people.... view?

come-on-son1.jpg


It's not even about his performance, but more about how he tries to cover it up. He basically think's he amazing half of the time, while for the other half he just doesn't give a single fuck and shuts down anyone down that says otherwise.
Might as well give him a medal with a smiley face on it that says "I PARTICIPATED!" for effort.
Which is what the opportunity of streaming VxG is.
 

Freshmaker

I am Korean.
In my experience these things rarely happen because someone wakes up in the morning and decides to try and screw a web developer out of a couple hundred dollars, it mostly happens because of a poor working relationship and making it easy for someone to not pay you and weighing their options heavily in favor of doing so. It's not uncommon for freelance non-contract work to end up like this, so it's hard to take seriously as evidence of EVO consistently misappropriating funds or some sort of grand conspiracy.

Given how prone Jaxel is to wax poetic over the majesty of the free market, I don't get why he wasn't operating with contracts in the first place.
 

Lost Fragment

Obsessed with 4chan
Having "heart" and going out of your way to provide a desired service for little reward is commendable, but he doesn't get an A for effort. He should be pretty far removed from 1st grade by now. I do think some of the crap he's gotten has been way over the top, but yea.
 

HK-47

Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
And he praises Smash and MLG events, which is hilarious. MLG events aren't great so no one goes unless they want that Esports money... and if Smash events are so great, why'd they pony up $100,000 to get into EVO? Cuz most of their tournaments are adhoc shitshows that rely on randoms to bring gamecubes and 13" CRT TV's and expect Round Robin for everything. Oh, and then they steal a bunch.

Nice painting skills you got there. The rest of the FGC is no blameless saint when it comes to the FGC/Smash interaction.
 

alstein

Member
A lot of his assertions at TO's and the community are flat out wrong. Hotels usually do not give out venue space for free. They can give you a discount for booking rooms, sure, but free is hard to come by. Even then, it's not a risk free venture, you have to guarantee a large number of room nights rented, otherwise you're on the hook for the event space and/or rooms... and that's a pretty huge price tag. I'm pretty sure Big E took a huge bath on that Summer Jam when a hurricane hit the east coast.

And he praises Smash and MLG events, which is hilarious. MLG events aren't great so no one goes unless they want that Esports money... and if Smash events are so great, why'd they pony up $100,000 to get into EVO? Cuz most of their tournaments are adhoc shitshows that rely on randoms to bring gamecubes and 13" CRT TV's and expect Round Robin for everything. Oh, and then they steal a bunch.

Personally, I think official streamers SHOULD get a free room. I'm going to compare majors to anime cons- I think the comparison has some merit.

Major guests who are invited in, tend to get free hotels. Not saying you should do this for everyone, but the folks running the primary/secondary streams- you should. That's about a $250 cost, if needbe raise venue fees by a quarter to pay for it. (assuming 2 guys streaming)

As for MLG, the real issue is the lack of Capcom games, which wasn't/isn't MLG's fault. I'll say this from attending a MLG event, it was the most fun I had last year as a VF player- they showed some love for our game, and the VF community appreicated that, even if it was just 15 of us showing up and GT just taking our money. (some of that was due to Summer Jam causing a conflict- if MLG had a better date, GT would have had more competition)

The big issues with MLG is that the stream schedule is not fun for spectators (the MLG Model doesn't work for FG's and they're unable/unwilling to compromise), and the lack of major games. (they just don't get to run Marvel/AE) Really, it isn't in MLG"s interest to run B-tier fighting games, as much as I enjoyed it.

The arguments made about Smash players- at least the stealing part is common for FGC events. Hell, at least year's EVO, someone's prize stick got stolen (Skullgirls). I do think Smash community is pretty much near the bottom of folks I want to be around, but they're no worse than anime game players. (harsh but true, that smell in NEC was worse than having to once be around two Morrigan/Lilith cosplayers who wore the same costume for 4 days)

Also, choosing Bifuteki over Jaxel is a dumb decision just from a quality perspective. Bifuteki is so bad, even my redneck-style commentary would be better. Jaxel may bring backstage drama, but at least he brings quality.

If you could find someone as good as Jaxel who didn't bring the drama, or close to as good, get them. Bifuteki is not that.
 
The arguments made about Smash players- at least the stealing part is common for FGC events. Hell, at least year's EVO, someone's prize stick got stolen (Skullgirls). I do think Smash community is pretty much near the bottom of folks I want to be around, but they're no worse than anime game players. (harsh but true, that smell in NEC was worse than having to once be around two Morrigan/Lilith cosplayers who wore the same costume for 4 days)

I'm still debating how should I feel about this...

I apologize for my lacking contribution.
 

alstein

Member
I'm still debating how should I feel about this...

I apologize for my lacking contribution.

At least they looked good in it.

It took 3-4 days to overpower my sense of smell. I'm pretty resistant to funk. The anime room at NEC just took an hour. I deliberately played Power Instinct in there to try and get away from it, and because anime folks didn't like a real man's game.

Did meet Sanoshi there, so it wasn't a total loss- which I had known she had worked on SG, I would have asked her about that and said something.
 
Given how prone Jaxel is to wax poetic over the majesty of the free market, I don't get why he wasn't operating with contracts in the first place.

Because when you do things you love & believe in sometimes your thought process isn't in the right place and you become blind to things you'd catch in the correct mindset.

He was thinking with his heart & love for the community and the people he was dealing with were thinking business with their heads. And that isn't even a knock to those Jaxel has a problem with and that they weren't doing the same either. Business and pleasure as they say.

There's a way to be level about it on both spectrums but you have to be responsible for you first and foremost. If you can't do that and you get run over because of such you only have yourself to blame.

Rule of thumb about anything, GET THAT SHIT IN WRITING! Save yourself a headache or 2.
 
To be honest despite how terrible the people in the fighting community can be it seems to me that he accepted their behaviour and had no problem doing it all for free for years. He is also to blame for that. So this is more him venting out due to not getting the recognition he hoped for despite all those clear signs that they were just interesting in using him.
 

Banananana

Neo Member
Hell of a read, makes me grateful for the amazing SC community.

SC community really is the polar opposite of the FGC.
A scene of 99% players vs. 99% spectators. Venture-capital driven and corporate vs.volunteer-driven and grassroots. Golfclaps vs. popoffs. etc.
 
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