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Jag · Jul 24, 2017

KimiNewt said:
This is not entirely related but I've been boiling with this for a while and I have to say, while this is far from the straw that broke the camel's back, in the last year I've lost even the sliver of hope I had of a semi-peaceful resolution to this conflict.

You've always given a very honest opinion from the Israeli side. Which is why your prediction is so scary. Right wing power is dangerous in any country. We're seeing it in the US. Good people need to resist and push back against it.

Last time I was in Israel in the late 90s, land for peace seemed to be very possible and something most mainstream Israelis believed was a solution. Things have just fallen so far since then. I don't really see a viable end to this conflict that leaves Israel as a democratic state.

Elfotografoalocado · Jul 24, 2017

DiscoJer said:
When will the Kurds? Their homeland is split between 3 countries (Turkey, Iraq, and Syria) and have been horribly persecuted by all three. Thanks to the second Gulf War, they have some autonomy in Iraq, but Turkey regularly bombs them

What about the Yezidis? The world just watched ISIS murder and enslave them and basically did nothing., just half assed dropped some supplies

It amazes me that slavery exists in the world today and the world just shrugs. It's only Yezidi women getting raped multiple time daily. Not our problem.

The Palestinians have not been dealt a great hand, but they haven't done very well with the cards they were dealt. They shouldn't have attacked Israel to begin with and they maybe should have accepted the settlement that Clinton negotiated for them. Was it great? No, but it was a hell of a lot better than a lot of people have.

I agree wholeheartedly. That's why I think Israel should be boycotted and sanctioned, since it's an undemocratic, opressive, apartheid state. The international community cannot uphold justice by force, but Israel doesn't belong in the club of democracies.
I mean, saying as an excuse "these three dictatorships and this sect of rabid religious fanatics also bomb people they have occupied for decades" says a lot about Israel and democracy. It's just another violent sect.
Disclaimer: I believe the Jews in Israel have the right to live where they live, because there is already a state there and antisemitism is alive and well in all of the world. Israel has a right to exist, and although the idea of an ethnic state is kinda disturbing to me, I accept it for the troubled and complex history that led to the existence of Israel. What's done is done I guess. However, the ethnic cleansing of the area beyond the 1948 borders must stop, and Palestinians must be given a comprehensive compensation. My Jewish girlfriend agrees with all of this, and I'm glad because otherwise things would get tense

JustSomeone · Jul 24, 2017

Carcetti said:
You should've just let us know it's the first time you've heard of Israel or Palestine and have no idea of any previous history in the region.

I live in Israel,so...

KimiNewt said:
This is not entirely related but I've been boiling with this for a while and I have to say, while this is far from the straw that broke the camel's back, in the last year I've lost even the sliver of hope I had of a semi-peaceful resolution to this conflict. .

There can never be a peaceful solution with religious fanatics,

besada · Jul 25, 2017

Do not post open gore photos in a thread. If you feel you absolutely can't make your point without them, post a link.

Frankly, every imaginable side can produce photographs of atrocities, so waving the bloody shirt and screaming "See! See!" is not much of an argument.

Chichikov · Jul 25, 2017

And they're gone.

Israel removes flashpoint metal detectors at holy site.

It was such a dumb move to begin with.

brian577 · Jul 25, 2017

Chichikov said:
And they're gone.

Israel removes flashpoint metal detectors at holy site.

It was such a dumb move to begin with.

To get pissed of about? Yes. People fucking died there a week before they were installed. I'm not a big fan of intrusive security measures but considering organizations like ISIS have no qualm about killing other Muslims...it's not like the Israelis did it just to be dicks.

pigeon · Jul 25, 2017

brian577 said:
To get pissed of about? Yes. People fucking died there a week before they were installed. I'm not a big fan of intrusive security measures but considering organizations like ISIS have no qualm about killing other Muslims...it's not like the Israelis did it just to be dicks.

There are longstanding preexisting security agreements regarding the Temple Mount.

Israel violated them by installing the detectors. It caused a lot of anger, as you might expect, not because of the metal detectors themselves, but because the agreement says that Israel won't prevent Muslims from visiting the Temple Mount.

Now they're getting rid of them because it turns out antagonizing half the world is not that great a diplomatic strategy.

Saying "who cares, they're just metal detectors, people got killed" reveals either a deliberate or accidental ignorance of the situation.

brian577 · Jul 25, 2017

pigeon said:
There are longstanding preexisting security agreements regarding the Temple Mount.

Israel violated them by installing the detectors. It caused a lot of anger, as you might expect, not because of the metal detectors themselves, but because the agreement says that Israel won't prevent Muslims from visiting the Temple Mount.

Now they're getting rid of them because it turns out antagonizing half the world is not that great a diplomatic strategy.

Saying "who cares, they're just metal detectors, people got killed" reveals either a deliberate or accidental ignorance of the situation.

Actually what I'm saying is "what if it happens again?"

This would be like if airport security didn't change after 9/11. They're not to trying strip search people FFS. When a terrorist attack occurs you make changes or it will happen again.

Condom · Jul 25, 2017

brian577 said:
To get pissed of about? Yes. People fucking died there a week before they were installed. I'm not a big fan of intrusive security measures but considering organizations like ISIS have no qualm about killing other Muslims...it's not like the Israelis did it just to be dicks.

Idk about isrealis but Likud does do things just to be dicks. It's their strategy. And Likud leads the state of Israel.

Chichikov · Jul 25, 2017

brian577 said:
To get pissed of about? Yes. People fucking died there a week before they were installed. I'm not a big fan of intrusive security measures but considering organizations like ISIS have no qualm about killing other Muslims...it's not like the Israelis did it just to be dicks.

What did putting them there achieved?
More people died and then they were removed. And that was not unexpected.

Listen, you just don't fuck with the temple mound, that place is the mother of all religious powder kegs and current state of affairs is this really weird and fragile thing that kinda agreed upon by all sides because people recognize that if shit go wrong there, it goes wrong everywhere.

And don't get me wrong, it's not a perfect situation and if someone come with an idea about how to un-fuck it I'm all for it (though it's probably would have to come as part of a bigger Israeli Palestinian deal) but don't fuck with that live grenade with a poorly thought of instinctive reaction.
And that all it was, the head of Israel's homeland security felt that he "had to do something" because people were pissed, so he did, and then everyone decided to defend that stupid hasty decision as if the future of Israel depends on it.

brian577 · Jul 25, 2017

Well that accomplished little.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-40722999

Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas says he will maintain a freeze on contact with Israel, despite the removal of metal detectors at a sensitive religious site in East Jerusalem.

The installation led to deadly clashes and uproar from Palestinians who saw it as an Israeli attempt to assert control over the site.

If he thinks things will ever go back to the way they were he's a naive fool.

pigeon · Jul 25, 2017

brian577 said:
Actually what I'm saying is "what if it happens again?"

This would be like if airport security didn't change after 9/11. They're not to trying strip search people FFS. When a terrorist attack occurs you make changes or it will happen again.

Then I guess they should open diplomatic discussions with the countries they originally made the security agreement with rather than just acting unilaterally.

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Israel faces mounting Palestinian anger over holy site metal detectors

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