From memory, there are a handful of people that have stated they like the ending, and maybe two or three that have defended it.
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Mass Effect 3 Spoiler Thread |OT2| Taste the Rainbow
- Thread starter Patryn
- Start date
Empty Space
Member
We get a few crazies Shepard and Dechaios are the two most ardent defenders on this board I've seen. There's a bunch of people on the Giantbomb forums who seem to like it too.
With or without actually thinking about the ending.
Also
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bJweWDFDfU
God damn amazing.
I missed that in my first playthough and just cracked up when I first saw the video. Although it is jarring not to have as much traditional ME dialogue with the crew (traditional in the sense of getting a dialogue wheel and navigating the conversation), I loved all of the detail put into various squad interactions and dialogue. Javik and Tali, Javik and James, James and Garrus, Garrus and Joker, Garrus and Wrex, James and Ash ... I am sure there are bits I have missed in my 1.5 playthroughs. It would have been great to have all of that in addition to traditional dialogue, but all in all, it really brings the Normandy to life.
Ultimadrago
Member
No problem.
I haven't read much of these threads as of yet, but I have a huge issue with the obsession pver child #1! I do not have the source, but perhaps some of you can jog my memory.
There was a time when Bioware showed a sneak peek at Mass Effect 3's beginning.
In that part, there is a child that won't take your help when you offer it. The child ends up going on a ship that gets blown to smithereens.
People called Bioware out on a pathetic attempt at a heart tug/pull. Bioware responded (I do not remember if on forum or by interview) that the event was of no major emotional impact and that it was not intended to have that impact. (Correct me if I'm deviating far from the statement)
THEN, I'm chasing that kid in the woods SEVERAL TIMES and he burns after I catch up to him. Still a stupid attempt at pathos, still made me roll my eyes and made me insulted that Bioware would sprinkle the same tune of the child that they implied they wouldn't/didn't intend to play throughout the game.
Even if they meant to do it, it was a terrible element that made me feel nothing extra towards the war effort or the child that died. Then putting a cherry on top with a child representing the Catalyst.
Tl;DR: The child element sucked and Bioware shouldn't have milked it throughout the story.
This has little to do with the ending, but I had to put it out there.
^ That's how a lot of us think. The child is a cheap shot at emotions.
Since they don't really talk during battle, they make up for it in the Normandy. I can't remember, but was there much banter in ME2?
heliosRAzi
Banned
There are a couple who defend the theme shift at the end
I don't think ME2 had as much. In-mission banter was comparable, but ME3 had more unique dialogue in the pre-mission shuttle rides.
There was a bit more banter with squadmates during missions in ME2. Much less in the ship though.
I guess it came down to a design decision. If you create banter specific to a combination of two squadmates, there is a big change that a large number of players will miss that content. Let's say that I just roll with Liara and Tali and no one else, I miss out on a lot of stuff.
So now that the banter is on the Normandy and just triggered by missions, it's way easier to actually catch them. It's also more organic and life-like than just having everything fed through conversations.
Hey, there is good stuff in ME3. Forgot about that. :|
I think the catalyst would have been more effective in terms of the story if it had appeared in its original form(whatever the fuck that would be) or some more interesting form compared to the little kid. The catalyst taking the form of vent-kid is kind of like a Contact rip-off.
EA viral marketing.
Honestly, I kind of saw some cop-out move like this coming the second they introduced the catalyst in the game. I think they really written themselves into a corner with the story. They made the reapers into this huge unbeatable force that there is no realistic way for Shepard to win without some sort of deus ex machine. That's the problem with most epics like these where you're saving the entire planet/race/galaxy.
In some ways I wish there was a story point the reapers win and just kills all the advance races. But stories like that are never told because people always want a happy ending. I'd imagine the shitstorm to be even bigger than what it is now if the reapers won in the story and everyone basically dies or ends up like the Jedi in Star Wars where there are only a few survivors but not enough to repopulate their race or build advance tech again.
diamondstar
Member
I hope Gaf keeps digging and start to realize the ending wasn't the worst thing about ME3. There is a ton of story that just doesn't make sense.
Oblivionmancer
Member
Not the only bad thing I'll readily grant you. But I'd have to call it the worst thing.
There isn't? There is nothing wrong with the Catalyst prior to its reveal as a fucking hologram kid. Just saying "Oh the citadel is the catalyst" and showing the crucible somehow attaching to it or focusing a beam through it or whatever the fuck else is sufficient. It works perfectly well as essentially a macguffin. It's not a deus ex machina to have the catalyst destroy the reapers - you know about the crucible the entire game, and that the catalyst is some part of the crucible you need for the vast majority of it. I think you're confused about what a deus ex machina really is. Yeah, the reapers are strong, but through the combined knowledge of countless cycles of annihilation, we have finally perfected this weapon that can destroy them. There's nothing ambiguous about that or confusing. It would work fine. Only the writer's own hubris prevented us from having that perfectly satisfying and 'normal' ending. Instead of "Why didn't the catalyst work?" just show the crucible shoot a beam into the citadel and the citadel sprays out some kind of laser accross to all of the mass effect relays in the galaxy and it annihilates the reapers. Done. That's not a deus ex machina, that's literally what the entire plot of ME3 TOLD you would happen.
You could nitpick any of the games just as much. The ending is the only thing that is objectively bad.
heliosRAzi
Banned
I sometimes think so
Metroidvania
People called Romanes they go the house?
Nah, there's some other silly stuff, like why did Thane take on a ninja with a sword in hand to hand when he had a gun previously, why did Miranda not know where the IM's base was until she planted a tracer on Kai Leng, why did the human alliance, with Hackett believing in the reapers, not scour the archives on Mars until the three years into the invasion, etc.
But most of it doesn't matter, as the thematic elements are able to carry those weak points of the story through.
The ending has no ambience, no audience appreciating the forethought of the games that came before it and how its influencing events now, in ME3. It must stand on its own, and therefore fails on its own.
HadesGigas
Member
It's also that each of these things you can go "well it doesn't make sense but it could be explained somehow". There's so much wrong with the ending that it's pretty flat out impossible to explain it all, and drowns out the game. That one video illustrated it well.
Except that it really was the worst thing about ME3.
ColonelColon
Member
http://www.gametrailers.com/video/mass-effect-mega64/728610
I'm not really even sure what they're trying to say here.
I'm not really even sure what they're trying to say here.
Arf urg. I won't even bother watching that. :|
HadesGigas
Member
That people who don't like the ending are entitled whiners.
I still enjoy the games so I wouldn't sell them, but it bums me out that this is what this series will be remembered by: a blunder of an ending that renders the story of all three games irrelevant.
Anyway, relative to video games, Mass Effect had a great story despite it being in the action/shooter genre. The illusion of choice worked well enough, combat became progressively better, and it had enough customization and spec options to warrant a pseudo RPG classification. I like what Mass Effect represented and maybe it would be the beginning of more engrossing action games.
It's such a shame none of that matters anymore. With all the venom and vitriol going on about the series in hindsight along with the poorly written ending, it seems the majority have written off Mass Effect as a joke. At least until Bioware fixes the ending, which is a similarly ridiculous notion as well. That sets a precedent where developers can "fix" their narrative by selling us DLC, on top of the fact that they can get away without getting it right the first time. Prince of Persia 2008, Fallout 3, and (more recently) Asura's Wrath are already doing this and it would be awful if Mass Effect 3 follows this trend. I'm worried that the damn thing will probably sell well considering it's what people want.
As for me, I didn't ask for a new ending. I didn't even consider such a thing an option until I read up on all the nonsense. It's a brave new world when us fans can demand something like that and I don't think that's what I want to be a part of. All I am is disappointed, really, and there's not much more I can say. Yeah, it's just a video game, but I would have rather felt pretty alright about the series as opposed to unequivocal indifference towards it all.
dilatedmuscle
Member
Yeah...l except there are no hints at all throughout any of the games that thats true. I know youre joking comparing it to IT but seriously there are pieces that can be hints to IT since ME1 through Saren, Rachnii Queen, and Codex describing Indoctrination Symptoms as they progress (all of which shepard experiences from ME1 all the way up to the ending of ME3).
The IT doubters have some reason but you have to understand that IT was put together using reason and common sense, not made up bullshit someone thought would be cool.
This made me say wtf?
When she was like "I can do better than that" I assumed her next line would be telling us where, since you know..in the opening of ME2 she's standing right next to him and she was second-in-command so obviously she should know where it's at.
Proposed Law
Member
Yeah kinda bummed out too. I beat ME 2 with every class type and played through all dlc too. I'm not even sure I want to fire this game up again.
That's because there was an indoctrination plot line. It was dropped a while back.
And really, what do you make of one of the writer discussing the current ending with no mention of indoctrination whatsoever? What about the numerous design documents from the "Last Hours of ME3" app?
heliosRAzi
Banned
And the production notes that don't mention anything about indoctrination
Metroidvania
People called Romanes they go the house?
Honestly, at this point, it's no longer a theory, it's a metaphor for the hope of the fans, not only in ME, but in Bioware's storytelling ability. (Which I personally lost after DA2) Fans don't want to believe that Bioware could really do this to them.
I personally think the Indoc. theory would be cool if true (as there are a lot of hints/nods i.e. the Rachni Queen and the "dark smoke" that is indoctrination during the dreams, etc.. that specifically are geared towards it), and I'll happily eat crow IF Bioware can prove it was the original plan, and not something concocted on the fly, but I don't see Indoc. theory happening.
....Unless Bioware's "clarification" of the current endings and stating that they aren't going to re-do anything involves the IT leading to a much better ending to the trilogy.
LightofRohan
Member
I'm a big M64 fan. But I never agree with any of their views... and I know for a fact none of them played/finished ME3. And isn't the worst argument, "It's just a game!" what's that even mean? I'd say that too the people that are enraged, threatening the lives of the companies, picketing for days ect. ect. But it's just people discussing/voicing their opinions. And I know for a fact that Mega64 gets upset about games and films.
I do wonder what will the main ME team work on now. Are they going to start working on a new ME game or something entirely new? It seems EA have the Edmonton studios make sequels after sequels.
ME Team
ME1 -> ME2 -> ME3
DA Team
DAO -> DAO Awakening -> DA II -> DAIII
Well EA owns Bioware so EA has the rights I guess.
ME Team
ME1 -> ME2 -> ME3
DA Team
DAO -> DAO Awakening -> DA II -> DAIII
Well EA owns Bioware so EA has the rights I guess.
^ Maybe some new game.
I just saw this. I guess they did just create the end sometime last winter in a rush, as if we hadn't speculated on that.
I just saw this. I guess they did just create the end sometime last winter in a rush, as if we hadn't speculated on that.
You did it mega64 . . .
Ultimadrago
Member
Loved it.
Empty Space
Member
I don't get the video. I've never liked Mega64 so maybe that's why I don't get it, but I'm just kind of confused. Nobody is saying gimme gimme gimme, but thats what they feel like they're making their video about.
dilatedmuscle
Member
Saren was indocrtinated but failed because he was an enemy to civilization, same thing with The Illusive Man. Shepard on the other had isnt an enemy to civilization. He essentially became their leader. With Shepard indoctrinated, the reapers essentially become the leaders of all civilization and they have the ability to send them into their own death instead of taking hundreds of years to eradicate them and risking some sort of resistance.
Supposedly they cut the indoctrination gameplay because it didnt work, that doesnt necessarily mean the whole indoctrination story arc over 3 games got cut in the last 10 minutes.
One of two things will happen;
1. Indoctrination Theory which covers all the plot holes will end up being true and those who appreciate it will consider it one of the best stories ever.. or...
2. IT is not true and the current plot-hole filled non-sensible ending is true and Bioware became mentally challenged while writing the final 10 minutes that they screwed a whole franchise.
All we can do is wait and see what they say. They did say there will be closure so those who dont expect some sort of resolution are being a little too pessimistic.
Aren't they buying some new studio that "people aren't going to be happy about"
At least that's what was said in that EA Viral Marketing thread on GAF the other day.
Unless it's Obsidian I wouldn't be happy with Mass Effect being foisted on another developer.
LightofRohan
Member
Man can't wait for next Friday. I'm just so curious how they are going to discuss it... it doesn't seem like they'll say what it is... "So the ending WAS indoctrination and the ending DLC will reflect that! Here are 400 free cupcakes for all of you!"
heliosRAzi
Banned
You'd rather the game end without resolving the main plot for the entire series?
PastorOfMuppets
Banned
Well aside from the endings. Some issues I had with ME3's plot:
- Every character - except for Mordin, introduced in ME2 is reduced to a minor cameo. The Miranda subplot in particular was so bad, they would have been better off if they did it via email.
- Pretty much everything having to do with Kai Leng is stupid. Also it irks me that the sole reason for an Asian male to play a prominent role in this game is to be a ninja.
- The Virimire Survivor arc. It's even worse if s/he happens to be a love interest.
- Every character - except for Mordin, introduced in ME2 is reduced to a minor cameo. The Miranda subplot in particular was so bad, they would have been better off if they did it via email.
- Pretty much everything having to do with Kai Leng is stupid. Also it irks me that the sole reason for an Asian male to play a prominent role in this game is to be a ninja.
- The Virimire Survivor arc. It's even worse if s/he happens to be a love interest.
It's okay, Shepard was an asian dude. (In my game.)
PastorOfMuppets
Banned
Considering how they handled player choice in the Witcher, I wouldn't mind seeing those guys tackle a sci-fi RPG.
Psychoward
Banned
^ Maybe some new game.
I just saw this. I guess they did just create the end sometime last winter in a rush, as if we hadn't speculated on that.
You did it mega64 . . .
No bugs? Ha!
How about the giant import bug.