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They should bring back pre-rendered backgrounds
- Thread starter I NEED SCISSORS
- Start date
brain_stew
Member
I NEED SCISSORS said:
The camera was still (mostly) fixed but the game was no longer 2D. That's why the controls improved, because they actually created a 3D action game, not a pseudo 3D action game that was just played on a 2D plane without seemless transitions from frame-to-frame.
DodgyGeezerFella
Member
Actually im being stupid, its not the pre-rendered i care for its the static camera. Herp derp.
Backfoggen
Banned
brain_stew said:
HD playback of pre-rendered background animation, higher poly and overall higher quality 3d objects that fit well into the backgrounds.
It's still a long time till the next console gen, until then something like an RE2 remake with 1080p backgrounds would be something I'd buy.
Flying_Phoenix
Banned
Ogs said:
We really aren't far off from achieving comparable graphical fidelity in full 3D.
I just don't get why people want this style of gameplay back. Nearly all of these games play horrible and have the most simplistic and mediocre game design. Just like 95% of "3D" games of that era.
There's no way that this is a serious post.jett said:
I NEED SCISSORS
Banned
brain_stew said:
I think a major point of contention though is that consoles nowadays are just not capable of doing much more. They are maxed out. You won't be able to get environments that do as much as or look as good as REmake, but in real-time at 1080p blah blah without it being on a new console.
I'll definitely say that when a new console comes out which has an equivalent GPU to an ATi 6xxx or 7xxx series card, then pre-rendering may not be necessary because you'll have the technical grunt by that point. But until that time comes, pre-rendering is the only way to accomplish that. And before we start pulling out the upscaled REmake pics again, come on: we can all imagine how good it would look with native 1080p assets.
brain_stew
Member
Backfoggen said:
Good luck fitting more than a couple of them on a DVD. Unless we all want to play games with nasty compression artefacts!? :lol
The 3D models will never fit correctly in the world, ever. They're going to be lit completely differently and that means they'll always look out of place.
brain_stew
Member
Himuro said:
The (majority of the) expense of CG movies doesn't come from rendering the same background 30 times, it comes from creating the background in the first place and you still have to do that when making a game with pre-rendered backgrounds.
beelzebozo
Jealous Bastard
are you still editing like a boss monthly, himu?
Future PhaZe
Member
Prerendered has passed a lot of games by...but I would really be in favor of it for a new Final Fantasy game. You'd probably end up with a game that looks better than XIII and has way more content. It might also allow a Wii version that isn't completely inferior...which allows the series to make more money.
It will never happen though.
It will never happen though.
Flying_Phoenix said:
I posted a picture of a good-looking PS1 game made by Squaresoft that has "full 3D" towns, contradicting your bullcrap.
The PS1 factually has a higher polygonal throughput than the N64. Educate yourself.
Vagrant Story(and others) annihilates any N64 game you care to mention when it comes to texture detail.
What wasn't serious about my post?
brain_stew
Member
I NEED SCISSORS said:
Then buy a PC or a Wii2 when it launches in 12-18 months. You can have better graphics if you want them, no need to completely destroy the gameplay in every console game in the meantime just because you have some irrational fear of PC gaming or Nintendo hardware.
brain_stew
Member
Himuro said:
If you've got a few hundred million dollars spare, I'm sure someone will be willing to take you up on your offer. In the meantime no one of sane mind is going to risk vast sums of money on such a ridiculous project.
Backfoggen
Banned
brain_stew said:
Blu-Ray/2 DVDs. Modern compression codecs should make this possible.
That's a pretty bold statement considering that the RE1 remake did a relatively good job with it 9 years ago. (don't look at emulated pics)
brain_stew
Member
jett said:
It doesn't like. You may have to use custom microcode to achieve it and reduce the IQ over most N64 games (but still above PS1 games) to manage it, but its definitely possible and shipping games (ike World Driver Championship managed it just fine.
I NEED SCISSORS
Banned
brain_stew said:
I already do PC gaming - I built my PC a year ago to the spec that you suggested in the budget PC thread. But just because I invest in a piece of hardware does not suddenly mean that the games I want made will come. Capcom are hardly going to make a hypothetical REmake 2, with fixed camera angles, PC exclusive just for the sake of making it completely real-time. Neither are Square going to make FFXVI a PC exclusive for the same reason. They are developed for consoles foremost and therefore have to be kept within the limitations of consoles - sad but true.
And again with people saying this would apply to every game. It's been said time and time again that this resurrection of pre-rendering need only apply to a handful of titles in specific genres where the gameplay would be suitable.
brain_stew
Member
Himuro said:
I'm being ridiculous? That's pretty rich coming from the guy asking for someone to fund two concurrent multi million dollar projects just to satisfy his curiosity (it'd be impossible to compare the budget without a placebo). No one is going to commission a project like that, so unless you have the cash spare, then its a silly (read: "ridiculous") request to make.
brain_stew
Member
Backfoggen said:
Nope, not a chance in hell. Games with less than an hour of pre-rendered 720p cutscenes look a garbled mess on the 360. Clean, artefact free HD video eats through disk space like nothing else and you're going to need multiple animations for each and every rendered scene. Sorry, but I'm not prepared to play a game stuffed to the brim with compression artefacts.
Remake was a ~3GB game. So, just offer a game of the same length in 1080p without any added animations, you're talking about 18GB of space and that's before adding multi channel sound and the much better real time assets. Add all those 1080p animations all over the place and the disc space required is going to balloon completely out of control.
This game would have to be PS3 exclusive and use a dual layer BD-ROM, maybe two. Now tell me, how many publishers are creating PS3 exclusive content with huge multi-million dollar budgets these days?
Time to take your fight to Sony, I reckon.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
I hope that we eventually see some pre-rendered work on the 3DS, depth and all.
brain_stew
Member
EatChildren said:
Any game on the 3DS that used pre-rendered backgrounds wouldn't be compatible with the depth slider and wouldn't pass QA.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
brain_stew said:
Uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuugh.
It disappoints me that my PC gaming brethren seem too closed minded to appreciate the kind of technical leverage and potential prerendered BGs could have for certain types of games. Almost every background in RE for gamecube was filled with tons of subtle animations and the 3D elements like water and characters blended seamlessly. Of course it's going to look like shit when you render the game at 1440x1080 on an emulator, the gc can't output more than 640x480 so why would they waste space rendering HD backgrounds? Why even bring that up?
I'd kill to play a heavily stylized adventure game (like TLJ) or something with 1080p prerendered backgrounds. Of course it's not economically viable and it's not going to happen, but it would allow an extreme level of detail in both the characters and environments and make it playable on even low-end machines. Is it wrong to want things?
I'd kill to play a heavily stylized adventure game (like TLJ) or something with 1080p prerendered backgrounds. Of course it's not economically viable and it's not going to happen, but it would allow an extreme level of detail in both the characters and environments and make it playable on even low-end machines. Is it wrong to want things?
REMake looks astonishingly good, to this day. Since the backgrounds were pre-rendered, pretty much the ENTIRE console's power could be used on character models, allowing them to be a full console gen ahead of everything else out there.
Additionally, one of the more subtle things Capcom did with REmake and RE: Zero was implement FMV in the pre-rendered backgrounds themselves, to make them feel much less static. Yes it was smoke & mirrors, but it was EXTREMELY effective. Wind blowing through trees and bushes, lightning strikes out the window, fan blades turning, the motherfucking SHARK, etc.
At the time, I literally didn't know how they were pulling it off.
Additionally, one of the more subtle things Capcom did with REmake and RE: Zero was implement FMV in the pre-rendered backgrounds themselves, to make them feel much less static. Yes it was smoke & mirrors, but it was EXTREMELY effective. Wind blowing through trees and bushes, lightning strikes out the window, fan blades turning, the motherfucking SHARK, etc.
At the time, I literally didn't know how they were pulling it off.
This thread has convinced me that it probably depends on the genre.
If we're talking about a budget point-and-click adventure game, RTS, or any type of game with an overhead or isometric camera, I think pre-rendered backgrounds are acceptable.
If we're talking about a shooter, action game, or anything that actually benefits from or requires a dynamic camera, then pre-rendered backgrounds would just be a step back.
If we're talking about a budget point-and-click adventure game, RTS, or any type of game with an overhead or isometric camera, I think pre-rendered backgrounds are acceptable.
If we're talking about a shooter, action game, or anything that actually benefits from or requires a dynamic camera, then pre-rendered backgrounds would just be a step back.
TheFLYINGManga_Ka
Member
Suikoden Treikreis (I think that's how you spell it) had some beautifully illustrated backdrops.
It was a nice combo of 2D illustration with polygon characters. I'd love to see a 2D Zelda-styled game like that with beautiful 2D backgrounds with cel-shaded 2.5D characters.
It was a nice combo of 2D illustration with polygon characters. I'd love to see a 2D Zelda-styled game like that with beautiful 2D backgrounds with cel-shaded 2.5D characters.
Exactly. Fixed perspectives were an exceptionally useful tool to communicate meaning and intent of space. A grammar of the visible.The Take Out Bandit said:
It doesn't matter how static they are: fixed perspectives guide attention in a very active and continuous fashion and by that evoke and affect emotions. It's difficult to create an emotional memory of space, if the player has accurate control over its perspective. If you had been able to swirl the camera around in Lindblum (Final Fantasy IX) or inside Raccoon City police station, I'd argue they wouldn't have made the same emotional impact.
In the "real world" social norms act as our guides. If you could look at your loved one's naked body in any fashion you would like, from every conceivable perspective: sexual appeal would soon cease to exist.
I'm not arguing for more pre-rendered backgrounds in games. They are a thing of the past. Just like the emotional depth of games. Bringing them back would feel like grave desecration. Developers have found new means of communication. We now have "good writing".
I don't care if they are prerendered or realtime, I just want more fixed-camera angle games. I hate games that force me to nurse the camera while playing (i.e. a lot of over the shoulder type games). Fixed-camera angle games are much more 'cinematic' I feel.
Don't flame me for resurrecting an old topic with such a short post, but I just wanted to throw in my two cents.
I fully support the return of prerendered backgrounds for certain genres, namely RPGs and Adventure games.
If there's one thing that this generation of games has been SORELY lacking, it's quality JRPG's. How many times have people said, with regard to Final Fantasy 7-9, "They don't make JRPG's like this anymore..." Well, they're absolutely correct! Games of that scale simply cannot be created in this climate of HD, stereoscopic 3D, surround sound gaming.
Prerendered backgrounds (with animation and lighting effects ala REmake), to me at least, can be livelier and prettier than anything in Final Fantasy XIII.
I don't have the time or the stamina right now to give my full thesis on this subject, but I just wanted to let any lurking developers know that I would LOVE LOVE LOVE to see high-quality prerendered backgrounds make a return in slower-paced games.
I fully support the return of prerendered backgrounds for certain genres, namely RPGs and Adventure games.
If there's one thing that this generation of games has been SORELY lacking, it's quality JRPG's. How many times have people said, with regard to Final Fantasy 7-9, "They don't make JRPG's like this anymore..." Well, they're absolutely correct! Games of that scale simply cannot be created in this climate of HD, stereoscopic 3D, surround sound gaming.
Prerendered backgrounds (with animation and lighting effects ala REmake), to me at least, can be livelier and prettier than anything in Final Fantasy XIII.
I don't have the time or the stamina right now to give my full thesis on this subject, but I just wanted to let any lurking developers know that I would LOVE LOVE LOVE to see high-quality prerendered backgrounds make a return in slower-paced games.
D
Deleted member 20920
Unconfirmed Member
Actually I think FFXIII still uses prerendered backgrounds. The skies and backdrop look like prerendered images to me.
There's this particular place in Sunleth that looked like it was totally prerendered. Hence the "you only see it from a path" ness of that area...
I'll add screenshots if i can find any.
There's this particular place in Sunleth that looked like it was totally prerendered. Hence the "you only see it from a path" ness of that area...
I'll add screenshots if i can find any.