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*UNMARKED SPOILERS ALL BOOKS* Game of Thrones |OT| - Season 7 - Sundays on HBO

cj_iwakura

Member
I take some solace in knowing we'll get Winds in some form or another.

A Dream of Spring/Time for Wolves, that's the wild card.
 
I take some solace in knowing we'll get Winds in some form or another.

A Dream of Spring/Time for Wolves, that's the wild card.

Yes! And Winds is pretty much guaranteed to have a bunch of sweet battles: The Battle of Ice, the Battle of Meereen, maybe a Battle of the Bastards, and maybe the sack of Oldtown. Maybe we'll see an actually interesting capture of Casterly Rock as well.
 
No, but D&D ignored pretty much all of what he does in the books after he escaped KL.
those guys get a lot of stuff right, but they get a lot of stuff wrong too.
Yea, in the custody of Mormont unless I am misremembering. Man, just thinking about the books, if Winds ever comes out I am going to have to read cliff notes first just to remember everything I've forgotten.
Some told me it's coming out this year but this person has been known to bullshit a lot.
in the books he became a darker Tyrion (something the show Whitewashed), found another Targaryen and said he should go attacked Westeros, gets captured by Jorah, sold into slavery, meets another Dwarf, learns to care for her and signs himself into a mercenary group called the Second Sons (briefly mentioned in the show as under the command of Darrio).
that is a near complete departure of the character from the books, apart from meeting Jorah & slavery. He meets another Targaryen, that Targaryen is dead on the show now? If he's alive in the books then there's 3 candidates for the throne yeah?
 
those guys get a lot of stuff right, but they get a lot of stuff wrong too.

Some told me it's coming out this year but this person has been known to bullshit a lot.that is a near complete departure of the character from the books, apart from meeting Jorah & slavery. He meets another Targaryen, that Targaryen is dead on the show now? If he's alive in the books then there's 3 candidates for the throne yeah?
It's purported to be rhaegar's son aegon. Danys nephew. If he is who they say he is, he's certainly a contender for the throne. In the show he is dead. In the books he was dead, until he popped up. Ymmv on whether you believe he's really aegon, a total fake, or perhaps a blackfyre.
 

Apt101

Member
It's purported to be rhaegar's son aegon. Danys nephew. If he is who they say he is, he's certainly a contender for the throne. In the show he is dead. In the books he was dead, until he popped up. Ymmv on whether you believe he's really aegon, a total fake, or perhaps a blackfyre.

The entire Blackfyre thread read to me like it was self indulgent - like GRRM really enjoyed that portion of the fictional history he wrote, and wanted to see it come to a conclusion, but it was never going anywhere. I mean he really went deep into all of that with AWoIaF.

I expect them to finally be squished with finality early into Winds, and in the aftermath Tyrion spirals into service for Dany for good - at least until his story is done.
 

WaffleTaco

Wants to outlaw technological innovation.
Man them some long-ass books, I'm not reading them again.

I read Storm and Dragons twice. Dos. Never again.
I'm currently re-reading them only from Dany's perspective. I might do something similar with the others.
Dude it's never happening

Let it go



Ok!! Always wanted to try this
There are some helpful guides that can help make the transition from chapter to chapter easier.
those guys get a lot of stuff right, but they get a lot of stuff wrong too.

Some told me it's coming out this year but this person has been known to bullshit a lot.that is a near complete departure of the character from the books, apart from meeting Jorah & slavery. He meets another Targaryen, that Targaryen is dead on the show now? If he's alive in the books then there's 3 candidates for the throne yeah?
You should read the books, Books 4/5 are 50% on the show and 50% off or changed in various ways. The new Targaryen is Rhegar and Ellia's long lost son "Aegon" or so he and his advisor is told. He is raised to be the perfect King. There is a theory that he is not a true Targaryen, but from the bastard line known as the Blackfyres. Illyrio and Varys supposedly also have connections to the Blackfyres, which is to say that Varys wanted Aegon all along for the Iron Throne. This clears up some of the problems Varys story has in the show.
 

WaffleTaco

Wants to outlaw technological innovation.
Show tyrion after book 3 is a vast improvement over book 5 tyrion

They trimmed the fat in the best way possible by having him reach Dany in one season
I liked that he reached Dany in one season and actually got to meet her, however I feel as he as a character has suffered ever since.

The entire Blackfyre thread read to me like it was self indulgent - like GRRM really enjoyed that portion of the fictional history he wrote, and wanted to see it come to a conclusion, but it was never going anywhere. I mean he really went deep into all of that with AWoIaF.

I expect them to finally be squished with finality early into Winds, and in the aftermath Tyrion spirals into service for Dany for good - at least until his story is done.
I'm expecting Aegon to stick around for a while and possibly sit the Iron Throne for a short period of time. The faith will love him, and I think Littlefinger will try to plan for Sansa to marry him...however that involves a lot of complicated plot issues (like what happens to Cersei and the foreshadowing of her blowing up King's Landing).
 
I liked that he reached Dany in one season and actually got to meet her, however I feel as he as a character has suffered ever since.

I disagree. His character got better because he was finally acknowledged for his tactical skill and was given a position of power not because of his name, but because of his merits.
 

duckroll

Member
Thinking about it the scorpion shot at the dothraki should have gone through him and ripped him apart if it was capable of piercing Drogon.

No because it had no momentum. I don't even think it fully fired. He shot it and it basically stabbed through the wagon wall or whatever before it even left the scorpion.
 

cj_iwakura

Member
I'm a total pessimist when it comes to this book

There's no reason to be. Lots and lots of it exists, it might even be done. He's probably just constantly adding and editing stuff.

The scorpion thing is a piece of shit anyway. It had the effect of a toothpick on Drogon.

I'm guessing either

A. It was poison (low hanging fruit)
B. They'll have MORE, LOTS MORE (most likely)
C. It was a herring, and actually useless (I'd be impressed.)
 

Apt101

Member
I liked that he reached Dany in one season and actually got to meet her, however I feel as he as a character has suffered ever since.


I'm expecting Aegon to stick around for a while and possibly sit the Iron Throne for a short period of time. The faith will love him, and I think Littlefinger will try to plan for Sansa to marry him...however that involves a lot of complicated plot issues (like what happens to Cersei and the foreshadowing of her blowing up King's Landing).

It wouldn't be a bad narrative decision to have Dany annihilate the Golden Company. A true Targ (unless you believe the far out theories) finally ending the Blackfyres as she lands in Westeros.
 
I'm expecting Aegon to stick around for a while and possibly sit the Iron Throne for a short period of time. The faith will love him, and I think Littlefinger will try to plan for Sansa to marry him...however that involves a lot of complicated plot issues (like what happens to Cersei and the foreshadowing of her blowing up King's Landing).

Aegon will also raise the uncomfortable question of why we are rooting for Dany, if he is a better ruler than she is. I bet Aegon will take over from Cersei after Jaime kills her, and will be perceived as wise and beloved by the common man. Contrast that with Dany, who will probably leave Meereen in utter chaos, and arrive in Westeros and scare the shit out of everyone. No faction will want anything to do with her, unlike the show. Plus Aegon will have a better claim than her. But Dany'll have the dragons, the dothraki, and the unsullied, and she'll have the advantage of invading right at the moment when Euron brings down the Wall, sacks Oldtown, and summons some kind of supernatural horrors. So it'll be total chaos, and we'll feel kind of bad when she roasts him and takes back Blackfyre.
 
It didn't kill. She knows they have it. Their only hope was element of surprise and killing one. Though Bronn even hitting it was a miracle, Dany was an idiot to stay up there after one missed.

Bet you anything it's gonna kill a dragon

There's no way they'd make a big deal about it if it didn't do anything important.....

...wait that's like the MO for this show nevermind
 

Apt101

Member
I still think that big crossbow is a red herring and won't amount to jack shit. Hell, we may never even see one again.

A dragon will probably die this season - hell maybe all of them. But what kills it or them won't be some dumb Bond Villain type weapon. Even if glorious, shining Bronn is the one wielding it.
 

duckroll

Member
Actually all that the Scorpion has proven is that convention weapons do work against dragons with enough velocity. This means that basically any giant in the Night King's army is a walking Scorpion. Sux2bDany.
 

Speely

Banned
Qyburn is indeed a poison-happy character and I could completely see him trying to poison a dragon.

But he knows nothing about dragon physiology, really. The chances of making a poison that could fatally affect a species that you have literally zero chance to study as living creatures is almost zero. They have no existing analogue. That's why I think dragon poison would be dumb at this point.

Now, if he somehow got to study the greatspear that hit Drogon, I could see him cooking something up.

And yeah, yeah, it's fantasy. But there is a difference between realism and verisimilitude. I am fine with the former being mangled, but not so much the latter.
 

cj_iwakura

Member
I watched the documentary on episode 4, and it looks like some of the shots are from episode 5, since it shows
characters sitting around the ash in mourning.

Don't recall any of that during episode 4's chaos.
 
It's purported to be rhaegar's son aegon. Danys nephew. If he is who they say he is, he's certainly a contender for the throne. In the show he is dead. In the books he was dead, until he popped up. Ymmv on whether you believe he's really aegon, a total fake, or perhaps a blackfyre.
word yeah I heard about this. is Blackfyre a bastard surname?
You should read the books, Books 4/5 are 50% on the show and 50% off or changed in various ways. The new Targaryen is Rhegar and Ellia's long lost son "Aegon" or so he and his advisor is told. He is raised to be the perfect King. There is a theory that he is not a true Targaryen, but from the bastard line known as the Blackfyres. Illyrio and Varys supposedly also have connections to the Blackfyres, which is to say that Varys wanted Aegon all along for the Iron Throne. This clears up some of the problems Varys story has in the show.
I started reading the books but I'm very early on A game of thrones. Damn, this Aegon thing must be really important then making another departure from the show. GRRM said though that he revealed 3 big shocks to the books, and one of them is the ending, so..
 

jfkgoblue

Member
word yeah I heard about this. is Blackfyre a bastard surname?
I started reading the books but I'm very early on A game of thrones. Damn, this Aegon thing must be really important then making another departure from the show. GRRM said though that he revealed 3 big shocks to the books, and one of them is the ending, so..

Blackfyre was the name that a Targaryan Bastard took on after he was given the sword of the same name by his father. (Blackfyre is House Targaryan's VS ancestral blade)
 

WaffleTaco

Wants to outlaw technological innovation.
word yeah I heard about this. is Blackfyre a bastard surname?
I started reading the books but I'm very early on A game of thrones. Damn, this Aegon thing must be really important then making another departure from the show. GRRM said though that he revealed 3 big shocks to the books, and one of them is the ending, so..
Blackfyre is the bastard name for Targaryens. (Like Snow, Sand, etc.)

The books starts very similar to the show, but as they go on it differs more and more.
 

jfkgoblue

Member
Blackfyre is the bastard name for Targaryens. (Like Snow, Sand, etc.)

The books starts very similar to the show, but as they go on it differs more and more.

Not exactly. Snow, Sand, Rivers, Stone, etc refer to location that the bastard was born. Blackfyre is an actual house that simply started with a Targ bastard.
 

Slater

Banned
Actually, the Blackfyre's are not bastards, Daemon got legitimized and only had all his kids afterwards.

That's what made them such a pain in the ass
 
Blackfyre was the name that a Targaryan Bastard took on after he was given the sword of the same name by his father. (Blackfyre is House Targaryan's VS ancestral blade)
so there was a Targaryen who had an ancestral blade, and calls himself Blackfyre and also happens to be a bastard
Blackfyre is the bastard name for Targaryens. (Like Snow, Sand, etc.)

The books starts very similar to the show, but as they go on it differs more and more.
word, as much as it diverges though I wonder if the ending will still be kinda the same. also I thought bastard surnames only depended upon which province you were from. North, the Reach, Dorne, etc.
 
Blackfyre was the name that a Targaryan Bastard took on after he was given the sword of the same name by his father. (Blackfyre is House Targaryan's VS ancestral blade)

Just for some additional background: that bastard was not a normal bastard like Robert's. He was the child of a Targaryen king and one of the king's Targaryen princess cousins, one that he wasn't married to. So he was a full Targaryen in terms of blood, *and* he was legitimized on his father's deathbed, *and* he was given the ancestral sword, *and* he was an incredible warrior who looked like a king; whereas the legitimate heir was a bookish nerd who *might* have been his brother's son, not his. The whole Blackfyre story is pretty awesome, actually.
 

jfkgoblue

Member
so there was a Targaryen who had an ancestral blade, and calls himself Blackfyre and also happens to be a bastard

word, as much as it diverges though I wonder if the ending will still be kinda the same. also I thought bastard surnames only depended upon which province you were from. North, the Reach, Dorne, etc.

The targs had 2 VS blades, and like said above, House Blackfyre was started by a Targ bastard, but became a legitimate house with legitimate lands. After Daemon Waters was legitimized and given Blackfyre he took on the family name Blackfyre.
 

Tiktaalik

Member
Blackfyre is a House name.

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Blackfyre

In 182 AC, King Aegon IV Targaryen chose to bestow Blackfyre on his bastard son Daemon Waters, a born warrior, instead of his scholarly legitimate son, the future Daeron II Targaryen. Daemon, who had been known by the bastard surname Waters until then, took the name "Blackfyre" thereafter, creating House Blackfyre.[9] Some felt that the sword symbolized the monarchy, so the gift was one of the seeds from which rebellion grew.[10]
 

jfkgoblue

Member
Yeah I also have to agree on having the spinoff be the blackfyre rebellion would be cool to see, but I in general despise prequels because you already know how they end.

Would much rather have a sequel, but it looks like that isn't the way it is going to happen, so of the ideas I have seen on the internet, the Blackfyre rebellion is the best.

Pretty sure that the Golden Company and/or Aegon has it.
 
The targs had 2 VS blades, and like said above, House Blackfyre was started by a Targ bastard, but became a legitimate house with legitimate lands. After Daemon Waters was legitimized and given Blackfyre he took on the family name Blackfyre.

I see...you know I feel like the books are so much richer with lore than the adaptation, despite the fact that the adaptation is a show instead of a movie
 

duckroll

Member
I see...you know I feel like the books are so much richer with lore than the adaptation, despite the fact that the adaptation is a show instead of a movie

To be fair, I think a lot of this lore isn't really laid out in the books in as interesting a way as they are here. Some of it is bits and pieces of casual dialogue across all the books pieced together by fans, and the bulk is from the linear history of Westeros as written in The World of Ice and Fire. If you're mainly interested in the backstory and lore stuff, you might want to grab that book instead. It's really nice.
 

In earlier drafts of the chapter when Tyrion hooks up with the group escorting Aegon around, they speak some Volantene to each other, and he can pick out the words "queen," "dragon," and "sword." In the published version, GRRM took that out. So a lot of people are confident that in WOW Aegon will reveal he has Blackfyre.
 
To be fair, I think a lot of this lore isn't really laid out in the books in as interesting a way as they are here. Some of it is bits and pieces of casual dialogue across all the books pieced together by fans, and the bulk is from the linear history of Westeros as written in The World of Ice and Fire. If you're mainly interested in the backstory and lore stuff, you might want to grab that book instead. It's really nice.

i'm a pretty hardcore fan of the show, so i'll probably read the World too. when you say "here" do you mean here on GAF or here in the World book?

edit: sorry for double post
 
To be fair, I think a lot of this lore isn't really laid out in the books in as interesting a way as they are here. Some of it is bits and pieces of casual dialogue across all the books pieced together by fans, and the bulk is from the linear history of Westeros as written in The World of Ice and Fire. If you're mainly interested in the backstory and lore stuff, you might want to grab that book instead. It's really nice.

The Dunk and Egg stories all touch on Blackfyre stuff -- they're collected in A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms, and I think they're great.
 
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