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Charles Randall on why game developers aren't more candid with public

I think a major hurdle to overcome is the technical talk. Video games can be very complicated and a lot of moving parts. If you're on the outside and don't know anything about the industry, you tend to simplify things to the surface level understanding.

I don't know if those toxic gamers really care to put in the effort to truly understand the work involved. So, there's only two ways to deal with them: ignore them or call them out (not for the toxic guy, but for other people listening). Problem with calling them out it's bad PR for the developers, so it has to come from the community, which doesn't happen very often.

Also, like someone said above, there is a difference between developers and publishers, but they can get conflated.

Ehh. Not always.

There was an amazing Reddit thread where people asked the Guild Wars devs why there were banned, and Arenanet flat out told them. Was pretty entertaining and ended with most people rooting for Arenanet the entire time:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2...nsions_for_offensive_names_and_inappropriate/
 
This GAF thread just goes on to prove the OP’s point.

Reading into the posts to construct an argument that’s wasn’t made? Check.

Randomly launching into non sequitor rants about unrelated business models? Check.

Butthurt lashing out? Check.

Reading the tweets as uncharitably as possible? Check and mate.
 
That's a great twitter thread.

This GAF thread just goes on to prove the OP’s point.

Reading into the posts to construct an argument that’s wasn’t made? Check.

Randomly launching into non sequitor rants about unrelated business models? Check.

Butthurt lashing out? Check.

Reading the tweets as uncharitably as possible? Check and mate.
This is a great post. The irony.
 
I think its unfair frankly to paint the entire online gaming community as "toxic". I think any developer who thinks in this way has a very unhealthy view of his/her customer base.

Of course there are toxic gamer communities, both on and offline, as well as decidedly nasty and hateful individuals, but to paint the entire gaming community with the same brush here is a pretty crappy thing to do.

For every idiot wanting to hurl abuse at a developer, there are tens, or even hundreds of sensible people who enjoy playing videogames and would be excited to learn more about the industry and how a developer's internal dev. process works.

It's crap when the assholes spoil it for everyone else, but devs please don't insult the rest of us by placing us in the same category as those degenerates.

I personally think it’s one of the most realistic viewpoints shared. I doubt he’s talking about every single gamer out there, but I feel that way about gaming in general and you see that sentiment shared quite often on gaf as well from other gamers.
 
He definitely makes good points but some stuff need to be fought tooth and nail. Cause if you let pubs and devs get away with stuff they’ll eventually keep pushing for more.

Look at 2K and Warner. The microtransactions are ridiculous, if they could fine alternatives to the preying tactics they use(any and all companies) it’d be ok but they just want to take advantage of their bases.
 
This GAF thread just goes on to prove the OP's point.

Reading into the posts to construct an argument that's wasn't made? Check.

Randomly launching into non sequitor rants about unrelated business models? Check.

Butthurt lashing out? Check.

Reading the tweets as uncharitably as possible? Check and mate.

To be fair, no one should ever listen to an argument and agree with it 100% just because the argument ends with "I'm right, and ignoring everyone else who says otherwise."

That's a terrible way to promote conversation and learning. We live in a world filled with context and it's usually wise to pay attention to that context.

This more comes down to a vocal minority issue more than anything. Hundreds of Thousands of players enjoyed Destiny, but if you looked at the front page of Neogaf from 2015-mid2017 you wouldn't know it.

I have an issue with Bungie specifically, but I love DONTNOD, DoubleFine, Retro, etc...
 

guybrushfreeman

Unconfirmed Member
Here's a fantastic microcosm of what happens when reality intersects with GAF, nevermind the general public

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=516730

That was the saddest thread and honestly I’m not convinced the community has learnt all that much since then.

A lot of this information is out there and I’ve come to the sad conclusion many people just don’t want to understand it.

Some people generally prefer just screaming abuse and ‘lazy devs’ rather than understand the facts and truth of the situation
 
He definitely makes good points but some stuff need to be fought tooth and nail. Cause if you let pubs and devs get away with stuff they’ll eventually keep pushing for more.

Look at 2K and Warner. The microtransactions are ridiculous, if they could fine alternatives to the preying tactics they use(any and all companies) it’d be ok but they just want to take advantage of their bases.

Randall does hate Pay to Win garbage.
 
2) DmC in its original form received critical acclaim. Yeah the DE fixed a bunch of stuff, but there's no way the original game could have been worth the anger. And I'm not saying long times series fans couldn't have been critical about it or disliked it, I'm talking about the anger directed at Ninja Theory.

Just wanted to answer this- I agree that the game itself isn't worth all the anger, the problem is all up along the development cycle of the game NT had a very antagonistic approach to handling the backlash, particularly Tameen. People only remember the announcement and the release, but there were three years worth of hostilities going back and fore.
 

GhaleonEB

Member
The entire tweet thread is on point, but to dial into one topic he touched...if you don't like a game, just let it go and move on. I very seldom post about games I played and dropped because I didn't like them. In part because I rarely play enough of them to judge the quality, but enough to tell they're not for me. I always leave open the possibility that the game is quality but just not something that I happen to enjoy or was in the mood for, and I'm not going to slight the developer because I barely touched their game. I never understood people who go all in on things they don't like. Life's too short.
 

drkOne

Member
I’m pretty sure he wouldn’t be allowed to be transparent because PR department of big AAA studios wouldn’t let their devs go freestyle.

Honestly, he went way too deep into a non-problem
 

Kinyou

Member
There shouldn't be any hate to fuel though. No one should feel strongly enough about a Watch Dogs graphical downgrade that hate is an appropriate word to describe it. That's the problem with the gaming community. It's weird to have such a reaction to that type of thing.
Well if people didn't feel strongly about graphics there wouldn't have been a reason to make a deceptive demo for Watchdogs in the first place. You can't harvest that hype and then not expect backslash if you downgrade the game later without even acknowledging it.
 
He definitely makes good points but some stuff need to be fought tooth and nail. Cause if you let pubs and devs get away with stuff they’ll eventually keep pushing for more.

Look at 2K and Warner. The microtransactions are ridiculous, if they could fine alternatives to the preying tactics they use(any and all companies) it’d be ok but they just want to take advantage of their bases.

I hear what you’re saying, but if people continue to buy and support those practices, then all the twitter harassment in the world isn’t going to make a difference.
 

cyress8

Banned
I know you're joking, but you have *no idea* how much flak I took over the years from colleagues who knew I was on here over the number of comments like this (and worse) that were dead serious.

Shit ranges from annoying to hurtful to flat-out scary for some. That ain't cool.
Holy Shit, Bish is back!

On topic, Star Citizen shows you are damned if you do and damned if you don't. They are pretty open with the development and get nothing but flack for even making improvements to the game. People constantly call the improvements "feature creeps."
 

Tapejara

Member
The bolded is exactly how I see it.

Harassing devs? Ad-hominems? Violent language? All totally unacceptable.

Getting in touch on twitter to say 'I think this game is really poor and/or broken and I want you to fix it or do better.' Nothing wrong with that. Receiving criticism is part of being in a creative industry.

I understand that it's frustrating to deal with so many people who don't understand game dev but these are the people who are buying your products and dealing with them is part of the, well, deal. The difference these days is that social media gives everyone an easy way to share their opinion. Instead of getting 50 angry letters about a bug you get 30,000 tweets instead.

Where he says 'If you are posting extremely negative things about a game you don't like, even with good intentions, then you are part of this ethos.' ...I can't agree with that. Some games are terrible and deserve all the criticism they get.

I think the thing about Twitter is that it's very personal; I'd say tweeting at someone that you didn't like their game is the digital equivalent of stopping a director on the street to tell them you thought their last movie was bad. Sure, individual developers probably have Twitter accounts for business reasons, but they also probably use it just as often to keep up with colleagues, laugh at memes and so on. It's still a social thing, and most people don't want to hear unsolicited criticism from people they barely know. Additionally, you run into the issue of 1) tweets being limited to 140 characters, severely hampering the quality of your criticism, and 2) developers receiving a flood of angry tweets and your legitimate critique just becoming noise.
 
To be fair, no one should ever listen to an argument and agree with it 100% just because the argument ends with "I'm right, and ignoring everyone else who says otherwise."

That's a terrible way to promote conversation and learning. We live in a world filled with context and it's usually wise to pay attention to that context.

This more comes down to a vocal minority issue more than anything. Hundreds of Thousands of players enjoyed Destiny, but if you looked at the front page of Neogaf from 2015-mid2017 you wouldn't know it.

I have an issue with Bungie specifically, but I love DONTNOD, DoubleFine, Retro, etc...

There’s disagreement, and then there’s systematic toxicity.

I’ve never been on a gaming forum where there wasn’t the latter, everywhere, largely unchecked.

The most concentrated place for this sort of toxicity is game review threads. Especially console exclusives. All anyone seems to want to do is tear down either the game or the press.

In that context, how can anyone argue with the OP when he says that shit scares devs away from being open and honest, when even a single misunderstood sentence can make the whole gaming community set itself on fire and rage for a news cycle? And meanwhile the YouTube game folks are pumping out videos to jump on the bandwagon.
 

Wulfram

Member
Meh, games developers could stand to talk less really. Let their work speak for itself rather than hyping, misleading and manipulating.
 

Oresama

Member
5 things to help reduce Toxicity.

1. Reveal a game just a few months before release.

2. Voice-chat default should be opt-in only.

3. Jeff Kaplan style open communication.

4. Play your own game often to better understand player frustration and feedback.

5. Manage resources so that you're fixing the game too and not just focusing said resources on pumping out paid dlc.


Obviously this won't eliminate Toxicity, but it will reduce it in game and hopefully that translates a little bit into reducing it outside of the game?

Maybe then it will foster transparency amongst devs and gamers. In my opinion it's a two way street and not all the blame rests on gamers alone.
 
On topic, Star Citizen shows you are damned if you do and damned if you don't. They are pretty open with the development and get nothing but flack for even making improvements to the game. People constantly call the improvements "feature creeps."
I think Star Citizen's issue is that there isn't even a playable build (AFAIK) of the game after years of development, and adding more stuff just pushes any potential release date way further into the future. After stuff like Final Fantasy XV and The Last Guardian, which took a decade to release, you can understand why people aren't eager to stuck on another potentially endless train of updates and missed release windows.
 

Griss

Member
I think the thing about Twitter is that it's very personal; I'd say tweeting at someone that you didn't like their game is the digital equivalent of stopping a director on the street to tell them you thought their last movie was bad. Sure, individual developers probably have Twitter accounts for business reasons, but they also probably use it just as often to keep up with colleagues, laugh at memes and so on. It's still a social thing, and most people don't want to hear unsolicited criticism from people they barely know. Additionally, you run into the issue of 1) tweets being limited to 140 characters, severely hampering the quality of your criticism, and 2) developers receiving a flood of angry tweets and your legitimate critique just becoming noise.

Totally agree with you that twitter is both trash for making a point and too personal, too. I'd never send a dev criticism on twitter, and never have.

But people really should have separate business and personal social media, imo. Things get too complicated otherwise. See: Hill, Jemele. Latest in a long line of controversies.

The entire tweet thread is on point, but to dial into one topic he touched...if you don't like a game, just let it go and move on. I very seldom post about games I played and dropped because I didn't like them. In part because I rarely play enough of them to judge the quality, but enough to tell they're not for me. I always leave open the possibility that the game is quality but just not something that I happen to enjoy or was in the mood for, and I'm not going to slight the developer because I barely touched their game. I never understood people who go all in on things they don't like. Life's too short.

I'm pretty much the exact opposite. If I like something, there's so little to say. The reasons why it's good are typically self-evident and covered 10 times over by other posters, I'm happy, I got the experience I expected, I move on.

When I don't like something, that's when interesting conversations occur. Why do others like this thing I didn't? What in particular fell short with the design? What was the difference in what I felt I was promised and what I received? Was the problem marketing, programming, design itself? Could widespread criticism of the game prevent the design mistakes occurring again? And so on and so forth. Those are the discussions I'm actually interested in.
 
I miss the IRC days when dev's would hang out in the official channels and talk shit along with everyone else.

Don't blame them 1 bit for cutting that out though.
 
There’s disagreement, and then there’s systematic toxicity.

I’ve never been on a gaming forum where there wasn’t the latter, everywhere, largely unchecked.

The most concentrated place for this sort of toxicity is game review threads. Especially console exclusives. All anyone seems to want to do is tear down either the game or the press.

In that context, how can anyone argue with the OP when he says that shit scares devs away from being open and honest, when even a single misunderstood sentence can make the whole gaming community set itself on fire and rage for a news cycle? And meanwhile the YouTube game folks are pumping out videos to jump on the bandwagon.

Spot on.
 
I don't completely buy this. I mean I definitely get his general sentiment but look at how the Overwatch team conducts itself and interacts with the public (Jeff!) vs the Destiny team. It's like night and day. Has Jeff Kaplan been destroyed for being so open about game development? No.

Lots of what he's saying has merit and I agree with a lot of it. I just don't agree that communicating with your audience is basically impossible due to toxic gamer culture.
 
I personally think it’s one of the most realistic viewpoints shared. I doubt he’s talking about every single gamer out there, but I feel that way about gaming in general and you see that sentiment shared quite often on gaf as well from other gamers.

I mean, I actually agree with him that large swathes of gamers aren't educated about games development and the business that drives it. As well as the fact that gamers at large tend to be far too prone to knee-jerk overreactions to news, etc.. Also, fanboyism is one of the most infuriating aspects of the wider gaming community; given how it destroys the ability of many normally rational gamers to actually consider something in an objective manner...

... on the other hand, whilst these are all valid reasons for devs to choose not to share their more candid details with us, none of these things in my mind make the gaming community at large "toxic".

The "toxicity" comes from a small minority of the very vocal online gaming community, which aren't even close to representing the masses of gamers at large.
 

Dusk Golem

A 21st Century Rockefeller
I've been thinking about this recently since I'm passionate and generally optimistic about games, horror, and people. But the current state of game discussion on the internet is honestly pretty dire. I get PM's, emails, tweets, and the like from people reaching out to me privately to thank me for saying something or how they love reading my enthusiast posts or wish more would want to discuss things that are just simply more fun to talk about. And while I'm thankful, that doesn't really make me happy because the meaning is by simply being an enthusiast and positive and listening to different sides and being a person who is vocal with love for the medium I like spending time with and discussing with intrigue and general optimism, I am somehow unique in the community for it. If I was more invested in various other passions, such as films, or cars, or biking, I feel my stance wouldn't stand out as much. And I think that is just one of many signs of how bad it is right now when people want to privately thank or discuss something because they're afraid to show positivity, passion, or optimism publicly in the face of a group of people who are too willing to let a discussion spiral into a self-feeding train of hate, an ouroboros of sorts of turning critique into something far more malicious and ignorant. Dislike into hate, and hate only feeds hate.

But people are too willing to blame others instead of reflecting on themselves. They are too willing to make it another "us vs them" stance and argument. People would rather rally up these negative feelings and find a source to unleash them rather than educate themselves and learn more about the how, why, and turn it into a productive outlet of didcussion for change rather than the much easier and cathartic destructive method.

There's a lot more I'm thinking, but just a thought from an enthusiast who likes talking about games with others.
 

Mindwipe

Member
Legit criticism isn’t always being toxic. I was very excited for that film, but it wasn’t a good movie and as a fan of Snyder, I didn’t think he’d be a good fit and watchmen is one of my more well-liked films. I didn’t want anything to go my way, I simply didn’t like a movie. His style worked better in watchmen for sure though.

I doubt anyone was harassing his twitter over it either way. Honestly, if you think people criticizing and moving on is the same as what the op discussed, then I don’t know what to tell you.

People on Twitter were celebrating him reducing his role on future DC films because his child died.

I mean, this idea that gaming is "different" is just such obvious bollocks it's unreal.
 

giapel

Member
Toxicity is mainly due to the ubiquitness of today's social media. Music, movies and TV have it in droves as well. The difference is that these industries stand to gain very little by engaging with the public, so they tend not to.
Games, especially multiplayer ones, tend to evolve over time. And the interaction with tr fan base can often be very important. So if this interaction is poisoned by a minority that doesn't know how to behave and converse in a civil manner, then I can see how this becomes a very real problem.
 

Alienous

Member
The entire tweet thread is on point, but to dial into one topic he touched...if you don't like a game, just let it go and move on. I very seldom post about games I played and dropped because I didn't like them. In part because I rarely play enough of them to judge the quality, but enough to tell they're not for me. I always leave open the possibility that the game is quality but just not something that I happen to enjoy or was in the mood for, and I'm not going to slight the developer because I barely touched their game. I never understood people who go all in on things they don't like. Life's too short.

Going "all in" on things I don't like is just about the only way I get enjoyment from them. Picking it apart and holding everything I disliked up to the light.

As a DC fan Batman v Superman was such a disappointment, but discussing its flaws has been quite fun.
 

labx

Banned
He is right. There is just so much the public don't understand (and aren't willing to understand) that it makes any sort of communication pointless. It isn't worth the outrage and general nonsense.

So they blame the rest of us because of some loud assholes?

My response to this argument is the same as Kyougar's. So he is justifying his conduct -in a way-, applying the Dunning Kruger effect to a whole community. But this is making him equal bias about gamming community because he is making an overgeneralization of it.

Yes the community is full of snobs, loud assholes, toxic comments and so on, but there are people out there that want to know things and not being candid with everyone as a default option is not a solution.
 
People on Twitter were celebrating him reducing his role on future DC films because his child died.

I mean, this idea that gaming is "different" is just such obvious bollocks it's unreal.

Ugh. So terrible. In either case, I get it. It happening elsewhere doesn’t make it better here in any way or justify the behavior, so how about we move on from Zach Snyder?
 

g11

Member
He's definitely right for the most part, but I see a lot of what he's saying being conflated to apply to what is valid criticisms. For instance, when you see a trailer for a movie, you can pretty much take it at face value that the quality in the trailer is what you are going to see in the theater. Unfortunately for years now, that has not been the case with video games. From Watch Dogs to Killzone to No Man's Sky, you get trailers that do not accurately reflect what consumers got in the end. It's not all games that do this, but the ones doing it poison the well for everyone. That's more of a PR problem but PR will almost never come out and admit that the trailers show footage of the game running on a $3000 PC or included target renders, and if they do, it's always after the fact. People end up feeling burned and even though developers don't get much of a say in the PR process, that defense is only really good for the first few times it happens. If it becomes a pattern, devs and publishers need to find new PR or take a more proactive part in that process. Most people are more understanding when it doesn't feel like they are being duped and you are up front with them from the beginning.

As for technical issues, this is another area where software is drastically different from other media. If you have a DVD player and buy a DVD for it, it's going to run fine 99.99% of the time. Obviously there's a lot more nuance to making interactive software run well, but that's not really the consumer's problem. If you paid the $500 for Photoshop and it constantly crashed the program or blue screened your computer or had memory leaks all over the place so it ran like shit the longer you used it (like FO on PS3), the people who bought Photoshop would be pissed too. Same if you bought a DVD and whoever did the film transfer mastered it wrong and every third frame was skipped making the entire movie a choppy mess. That's not to say that every video game needs to run at 4K and 60fps with every visual bell and whistle known to man enabled and it has to run that way on hardware from this generation and the two previous. That's an insane ask.

But there are minimum standards people expect that are not unreasonable and when they buy a game and it runs like shit or crashes or eats their save, it's a bad user experience and it's frankly insane for devs to think that isn't going to take a toll on the patience and understanding of the people who paid their hard earned money for it. The same way if you paid $30,000 for a new car and it breaks down three times in the first week, you're going to be less than understanding when you go back to the dealership, even if they fix it for free, especially if it continues to break down after that. It's not unreasonable to expect something that is sold to you to function as advertised, but I'm not going to defend the people that think they're entitled to everything for $60, just like you're not entitled to Lambo performance from your Nissan Sentra.

The toxicity toward devs for their opinions or their race/gender/sexuality though, is an entirely different story and that needs to stop and deserves no defending.
 

OnPoint

Member
I dunno, isn't like 99% of this due to the fact that game developers don't tell the general gaming public how hard this stuff is? If no one ever spreads the information about how costly it is to implement multiplayer or switch engines, why would you expect the average joe to realize how damn hard/expensive it is?
Even telling my friends in personal conversations how much time, money and effort go into even our tiny games, people really think it can be done cheaper, faster and better. Honestly you'd be surprised how little people listen when they have a preconceived notion.
 

GhaleonEB

Member
I'm pretty much the exact opposite. If I like something, there's so little to say. The reasons why it's good are typically self-evident and covered 10 times over by other posters, I'm happy, I got the experience I expected, I move on.

When I don't like something, that's when interesting conversations occur. Why do others like this thing I didn't? What in particular fell short with the design? What was the difference in what I felt I was promised and what I received? Was the problem marketing, programming, design itself? Could widespread criticism of the game prevent the design mistakes occurring again? And so on and so forth. Those are the discussions I'm actually interested in.
I have those discussions about games where I play enough to really get a good understanding of them. I can talk about what Destiny 2 does well and poorly for a very long time. But to give an example, I bought and played a bit of Dark Souls 2 a few years ago (digital sale, so it was cheap). I didn't make it out of the tutorial castle. I played enough of the game to know it wasn't for me, but not enough distinguish "this is bad" vs. "this is not what I wanted out of this game". I'd never call it bad, just a game that early on was clearly not going to appeal to me. So I set it down a moved on. (I had problems with the UI, combat, camera and others, but given I played the game for all of 20 minutes, I don't feel I'm in a position to be very critical about it.)

That's more what I was talking about - where I don't play enough of a game to get a good insight about the game and it's underlying designs. But rather than dismiss it as "wow this game sucks" I just move on. It might be great (and from it's reputation, is). But it was also not for me. And that's okay.
 
Jim Sterling
and most of GAF
in a nutshell. Creating a culture of constant negativity, criticism, harassment and abuse is ruining gaming more than any questionable business practices or shitty Steam devs ever could.
 

Raging Spaniard

If they are Dutch, upright and breathing they are more racist than your favorite player
As a dev myself I have to agree with the twitter rant. GAF has grown and changed over the last five years (that Skullgirls thread ended on a positive note) but it doesnt mean we can be overly candid on GAF since its such a popular site

No matter the industry I dont think anybody likes it when an outsider trivializes and reduces your job to something that is throwaway, cheap or not time consuming. On top of that its regarding a hobby, something that is meant for the consumer to use as a means of relaxation and enjoyment, not frustration so I definitely "get" at a basic level why people act entitled about this industry, after all they want their feelgood and damn whoever is getting in their way of obtaining it.

We can help the situation by helping fans better understand how games are made (again, look at the Skullgirls thread), but were not going to be more candid about what happens on the inside, exceptions aside theres nothing to gain from me telling you about troubled projects at other companies or internal drama I heard someplace else. Thats a bond of trust I have with my peers that would just cause more conflict.
 

methane47

Member
I think you're taking the wrong point if you believe most developers, if not, all developers have malicious intents towards their consumers.

I dont believe that, All i'm saying is this is the kind of stuff that turns the community into a viscious mob.

We dont see book writers and movie producers just straight out lying about their products.

But i think video games have in general produced the most amount of lies per product than any other media.

Some of it is innocent, where a developer truly believes that their game is XYZ.
Some of it is the fault of the marketting execs trying to please everyone at the same time
Some of it is just blatant lies, where people are trying to pull the wool over our eyes.
 

Tapejara

Member
Going "all in" on things I don't like is just about the only way I get enjoyment from them. Picking it apart and holding everything I disliked up to the light.

As a DC fan Batman v Superman was such a disappointment, but discussing its flaws has been quite fun.

I think the key difference here is analyzing a game critically, and continuing to bash a game you didn't enjoy. For example, some people have legitimate criticisms of Lawbreakers and want to talk about what it did right and wrong, why it failed, etc. But at the same time there's a very vocal contingent who revel in the game failing. The problem is the latter group tends to be the loudest, and can in many cases weaponize their hatred.
 

Norse

Member
My momma once told me, "if you don't have anything nice to say......."

To bad social media doesn't follow this. It's turned into a very ugly place.
 

giapel

Member
One point I don't agree with is when they say that people don't understand the complexities of making a game.
Put it simply, we don't have to.
When I watch a movie, I don't need to know how it's made to have on opinion on the quality of say it's CG.
I can openly say that a game has crappy net code if I feel as an end user that it's not working correctly without having a clue what it takes to program an online game.
Critics don't need to be expert professionals.
 

Antialias

Member
In my experience, gamers just don't give a shit how the sausage is made. The only time there is any kind of technical interest in game creation is for arguments with other gamers, i.e, console / PC tech wars. And that stuff is almost entirely related to graphics hardware / technology, which is ultimately a pretty small part of the overall effort of making a game.
 

Retrofluxed

Member
The entire tweet thread is on point, but to dial into one topic he touched...if you don't like a game, just let it go and move on. I very seldom post about games I played and dropped because I didn't like them. In part because I rarely play enough of them to judge the quality, but enough to tell they're not for me. I always leave open the possibility that the game is quality but just not something that I happen to enjoy or was in the mood for, and I'm not going to slight the developer because I barely touched their game. I never understood people who go all in on things they don't like. Life's too short.

Like how embarrassing NeoGaf was to be around during the pre-launch window for Mass Effect Andromeda. You have posters that couldn't give a shit about the game drive-by posting in any thread they could find plastering those damned gifs. I almost quit this forum during that time and I've been around here for a long time.
 
One point I don't agree with is when they say that people don't understand the complexities of making a game.
Put it simply, we don't have to.
When I watch a movie, I don't need to know how it's made to have on opinion on the quality of say it's CG.
I can openly say that a game has crappy net code if I feel as an end user that it's not working correctly without having a clue what it takes to program an online game.
Critics don't need to be expert professionals.
Charles doesn't say everyone has to be an expert. The point is that people who know very little think they are experts, they are "Dunning-Kruger specialists". If you don't like the CG in a movie that's fine, but you shouldn't be surprised if the people who worked on it aren't particularly receptive towards being abused by know-nothings when they want to talk about it.
 

FyreWulff

Member
no lies detected in OP. Games folk want to be more open, but telling the straight truth will sometimes irritate gamers just as much as being vague. It's easiest to just sidle along and carry on.

Especially the last segment about nobody understanding "games change in development".
 

OceanBlue

Member
One point I don't agree with is when they say that people don't understand the complexities of making a game.
Put it simply, we don't have to.
When I watch a movie, I don't need to know how it's made to have on opinion on the quality of say it's CG.
I can openly say that a game has crappy net code if I feel as an end user that it's not working correctly without having a clue what it takes to program an online game.
Critics don't need to be expert professionals.
This feels like it's related to what the OP is about, but it's not really.
 
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