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DonShula · Jun 23, 2017

Sword Of Doom said:
Aren't they obligated to shut it down in order to protect their IP rights? Copyright law is super complicated to me but that's my understanding of it.

Yes, and this is really all that matters at the end of the day. Failure to defend the copyright (or even challenge potential infringement of it) could lead to a ruling down the road that Nintendo is abandoning the copyright. If you allow someone else to use your intellectual property unchecked, the next person who wants to use it has a much stronger case. All it takes is allowing one to set a precedent that could come back to haunt you.

Nintendo MUST do this to maintain control of their IP. Saying "yeah we see that game out there, good job" and doing nothing to defend the copyright is essentially an invitation for others to use the IP as they wish.

7DollarHagane · Jun 23, 2017

Jeremy said:
It also makes a lot more sense when you consider the abundance of Nintendo's recent 2D Metroid titles it was stealing sales from.

When you pay for the whole take but you only need the edge

I'm exhausted by people thinking they are edgy and different because they played the fan remake instead of the official one.

Get a life. Play both, play neither. Who cares.

OmegaFax · Jun 23, 2017

Is AM2R original enough that they could swap some sprites and music and totally have an unrelated game that Nintendo could do nothing about?

NOLA_Gaffer · Jun 23, 2017

Jeremy said:
I don't think you're reading what I said! The remake known as Another Metroid 2 Remake (note: NOT AN OFFICIALLY LICENSED NINTENDO PRODUCT) was affecting Metroid sales BIG TIME on the eShop. The fact that you were able to play AM2R on the 3DS, Wii and Wii U just made things much worse, especially after paying such a relatively high price.

Trust me, I didn't miss your heavy amount of sarcasm.

If someone can get their Metroid fix for free by downloading AM2R, that likely means they won't be giving Nintendo their money.

whalleywhat · Jun 23, 2017

SporeCrawler said:
yeah i feel appalled that some people think its okay to just steal the name and characters of agame outright and promote it as your own.

Who was doing this?

DonShula said:
Yes, and this is really all that matters at the end of the day. Failure to defend the copyright (or even challenge potential infringement of it) could lead to a ruling down the road that Nintendo is abandoning the copyright. If you allow someone else to use your intellectual property unchecked, the next person who wants to use it has a much stronger case. All it takes is allowing one to set a precedent that could come back to haunt you.

Nintendo MUST do this to maintain control of their IP. Saying "yeah we see that game out there, good job" and doing nothing to defend the copyright is essentially an invitation for others to use the IP as they wish.

So just say this instead of trying to redefine 'commercial product'.

Compsiox · Jun 23, 2017

Plum said:
Which are? Because, unlike Samus Returns, I doubt any of them would face a threat from Black Mesa.

I'm not concerned about the argument. I'm tired of seeing silly statements.

7DollarHagane · Jun 23, 2017

jedivulcan said:
Is AM2R original enough that they could swap some sprites and music and totally have an unrelated game that Nintendo could do nothing about?

It copies game design and level layouts wholesale so no

MrBadger · Jun 23, 2017

Meh, I don't agree with them shutting the game down but I certainly get it. In a lot of places (including this forum), the announcement of Samus Returns was met with disinterest from people who'd already played a remake of Metroid 2 and had their fill.

Jigorath said:
At least SEGA has handled fan games really well.

Nintendo is just a bunch of dicks when it comes to this sort of thing.

Commerical product lmao.

Sega just seem less strict about their brand's image in general. I don't believe Nintendo would let a game like Sonic Boom Rise of Lyric see release.

FZeroRacer · Jun 23, 2017

DonShula said:
Yes, and this is really all that matters at the end of the day. Failure to defend the copyright (or even challenge potential infringement of it) could lead to a ruling down the road that Nintendo is abandoning the copyright. If you allow someone else to use your intellectual property unchecked, the next person who wants to use it has a much stronger case. All it takes is allowing one to set a precedent that could come back to haunt you.

Nintendo MUST do this to maintain control of their IP. Saying "yeah we see that game out there, good job" and doing nothing to defend the copyright is essentially an invitation for others to use the IP as they wish.

Stop repeating this lie. I'm so tired of people touting out this outright falsehood.

You do not have to defend your IP, full stop. You have to defend your trademarks yes, not your IP. And even then you do not have to vigorously defend your trademark either.

petran79 · Jun 23, 2017

Nintendo werent afraid of AM2R. By the time the new Metroid appears, AM2R hype would have faded anyway.

They were more afraid that the developer could made an even better game in the future.

whalleywhat · Jun 23, 2017

MrBadger said:
Meh, I don't agree with them shutting the game down but I certainly get it. In a lot of places (including this forum), the announcement of Samus Returns was met with disinterest from people who'd already played a remake of Metroid 2 and had their fill.

So the issue with SR is the saturation of Metroid experiences. Alright, I'm done with this thread.

Alienous · Jun 23, 2017

So I guess 'commercial project without a charge' just means 'They took something that we'd charge for, recreated it, and gave it away for free'. I don't think the interpretation that they didn't want competition for the 3DS remake is compelling.

It doesn't seem unreasonable on Nintendo's part. If you took New Super Mario Bros., remade it using the same characters, layouts and locations, then gave it away Nintendo would be within their right to say "Now hold on a second".

MrBadger · Jun 23, 2017

whalleywhat said:
So the issue with SR is the saturation of Metroid experiences. Alright, I'm done with this thread.

Bye I suppose

Jeremy · Jun 23, 2017

7DollarHagane said:
When you pay for the whole take but you only need the edge

I'm exhausted by people thinking they are edgy and different because they played the fan remake instead of the official one.

Get a life. Play both, play neither. Who cares.

I've never downloaded or played AM2R but will probably buy Samus Returns. I don't really know how playing a fan remake is edgy or different but I imagine most gaffers are pretty stereotypical gamers who actually consider stuff like that lol.

Kusagari · Jun 23, 2017

He's basically saying AM2R was too good and had become too high profile.

You've got to assume the Metroid 2 remake was already in development and they thought AM2R harmed it.

UnemployedVillain · Jun 23, 2017

petran79 said:
Nintendo werent afraid of AM2R. By the time the new Metroid appears, AM2R hype would have faded anyway.

They were more afraid that the developer could made an even better game in the future.

Yes, that's it. You solved the mystery! I can't tell what's more embarrassing, that you actually, earnestly thought something so ridiculous, or that you actually posted it as well. I think calling this laughable wouldn't be giving it enough credit

rhandino · Jun 23, 2017

petran79 said:
Nintendo werent afraid of AM2R. By the time the new Metroid appears, AM2R hype would have faded anyway.

They were more afraid that the developer could made an even better game in the future.

I want to understand how this makes sense?

So Nintendo sent a C&D letter to a fan creator AFTER he released his fan game and now that fan creator cannot go and make his own original IP because of it?

Is that what you are saying?

Cuburt · Jun 23, 2017

Reggie's response is dumb, but personally I think making a game that is an homage and not taking the IP or the assets and repurposing them is a better approach, whether you want to give it away for free or not.

There is that Advance Wars homage game coming to the Switch, so the developers of AM2R could have created an original game with all their original ideas with some of that Metroid formula, more people would have gotten to play it, and they could make money off it.

Soapbox Killer · Jun 23, 2017

I don't think they started working on MSR after AM2R was completed and released, while I must admit I don't like Reggie's answer but I get it.

Zennistrad · Jun 23, 2017

rhandino said:
Like, who do you think is paying and financing the people doing the creative job? Of course they want to get paid after they risked their money.

I cannot.

Do people honestly think that executives and shareholders of billion-dollar corporations wouldn't have enough money already? Sheesh. The amount of profit they'd lose to fan projects is so negligible regardless that they really have no excuse.

The point is, IP law doesn't actually function the way that a lot of people here think, so there's no reason to accept the premise that fan projects like AM2R have to be shut down.

MrBadger · Jun 23, 2017

petran79 said:
Nintendo werent afraid of AM2R. By the time the new Metroid appears, AM2R hype would have faded anyway.

They were more afraid that the developer could made an even better game in the future.

Or maybe they weren't cool with someone freely giving away a product that used their IP, when they were developing a similar product at the same time?

Nah I'm sure Nintendo were shaking in their boots at the concept of another great free game 9 years from now

petran79 · Jun 23, 2017

rhandino said:
I want to understand how this makes sense?

So Nintendo sent a C&D letter to a fan creator AFTER he released his fan game and now that fan creator cannot go and make his own original IP because of it?

Is that what you are saying?

He can, as long as it has nothing to do with Nintendo. Or else he might have made a Super Mario or Zelda remake!

perfectchaos007 · Jun 23, 2017

I'm guessing "AM2R" is some sort of fan made metroid game?

The Faceless Master · Jun 23, 2017

holy shit Reggie should run for 2020

Eusis · Jun 23, 2017

samred said:
Austin went on to speculate that "commercial product," in this case, can only translate to "competition for OUR commercial product." AKA, Metroid: Samus Returns was in the works, and its commercial viability would have been challenged by the fan project. Weird phrasing dodge on Reggie's part, because, uh, that's not what "commercial" means, AFAIK...

https://twitter.com/austin_walker/status/878345935683698689

Yeah, this makes sense, and I was kind of thinking it was a "commercial quality product" before that... which is probably the same difference. It's unfortunate it unfolded that way but I'm glad it's because Nintendo had an actual remake in development and not just to sit on the IP.

Jeremy · Jun 23, 2017

NOLA_Gaffer said:
Trust me, I didn't miss your heavy amount of sarcasm.

If someone can get their Metroid fix for free by downloading AM2R, that likely means they won't be giving Nintendo their money.

If Metroid fans can only play one Metroid game before being burned out completely, why even go down the path of remaking them on either sides? They're surely more exciting than playing one fan remake and not being willing to ever spend money on another Metroid game again. What a fan base

UnemployedVillain · Jun 23, 2017

Nintendo shut it down because they were releasing an official Metroid 2 remake. That there is still a discussion or any ambiguity over the reasoning when that's obviously it is completely baffling to me. When they revealed MSR at E3 this was instantly obvious

Linkstrikesback · Jun 23, 2017

Sword Of Doom said:
Aren't they obligated to shut it down in order to protect their IP rights? Copyright law is super complicated to me but that's my understanding of it.

God, how does this daft rumour keep propagating?

Do you think Sega had lost the rights to sonic for all the sonic fangames they've shown support for on social media?

zelas · Jun 23, 2017

It might be time for Reggie to move on from this. He's just getting worse.

NOLA_Gaffer · Jun 23, 2017

Jeremy said:
If Metroid fans can only play one Metroid game before being burned out completely, why even go down the path of remaking them on either sides? They're surely more exciting than playing one fan remake and not being willing to ever spend money on another Metroid game again. What a fan base

MrBadger said:
In a lot of places (including this forum), the announcement of Samus Returns was met with disinterest from people who'd already played a remake of Metroid 2 and had their fill.

.

Pancakes R Us · Jun 23, 2017

Zennistrad said:
Keep in mind that it's entirely plausible that Nintendo didn't start developing Samus Returns until after AM2R had proved there was significant fan support for more Metroid.

They'd never admit that, of course, but given their Let's Play bullshittery in the past it's not hard to imagine that they'd shut down a fan project and make their own replacement because they'd rather not have something be popular that they can't make money from.

This. Has their been any mention of how long Samus Returns has been in development?

Thankfully I downloaded AM2R shortly after release, so I'll get to play both.

MUnited83 · Jun 23, 2017

Sword Of Doom said:
Aren't they obligated to shut it down in order to protect their IP rights? Copyright law is super complicated to me but that's my understanding of it.

Nope, you don't understand copyright law.

faridmon · Jun 23, 2017

Zojirushi said:
"This dude made a better Metroid than us lazy fucks ever could so we couldn't accept that obviously "

I can't believe this is written by an adult

Brakke · Jun 23, 2017

7DollarHagane said:
It copies game design and level layouts wholesale so no

Is "game design" and "level layouts" even copyrightable tho? I never heard of a situation like that where someone got sued for doing a knockoff.

Klappdrachen · Jun 23, 2017

This entire situation is so absurd, why is this even a discussion? Plus the game is finished and readily available.

Two Words · Jun 23, 2017

I think saying "We have a similar Metroid game in development and we need to protect our IP from being used against us to hurt the performance of our games." would have been an acceptable and honest answer.

JC Lately · Jun 23, 2017

Lights and Waves said:
I still don't understand how y'all can't possibly fathom why Nintendo would want to have control of their IPs.

You guys are so hard-headed sometimes.

This. There's a reason the Mother 4 people are rebranding their shit.

NOLA_Gaffer · Jun 23, 2017

Pancakes R Us said:
This. Has their been any mention of how long Samus Returns has been in development?

Thankfully I downloaded AM2R shortly after release, so I'll get to play both.

Only this, which is unsubstantiated, obviously.

mocolostrocolos said:
Glad to see the game has finally been revealed.

Have known about it for a very long time. Glad the guys in Mercury convinced Nintendo to keep developing the game.

The game was in dev hell for quite a time. Some things just didn't work.

CambriaRising · Jun 23, 2017

7DollarHagane said:
It copies game design and level layouts wholesale so no

Both of which are not covered by copyright.

UnemployedVillain · Jun 23, 2017

Two Words said:
I think saying "We have a similar Metroid game in development and we need to protect our IP from being used against us to hurt the performance of our games." would have been an acceptable and honest answer.

Let's be honest, regardless of the answer people would have complained about his statement, nitpicking at the exact wording and meaning when they all know exactly what he meant and why Nintendo did what they did. It's the nature of some people on this board. It's bizarre

Gotdatmoney · Jun 23, 2017

"This game was so good and free. People might not want the pay for our Metroid game after playing this"

Probably true.

Ban Puncher · Jun 23, 2017

"They used our IP without permission. Fuck 'em. Any other questions, Austin?"

Timeaisis · Jun 23, 2017

Of course they shut it down, they are remaking Metroid 2. The fact that this confuses people surprises me.

Syril · Jun 23, 2017

Brakke said:
Is "game design" and "level layouts" even copyrightable tho? I never heard of a situation like that where someone got sued for doing a knockoff.

There actually were cases involving the games KC Munchkin (related to Pac-Man), International Karate (related to Karate Champ) and Fighters' History (related to Street Fighter II), but the latter two lawsuits weren't successful.

Toxi · Jun 23, 2017

Shifty1897 said:
I've never understood fan remakes. AM2R could've been sold for 15 bucks on Steam and would've sold hundreds of thousands of copies. All they would've had to do was change some art assets and some areas / mechanics.

And before you say "Shifty, it's not about the money, it's about making something for the fans." Well look what happened and what has always happened when you make a fan game based on a Nintendo property and release it, it gets shut down and now no one can play it. It would have been better to change it just enough and release it as a "spiritual successor" to Metroid because then Nintendo can't shut it down and people could legally play it.

Uh, plenty of people can and did play AM2R.

Budi · Jun 23, 2017

It's so hard to call Reggie out on bullshit, since he makes my head spin. My heart always goes to developers first in any situation, which the creator is ofcourse. Nothing negative came to him from this, so I'm fine with it. He was able to finish it and share it to people so he didn't do it for nothing.

Saty · Jun 23, 2017

Plum said:
The issue with this comparison is that Valve doesn't develop new games anymore and it'd be a cold day in hell before they developed an official Half Life remake that Black Mesa could compete with.

While i'm not certain, i'm pretty sure Valve released HL games after Black Mesa started development. Besides, they are selling HL1 and HL1:Source in the same marketplace.

So not only did Valve not shut down Black Mesa all those years it was a free fan project, they since permit the devs to make money out of it.

Budi · Jun 23, 2017

Saty said:
While i'm not certain, i'm pretty sure Valve released HL games after Black Mesa started development. Besides, they are selling HL1 and HL1:Source in the same marketplace.

So not only did Valve not shut down Black Mesa all those years it was a free fan project, they since permit the devs to make money out of it.

"Valve is not your friend", they're the tumor of games industry.

SalvaPot · Jun 23, 2017

There is a lot of verbal gymnastics going around but the brilliance of Reggie's spin is that you can take it any way you want and get the answer you want.

The most obvious one is that it was a product that hurt their own.

You can still download the game for free, but not from a direct source that would have benefited the author. The developer has shown the world his vision and Nintendo get to protect their I.P. and release its own game, no matter how you look at it, its a Win-Win.

Toxi · Jun 23, 2017

7DollarHagane said:
Honestly idk why anyone spends as much time as this on a creation that is unoriginal. The creator clearly has talent, why waste it on something that steals assets and design and IP? Why not make something of your own?

Because DrM64 has a job and this was just a hobby project he started a decade ago?

People spend plenty of time, money, and effort on intellectual properties they don't own for entertainment. Hell, you do it every time you play a video game. Why don't you spend that time doing something original instead of just playing through the framework that other people designed? Because you enjoy it.

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