The absolute subjectivity of gaming makes this a silly battle, anyway. I'm off to end the universe with some science experiments and create a completely new one!
Could use some more polygons.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Did Monolith Soft run over Square-Enix with 'X'?
- Thread starter mocolostrocolos
- Start date
Could use some more polygons.
sublimit
Banned
I must admit, I really enjoy Xenoblade. I feel bad being so harsh in this thread.
It's just weird that people try to place it on some pedestal above recent entries in the genre, when the story itself is as JRPG as one can get. And believe me, I like that. I want JRPG stupidness in my JRPGs, and XB is filled with it.
It's just weird that people try to place it on some pedestal above recent entries in the genre, when the story itself is as JRPG as one can get. And believe me, I like that. I want JRPG stupidness in my JRPGs, and XB is filled with it.
Yeah let's wait another 6 years until they polish it enough.
I wish Monolith put as much thought and care into their characters' clothes as Square does. They still have much to learn from Papa SE.
They've done FFXII. It's somewhat similar in scope, though Versus is pretty much the next step from that. And just because they have never done it doesn't mean they never will or aren't capable of. Versus is to XIII what XII was to X during PS2 generation.
It hasn't been on backburner for the whole six years. At first it was just announced too early (and at that point they were planning to release the games at regular intervals, beginning with XIII in probably 2008 and then continuing with then-Agito-now-Type-0 a year or two after that and finishing the FNC trio with Versus a year or two after that). Then there have been somewhat valid reasons for putting it on backburner. They announced the FNC saga too early, ran into problems with the tools, delaying all of the projects. As years went by after E3 2006, they HAD to get at least ONE of the announced games out, so they put Versus (the much more ambitious project that would take a lot longer to finish) on the backburner for a year to finish the simpler game FFXIII.
After FFXIII had been finished, they got to work and what they achieved in that time was pretty much shown in that January 2011 trailer (as in, they got a really great looking game running). Then the second disaster happened, XIV. For most of 2011 it seems Nomura & his team still got to work on the game without any hindrance, given that in the Summer of 2011 he said they were entering the "Full Development" phase (usually in the case of SQEX, once that happens the game is out within a year, even much less with smaller scope projects). In Fall 2011 Nomura commented how they had finished building the world for Versus and how he had completed a run-through through the world of Versus. So development seemed to be advancing fine. Then... Square Enix decides they'll put a hell of a lot of people to help fix XIV in a shorter time. Again, XIV is an important game for Square Enix's profitability, so it's easy to see why it would be given precedence over Versus.
Well, I'm not sure what kind of team is working on the game at the moment. I mean, it's probably not completely halted, but most of SQEX's internal teams ARE working on XIV 2.0, so even if it's not completely halted, I don't think it's advancing too quickly.
Still, it's idiotic to call Versus XIII's development itself disastrous. That would imply something has gone wrong in the particular game's development (i.e. Duke Nukem Forever and all of its different iterations, switched development teams etc.). Versus XIII's biggest problem is that it was announced too early. I doubt it's the first game in existence that has had to make way for other projects during development, it's just pretty much the most high profile one that was announced when it was hardly in concept phase. We simply haven't heard about the other projects because they have been kept secret until they HAVE gotten around to develop them.
It's been a problematic generation for Square Enix as they have had to update their outdated development methods (that problem already existed from the beginning of PS2 era, it only culminated at the beginning of this one) WHILE they also moved on to multiplatform development. Some projects have had to suffer for that and it just happens to be Versus.
Square Enix staff still had a lot of creative input/control in many of those games (Theatrhythm & Dragon Quest IX for sure). And with games like TWEWY, I'm pretty sure they ended up having internal staff work on the game as well, not to even mention I'm pretty sure a lot of Jupiter's staff jumped over to Square Enix once development was finished.
Well there's also the-
Yeah, also the iOS games. Granted, I think FFD ain't half bad, but All the Bravest? What were they THINKING?
Exentryk
Member
Smiles and Cries
Member
the world they are using is still too big, they have to scale back somewhere, I trust this team to push the Wii U as far as they pushed the Wii with Xenoblade
but I don't think the character artists can match Square in that department
I'm not sure if this is sarcasm or not.
Fact is, I haven't seen any news about Versus. I don't know if anyone else has or if there's going to be an announcement at E3 (ha, 2014), but Monolith is delivering.
Delivering Hard.
tiggerkiddo
Member
Well the last time Squeenix gave us a really good RPG on that scale was XII so they've been left in the dust for awhile. Who knows if they can get back to their former glory but I hope so.
I honestly don't think it'll be much of a duel at all. Versus will be a huge deal.
X looks really neat, but people need to keep things in perspective.
uh yeah, sure bud lol. Never ceases to amaze me how many will call Atlus the kings of JRPG when they haven't even released a single one this gen. Quite the regal track record.
Are Level 5 still kings of the world, or is that out of style now?
MisterHero
Super Member
This is perfectly acceptable for me, given how little we actually see of the faces while playing the game. Even in Xenoblade's cutscenes, the models did a good job being expressive. How much more does it need?
sublimit
Banned
They have both made some bad (and some great) costume designs. And no they have nothing to learn from SE IMO.
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
Exactly. And there seems to be quite simply no deception whatsoever.
Which Square seems to like doing.
Exentryk
Member
To be really honest, if both these games come out at the same time, I am not sure which one I'll play first.
Monolith basically does Phantasy Star / Star Ocean level character design, or worse. It's not comparable to the best of SQEX. Monolith can make some gorgeous environments, but their characters suck, big time.
Maybe in the spring time. Nomura is hibernating so he doesn't catch a cold.
for me it was less of a "this face needs more polygons" and more the fact that they showed a gorgeous looking game with a pretty sub-par face at the end. I don't mind it, but it was weird
Supermanisdead
Member
It needs 6 more years of switching between real-time and CG and back again.
I think the connection is that SE is terrible and incompetent at developing HD titles at their internal Japanese studios (save for a few exceptions) whereas a smaller team with fewer resources (Monolith) was able to produce an impressive-looking open world RPG in a reasonable time period.
Because when SE internal studios are set to a time period of 2 or 3 years for a development cycle the only way they seem to manage it is with heavy asset reuse, or we get something like Lightning Returns.
I actually find this to be an interesting point. You're right. They've done XII. A game I love. So I never understood why XIII was such a marked decline in terms of design and ambition. Or why Versus XIII would ever be considered that difficult to create.
As for the development cycle, everything you're describing to me shows a company that truly does not have its shit together. Every home console offering this generation has been garbage, and the garbage has been so severe that staff has had play damage control across projects. It's ridiculous. I don't know how anyone can see how this company has been the past generation and feel anything but disappointment and have reservations about Versus.
I was being facetious.
H_Prestige
Banned
I'm not denying SE is incompetent (pretty much everyone is more competent than them, so not exactly a huge milestone to achieve). I just saw a bunch of people saying this game looks like Versus XIII. I'm not seeing a single similarity. Totally different aesthetic, this game being the now typical anime theme of wacky futuristic tech combined with prehistoric looking environments and creatures.
XII, with its own troubled development history, had a story that felt half finished, and a world that was never utilized to its fullest. These things happen. Outside of things like the team moving to work on XIII and things like that, I think one of the things causing Versus XIII are the absolute freedom the team are afforded. With such freedom, that can lead to the game going through many different iterations while being developed, and it can lead to lots of ideas being thought up and scrapped. The game likely feels much different at this stage (whatever stage that is) than it did in its original form.
I think the best days of SE are over. Personally, I'm more excited for "X" then Versus XIII.
Certain part of it being the assumption that it will actually come out in a TIMELY fashion. One year from now? Perfectly fine for me.
Since Versus XIII is in development for I don't even know how long anymore, it really has to live up to the huge amount of peoples expectations - and mine - and to be honest, I don't think it will.
Certain part of it being the assumption that it will actually come out in a TIMELY fashion. One year from now? Perfectly fine for me.
Since Versus XIII is in development for I don't even know how long anymore, it really has to live up to the huge amount of peoples expectations - and mine - and to be honest, I don't think it will.
MagiusNecros
Gilgamesh Fan Annoyance
The decline is due to splitting yourself into 3 teams in which one doesn't know what the hell they are doing and consistently gets greenlighted.
One has a strong handheld product but was delegated to a vampire system.
One is in dev hell or has stagnated because it isn't "time" to unveil it.
And another is pooling all resources into a subscription based money pump MMO.
With the occasional gem like BDFF and a plethora of iOS games that little find interest in.
One has a strong handheld product but was delegated to a vampire system.
One is in dev hell or has stagnated because it isn't "time" to unveil it.
And another is pooling all resources into a subscription based money pump MMO.
With the occasional gem like BDFF and a plethora of iOS games that little find interest in.
Hype is silly for anything. There's no reason to hype yourself up. The only thing I truly expect from Versus XIII is something that I will enjoy.
SpacePirate Ridley
Member
Yeah, just rebuilt XIV: ARR in two years while still updating the current one; a feat that's totally unprecedented in games development, all while still making XIII-2 and LR, and Bravely Default, and Dragon Quest X, and a new FFXI expansion, and Kingdom Hearts 3DS, and Theatrhythm (the only publisher that really is close to matching their output is Ubisoft, but they barely make any handheld, iOS or social games.).
It's fine to say they've made some gigantic mistakes this gen, namely XIV 1.0. But they're not incompetent. It may be cool to say that these days, but it's bullshit.
Monolith putting out a big open world JRPG in standard definition in 2012 isn't impressive. It's a great game, but SQEX managed to do that with FFXI and XII years before. The only really impressive thing is that they've got their HD game up and running so fast. Credit to them there. One unexpected trailer that looks pretty much identical to their last game but has some very neat vehicles added in. That's really it. We only saw one area so far, so it may be quite a ways off.
lol did you just compare the character designs of stuff like this to star ocean the game with the creepy little animu girls.
xenoblade character design where fine but the ingame face textures not so much but I would still put it above squares recent k-pop idols and their bad outfits serah,noel).
Doctor Decimate
Member
this.
What AAA game did square release this gen that is better then xenoblade?
Square games are a fucking joke now.
It's entirely subjective. There are many, like myself, who would consider Final Fantasy XIII a better overall game than Xenoblade.
Edit: Videogames are best consumed like music, instead of the current review scores/metacritic/hype/whatever. With music, reviews and stuff are worthless. Music is a personal thing, and tastes vary. Video games are similar, I think. Ones experience with a video game will be much different than anothers, and it can be very personal. Their view is not worth more or less than any other person.
Lol to each their own i guess.
SpacePirate Ridley
Member
You cant be fucking serious. Just look at those two images, even when X screen its fucking compressed like shit its 1000 time better than the one above.
The 3 super loyal square fans that neogaf have are starting to look insane with some of their post the last few weeks. They treat square more like a religion than a company, and they act like if they were selling the fucking bible or something.
Yeah, what was I thinking?
That character has more charisma than any shitty one that square has release since the ps2 era, and the design works making it that way. Try again.
I'll try and save a link to this post for when we get sales numbers for both games. Should be pretty hilarious.
Now who sounds absurd?
That Final Fantasy Versus XIII screen is also 2 years old now. A little sad, a little funny, but still.
Ghost_Protocol
Member
Yeah, what was I thinking?
Dude, you have a Lightning Return Avatar, just stop it, it's not pretty.
Also, what is a mascot character!?!
http://i.imgur.com/HWPGSlB.jpg
Exentryk
Member
Haha! My reaction exactly! XD
sublimit
Banned
We were talking about costume designs and my point was that this
or this
are not much worse than this
or this
I guarantee you that X will have more quality then versus. Absolutely nothing that square has done in the last 5 years tells me otherwise.
SpacePirate Ridley
Member
I dont give shit about sales, a give shit about the quality im playing.
Do you have shares at square?
And you know what. Lets play a game.
X will sell more copies than versus.
You know why? Because versus will sell 0 copies.
Absurd... lol.
Yeah, what was I thinking?
You hating on the Heropon? Aw hell no. I ignored your avatar but c'mon now son.
Also SE should be the last on the list regarding good character designs when you look at some of the XIII designs.
Says the guy with the obvious Otaku pedo bait character as an avatar?
Most SE's character designers suck. All Amano's characters look the same, blonde and extremely effeminate, and Nomura's style only appeals to 14 year old Lost Prophet fans. Monolith are only missing out on Akihiko Yoshida, who happens to be the best in the buisness, so basically every company is missing out on him.