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TESV: Skyrim Game Informer info

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Songbird

Prodigal Son
Does GI mention if Jeremy Soule is involved? Might be Inon Zur after Fallout.

Going to miss Mysticism... I always took that and Illusion instead of Destruction.
 

Dennis

Banned
EviLore said:
I didn't expect otherwise, but this is still disappointing for reasons I've elaborated on recently.

Basically, when a game is designed around a fast travel system like Oblivion/FO3, the quests will regularly send you huge distances away because the designers know that you'll just fast travel to the closest spot you have unlocked. Turning fast travel off via a mod, or not using fast travel out of principle, is just setting yourself up for frustration since you'll be doing hour long fetch quests.

In a game like Morrowind, you have fast travel between major hubs, not between every little point of interest. So quests are designed organically, with a quest in a city generally having to do with that city, and a quest sending you a long distance is done with purpose behind it. Exploration becomes more meaningful since you're less likely to find things further away from the hub locations. There's no big arrow telling you where to go, you need to work things out based on landmarks and quest text.

In a game like Risen, exploration is the focus and there's no scaling or Oblivion style fast travel. Enemies become more exotic and dangerous the further you go from the safety of the big city. You unlock teleportation to a few specific spots in the game world many hours into the game when you've already explored most of it. There's no scaling or big arrow on a minimap to tell you where to go, you have to work things out based on landmarks and actually knowing the game world over time.

:/
I don't want to seem like a Debbie Downer but it was probably always certain that to get the full open-world, dangerous exploration-based hardcore RPG, we would have to wait for modders to create that game.

I never dared dream Betsheda would learn a lesson from Risen anyway
 

Barakov

Member
It's good to hear that the level scaling is soft capped. Too bad they're bringing level scaling back. Although it sounds like they're trying to at least to change it enough that it won't cause the problems it did in Oblivion. Then again mods will solve any problem that causes.

I really like the changes they're making to the quests and the conversations you have with NPCs. Overall, I think be able to sprint will probably be my favorite addition.
 
EviLore said:
In a game like Risen, exploration is the focus and there's no scaling or Oblivion style fast travel. Enemies become more exotic and dangerous the further you go from the safety of the big city. You unlock teleportation to a few specific spots in the game world many hours into the game when you've already explored most of it. There's no scaling or big arrow on a minimap to tell you where to go, you have to work things out based on landmarks and actually knowing the game world over time.

:O

I've pretty much ignored Risen (probably would've got it by now if there was a PS3 port), but from your description it sounds like it exemplifies what I loved most about Morrowind; the sense of exploration without any of the hand-holding bullshit of Oblivion. I'll definitely have to investigate it further (and pray it runs well on my laptop).

Simon Belmont said:
On the flipside, I don't really have hours to spare walking back and forth between the same places. It may break the game for a person like you, but it makes the game for a person like me.

At this point I'm praying for a hardcore mode so I'm not aversely affected by Bethesda's shitty design choices to appease players like you :p
 
Lore nerd rage with the removal of mysticism, and especially since it was stated that the Psijic Order was a cult dedicated to the school of mysticism.


The rest looks pretty good, but Todd Howard sure loves to exaggerate pre-release hype. Still remember the "Radiant AI" demo for Oblivion that never materialised.
 

Clevinger

Member
The screenshots look promising but they only showcase environments and creatures, they don't show any people or faces up close which is concerning.

Yes, there is a screen of a person's face up close, and it actually looks good. Not all of the pages were scanned, or at least not spread around well enough.
 
Bootaaay said:
:O I've pretty much ignored Risen (probably would've got it by now if there was a PS3 port), but from your description it sounds like it exemplifies what I loved most about Morrowind; the sense of exploration without any of the hand-holding bullshit of Oblivion. I'll definitely have to investigate it further (and pray it runs well on my laptop).
or the game that came before risen, gothic3. if you love the exploration in morrowind that game should be your heaven. definitely one of my favourite rpgs ever.
 

LCfiner

Member
best news from this info is that conversation viewpoints change. those full frame, perfectly centered stares into my soul were my biggest annoyance - like level scaling was for some of you guys.
 

eso76

Member
cluto said:
With fixed levels, players might get raped in the first dungeon they go in to because they're under-leveled.

exactly the way it should be.

Basically the game will funnel players into certain directions based on their level, which makes it less of an open world game. With level-scaling, players can go practically anywhere and experience fair combat at any level.

being able to go anywhere right from the start probably sounds better to today's casuals market, but it's an abomination. It defeats the purpose, kills interest in exploration and discovery and makes giving areas different personalities impossible..there should be areas you are afraid venturing into
 
I kinda wish this game looked more... fantasy. If it wasn't for spells and skeletons it could very well be a Middle Age-set game. Needs more skyscrapers built from giant mushrooms:/

But hey, who am I kidding, I'm still hyped as hell:D
 

EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
Staff Member
DennisK4 said:
I never dared dream Betsheda would learn a lesson from Risen anyway

How about Fallout: New Vegas, then? Richly designed open game world free of scaling and full of danger. Obsidian designed it so that early on players will be subtly nudged towards a direction of slowly incrementing challenge and character strength, yet the world is totally open to explore and throw caution to the wind if you so choose, with all of the consequences associated with that (risk of death and reward for success). You always have a good sense of when you might be in over your head, but your hand is never held.
 

GhaleonEB

Member
Simon Belmont said:
It's a good thing they've got you thinking about it!
Indeed. I was going look up Evilore's previous elaboration of this point in response to you, but he's beaten me to the punch.

I didn't use fast travel in Oblivion for the first 60-70 hours of the game, but the zig zag nature of the quests eventually meant I needed to lest I spent all my time trudging the length of the map dozens of times over.

I'm hoping it's just city-based fast travel, and those cities operate as hubs. I'll do what I did before and avoid using it as long as I can bear, because exploring is much more fun and what I look forward to, but I'm disappointed to see it return.
 

LCfiner

Member
Mt Heart Attack said:
I kinda wish this game looked more... fantasy. If it wasn't for spells and skeletons it could very well be a Middle Age-set game. Needs more skyscrapers built from giant mushrooms:/

But hey, who am I kidding, I'm still hyped as hell:D


I think the dragons will add to that fantasy feel. especially if they show up on a semi regular basis.
 

sublimit

Banned
Um can we please change the "old dude" in the OP to Max Von Sydow?
The guy is a legendary actor i think he deserves better.:p
 
cluto said:
In regard to the engine, the article uses the terms "redesigned engine" and "new rendering engine". It's possible that it's still Gamebryo with a new graphics engine.

Visually, the graphics have improved significantly: shadows being cast on indoor objects; characters look way better, especially females; snow dynamically falls onto trees and objects, etc.

This is what I expected. The game looks pretty nice, but it's hard to tell from looking at scans. I'd be interested to know what the delta between the consoles and PC will be. I'm guessing not much difference besides obvious stuff like AA and resolution, but hopefully I'm wrong.
 

ajim

Member
I hope the music is as good as it was in Morrowind, that was a huge let down for me in Oblivion, nothing truly memorable :(
 

Dennis

Banned
EviLore said:
How about Fallout: New Vegas, then? Richly designed open game world free of scaling and full of danger. Obsidian designed it so that early on players will be subtly nudged towards a direction of slowly incrementing challenge and character strength, yet the world is totally open to explore and throw caution to the wind if you so choose, with all of the consequences associated with that (risk of death and reward for success). You always have a good sense of when you might be in over your head, but your hand is never held.
I am going to assume that approach is too daring for Betsheda. I remember quite a few complaints from gamers that they got slaughtered by Radscorpions in New Vegas no matter what they did. Apparently it was not clear that this meant you had to go elsewhere and return when you have gained levels.

I think Skyrim is going to be a much more mainstream game than New Vegas. By very deliberate design. I hope I am wrong but I honestly can't see them being so bold as to copy New Vegas in that regard.

With Oblivion, Elder Scrolls became a huge mainstream franchise.
 
Billen said:
Level scaling? That is a stupid fucking decision.

It's a given with today's hand holding. It could work out okay if it was implemented properly, i.e. nothing like Oblivion and not much like FO3 either. Call me pessimistic, I still think the mod community will have to fix it up. The fact there are no more classes leads me to hope the game is not unbalanced. Will I get something out of specializing my character into one "career path", or will is still be hugely advantageous to power game an "uber" character who can do everything ?
 
cluto said:
On level-scaling, what do you guys think is a better leveling system for an open world game? With fixed levels, players might get raped in the first dungeon they go in to because they're under-leveled. Basically the game will funnel players into certain directions based on their level, which makes it less of an open world game. With level-scaling, players can go practically anywhere and experience fair combat at any level.

Do you guys prefer the non-scaling system or do you think there is a better way to handle a leveling system for an open world game?
Funny, fixed levels work fine for WoW, and that's the most successful RPG ever. Right?

Most people understand that they can't go anywhere at any time and be strong enough
 
EviLore said:
How about Fallout: New Vegas, then? Richly designed open game world free of scaling and full of danger. Obsidian designed it so that early on players will be subtly nudged towards a direction of slowly incrementing challenge and character strength, yet the world is totally open to explore and throw caution to the wind if you so choose, with all of the consequences associated with that (risk of death and reward for success). You always have a good sense of when you might be in over your head, but your hand is never held.

I was wondering when you'd post some Vegas impressions.
 

Dennis

Banned
Bootaaay said:
I've pretty much ignored Risen (probably would've got it by now if there was a PS3 port), but from your description it sounds like it exemplifies what I loved most about Morrowind; the sense of exploration without any of the hand-holding bullshit of Oblivion. I'll definitely have to investigate it further (and pray it runs well on my laptop).
If I may be so bold, I will recommend some open-world exploration based RPGs

Gothic 2

Gothic 3

Two Worlds

Two Worlds II

Risen

Morrowind

Oblivion


They are all very, very good games.
 

nexen

Member
EviLore said:
How about Fallout: New Vegas, then? Richly designed open game world free of scaling and full of danger.

New Vegas didn't have scaling? I thought they just toned it down.
 

EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
Staff Member
Grimm Fandango said:
So was there a reason why level scaling wasn't in Fallout 3?

Level scaling is present in Fallout 3. When you visit a location for the first time, it scales to the player (within a preset range for that location, so something could still feel easy or hard). If you decide it's too hard or get distracted by some other quest and come back later, it's still locked to what it was when you went there the first time.

It's a lot less actively offensive than Oblivion's scaling, at least.
 

nexen

Member
So pumped. Love me some big budget open world RPGS.

EviLore said:
Level scaling is present in Fallout 3. When you visit a location for the first time, it scales to the player (within a preset range for that location, so something could still feel easy or hard). If you decide it's too hard or get distracted by some other quest and come back later, it's still locked to what it was when you went there the first time.

It's a lot less actively offensive than Oblivion's scaling, at least.

This is exactly what I'd expect Skyrim to do.

disappeared said:
Annoying Fan 2.0 ($1)
:lol :lol
 

bengraven

Member
Oh my god, an actual ATTRACTIVE woman in an Elder Scrolls game?

That isn't from some animu mod, but instead vanilla?

Be still my heart: they still have 11 months to make her look atrocious. And besides, she will likely be the only one. :lol
 

BlueTsunami

there is joy in sucking dick
Bethesda, may I suggest whatever Expansion/DLC you make for this involves infiltrating an old volcano to plunder the treasure of a very old Dragon. Make it a straight up dungeon romp. The scenario can be in the spirit of The Hobbit.
 

Evolved1

make sure the pudding isn't too soggy but that just ruins everything
Mt Heart Attack said:
Yeah who cares if there is level scaling, it will be modded right away anyway.

Won't it be much harder to mod if the scaling permeates even into the quest design? I mean... if it scales everything to level, if quests truely are "radiant" :lol seems like that would be more work for modders to address.
 

EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
Staff Member
nexen said:
New Vegas didn't have scaling? I thought they just toned it down.

I haven't looked at the hard numbers under the hood like some folks in the mod community surely have, but if there is scaling I haven't noticed any at all. "High level" equipment all over the place in static locations in the game world, enemies that can easily one-shot you if you go to a dangerous spot before you're capable of handling them, and there's no discernible change in the (absolute) difficulty of enemy encounters or the sort of loot I get from them as I level up.

The aforementioned world design philosophy, along with the damage threshold system and (soft) skill requirement system all help facilitate the removal of scaling.
 
recklessmind said:
Won't it be much harder to mod if the scaling permeates even into the quest design?

I think even the "simple" Oblivion took several months for the level scaling to be reworked by modders.
This game may take longer for the meta mods to come out. But I'm patient and willing to give the vanilla game a chance.
 
So excited. Though I guess my dream of indoors and outdoors no longer being separate cells has not been realized. Or just not mentioned yet? Please?
 
ajim said:
I hope the music is as good as it was in Morrowind, that was a huge let down for me in Oblivion, nothing truly memorable :(
MORROWIND HAD 1 SONG AND IT WAS LOOPED ALL THE TIME. (At least it felt that way)
 
EviLore said:
Level scaling is present in Fallout 3. When you visit a location for the first time, it scales to the player (within a preset range for that location, so something could still feel easy or hard). If you decide it's too hard or get distracted by some other quest and come back later, it's still locked to what it was when you went there the first time.

It's a lot less actively offensive than Oblivion's scaling, at least.

Gotcha.

That is something I did miss about Morrowind. Going into a Daedric dungeon, seeing a Golden Saint, getting my ass kicked, then running like a little girl.
 
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