Admittedly most teenage boys would just go "you're gay" rather than draw something like THAT in loving detail. To many of them it'd be the equivalent of setting yourself on fire to jump on another guy to set him on fire.
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G. Kamitani replies to J. Schreier's Kotaku article on Dragon's Crown (slightly NSFW)
- Thread starter ULTROS!
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He must know that a literal teenager didn't draw it. So what he's saying, blatantly, is that the artist is not a man. He's a boy, because he likes heterosexual erotic art.
Here's the entry on wikipedia.
I didn't misuse the word at all.
How the hell are people making the connection between this picture and a gay slur? If anything it's the exact opposite.
Riposte
Member
I took it more like him showing off a picture that the kid Schreier implies him to be would never want to draw. Could be both at the same time.
XANDER CAGE
Member
For sure. I'd still personally chalk the amazon up as a more interesting female character design, considering that the game is going for erotic fantasy homage. At least it's branching out into less conventional depictions of both male and female characters.
OnimaruXLR
Member
Fuck Kotaku, where do they get off criticizing anyone else for being sleazy?
As for the response, I'm pretty sure it's meant to be a sarcastic demonstration of Kamitani's art style in general. Or to put it in simpler terms, I doubt Kamitani would demonstrate how "gay" anyone else is supposed to be by posting a picture of half naked men that he's drawn.
I really hate shit like this. It's the same ass backwards line of logic that thinks that Japanese biker club Dante is any more ridiculous than homeless Hayden Christensen English Dante.
I could understand if people were criticizing exploitative depiction of women in a game that's trying to be taken seriously (like say, Heavy Rain) but this is a fucking arcadey action beat 'em up where you're probably going to be fighting fantasy creatures that will probably be like, three screens tall. If you can't have an over the top art style for a game like that, what game can you have it for? I guess it's not okay at all! After all, if we have games that have any degree of individuality and authorship, how will they ever become palateable enough for the mainstream audience so that jerks like Crescente can play them in front of his family without getting EMBAAAAARSSED! D; Boy, I sure can't wait until every game features the exact same generic gun-haver bullshit starring some stupid brown haired white asshole who makes pithy Z-grade Hollywood action movie "quips" while gunning down enough people to populate Iceland! Then maybe the medium will get the respect it so clearly deserves!
I hate everybody
As for the response, I'm pretty sure it's meant to be a sarcastic demonstration of Kamitani's art style in general. Or to put it in simpler terms, I doubt Kamitani would demonstrate how "gay" anyone else is supposed to be by posting a picture of half naked men that he's drawn.
I really hate shit like this. It's the same ass backwards line of logic that thinks that Japanese biker club Dante is any more ridiculous than homeless Hayden Christensen English Dante.
I could understand if people were criticizing exploitative depiction of women in a game that's trying to be taken seriously (like say, Heavy Rain) but this is a fucking arcadey action beat 'em up where you're probably going to be fighting fantasy creatures that will probably be like, three screens tall. If you can't have an over the top art style for a game like that, what game can you have it for? I guess it's not okay at all! After all, if we have games that have any degree of individuality and authorship, how will they ever become palateable enough for the mainstream audience so that jerks like Crescente can play them in front of his family without getting EMBAAAAARSSED! D; Boy, I sure can't wait until every game features the exact same generic gun-haver bullshit starring some stupid brown haired white asshole who makes pithy Z-grade Hollywood action movie "quips" while gunning down enough people to populate Iceland! Then maybe the medium will get the respect it so clearly deserves!
I hate everybody
ULTROS!
People seem to like me because I am polite and I am rarely late. I like to eat ice cream and I really enjoy a nice pair of slacks.
Another 500 posts more and the thread will be as big as the Dragon's Crown reveal.
Uncle Rupee
Banned
One immature insult deserves another, especially online (note he didn't use a slur, just insinuated that he may prefer the sketch with no judgment either way).
And really Schreier should be so lucky to have inspired an original Kamitani sketch, regardless of subject matter.
Except that the art sort of is juvenile, its exagerates the breasts in a very noticible way, especially how they move in gameplay.
I don't know if its sexist or not, but even if it were that doesn't necessarily mean it shouldn't exist. But the fact is that it is rather immature, which means it fits in with the rest of this fiasco. The art is immature, the article is immature and the response is immature. Are the people involved immature though? Hard to say.
Calling a man a teenager is only emasculating in the most trivial and limited of ways. It is not asserting he is not male, just that he is not grown. If you follow your definition any insult aimed at a man is emasculating. Which is ridiculous.
I will agree to disagree with you on that one, there will be no convincing either party.
So, can you please answer this question?
That sucks, but that is not this thread, and people will always have opinions. Fans of things that are controversial need to learn to deal with it instead of getting defensive and angry at every other related thing.
Is the converse true? The smaller the titties the more mature the art is?
No, but it sure is a pretty baseless and daft accusation.
No, but it sure is a pretty baseless and daft accusation.
How is the Art immature? are exagerated proportions immature now?
Trent Strong
Banned
Maybe these character designs are a sort of satire.
Riposte
Member
Are we having a contest to see who can be more condescending or something?
Yep, but I have not attacked heterosexual women, which is what Shinta is asserting.
I would think more "Plausibly proportioned" is the most mature, I kind of suspect that the likes of Idea Factory and Compile Heart show the inverse isn't inherently true.
And... yeah, honestly the art style's just ridiculous on a whole, stuff like this is mainly a problem in a game that's supposed to be more grounded, or has these weird fanservice blips where they don't belong, Other M giving Samus's zero suit pump heels bugged me far, far more than any of this crap (though that game's got tons of issues on that front, intentional or not, anyway.)
So the guy's response was in essence to call JS a fag? ffs, what an asshole.
XANDER CAGE
Member
...not really, no. There was no implied slur, just (potentially, since the english isn't great) a stupid insinuation.
Someone better phone the Louvre then. Because they have a lot of immature paintings to take down.
Well, I think you can take that as either "you must want this then!" or "well I can provide this too then!" Similar, but they're leagues apart in how offensive they can be seen.
Well, I wasn't really thinking of that as a hard rule, I was more making the point that just because they went for small breasts doesn't mean it's inherently "more mature" or probably more accurately isn't inherently avoiding sexual appeal. So it really comes down to intent.
Where is the fun in plausibly proportioned though? Hardly anyone complains about all the hulking space marines in games but one set of big jugs and the internet lights up.
Smh.
That link was amazing. I had a passing interest in the game but this is really something else.
The attention to detail and the references are extremely impressive. It's much more thought than many games get when it comes to art style. When you see the game and characters as a whole you can't possibly think that these character designs were the result of some kind of focus tested pandering appeal. This looks like a game that has a very specific vision, and couldn't care less if this didn't appeal to teenage boys.
This is going to get dicey if people are quick to misinterpret...
I don't know why you don't see that mocking what people find sexually attractive is mocking sexuality. It goes for men or women, gay or straight.
If you want to find things women find attractive and start calling them cheap and juvenile for liking it, I would find it equally offensive. I hope that answers your question.
DJ Crimson
Banned
If JS decides to post in this topic and the post doesn't include links to other articles on Kotaku. I'll be disappointed.
toastyToast
Member
What I don't get is why people can look at a dude with an upper body the size of a studio apartment and say its ridiculous but are perfectly capable of drawing real life parallels out of a pair of breasts that look like they should be twisted into a giraffe or some other animal?
Just look at them.
Just look at them.
SixMachine
Member
Geez, a lot of people sound like they have some kind of pike up their butt when it comes to this. He definitely isn't doing this to totally spite him and call JS gay or anything like that. It's just a playful jab at another. You really thinking taking your time to personally draw 3 shirtless beefy dwarves is a good way to scream someone else is being gay? If you look into more replies on facebook Kamitani even writes.
I just think that if you want to criticize something, go ahead and do it professionally. I'm not entirely sure what that entails, but you don't just throw up a post, insult the game's art style because you don't appreciate it and hope for the best.
Seems amateurish on all fronts.
Then again, the response is a bit baffling too.
Seems amateurish on all fronts.
Then again, the response is a bit baffling too.
Maybe that's what someone finds most attractive.
... Well, that's officially a hopeless battle.
EDIT: Actually the point I'D want to argue for is more using whatever style works best for whatever you're doing, so that doesn't really make Dragon's Crown a big deal anyway. Everything about it is ridiculously over the top, I even wonder if those three men were from the game and just not shown until now when he wanted to conveniently pull a counter example on Jason Schreier.
Well... I didn't agree with the article at all, but the response is indeed a bit teenagery in nature. All is well though, people get too concerned with sexualization anyway.
Western moms should look at Japan for a good example. They have the most hypersexualized media in the world, but it's not like anyone is having any sex over there.
Western moms should look at Japan for a good example. They have the most hypersexualized media in the world, but it's not like anyone is having any sex over there.
Yes, it is mocking their sexuality, it is not mocking their sexual orientation. Come on, this is not hard. You haven't actually answered the question at all. It is a yes or no question about whether it means making that statement is attacking heterosexual women. So can you please answer the question?
I love medieval fantasy art style, I have lots of Conan books on my shelf with gorgeous Frazetta covers, but for me Dragon's Crown looks like someone didn't know when to stop exaggerating and ended with so grotesque characters that are embarrassing to look at.
And while i didn't play Muramasa or Odin, i've alwayes admired their art styles.
Schreier's post is a mess though.
And while i didn't play Muramasa or Odin, i've alwayes admired their art styles.
Schreier's post is a mess though.
You're just going out of your way to make his comment as benign as humanly possible. So he's mocking his sexuality, and calling him a teenage boy, robbing him of his manhood, but he's not mocking heterosexuals in any way? I'm done trying to convince you, when you even agree to disagree on word usage I was 100% correct in using.
I thought I pretty blatantly answered it. I don't want to repeat myself anymore. I don't know why you think I'm dodging anything. I took the time to answer your question specifically, and clarified exactly what my stance is, and it doesn't change depending on what gender we're talking about.
Hours Left
Member
Both sides in this have acted tastelessly. This is souring me on the whole game to be honest.
Though if this guy was playable, I would get over it.What about this one?
Depends on how they do it. In this case though...
Yeah, I'd say so. Not that I'm saying immature is bad, mind you. Some of my favorite games I like BECAUSE they're immature, I just think that we shouldn't pretend stuff like this is in any way mature.
Aha, absolutely!
ULTROS!
People seem to like me because I am polite and I am rarely late. I like to eat ice cream and I really enjoy a nice pair of slacks.
Yes, I took the picture reply to mean 'would a 14 year old boy draw this?'. The problem is his English isn't great.
There's also the issue if being immature even MATTERS here. Everything's ridiculous, maybe it does come off as some teenager's fantasy adventure, but that shows in about every aspect rather than just over sexualized women sticking out badly against normal men. Hell, the elf ranger or whatever seems to be the most normal looking character of them all anyway.
Yeah, exactly. Careful, someone will say you're "conflating" because you understand broad context.
if you go on the facebook page he's pretty much saying he actually likes kotaku and wants jason to like his work. He just wants them to understand what he's going for with the style
It actually makes me feel a little sad that the guy likes kotaku and they put out an article insulting him, his work and implying some pretty nasty things.
Uncle Rupee
Banned
That's the thing, Dragon's Crown takes that (already very exaggerated) fantasy art you mentioned and pumps it up to the extreme for stylistic purposes.
Whether you like it or not is your own opinion, but the Schreier
Chev said:
Amazing link, eats Schreier's opinion for breakfast
Yes, he said bad things about someone, I am not denying that. He did not say anything that attacked heterosexuality in general. You have done nothing to prove that other than reiterate the statement.
You said you would be offended which is fine, I would hope you would be, you have not actually answered the question. But okay, if you want to cut and run when faced with the absurdity of your position, feel free.
I like the exaggerated designs. I can't imagine the characters having much character development through whatever story there is, so the designs have to define the characters on first impression. GKH had more "normal" designs on your party members, but those characters had no development and were disposable so there wasn't much need to make them memorable.
Haven't played Muramasa yet so I've no idea how much time gets spent in developing the two "normal" playable characters versus stuff like Kongiku and the green butt lady.
Haven't played Muramasa yet so I've no idea how much time gets spent in developing the two "normal" playable characters versus stuff like Kongiku and the green butt lady.
Which might actually frame this as being a much more friendly jab than you'd expect. Maybe.if you go on the facebook page he's pretty much saying he actually likes kotaku and wants jason to like his work. He just wants them to understand what he's going for with the style
It actually makes me feel a little sad that the guy likes kotaku and they put out an article insulting him, his work and implying some pretty nasty things.
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