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I'll just outright say it, Nioh is a fucking slog of a game

Kudo

Kudo

Member
Don't really agree with anything, game had great pacing and story was really powerful with emotion, direction in the cutscenes too is something out of this world.
Ending spoilers
When Hanzo puts his hand close to his katana at the end of the game you can see Saoirse try to warn William and Mitsunaris execution scene delivered without any words, just...

No doubt a masterpiece.
 
IbukiLordSA

IbukiLordSA

Member
Fantastic game, I thoroughly enjoyed the 100 odd hours I spent with it. Great combat, some good bosses and enemy design and some very fun missions. All round a great title.

I don't get the whole loot hate thing. Just play the game with whatever drops, I never once tried to farm for better gear or anything I just used whatever dropped if it was better than what I had and moved on.

Levels also mean nothing, the souls series has taught me that. About halfway through the game I was always under leveled compared to what it said and I never cared it never seemed to mean anything. Even a lvl320 twilight mission was perfectly manageable with my level 90 character. People let this whole level system get into their head and play games with them. "Well the game says I must be this level I am 10 levels below this will be too hard, stuff this I am not farming, shit game"

Ignore it and just play the game and have fun it's not homework.
 
G

GoldenCrow

Member
Didn't find the game a slog at all. Every time I started to get a bit bored of repeated enemies or combat I just used the "book of reincarnation" and changed how I played the game. I didn't grind anything and only did the side missions I felt like doing until after I finished the main story. I thought the game was super easy and was well under the recommended level for the majority of the game. Probably the easiest platinum I have ever got for a game that wasn't just complete it to platinum. Every time I read posts comparing the game to Souls or Bloodborne I keep thinking I must have played a different game because Nioh is at heart a character action RPG with a huge variety of different play style that is influenced a lot by many different Action RPG's, it does have some FS game influences but they are superficial.
 
D

danowat

Banned
IbukiLordSA said:
Levels also mean nothing, the souls series has taught me that. About halfway through the game I was always under leveled compared to what it said and I never cared it never seemed to mean anything. Even a lvl320 twilight mission was perfectly manageable with my level 90 character. People let this whole level system get into their head and play games with them.
Click to expand...

Does that not tell you there is something fundamentally wrong with the levelling system in the game?
 
A

Aselith

Member
I love it. If you want a game like Bloodborne, go play Bloodborne. There are plenty of games of the style, you don't need to try to enforce every game into your image.
 
7

7threst

Member
I got so frustrated at the beginning of this game with some bullshit boss that I just quit and I really didn't feel it. But somehow, this thread makes me want to retry tonight.

GReeeeN said:
Yet, you still put 50+ hours into the game, says something doesn't it?
Click to expand...

You know how easy that is when you just wait for a game to 'click'? I mean, a little bit of Souls sprinkled with samurai-stuff has to be good, right? For a lot of people it took a while for Souls-games to click, as is the case for other genres too.
 
T

The Dear Leader

Banned
It has a great first few hours but I lost interest real quickly after that, got super repetitive and as you say a slog to play through. I hope they make another one and improve on its issues because the stuff they do right is really good and refreshing for the genre.
 
Aenima

Aenima

Member
Cant agree much. Loved the game even with all the side missions being recicled maps and enemies, the way you complete the map and enemy position is diferent enought to make them feel fresh, even if for me those was the worst the game had to offer. Loved everething else. Is not Soulsborn level of masterpiece but the combate is so good that for most of the time is more satisfying that the Soulsborn. And the more i played and the more i unlocked new skills, the better the combat got.
Eventually got the platinum, and there was some really nice challenges in the end game to get the platinum.

If they make a Nioh 2 i just wish for more creativity in the sub quests department.
 
G

GwyndolinCinder

Member
"You will fight THE SAME enemies over and over and over again"
Yup enemy variety in Nioh sucks, there are alot of enemies but not enough for its length.

"The Diablo loot system WILL eventually become tedious and it ultimately devalues EVERYTHING. You should not have to so much goddamn time in menus- and yes, this is even after utilizing the game's built QoL sorting/Item management flags"
Yup it sucks, there some stuff people like here, but its really dragged down by basic navigation.

" The fucking reused levels..."

"NIOH DOES NOT NEED TO BE AS LONG AS IT IS."

" Then you have the plot, which yeah, one can follow it, but why should you give a shit. William just fixes everyone else's problems and MAYBE will get back to the entire point of even going to Japan. It's really sad to because the production values are good, the character models are gorgeous, the voice acting is pretty good, the dialog is solid. Yet, because you have seemingly a fairly limited narrative, the pacing/motivation get's completely lost because the developers insisted in stretching it across hours upon hours of busy-work. "

Yup.
This part is nonsense though, git gud etc :p
"Some said bosses have such HILARIOUS auto-tracking that a speed build/L-Armor build becomes folly ".

Despite this ive played the game for like 300 hours (Not counting the beta's), because the combat is simply that good. The first play through certainly dragged for me but id already played the game for like a 100 hours before release in all fairness. The game needs to use its enemies better, by the end of a first playthrough you'll notice that some enemies have been killed <10 times, whilst the main yokai 100> times.
I can not stand the loot system, but it has its hooks into some people so w/e. Level design was just maze like in parts, although the gimmicks for each level were nice.
 
Moff

Moff

Member
as someone who loved both darks souls and ninja gaiden, Nioh feels like the worst of both worlds for me, gameplaywise. level design is boring and enemy variety poor. itemization is completely broken because of the revenant system and leveling/perks are uninteresting and unmotivationg

you can tell, I didn't like it a lot, after all that praise I was sure disappointed

best thing about it are the 60fps and the option to chose between performance and better graphics, every game should do that
 
A

AgentOtaku

Member
GReeeeN said:
Yet, you still put 50+ hours into the game, says something doesn't it?
Click to expand...

Get out of here with this baity shit man

Yeah, I gave it a fair shake. I acknowledged what it did well and what it did well kept me addicted for a long ass time. That, in itself, is a huge compliment

Eventually the well ran dry tho
 
J

Jombie

Member
I was getting really bored and tired of it and thought I'd push through since I felt I had to be getting towards the end.. I was only halfway. It's seriously one of the most tedious games I've ever played and such a missed opportunity in places. With Feudal Japan as the setting, they could have gone to town on the aesthetics of the levels and it still baffles me that they chose everything to be dark or rainy.
 
dancingphlower

dancingphlower

Member
The combat is good, but something about the game just kind of put me off, not sure why. The boring levels did not help. I loved the Souls games though so it's not like I don't like these kinds of games.
 
A

AgentOtaku

Member
Jombie said:
I was getting really bored and tired of it and thought I'd push through since I felt I had to be getting towards the end.. I was only halfway. It's seriously one of the most tedious games I've ever played and such a missed opportunity in places. With Feudal Japan as the setting, they could have gone to town on the aesthetics of the levels and it still baffles me that they chose everything to be dark or rainy.
Click to expand...

This is when I noticed something was off as well. I got at to a point where I felt, yeah this is probably wrapping up.... and was only getting to the 4th region :/
 
K

KiNolin

Member
Thinking about the main missions, there actually isn't even that much that I would have wanted to see cut. I guess the first two levels are a little boring. I didn't care for the burning castle and that one rainy level with the cat boss. The rest was pretty good.
 
S

ScribbleD

Member
AgentOtaku said:
So I've probably put 50+ hours between two different characters (got really distracted with other things, so just decided to reroll at one point). As of right now i'm on the 4th region and I'm having to grind out levels in the sub-missions, otherwise, you tend to be 4 or so more behind the "Suggested level"

I.... I just don't understand how this game gets such a fucking pass for the fact that it's latter half is some ol' outright bullshit

- You will fight THE SAME enemies over and over and over again
- But once you're done fight those enemies over and over again, you'll eventually encounter a boss that will lead to an awkward as hell difficulty spike
- Some said bosses have such HILARIOUS auto-tracking that a speed build/L-Armor build becomes folly
- The Diablo loot system WILL eventually become tedious and it ultimately devalues EVERYTHING. You should not have to so much goddamn time in menus- and yes, this is even after utilizing the game's built QoL sorting/Item management flags
- The fucking reused levels.... like, I was willing to give this a pass because the core gameplay loop truly is god-like at points. Eventually tho, enough is enough. You've been thru the same graveyard, same rainy mountain pass, same village, same etc., OVER AND OVER again. It's so insultingly indulgent and rather the developers take the L and accept what they DO have is awesome, no, they have to completely spoil it in order to pad the game-length
NIOH DOES NOT NEED TO BE AS LONG AS IT IS.
What could have been a awesome, tight, 15 hour romp, becomes the epitome of excess.
- Then you have the plot, which yeah, one can follow it, but why should you give a shit. William just fixes everyone else's problems and MAYBE will get back to the entire point of even going to Japan. It's really sad to because the production values are good, the character models are gorgeous, the voice acting is pretty good, the dialog is solid. Yet, because you have seemingly a fairly limited narrative, the pacing/motivation get's completely lost because the developers insisted in stretching it across hours upon hours of busy-work.

Understand, I fucking adored this game the first 15 hours in. I still Loved 10 more hours in. Then exhaustion yet another 15 hours in. Now.... I borderline hate the game as it's such a wasted opportunity

I won't even go into Souls comparisons because I DO think Nioh is very much enough of it's own thing. The problem is said thing, is well... ultimately hollow on the other end
Click to expand...

1) They actually do a pretty good job of introducing at least 1-2 new enemies per mission right up until the last handful. Not sure where the lack of enemy variety complaint stems from.

2) Light armor is perfectly viable throughout the game. There's a chance you're playing a bit too much like Bloodborne where the dash is far more invincible. A lot of damage avoidance in Nioh is rooted in spacing yourself correctly I find. You have to play footsies with a lot of enemies, and to that end light armor is actually fantastic.

3) I ignored the granularity of the loot system almost entirely. Every few missions I'd soul match my current weapon with a higher level one and would very rarely bother looking at stats beyond that. Once you hit divine weapons just replace soul matching with higher level weapons to upgrading.

4) I'm not sure what you mean by reused levels, unless you're talking about side missions reusing levels. If that is what you're referring to, yeah, the sub missions are pretty forgettable, but also easy to ignore unless you want something specific out of one, like a particular guardian spirit.
 
A

Aters

Member
Aselith said:
I love it. If you want a game like Bloodborne, go play Bloodborne. There are plenty of games of the style, you don't need to try to enforce every game into your image.
Click to expand...

This is the worst way to dismiss well-constructed criticism. OP is just posting about videogame on a fucking videogame forum. How is he enforcing anything? It's not like he's pointing a gun to the developer. People can't say anything bad about a game because someone else likes it?
 
K

Kaako

Felium Defensor
I understand the "game is too long" complaint(s) but I feel the exact opposite for this game. I actually fucking loved it because I really enjoy playing this game. The more, the merrier in my eyes when it comes to Nioh. My most played game this generation for good reason. The gameplay and combat mechanics are utterly fantastic and even after months of not playing, I can jump right back in and feel that satisfaction.

It comes down to how deep your enjoyment of the game runs. Some have enough after 20+ hours, some can play forever. This is one of those games I think I can keep coming back to time after time again because of the excellent mechanics. It's my SFIV of last generation. Nioh is <3
 
N° 2048

N° 2048

Member
170 hours and counting (waiting for more DLC).
Currently at the end of NG+.

and did the entire thing in Rank A Agility (light armor).

One of my top 5 GOTY.
 
K

kromeo

Member
I'll agree on the diablo loot system, never liked that in a any game, it just completely takes all interest out of finding new gear
 
A

Aselith

Member
Aters said:
This is the worst way to dismiss well-constructed criticism. OP is just posting about videogame on a fucking videogame forum. How is he enforcing anything? It's not like he's pointing a gun to the developer. People can't say anything bad about a game because someone else likes it?
Click to expand...

Yeah, you're right sorry for being dismissive.
 
C

Chorazin

Member
I had a good time with the game, and the combat was fantastic, but I agree it got to be a slog near the end. As soon as I beat it I traded it is while it was still worth something.
 
D

DreamedLint

Member
I really can't share the sentiment about the levels being bad or the game being a slog. It didn't bother me at all to see some of the assets get reused, as the actual layouts of the stages were consistently fun and satisfying. People only ever seem to talk about ascetics and not the actual level design. Plus the last part of the game is one of its strongest. The last 3 main missions (and the post credits mission too, I suppose) feature some of the game's best stages and bosses. Nioh has a pretty high skill ceiling, so obviously the gameplay outweighs the problems people have with the samey levels. People don't complain when they replay shorter character action games.
 
M

Mass Effect

Member
I love Nioh. Have over 60 hours into it and still playing, doing every side mission and such. But yes, I will agree that is flawed in some aspects.

AgentOtaku said:
- You will fight THE SAME enemies over and over and over again
Click to expand...

Yeah... you do. Towards the middle and the end of the game you would expect to see some completely different, perhaps more powerful(?), enemies instead of the same ones with higher levels and slightly different skins/armor.

Introduce new common enemy yokai that highlight the increasing atrocities Kelly is committing or something.

- The fucking reused levels.... like, I was willing to give this a pass because the core gameplay loop truly is god-like at points. Eventually tho, enough is enough. You've been thru the same graveyard, same rainy mountain pass, same village, same etc., OVER AND OVER again.
Click to expand...

This isn't an issue for main missions, but it's definitely common for side missions. Only a few of them have their own unique areas. Most just use either the previous main mission or the same 4-5 levels made for side missions (grasslands area, abandoned temple area w/ underground cavern, grave/temple area, and a few others I can't remember).

And yes, the story is pretty poorly-paced as well, which is a shame because it's interesting and the cutscenes are beautiful.

Dropping it to 15 hours is way too short though. They'd either have to give you all of the skills way to quickly or (the more likely choice) have to cut a lot of them out, which would, I think make for a worse game overall.

Despite all the flaws it has, I still love the game. The combat is just too good. For me, it makes up all of the short-comings enough to let me thoroughly enjoy the game. If there is a sequel hopefully Team Ninja can address these issues.

I do think Nioh does show one thing: Team Ninja still knows how to do great action combat.

danowat said:
Does that not tell you there is something fundamentally wrong with the levelling system in the game?
Click to expand...

Nioh seems to follow the Souls philosophy where skill & equipment > level

So does that mean there's something fundamentally wrong with the leveling system in Souls too?
 
M

mark1982

Member
Nioh is fantastic, it did feel a bit long but in the end what a satisfying game. I wasn't a big fan of the diablo type loot system. I prefer the souls rare drop items and leveling up your weapon of choice. Solid experience overall though.

I finished the Dragon of the North DLC and what a challenge that last fight was. So good after finishing it though. Can't wait for more content.
 
G

Graciaus

Member
I eventually gave up on the game. Completing all the side quests before moving on really burnt me out. The loot stuff I hated and just got bored after awhile.
 
E

Emperor_Uriel

Member
Got the platinum and all trophies for the DLC. I have some issues with the wave-based arena missions being insanely cheap on Strong and Demon, but the game never stopped being entertaining or satisfying for me.

The fact that William still gets appreciably stronger even after reaching level 150+ helps a lot.
 
J

Jimrpg

Member
Well I have to agree with the thread title, though I don't agree with everything in the OP.

I work six days a week and have two kids, I've got 10 hours a week for gaming, and I was expecting Nioh to take oh roughly 30-40 hours at the most. I'm at 67 hours and have four stages left. I'm thinking this game just to do mostly the main quest is going to take 80-90 hours depending on how much of a bitch the last few bosses take. It's a slog alright. That's two and a half months of playing the same game. Yet i'm so close I just have to finish it.

BUT should I hold it against the game? The game is fucking brilliant. Having all the different weapons and stances to change in and out of is just tactically immense. It's just too long for me personally, but teenage me would probably love all the content.

The game definitely has a lack of monster variety and would do well if it had quicker enemies. There's just too many slow ones. The boss battles are fucking hard (but doable) and can easily fuck you over on one mistake. The story is trash. But everything else is really expertly designed.
 
C

CertifiedFP

Member
For being TN's first attempt at a Souls game it's pretty good.

Don't forget - even before Demon's, FROM had already spent the PS1 and PS2 lifespans building and perfecting the formula that the Souls series would follow under Miyazaki.
 
B

Badgerst3

Member
Disagree entirely. Almost at final mission. Looking forward to ng+.

Last night I was stuck and summoned a random- he walked me through hidden areas for final kodama bowls and even came back via secret world after he died. Ended with us killing the level boss.

One of the best, unspoken, coop experiences I have ever had. Made me smile.

Love this game.
 
E

emag

Member
I would have preferred a game with the structure of Onimusha 1 or 2 or Ninja Gaiden 1 or 2, but that in and of itself isn't a mark against Nioh.
 
J

Jimrpg

Member
Y2Kev said:
It's very hard to get. At least for me. I don't do things that I actively dislike or that actively drag down things I like. I stopped with Nioh maybe halfway through. I felt I got everything out of the mechanics and was satisfied. Admitting that you need to finish things as some kind of psychological driver seems like the first step in solving the problem!
Click to expand...

I think it really depends on the type of game. For games like Nioh, people see it as a badge of honour, because its hard. There are no prizes for climbing a mountain halfway, at least for people who want to say they beat it.

I know for me, I'm really close so being able to say I beat it would be a great personal accomplishment.

But like I said, it really depends on the game, I know for arcade games say like Pacman, I just stop whenever I've had my fill and I don't keep playing until i'm top 10 on the leaderboards or anything like that.
 
P

pbayne

Member
only 7- 8 hours in and yeah op makes some valid points imo. Still a blast to play but the loot shit should have streamlined somewhat and the enemies are very samey so far. Plus i just completely ignore all that crafting, soul match etc whatever stuff, just seems like adding depth for the sake of it.
 
R

rtcn63

Member
+/- Fast-paced, but repetitive combat... areas... enemies...
- For a Samurai game, the one-on-one human boss fights are mostly lackluster
- The loot aspect really adds nothing but wasted time, especially since all weapons of every type play 99% the exact same. (This is probably true of every recent game with loot tacked-on- either do it well, or leave it out please)

Interestingly still one of the better Souls-inspired games.
 
killatopak

killatopak

Member
MrCookiepants said:
When I heard the game was 50+ hours I was like nope, never touching this. Same with Persona.

Japanese devs are stuck in the past. The average age of gamers is much higher now. We're not kids wanting to spend our birthday money on one game to last until christmas.
Click to expand...

Japanese devs are great because I want games to be long.

Of course one way or another you'll alienate one group but I'd rather it be long. One way to fix this is have a relatively short main story line but tons of side content.
 
D

darkslayer101

Member
Even though I like the game I kinda have to agree with OP here.

The game grinds to a halt in terms of pacing and difficulty and I couldn't really appreciate the bosses on the latter half of the game. Their design and move set were great on my second playthrough.

The game also abruptly ended which threw me off because the game kinda dipped in the middle and then regained the momentum only to finish quickly.
 
D

DrunkShogun

Member
Didn't buy the game because of the hectic schedule and just waiting on the full dlc content to be release before I jump in. Might save it for a dry spell if it's as long as people are suggesting.
 
D

Dysun

Member
It's one of the best games this year, but it's definitely a slog at times.

Prime example of more content not being better. The side missions retreading old levels in a new way was interesting at first, but it definitely grows stale.

The lack of new enemy types towards the end and the reuse of bosses as sub mission end cappers also felt lazy, compared to the earlier 1 v 1 revenant fights.
I enjoyed the setting, art style, and obviously the combat enough to overlook alot of faults.
 
S

Soul of the Beast

Member
Agreed, it's one of the most repetitive Souls-like ever made.
I LOVE the combat system, weapons, armors, art style and aesthetic. But the game gets old so fast it blows my mind.
Even the boss music is extremely repetitive....there's like only 5 boss tracks in total or something.

It feels like a musou game at times, really. Also, Nioh is way too fucking easy compare to Souls games (even easy ones like DS2 & DS3) and when it's ''hard'' it heavily relies on multiple strong fast enemies ganking the shit out of you.

I thought this game is going to strach my Onimusha itch, but in the end I can't even bring myself to finish it. Instread I just went back to play Onimusha 1, 2, 3 again....for the 30th time.

What a disappointment, considered how much I loved the beta.

Expected Sleeping Dogs, gets Watch_Dogs instead. *sigh*
 
L

laxu

Member
CertifiedFP said:
For being TN's first attempt at a Souls game it's pretty good.

Don't forget - even before Demon's, FROM had already spent the PS1 and PS2 lifespans building and perfecting the formula that the Souls series would follow under Miyazaki.
Click to expand...

TN has done several Ninja Gaidens though so it's not like they are treading that new territory here. According to Wikipedia they developed the game for 4 years which should have given ample time to design quite a lot more enemies and levels. Even the first Dark Souls game has probably both twice the level and enemy count.
 
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