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Adnor
Member
(07-07-2017, 09:59 PM)
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Originally Posted by Spoo

Normally I'm not into rogue-like games (unless it's From Soft)

Wait, when did they make a roguelike?
Fbh
Member
(07-07-2017, 10:02 PM)
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Roguelite and procedurally generated.

Two words that instantly make me lose interest in any game.

Art style looks pretty cool though.
Slick Butter
Member
(07-07-2017, 10:03 PM)
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Originally Posted by Adnor

Wait, when did they make a roguelike?

I also would like to know this information. Closest thing I can think of are the chalice dungeons (lol).
DocSeuss
Member
(07-07-2017, 10:04 PM)
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"FPS" *gets excited*

"roguelite" *loses excitement*

Then I saw the footage and I'm like... well, dang, it looks like it plays good... Still, roguelites kind of universally suck.
see5harp
Member
(07-07-2017, 10:04 PM)
Roguelite, permadeath is what is exciting about this. I'll let ya'll sleep and wait on the next dumb ass narrative shoot bang game.
Gator86
Member
(07-07-2017, 10:05 PM)
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Originally Posted by TemplaerDude

Guh these threads are always a page or two of people whining about roguelikes/lites like they're entitled to play every game or something.

I'm excited.

Trash post. Disappointment over a game announcement is not entitlement.
Last edited by Gator86; 07-07-2017 at 10:09 PM.
Slick Butter
Member
(07-07-2017, 10:10 PM)
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I'm genuinely surprised at how many people are instantly turned off by the Roguelite descriptor. I love me some roguelites and roguelikelikelikes.

The art in the trailer isn't that great to me but I like the idea and setting. Looks like it could end up being a lot of fun when finished.
Last edited by Slick Butter; 07-07-2017 at 10:13 PM.
Herbspiceguy
Banned
(07-07-2017, 10:10 PM)
At least we got System Shock 3 and System Shock Remake coming.
Stoze
Member
(07-07-2017, 10:17 PM)
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Originally Posted by Tagyhag

I disagree, how many FPS roguelites can you name?

Just for kicks:

Ziggurat
Tower of Guns
Paranautical Activity
STRAFE
Immortal Redneck
Heavy Bullets
Rogue Shooter
WASTED
Eldritch (sorta)
Reciever (sorta)
SirMossyBloke
Member
(07-07-2017, 10:25 PM)
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Originally Posted by Stoze

Just for kicks:

Ziggurat
Tower of Guns
Paranautical Activity
STRAFE
Immortal Redneck
Heavy Bullets
Rogue Shooter
WASTED
Eldritch (sorta)
Reciever (sorta)

So 8 ones in total with a couple of maybes. Not exactly a lot is it? Even if it doubled its still not a lot.
Stoze
Member
(07-07-2017, 10:30 PM)
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Originally Posted by SirMossyBloke

So 8 ones in total with a couple of maybes. Not exactly a lot is it? Even if it doubled its still not a lot.

Those maybes are just as much if not more of an FPS than this game is just from watching the footage. These are just what I could name fyi, there's probably some lesser known ones I missed.

Whether it's a lot for within 3-4 years is subjective, but we certainly haven't been lacking in them imo. I think we are lacking really good ones though.
Last edited by Stoze; 07-08-2017 at 04:24 AM.
tuxfool
Member
(07-07-2017, 10:45 PM)

Originally Posted by SirMossyBloke

So 8 ones in total with a couple of maybes. Not exactly a lot is it? Even if it doubled its still not a lot.

There are more. And what makes it somewhat dull is that it is always enter a room, clear stuff out. You could do that with Serious Sam years ago, while having a much more satisfying method of killing mountains of enemies.

Also regardless of what people say, them being roguelikes puts a lot of negatives common with 2d ones, where you're constantly repeating low level mobs to get to the more interesting sections. That they're 3d and fps doesn't fundamentally change the slog.
Last edited by tuxfool; 07-07-2017 at 10:50 PM.
jtb
the walrus
(07-07-2017, 10:47 PM)
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Sounds terrible. Roguelikes are a ton of fun, but genres like FPS that rely heavily on level design and graphical fidelity are horribly suited for random generated content.

Get the feeling they're working on a shoe string budget and this is their way of getting around that.
Servbot24
Uncharted 4 is years ahead of its time when it comes to storytelling in the way it communicates a feeling of unease through bad pacing
(07-07-2017, 10:49 PM)
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Originally Posted by Akronis

Oversaturation.

Oversaturation would be tolerable if they were good to begin with
Blue Lou
Member
(07-07-2017, 10:50 PM)
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Where I'm from, "Brass" is slang for a prostitute. I imagine this game has nothing to do with that though! ha.
GameAddict411
Member
(07-07-2017, 10:51 PM)
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Doesn't look interesting. Pass.
tuxfool
Member
(07-07-2017, 10:54 PM)

Originally Posted by jtb

Get the feeling they're working on a shoe string budget and this is their way of getting around that.

Make shorter games.
Mr.Deadshot
Member
(07-07-2017, 10:57 PM)
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Stopped at rogue... :(
Slate Soda
(07-07-2017, 10:58 PM)
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Originally Posted by Joeku

Yeah no idea what being ex-Bioshock serves this beyond maybe art direction? Is it even some of those team members?

It's supposed to mean these devs are really talented
ViviOggi
(07-07-2017, 11:09 PM)
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Originally Posted by SirMossyBloke

So 8 ones in total with a couple of maybes. Not exactly a lot is it? Even if it doubled its still not a lot.

And only two of them are actually worth playing so I welcome any attempt at this style with open arms
The Greek Freak
Banned
(07-07-2017, 11:13 PM)
Give me persistent upgrades like Dead Cells/Rogue Legacy or I don't give a fuck about your roguelike.

(Unlocking items is even worse than no progression at all).
ProgenitorCastle
Banned
(07-07-2017, 11:16 PM)

Originally Posted by Drain You

Did the same after your post and I have to agree. At 1.25x speed the game almost looks totally different. Much different feel to it.

Originally Posted by Symbiotx

It's funny what a difference speeding it up makes. This would be much better.

Indeed
SirMossyBloke
Member
(07-07-2017, 11:30 PM)
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Originally Posted by ViviOggi

And only two of them are actually worth playing so I welcome any attempt at this style with open arms

Yeah, that I will agree with. Most are trash sadly.
Marvel
could never
(07-07-2017, 11:31 PM)
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Nah I'll pass.
PandaPedinte
Member
(07-07-2017, 11:49 PM)
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I'm interested
Sande
Member
(07-07-2017, 11:55 PM)
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Eh, roguelite doesn't exactly capture what made Bioshock special.

And it looks really rough based on the trailer.
Voidance
Member
(07-07-2017, 11:59 PM)
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Originally Posted by Maintenance

Great, another one, pass.

My thoughts exactly.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
(07-08-2017, 12:00 AM)
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Nothing wrong with a roguelite, which is actually different from a roguelike. Roguelite is not a very descriptive word.
Spoo
Member
(07-08-2017, 12:06 AM)
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Originally Posted by Adnor

Wait, when did they make a roguelike?

I'm not really up-to-date on what From Soft games are considered; rogue-lite, rogue-like, whatever. I only said it because I think some people use that term in relation to Dark Souls games, and I consume those readily and happily. Disregard if it doesn't fit the definition.
Slick Butter
Member
(07-08-2017, 12:11 AM)
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Originally Posted by Spoo

I'm not really up-to-date on what From Soft games are considered; rogue-lite, rogue-like, whatever. I only said it because I think some people use that term in relation to Dark Souls games, and I consume those readily and happily. Disregard if it doesn't fit the definition.

Yeah, whoever you saw use those terms relating to Dark Souls was confused, unless they were discussing Necropolis or something. I see Metroidvania tossed around a lot in relation to the first Dark Souls' world design, however.
BTA
Member
(07-08-2017, 12:26 AM)
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It's kinda bizarre to keep seeing devs from Irrational announce games where their pitch immediately kills the slightest bit of excitement that might generate.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
(07-08-2017, 12:27 AM)
This sounds awesome.
PensivePen
Member
(07-08-2017, 12:36 AM)
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Neat art direction and some very cool gameplay concepts hinted at in the trailer. Could be a lot of fun, though the gameplay looks a bit stiff/clunky.
Kin5290
Member
(07-08-2017, 01:17 AM)
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I'd be interested in the premise (Arabian Nights being underused as a setting) but hard pass on the permadeath and random procedural generation. I feel like those are just used so that developers don't have to bother with hard things like level design.
TheVoidDragon
Member
(07-08-2017, 01:35 AM)
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I think this is a real shame. The title itself sounded interesting and seeing ex-bioshock devs made me think it would be something like a Steampunk Bioshock, and while the actual setting here still sounds sort of interesting and the gameplay itself doesn't look bad, it being a Rougelite just makes it seem pretty wasted and ultimately a bit pointless. I'm alright with Rougelite games and don't have anything against them, but at the same time it's not something that will make me actually want to get it. The procedurally generated levels just makes it even worse to me though, i really don't like it when games use that as pretty much the entire premise as it just makes it all seem sort of throwaway both in terms of the game itself and to my experience of it. That should be used to support an aspect of a game and improve things not something that's tauted as a core feature of a game as if it means something on its own.
Last edited by TheVoidDragon; 07-08-2017 at 01:40 AM.
Machina
Member
(07-08-2017, 01:47 AM)
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Originally Posted by Fbh

Roguelite and procedurally generated.

Two words that instantly make me lose interest in any game.

Art style looks pretty cool though.

Yep, I'm sick of it. Procedural generation isn't smart development, it's lazy development
Onivulk
Member
(07-08-2017, 01:52 AM)
Could be cool but being the guys behind Bioshock isnt a positive thing imo.
More_Badass
My indie-sense is tingling
(07-08-2017, 02:35 AM)
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Originally Posted by Machina

Yep, I'm sick of it. Procedural generation isn't smart development, it's lazy development

One might say that if they don't know about the design and process behind games like Spelunky, Dwarf Fortress, and other games that use procedural generation. It's only "lazy" if it's done poorly, and even then that's poor design, not laziness

Originally Posted by Kin5290

I'd be interested in the premise (Arabian Nights being underused as a setting) but hard pass on the permadeath and random procedural generation. I feel like those are just used so that developers don't have to bother with hard things like level design.

Level design is a part of procedural generation. That design is the procedural part

Randomly generated is different
Machina
Member
(07-08-2017, 02:39 AM)
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Originally Posted by More_Badass

One might say that if they don't know about the design and process behind games like Spelunky, Dwarf Fortress, and other games that use procedural generation. It's only "lazy" if it's done poorly, and even then that's poor design, not laziness


Level design is a part of procedural generation. That design is the procedural part

Randomly generated is different

Nah, it's lazy. You don't have to do as much work on assets, you don't have to do as much work on real level design (that being, a world that doesn't feel like boxes attached together by mouse tunnels), it leans very heavily on loot grind as a crutch....I imagine this game in particular will be more in line with the likes of Ziggurat than it would Spelunky
More_Badass
My indie-sense is tingling
(07-08-2017, 02:51 AM)
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Originally Posted by Machina

Nah, it's lazy. You don't have to do as much work on assets, you don't have to do as much work on real level design (that being, a world that doesn't feel like boxes attached together by mouse tunnels), it leans very heavily on loot grind as a crutch....I imagine this game in particular will be more in line with the likes of Ziggurat than it would Spelunky

That's like saying using CGI is lazy and easier because you don't have to make miniatures or animatronics. Or doing in an open world is lazy because you dont have design distinct levels

You have to design assets that fit together logically every time and then create systems that fit those elements together in a challenging and cohesive manner. It's like "I'm going to build a diorama" versus "I'm going to build a robot that builds differently themed dioramas"

Also many games, such as Gungeon, Binding, and others, have handcrafted rooms that are simply connected, so there is level design for the individual arenas and areas

You should check out Unexplored, for a roguelike that used a unique procedural generation system to create dungeons that feel natural
Last edited by More_Badass; 07-08-2017 at 02:53 AM.
Tagyhag
Member
(07-08-2017, 03:25 AM)
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Originally Posted by Stoze

Just for kicks:

Ziggurat
Tower of Guns
Paranautical Activity
STRAFE
Immortal Redneck
Heavy Bullets
Rogue Shooter
WASTED
Eldritch (sorta)
Reciever (sorta)

Sorry, I should have been more specific and say with persistent upgrades. I don't count the ones with just unlockable items as roguelites.

At the end of the day, It's just a roguelike with different items per run.

That said, even if we counted all those, 10 games for years isn't exactly oversaturation.
Stoze
Member
(07-08-2017, 04:22 AM)
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Originally Posted by Tagyhag

Sorry, I should have been more specific and say with persistent upgrades. I don't count the ones with just unlockable items as roguelites.

At the end of the day, It's just a roguelike with different items per run.

That said, even if we counted all those, 10 games for years isn't exactly oversaturation.

The poster that you quoted who said oversaturation was presumably talking about all the games having the rougelite/like structure, not just FPS titles.

I was just responding to the "name some" part, as if that's hard to do (although apparently you don't count them). I personally don't feel it's oversaturated, and I also only named ones that I've played or know about so it's certainly not only 10.

This isn't necessarily directed at you, but looking at the general reaction in this thread or the handful of other rougelite announcement threads we've seen in the past couple years, I think it would be disingenuous to ignore that a lot of people appear tired of the rougelite/like structure or flat out don't like it regardless of genre. I'm willing to concede that it's an oversaturated design paradigm within the indie scene even though I don't necessarily feel that way myself. Maybe I'm just tired of fighting the fight, I donno.
Last edited by Stoze; 07-08-2017 at 04:42 AM.
Papacheeks
Junior Member
(07-08-2017, 05:28 AM)
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That gameplay looks rough.
Mechanized
Member
(07-08-2017, 05:32 AM)
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This looks goddamn rad!
Flying Toaster
Member
(07-08-2017, 05:54 AM)
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Sign me up I love roguelike.
More_Badass
My indie-sense is tingling
(07-08-2017, 06:21 AM)
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Originally Posted by Stoze

This isn't necessarily directed at you, but looking at the general reaction in this thread or the handful of other rougelite announcement threads we've seen in the past couple years, I think it would be disingenuous to ignore that a lot of people appear tired of the rougelite/like structure or flat out don't like it regardless of genre. I'm willing to concede that it's an oversaturated design paradigm within the indie scene even though I don't necessarily feel that way myself. Maybe I'm just tired of fighting the fight, I donno.

I kind of feel that it's like someone who only played Tomb Raider, Borderlands, or other games with RPG elements saying they're tired of RPGs. I don't think it's unlikely that some people who say they're tired of roguelikes or roguelites have never actually played a roguelike. In another thread, a poster said he was tired of roguelikes after playing games like Westerado, Rogue Stormers, Crawl (along with Don't Starve, Enter The Gungeon, Bit Dungeon, and some others)

A Dwarf Fortress, Caves of Qud, Dungeonmans, TOME, Nethack, Brogue, or even Spelunky is a very different beast from a Ziggurat or Gungeon.
ElectricThunder
Member
(07-08-2017, 01:20 PM)
Looks promising indeed---and ya'll would do best to not sleep on Immortal Redneck(ESPECIALLY Serious Sam fans...) for that matter as it has done quite well for itself in terms of potent post-release support and is, oddly enough, probably the most direct competition City of Brass will have by the time it comes out in terms of polish and all else barring another surprise contender entering the fray.

The likes of this pair, and MOTHERGUNSHIP, strongly indicate a new or second generation of folks taking a crack at this synthesis and doing a FAR better job at the Gestalt than the earliest of titles groping blindly in the dark of the unknown and untrodden which tend to dominate the lists of folks casting blanket dismissals.
ArjanN
Member
(07-08-2017, 02:34 PM)
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Originally Posted by tuxfool

Frankly I see roguelite as an excuse to extend the game time by making you replay the same low level content over and over.

I'm tired of indie roguelites..

I see the argument a lot, but I'm not sure that's that's how it actually works, I think it's actually much easier design-wise to slap down one set of linear levels and call it a day.
THEaaron
Member
(07-08-2017, 02:39 PM)
fps and roguelite? Totally in.
ronaldthump
Banned
(07-08-2017, 02:49 PM)
looked good to me. I'm not super keen that it's FPSview but looks fun

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