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Benzychenz
Member
(09-16-2017, 09:25 AM)
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So I beat this a couple nights ago and have been working on the post game and platinum trophy. Felt like discussing it a bit and sharing my thoughts.

It actually wasn't until the final boss that I realised just how bad the combat is. I'd had gripes up until that point (some major ones too), but it was all pretty manageable. Nothing demanded too much from the player.
But my god, that final boss.

Gripe #1: Casting any spell that initiates a 'cutscene' completely resets any action.
You can literally be 99% through casting a heal when an enemy will use a spell, and afterwards you'll be standing there like you weren't doing anything.
This doesn't even just reset spells, but items too. Multiple times during this fight I'd use a resurrection item, the healing animation was playing out, the enemy used a spell, and then afterwards the teammate is still dead and the item is back in my inventory.

Gripe #2: Telling your teammates to 'defend' is near useless.
The enemy starts casting a big attack, I cancel my attack, move the cursor over to hit defend, then give the 'all-out defense' command to my teammates. So Esther has the bright idea to change to her healing familiar and try to heal someone on 75%+ HP, takes a 200+ HP hit and dies. This also happened multiple times during the fight.

Gripe #3: Enemy spells come out too fast to even react.
The last point covered what happens when you do react in time, but that isn't always even possible. When you cast your own spell you're locked in to it for multiple seconds, and enemy spells can start and finish casting before you can even react, or if you do have a little bit of time you often have to choose between guarding yourself or giving the command to your teammates, because you simply don't have time for both.

Gripe #4: Enemies attack multiple times in succession.
This combined with the previous gripes is rage inducing. You eat a big hit, try to heal up, and then the boss uses another spell and completely cancels your heal. It isn't usually two big attacks in a row, but losing precious seconds of your heal animation is frustrating when everyone is on low health.

Gripe #5: Familiars pathing is bonkers.
You give an attack command and your familiar gets stuck behind shit, other enemies, your own teammates, or even just nothing in particular. So you cancel the attack, move into position, and then have to wait because for whatever reason the basic 'attack' command has a cooldown.

There's probably more so I'll leave it at that for now. Most of this was fairly minor for 99% of the game, but fuck me it all got incredibly frustrating at the end there.


Anyway, now for the good stuff!


I fucking adore this world!
All the locations are fantastic and varied, tons of great little towns, cool dungeons etc. The NPC's are really likable and fun, and the designs are incredible. The friendly characters, the boss fights, and all the little familiars along the way. Fantastic. Really like the fairies in particular, their town is such a charming place.

The story was really neat too. Exploring the world with your pals, getting stronger, making new friends, trying to save youer Mam, learning she was dead the whole time and taking comfort in knowing it wasn't all for nothing and you helped lots of people along the way.
Wasn't a big fan of the 'White Witch' stuff at the end though, felt really tacked on and useless. Afaik that whole plot was new in the PS3 version and Shadar was the main villain in the DS game? So that makes sense I suppose.

Music was really ace too and always boosted the game up.

Overall really great, 7-8/10 and I'll be buying the sequel day 1.
Nilua
Junior Member
(09-16-2017, 09:27 AM)
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I agree, but I actually think the combat system had potential. It really just needed a A.I that wasn't so fucking stupid.
CielTynave
Member
(09-16-2017, 09:30 AM)
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Yeah, pretty much my main reason for dropping the game after 15 hours was the combat. I loved the rest of the game though. I pretty much decided to get the 2nd game day one after they showed off the new combat system.
Benzychenz
Member
(09-16-2017, 09:31 AM)
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Originally Posted by Nilua

I agree, but I actually think the combat system had potential. It really just needed a A.I that wasn't so fucking stupid.

Oh yeah there was definitely potential there. Doesn't really matter when this is the final product though.
pagrab
Junior Member
(09-16-2017, 09:40 AM)
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Battle system was ok. It was the story where the game dropped the ball for me. It starts great (with mature themes) but ends up being a very boring cartoon for small kids.
MrSaturn99
Member
(09-16-2017, 12:46 PM)
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That the familiar combat isn't not only boring but undermines the characters is probably the game's biggest flaw.

It's mostly great otherwise, but that and the gradual increase of text-only scenes are what keep it from the masterpiece it wants to be.
Elandyll
Banned
(09-16-2017, 01:01 PM)
Yep. The combat, AI and gring had me dropping the game after about 20 hours, in spite of loving pretty much everything else.

I have high hopes for the sequel though, as it seems the combat has largely been revamped.
Earthpainting
Knows which side
the bread is buttered on.
(09-16-2017, 02:07 PM)
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Pretty much agree with everything in the OP, except I felt frustrated during pretty much ever boss battle. I quickly learned to use the stupidly overpowered Familiars, because anything else was just needless masochism. Like most Level 5 RPGs, you can tell the polish and care is mostly front-loaded, which makes the drops in quality so disappointing. A lot of its flaws are easily fixable in a sequel though, so I'm still open to giving that a shot.
Mr.Deadshot
Member
(09-16-2017, 02:09 PM)
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Never understood all the problems with the battle system that people have. I really, really liked it.
Spiritwalker
Member
(09-16-2017, 02:11 PM)
Yup, it's why I quit the game. Combat looks way better in the sequel thankfully.
butman
Member
(09-16-2017, 02:14 PM)
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Game was ok, but without the familiars/pokemon crap it would be so much better.
StereoVsn
Member
(09-17-2017, 02:41 AM)
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Thy really needed a pause option to issue commands and better AI or controls over team members. That would have resolved 80-90% of my issues. The game was good enough for me to push through the frustration but yeah, a PC/PS4 port with a bit sourced up combat would have been much welcomed.

The sequel looks great but I am kind of bummed that they just ditched the familiar system vs improving it as I actually liked that aspect.
Black Materia
Member
(09-17-2017, 02:42 AM)
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I really liked it! Especially bosses!
zeopower6
Member
(09-17-2017, 02:58 AM)
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Combat IMO was fine but the AI was odd at times.
Zukkoyaki
Member
(09-17-2017, 02:59 AM)
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Agreed OP, the combat was garbage. Thankfully the sequel looks far superior in that department.
BewilderedDragoon
Junior Member
(09-17-2017, 03:01 AM)
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Originally Posted by Mr.Deadshot

Never understood all the problems with the battle system that people have. I really, really liked it.

Same. I enjoyed it enough to put 100+ hours in the game and it's one of my favorite jrpgs of last gen.
Danjin44
Member
(09-17-2017, 03:07 AM)
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Originally Posted by BewilderedDragoon

Same. I enjoyed it enough to put 100+ hours in the game and it's one of my favorite jrpgs of last gen.

I dont have issue with combat itself but i do have issue with the AI.
autoduelist
Member
(09-17-2017, 03:12 AM)
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I plat'd the game. The battle system had some minor issues, but fundamentally I loved the concept. I definitely wouldn't say 'horrid', I'd say, a good start, now perfect it.

I really disliked the handholding in other parts of the game, though. I do not need to be told the answer to every puzzle before I get to do the puzzle [ie, picking emotions].
mstevens
Member
(09-17-2017, 03:12 AM)
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The familiars patching was the biggest offender for me. That said, I think the foundation is really solid and I wish they were going to fix it rather than scrap it.
Diablos
Member
(09-17-2017, 03:14 AM)
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It's not the best combat system ever, it's not particularly innovative or interesting, but it's also not awful and made the game all the more enjoyable overall imo.
MrDoctor
Member
(09-17-2017, 03:15 AM)
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combat was the good part of the game. it's the nick jr plot and formulaic bullshit you do between the fights that's the problem
Spring-Loaded
Member
(09-17-2017, 03:20 AM)
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All the things listed in the OP were problems, but the way all options were on a cycle exacerbated them all. Having to scroll through everything in between attack options and items always took up precious moments when each could've been on different buttons.

Hopefully 2 fixed that
GoldStarz
Member
(09-17-2017, 03:26 AM)
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I liked the combat system, it was interesting and different from any other action JRPG I can think of. I never had a problem with the first or second issue, but I don't think I used Oliver as often as I could have since it was safer to hide behind a familiar.

I didn't have an issue with the Familiars either, although realizing that the ones you have are kinda meh and having to revamp my whole lineup right before the penultimate (main story) dungeon was a bit of a pain.
tiebreaker
Member
(09-17-2017, 03:37 AM)
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#1 to #3 are all about timing. You'll have to get used to it, I guess? It could be annoying, I agree. At least items should have been instaneous.

#4, like most JRPGs, especially turn based, some bosses do multiple hits in one turn.

#5, no idea. I never noticed it.

Originally Posted by Spring-Loaded

All the things listed in the OP were problems, but the way all options were on a cycle exacerbated them all. Having to scroll through everything in between attack options and items always took up precious moments when each could've been on different buttons.

Hopefully 2 fixed that

Eh, it's not a big deal and it looks nice compared to the sequel. The game isn't frantic enough anyway that scrolling around would be a tiebreaker and It also pauses when you choose items/spells or picking target.
TheChaos0
Member
(09-17-2017, 03:38 AM)
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I must say that after hearing how bad and unbearable the combat system was when I got around to playing the game, I had zero problems with it. I found it fun actually. I think I've turned off ability use for party members and manually gave commands, can't remember because I didn't have an issue with the AI.
BewilderedDragoon
Junior Member
(09-17-2017, 03:45 AM)
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Originally Posted by Danjin44

I dont have issue with combat itself but i do have issue with the AI.

Yeah I agree that AI was one of the biggest problems with the game. I ended up playing through with the mindset that I shouldn't rely on the party members to get me through for the most part. With that said, I did grind quite a bit so I imagine I could have been much more frustrated if I were at a lower level and did everything I could but still had trouble progressing because my allies were useless at times.
Spring-Loaded
Member
(09-17-2017, 03:53 AM)
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Originally Posted by tiebreaker

Eh, it's not a big deal and it looks nice compared to the sequel. The game isn't frantic enough anyway that scrolling around would be a tiebreaker and It also pauses when you choose items/spells or picking target.

There definitely were moments where a split second made a difference between getting an attack out or getting hit by huge one.
GavinUK86
Member
(09-17-2017, 04:23 AM)
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Originally Posted by CielTynave

Yeah, pretty much my main reason for dropping the game after 15 hours was the combat. I loved the rest of the game though. I pretty much decided to get the 2nd game day one after they showed off the new combat system.

Same here. I still haven't finished it because of the horrible combat system. I want to, just irritates me. I might push through it at some point because of the sequel.
Derkon
Junior Member
(09-17-2017, 04:27 AM)
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Party AI was the biggest problem for me. Your companions either drained all their mana or stood around doing nothing, depending on which direction you gave them. The pet collision stuff was also really annoying, but with the big dino pets it ended up not mattering to much with the OP spell they could cast.
FiveSide
Banned
(09-17-2017, 04:28 AM)

Originally Posted by pagrab

Battle system was ok. It was the story where the game dropped the ball for me. It starts great (with mature themes) but ends up being a very boring cartoon for small kids.

This was my experience as well. The battle system wasn't great by any means, but it was serviceable. Certainly enough to carry a game that has other merits, like the presentation and the story.

One of those - the presentation - was great, but the story left a lot to be desired. Like you said, it started out interesting, then gradually devolved into a progressively more generic cliche storm.

Usually if I drop a game, it's in reaction to a specific event or moment of frustration. But in this case, it was a gradual falling off. I became less and less interested and engaged with the game, and eventually I reached the point where I was so unengaged that I didn't bother turning it back on.
Malio
Member
(09-17-2017, 04:33 AM)
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I enjoyed everything about this game including the battle system. Finding, and discovering the real BADASS monsters to fight for you was a blast. Cute story too.
RCU005
Junior Member
(09-17-2017, 04:33 AM)
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Am I the only one that loved the battle system? It took me a while to understand it and master it, but after that, it was so much fun! This was the first RPG that I didn't try to avoid fights, since I enjoyed it a lot.

Battle system aside, the game is EPIC in EPIC proportions.
Holundrian
Member
(09-17-2017, 04:46 AM)
I liked the framework but I wouldn't disagree that the balancing was horrid.
The game could have profited from enemies having turn rates making fast monsters more valuable and man other things.
Archtreyz
Member
(09-17-2017, 04:56 AM)
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I loved the battle system. Only problem with the game is how random catching familiars is.
breakfuss
Member
(09-17-2017, 05:00 AM)
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Charming little game. The presentation is top-notch. The music...I mean, there really are a lot of things to like about NNK. What brought it all crashing down for me were my brain dead AI companions. Made combat a huge displeasure. I couldn't even finish because of them.
Jake.
Member
(09-17-2017, 05:08 AM)
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i didn't like the system to start with (especially as your MP count is so low and you constantly have to run in circles), but it grew on me and by completion i was a fan. your AI squad are definitely idiots, though. fantastic game.
Meffer
Member
(09-17-2017, 05:30 AM)
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Wish the battle system was turn based like the DS version.
ZeoVGM
formerly omg rite
(09-17-2017, 05:31 AM)
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I don't agree. Had lots of fun with the battle system.
arturo2666
Banned
(09-17-2017, 05:55 AM)

Originally Posted by Benzychenz

The story was really neat too. Exploring the world with your pals, getting stronger, making new friends, trying to save youer Mam, learning she was dead the whole time and taking comfort in knowing it wasn't all for nothing and you helped lots of people along the way.
Wasn't a big fan of the 'White Witch' stuff at the end though, felt really tacked on and useless. Afaik that whole plot was new in the PS3 version and Shadar was the main villain in the DS game? So that makes sense I suppose.

Yep and agreed. Also, all the White Witch stuff makes it much more difficult to read the game as entirely part of Oliver's imagination (or rather, as him retreating into his mind and making a way to redeem himself and get over his ptsd from the guilt of being responsible for his mother's death). IIRC, if you took out the White Witch stuff that reading is basically airtight.
Edgeward
Member
(09-17-2017, 05:56 AM)
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Combat would be fine if your AI wasn't a straight up moron.
Benzychenz
Member
(09-18-2017, 09:08 AM)
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Just got the platinum.

That was actually really painless, probably took 20 hours or less from when the credits rolled.
Infinite_Daremo
Member
(09-18-2017, 09:17 AM)
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I enjoyed the game when it was just the MC in combat. Then the AI companions rolled in. I stopped playing. Brain dead AI burning all its MP on trash mobs. Fuck that shit.

I loved the world though and im looking forward to the sequel after seeing the combat system.
Philippo
Member
(09-18-2017, 09:32 AM)
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Yup, that title sums it up perfectly.

I also had issues with the side-quests and the cities feeling static and kind of lifeless.

Hope they fix some of these issues but i'm not holdin my breath.
black070
Member
(09-18-2017, 09:40 AM)
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Agreed, which makes the sequel so promising !

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