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Zelda Skyward Sword Spoiler Thread: Retelling the Legend without the black bars

T

The Boat

Member
RagnarokX said:
Red hair and yellow eyes; the defining characteristics of the Gerudo. I like how you call that silly when it's based on evidence, then connect Ghirahim to Dark Link based on nothing at all.



Nintendo should sell a clock like this.
Click to expand...

What about the Dark Skin? Saying a single person is the origin of an entire race doesn't make sense to me.
Girahim turns into a dark Master Sword, how the hell is that nothing at all? It was the first thing I thought of when he turned into it.
Plus, Ghirahim clearly ends up hating Link and the two (three if you count four swords) times he appears he pretty much appears just to fight him, there's doesn't even seem to be a connection to Ganondorf although this is just speculation :p
EDIT: He also shows up in ST and OoA. Maybe in TP, but that's not exactly it.
Link_vs._Dark_Link_%28The_Adventure_of_Link%29.png

Seriously.
 
R

RagnarokX

Member
The Boat said:
What about the Dark Skin? Saying a single person is the origin of an entire race doesn't make sense to me.
Girahim turns into a dark Master Sword, how the hell is that nothing at all? It was the first thing I thought of when he turned into it.
Plus, Ghirahim clearly ends up hating Link and the two (three if you count four swords) times he appears he pretty much appears just to fight him, there's doesn't even seem to be a connection to Ganondorf although this is just speculation :p
Click to expand...

That's how races develop, though. Humans all used to have the same skin color, but some moved to colder climates and developed lighter skin colors. This is even easier. Groose already has the defining characteristics of the Gerudo. The only thing missing is the darker skin, and several generations of living in the desert would take care of that. Who knows how the males only born every 100 years thing works.

Dark Link is a shadow version of Link. There's nothing more to extrapolate. Ghirahim is an evil brother of the master sword.
 
T

The Boat

Member
RagnarokX said:
That's how races develop, though. Humans all used to have the same skin color, but some moved to colder climates and developed lighter skin colors. This is even easier. Groose already has the defining characteristics of the Gerudo. The only thing missing is the darker skin, and several generations of living in the desert would take care of that. Who knows how the males only born every 100 years thing works.

Dark Link is a shadow version of Link. There's nothing more to extrapolate. Ghirahim is an evil brother of the master sword.
Click to expand...

Hmm.. well, OK I guess.
Still I think it makes a lot of sense to connect an immortal dude that hates Link and turns into a dark master sword to an immortal dude that fights Link on several occasions and has a dark master sword. C'mon, what are the odds? If not, why would they even have him turn into it? Ghirahim being Dark Link is just stretching it a bit, but being the Master Sword that Dark Link wields? Seems damn probable to me, again, what are the odds.
 
R

RagnarokX

Member
The Boat said:
Hmm.. well, OK I guess.
Still I think it makes a lot of sense to connect an immortal dude that hates Link and turns into a dark master sword to an immortal dude that fights Link on several occasions and has a dark master sword. C'mon, what are the odds? If not, why would they even have him turn into it? Ghirahim being Dark Link is just stretching it a bit, but being the Master Sword that Dark Link wields? Seems damn probable to me, again, what are the odds.
Click to expand...

Why wouldn't he have a master sword? Stand in front of a mirror. Your reflection has everything you have. Dark Link is just a reflection.

In OoT Dark Link was Link's reflection in the water. When you pass the island in the middle of the room, Link's reflection disappears and turns into Dark Link.

In FSA Dark Link was created with the Dark Mirror and there were multiple.

In Zelda 2 Dark Link was created from Link's shadow.
 
R

Red

Member
I've wanted to post these pics for a while, since they are so unusual for a Zelda game. I don't want to show them in the Dolphin thread because they contain spoilers, but I think (hope) it is okay to post them here. This was one of my favorite moments in the game, because of how foreign the imagery is for this series.





 
J

Jocchan

Ὁ μεμβερος -ου
It wouldn't have made a lick of sense, but for a moment I was totally expecting those blocks to form some pixel art from the first Zelda.
 
G

Green Mamba

Member
"Dark Link" isn't a singular creature/character. Each incarnation has a completely different origin. A lot of the Zelda fanbase likes to treat Dark Link like a character, but he really isn't.

And I still think connecting Groose as the progenitor of the Gerudo is just stretching. He kind of sort of looks like one, but that's it. It requires a huge amount of extrapolation based on evidence that quite frankly isn't there to come to a progenitor conclusion.

If anything I think he just vaguely looks like Ganondorf because the makers wanted to play into the whole Link vs. Ganon dichotomy with his childhood rival.

Had he, say, wore the Gerudo symbol or mentioned that he really likes a desert, I might give it to you. But it's all based on similar hair and eye color.

EDIT: It's like assuming Stritch is Agitha's ancestor because they both have blonde hair and both like bugs.
 
M

Mistle

Member
What do you mean with better colour?

And yeah, I know it's a lot easier said than done (maybe even impossible), but I really wish the Wii U would upscale. Guess I'll just have to buy into the whole inevitable HD remasters, lol
 
R

RagnarokX

Member
Green Mamba said:
"Dark Link" isn't a singular creature/character. Each incarnation has a completely different origin. A lot of the Zelda fanbase likes to treat Dark Link like a character, but he really isn't.

And I still think connecting Groose as the progenitor of the Gerudo is just stretching. He kind of sort of looks like one, but that's it. It requires a huge amount of extrapolation based on evidence that quite frankly isn't there to come to a progenitor conclusion.

If anything I think he just vaguely looks like Ganondorf because the makers wanted to play into the whole Link vs. Ganon dichotomy with his childhood rival.

Had he, say, wore the Gerudo symbol or mentioned that he really likes a desert, I might give it to you. But it's all based on similar hair and eye color.

EDIT: It's like assuming Stritch is Agitha's ancestor because they both have blonde hair and both like bugs.
Click to expand...
How is it a stretch? The Gerudo culture wouldn't develop imediately, that would be silly. Having similar hobbies is very different from having the same physical characteristics. What would be silly is saying Groose becomes Ganon. It's perfectly reasonable to think the Gerudos are descended from Groose.

klE6j.jpg


The yellow eyes especially point to this. That's not a normal eye color.
 
MisterHero

MisterHero

Super Member
Telma from TP is sort of hinted in her design to be part Gerudo but she doesn't have yellow eyes

Gerudo integration in TP might explain the round-eared Ordon people too.

Not all traits have to transfer, too. I suppose

@ BY2K

Sheeeeeit
 
R

RagnarokX

Member
MisterHero said:
Telma from TP is sort of hinted in her design to be part Gerudo but she doesn't have yellow eyes

Gerudo integration in TP might explain the round-eared Ordon people too.

Not all traits have to transfer, too. I suppose
Click to expand...

Their ears are round in artwork, but pointy in-game; just not as long as Hylian ears.
 
W

Watch Da Birdie

I buy cakes for myself on my birthday it's not weird lots of people do it I bet
I find it weird how Gaepora spends all his time standing in one place in his room and taking a bath while his daughter is literally missing.

I wish he had more of a role in the game, IMO.
 
K

KarmaCow

Member
So I've been wondering about this for a while, but do people in Skyloft see Fi? The Kiwikis do, but Fi pops up right in front of people and they don't even acknowledge that this floating blue thing popping out of nowhere repeating what they already said with some bullshit percentages.
 
B

Branduil

Member
The Boat said:
What about the Dark Skin? Saying a single person is the origin of an entire race doesn't make sense to me.
Girahim turns into a dark Master Sword, how the hell is that nothing at all? It was the first thing I thought of when he turned into it.
Plus, Ghirahim clearly ends up hating Link and the two (three if you count four swords) times he appears he pretty much appears just to fight him, there's doesn't even seem to be a connection to Ganondorf although this is just speculation :p
EDIT: He also shows up in ST and OoA. Maybe in TP, but that's not exactly it.
Link_vs._Dark_Link_%28The_Adventure_of_Link%29.png

Seriously.
Click to expand...
Based on Twilight Princess it seems more likely that Dark Link has something to do with the Twilight Realm.
 
A

apana

Member
Fi was actually a history major, she just keeps throwing out those numbers to look smart. She started out as pre med but got a C in Calculus and ever since her life hasn't been the same.
 
G

Green Mamba

Member
RagnarokX said:
How is it a stretch? The Gerudo culture wouldn't develop imediately, that would be silly. Having similar hobbies is very different from having the same physical characteristics. What would be silly is saying Groose becomes Ganon. It's perfectly reasonable to think the Gerudos are descended from Groose.

klE6j.jpg


The yellow eyes especially point to this. That's not a normal eye color.
Click to expand...

This just strikes me as something akin to that failed Spider-Man reboot they did in the late nineties (or so) that made Sandman into Norman Osborn's cousin because they had similar hair. There is literally nothing to go on except hair and eye color. Yellow is unusual, but hardly something I would base a theory like this on.

This is almost as bad as the theory that the monkeys in TP are the Kokiri.

Branduil said:
Based on Twilight Princess it seems more likely that Dark Link has something to do with the Twilight Realm.
Click to expand...
Dark Link is not a single entity, but several different beings that all happen to be superficially similar. There is no one origin to Dark Link.
 
L

Lord_Byron28

Member
KarmaCow said:
So I've been wondering about this for a while, but do people in Skyloft see Fi? The Kiwikis do, but Fi pops up right in front of people and they don't even acknowledge that this floating blue thing popping out of nowhere repeating what they already said with some bullshit percentages.
Click to expand...

What strikes me even weirder is that some of the villagers barely even know who Zelda is. One villager comes to me and asks 'Did you and your girlfriend that your always with, what was her name Zelda?, have a fight? I haven't seen her around often and you guys used to be 24/7.'

paraphrasing since I can't remember the exact quote but she could barely even remember Zelda's name and didn't act like she had ever met her before. Makes no sense.
 
A

apana

Member
Dark Link is a person? I always thought it was just the result of a magical spell that forces you to fight a dark version of yourself. Kind of like fighting your own shadow or reflection.
 
P

Papercuts

fired zero bullets in the orphanage.
KarmaCow said:
So I've been wondering about this for a while, but do people in Skyloft see Fi? The Kiwikis do, but Fi pops up right in front of people and they don't even acknowledge that this floating blue thing popping out of nowhere repeating what they already said with some bullshit percentages.
Click to expand...

IIRC right when you first chase her and get your sword Gaebora is there and there's basically a convo between you three, so yeah. For whatever reason people don't seem to care. I actually liked that touch in TP, people freaked out at your wolf form, midna didn't let your transform in front of them, and she was your shadow as a human to hide.
 
D

Dreamwriter

Member
RagnarokX said:
How is it a stretch? The Gerudo culture wouldn't develop imediately, that would be silly. Having similar hobbies is very different from having the same physical characteristics. What would be silly is saying Groose becomes Ganon. It's perfectly reasonable to think the Gerudos are descended from Groose.

The yellow eyes especially point to this. That's not a normal eye color.
Click to expand...
Here's a question: Zelda and Link stay on the surface and basically start the line of the Hylians. Groose also stays on the surface, everyone else seems to return to the sky. What is it that Groose mates with that spawns a line that eventually becomes Gerudo?
 
T

The Boat

Member
RagnarokX said:
Why wouldn't he have a master sword? Stand in front of a mirror. Your reflection has everything you have. Dark Link is just a reflection.

In OoT Dark Link was Link's reflection in the water. When you pass the island in the middle of the room, Link's reflection disappears and turns into Dark Link.

In FSA Dark Link was created with the Dark Mirror and there were multiple.

In Zelda 2 Dark Link was created from Link's shadow.
Click to expand...

Green Mamba said:
"Dark Link" isn't a singular creature/character. Each incarnation has a completely different origin. A lot of the Zelda fanbase likes to treat Dark Link like a character, but he really isn't.
Click to expand...

Branduil said:
Based on Twilight Princess it seems more likely that Dark Link has something to do with the Twilight Realm.
Click to expand...

Green Mamba said:
Dark Link is not a single entity, but several different beings that all happen to be superficially similar. There is no one origin to Dark Link.
Click to expand...

apana said:
Dark Link is a person? I always thought it was just the result of a magical spell that forces you to fight a dark version of yourself. Kind of like fighting your own shadow or reflection.
Click to expand...

I see nothing here contradicting the fact that there might be a connection between Ghirahim as a dark Master Sword and Dark Link. I don't think Dark Link is a person either, more like a magical force that appears to fight Link.
Ghirahim turning into a Master Sword strikes me as an obvious attempt from Nintendo to make a connection to Dark Link. What are the odds that in a game where there are so many origin stories and small hints made in typical Nintendo vague fashion about pretty much every other Zelda game a dark Master Sword is shown and has nothing to do with oh... the other dark Master Sword. Especially when Demise lays a curse on Link and his successors for all eternity, which of course is "reflected" on Ganon, but it can probably be linked to Dark Link as well.

I'm not saying anything as black and white as Ghirahim is Dark Link (I first said that more to propose a connection) or that he's Dark Link's Master Sword while keeping his consciousness, in fact I think the problem in linking Zelda's lore is that people try to make things too exact or literal. The fun is to keep things vague.

Most of these things are to be viewed as imprecise connections, legends especially since magic and spirits are involved. For example, something along the lines of Ghirahim's magic and rage living on coupled with Demise's curse and magic and giving origin to Dark Link or whatever. I just think it's too much of a coincidence for it not be an intended connection in a game filled with connections, nods and origins.
 
C

Crucio

Member
I feel that Dark Link is nothing but a recurring challenge based on the "Overcome One's Self" principle and is always brought forth through some sort of magical reflection. To think that Gihrahim has anything to do with it is absurd.
 
G

Green Mamba

Member
Doubly absurd because the only Dark Link that would even be wielding a "dark Master Sword" would be the miniboss from Ocarina of Time. All of the other times a Dark Link has appeared either the Master Sword isn't in the game at all (Zelda II, FSA, ST), the Dark Link(s) doesn't wield any weapon (OoA, TP), or the encounter has dubious canonicity (ALttP GBA, and even then the Dark Links are a representation of the Four Sword, not the Master Sword).
 
C

Caelus

Member
Fi is seen by the people in Skyloft, they always turn their heads towards her, but they don't seem to mind- after all during night they're attacked by jelly blobs and bats and having their children kidnapped, so a sexy blue sword girl wouldn't really be all that jarring.
 
T

The Boat

Member
Green Mamba said:
Doubly absurd because the only Dark Link that would even be wielding a "dark Master Sword" would be the miniboss from Ocarina of Time. All of the other times a Dark Link has appeared either the Master Sword isn't in the game at all (Zelda II, FSA, ST), the Dark Link(s) doesn't wield any weapon (OoA, TP), or the encounter has dubious canonicity (ALttP GBA, and even then the Dark Links are a representation of the Four Sword, not the Master Sword).
Click to expand...

I know it's only artwork, but the one I posted is from Zelda II. I'm not sure you can consider what appears in TP Dark Link, that was just... weird. Ilia was there too.
Again, I'm not saying it's something exact, just that there seems to be an intended connection, even if just for parallelism purposes (Zelda is ripe with this, the similarities between OoT and AlttP, Ghirahim, Agahnim and Zant, etc), after all Ghirahim is pretty much the antithesis of Fi, the "spirit" of the Hero's sword and Dark Link is the antithesis of the Hero. I just like to think that Demise's curse manifests itself in ways other that just Ganondorf (although that is the main point) and Dark Link is a part of it with some possible connection to Ghirahim (which we never saw die), even if just a "poetic" or spiritual one.

I don't want to get into fan fiction territory I exaggerated when I first expressed myself in saying he might be Dark Link, just saying that a connection isn't all that absurd and to me one of the coolest things about Zelda stories is that they intentionally leave lots of things vague and up to interpretation. If you want to say that it's completely absurd when the nods are all there, well OK I guess. No less absurd than saying a single person originated an entire race because of the color of his eyes and hair, although now I agree, it might be a nod.
 
R

RagnarokX

Member
Dreamwriter said:
Here's a question: Zelda and Link stay on the surface and basically start the line of the Hylians. Groose also stays on the surface, everyone else seems to return to the sky. What is it that Groose mates with that spawns a line that eventually becomes Gerudo?
Click to expand...

Why are we assuming everyone else stays in the sky?

Gerudos aren't a separate species. Hylians, Humans, and Gerudos are all the same species. Gerudos in OoT mate by kidnapping Hylian/Human men. The red hair and yellow eyes are dominant genes :p

Kokiris just look like humans in OoT because, I dunno, maybe they felt Link would have a more comfortable time living with human children than walking tanuki balls.
 
L

Lindbergh

Member
So many things to speculate from this game:

The 3 dragons
They share the same name as 3 of the Light Spirits in Twilight Princess.
Do they eventually become them several generations later?

The Sealed Temple
That the Master Sword rests here makes me wonder if the temple becomes renovated into the Temple of Time. The pedestal against a forest backdrop is reminiscent of the sword's location in Twilight Princess and A Link to the Past (that and it's also near Faron Woods).

There already was a culture before Hylians
The Temple of Hylia & the ruined Temple of Time in Lanayru raise further questions on who inhabited the land before.

The Lanayru Desert
It is known to have harbored a sea and the Lanayru Province in Twilight Princess contains Lake Hylia. So does this region cease to be arid in the future?

Fi
She says it herself that she is going to sleep in the sword forever.
I wonder if Nintendo would have the sword speak again to Link in future games.
She expresses her wish to meet Link again in another time. Is this fulfilled when future Links take up the sword (but isn't she supposed to be asleep?)

Fi's theme is awesome btw. Nintendo did well to establish an emotional connection between Link and the Master Sword, it gave a new perspective and life into the latter.
 
L

Lunar15

Member
I really hope they use motifs of Fi's theme when link gets the master sword in future games. Not a whole lot, but just a little to resonate a bit.
 
S

Shin Johnpv

Member
Lindbergh said:
There already was a culture before Hylians
The Temple of Hylia & the ruined Temple of Time in Lanayru raise further questions on who inhabited the land before.
Click to expand...

It's the people of Skyloft's ancestors. Remember the goddess raised Skyloft to the sky and blocked off the world below after demise's, I guess first attack. The way the intro, and other things talk about it, there were people on the ground before Skyloft went up into the sky.
 
L

Lindbergh

Member
Shin Johnpv said:
It's the people of Skyloft's ancestors. Remember the goddess raised Skyloft to the sky and blocked off the world below after demise's, I guess first attack. The way the intro, and other things talk about it, there were people on the ground before Skyloft went up into the sky.
Click to expand...

Dope, that's right.
 
$

$200

Banned
So what happens when you beat Hero's Mode? Does the game ask you to start again? Or just show The End without asking you to save like in OOT?
 
C

Crucio

Member
So I'd like to confirm something; If you're carrying a Heart Medal in Hero Mode Boss Rush, will it take effect?
I've bee thinking about how hard the Boss Rush will be in Hero Mode without the presence of Hearts in the various stages. I'm not looking forward to it.
 
R

Red

Member
Crucio said:
So I'd like to confirm something; If you're carrying a Heart Medal in Hero Mode Boss Rush, will it take effect?
I've bee thinking about how hard the Boss Rush will be in Hero Mode without the presence of Hearts in the various stages. I'm not looking forward to it.
Click to expand...
The ones that add hearts to your counter? They don't work.
 
G

Green Mamba

Member
$200 said:
So what happens when you beat Hero's Mode? Does the game ask you to start again? Or just show The End without asking you to save like in OOT?
Click to expand...
It gives you the option to create a save just before Demise, and you get a Triforce symbol on your file on the file select screen. You can't start another after that, you have to erase the file if you want to play again.

Crucio said:
So I'd like to confirm something; If you're carrying a Heart Medal in Hero Mode Boss Rush, will it take effect?
I've bee thinking about how hard the Boss Rush will be in Hero Mode without the presence of Hearts in the various stages. I'm not looking forward to it.
Click to expand...
You can't use anything from your Adventure Pouch in Boss Rush except for the shield you have equipped. The medals you're carrying in your Adventure Pouch do nothing in Boss Rush. There is absolutely no way to heal yourself in Hero Mode boss rush. It is as hard as it sounds.
 
C

Crucio

Member
Well I guess I'll have to resort to lots of backflipping and well timed shield counters! Man the normal boss rush was tough for me. Always had to gather hearts.

Hero mode forces you to dodge and use the shield a lot. Hopefully I'll be used to those things by the time I get to Lanaryu.

Nintendo-4Life said:
There is a way to "kind of" cheat. I've used it and it works, highlight the spoiler to know

drink a guardian potion + right before you speak with him. You may not be able to access your pouch in the middle of the challenge but the effects don't disappear. That means you are guaranteed not to take a single hit during the first two or three boss fights (depending on your speed I suppose
Click to expand...

What about a Guardian ++? Can you make those? Or is it just a double use?
 
A

ASIS

Member
Crucio said:
So I'd like to confirm something; If you're carrying a Heart Medal in Hero Mode Boss Rush, will it take effect?
I've bee thinking about how hard the Boss Rush will be in Hero Mode without the presence of Hearts in the various stages. I'm not looking forward to it.
Click to expand...

There is a way to "kind of" cheat. I've used it and it works, highlight the spoiler to know

drink a guardian potion + right before you speak with him. You may not be able to access your pouch in the middle of the challenge but the effects don't disappear. That means you are guaranteed not to take a single hit during the first two or three boss fights (depending on your speed I suppose
 
P

Platy

Member
Ok .... someone spoiled me something that i need to be verified by the people here ...

Is it true that THERE ARE NO CUCCOS ?

No bird to slash and something insane to happen ????
 
S

Sagitario

Member
Nintendo-4Life said:
There is a way to "kind of" cheat. I've used it and it works, highlight the spoiler to know

drink a guardian potion + right before you speak with him. You may not be able to access your pouch in the middle of the challenge but the effects don't disappear. That means you are guaranteed not to take a single hit during the first two or three boss fights (depending on your speed I suppose
Click to expand...

I believe it works for 3 complete fights.
 
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