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Jubenhimer · Sep 26, 2017

I think the problem is that Sony doesn't really have many PlayStation properties that can work in a mobile environment. Most of their first party games are long demanding experiences that are better experienced at home on a console. Whenever they try to adapt them for the handheld, they're always watered down in comparison, because they're trying to be exactly like the console counterparts, yet the design and specs of both the PSP and Vita hold them back. The PSP may have done fine thanks to it's multimedia features which were actually seen as novel at the time, but it's software attach ratio outside Japan was terrible. And the Vita failed completely both with proprietary memory, AT&T as your cellular provider, and lack of third party support.

With Nintendo, one reason they've been able to hold on to this territory for so long is simply due to the fact that most of their IP are perfectly suited to mobile play. They're generally very simple games you can pick up easily and play, even if you only have 30 minutes to spare. So it makes sense for them to go the hybrid route. If Sony were to make another mobile console, they would need to make sure the games can be enjoyed in short bursts, console quality or otherwise.

SinCityAssassin · Sep 26, 2017

MrRemyJe said:
I gave you an answer earlier.

I mean, most of those games you listed weren't big budget. They're all Hey! Pikmin tier.

JeremyEtcetera · Sep 26, 2017

EdgeXL said:
The only one who moved goalposts was you.

Wait...what? When?

And your link proves me right. Sony gave up making big budget games for Vita after they released Killzone M.

I can tell you didn't look good because you posted back here way too fast. It took me a good few minutes to find the games for your list, but to each his own. You have a narrative in your mind you believe to be right. I can see there is no convincing you otherwise. I'll sit here with my imaginary Sony Vita games that never came out after Killzone M and enjoy them. I don't want us to kill this thread even more so if you want to discuss it further just pm me. I'm out.

AmyS · Sep 26, 2017

shaneo632 said:
Holy shit I had no idea the PSP sold so well . I think I know like 1 person who owns one.

I think PSP was the only dedicated handheld game system that sold in the multiple tens of millions of units that wasn't a Nintendo handheld.

kennyamr · Sep 26, 2017

It is a waste to invest on smaller games for a handheld that doesn't sell very well in western territories, instead it is better to just focus on big blockbusters for the main console.

EdgeXL · Sep 26, 2017

MrRemyJe said:
Wait...what? When?

I can tell you didn't look good because you posted back here way too fast. It took me a good few minutes to find the games for your list, but to each his own. You have a narrative in your mind you believe to be right. I can see there is no convincing you otherwise. I'll sit here with my imaginary Sony Vita games that never came out after Killzone M and enjoy them. I don't want us to kill this thread even more so if you want to discuss it further just pm me. I'm out.

First you claimed Sony didn't give up on Vita. Then you claimed they gave up on Vita in 2016. Then you claimed you never said they didn't give up on Vita. That is goalposts moving.

I am completely correct. Sony stopped making big budget games after Killzone M. Your own list proved me correct as the only big budget game on it began development before the system ever released. There is no big budget Vita game developed after Killzone M came out. Thus I am correct. There is literally no point in discussing it further.

Everlya_Apocryha · Sep 26, 2017

JoeyJungle said:
Whooaaaaa I did not realize PSP did that much better than Vita. This is outside of Asia sales, so it's not even Monster Hunter effect vs console without Monster Hunter.

I still think it was the fucked up high price/low storage proprietary mem cards that doomed the Vita.

the custom firmware lunacy of the PSP basically flourish in Asia and makes it the best portable emulator machine in existence.

i was running GBA, SNES and CPS2 emulator on my PSP even then...imagine playing arcade perfect version of SFA2 or playing Castlevania Aria of Sorrow or Chrono Trigger on that thing. Also, cracked PSP got accessed to PS1 classics even before Sony enabled it on PSP officially..

the good ol' days of Custom Firmware....now that i am thinking about it...i kinda want to get myself an older PSP off ebay and reload all these emulators for the ultimate portable experience.

That d-pad and analog disc still suck ass though

Polygonal_Sprite · Sep 26, 2017

I think the 3DS line proves there is still a market for dedicated handhelds. That console had one of the most disastrous first six months ever yet it will probably hit 75 million hardware / 350 million software units sold when all is said and done.

Once Nintendo can get the price below $199 there will absolutely be a dedicated handheld version of Switch. Just because Sony can't release and support a successful handheld console in this day & age doesn't mean it's not possible.

Valkerionseven · Sep 26, 2017

Love my vita to bits but sony sent that thing out to die. They stopped mentioning the device in what, a year after it launched? They made two great handhelds but I don't want them to pursue it again if they are going to have a similar attitude towards it as the last one.

Cerium · Sep 26, 2017

LiveFromKyoto said:
It was the people who failed the Vita, not the other way around.

AudioEppa · Sep 26, 2017

JusDoIt said:
Sony has their lane. They don't need to swerve into Nintendo's.

This.

Sony, Stay focused on PS4s remaining years and what comes next. No more handhelds, please.

family_guy · Sep 26, 2017

AudioEppa said:
This.

Sony, Stay focused on PS4s remaining years and what comes next. No more handhelds, please.

A single player in the market isn't good for anyone. Think if MS would have call it quits after the original Xbox. The arrogant PS3-era Sony would be far worse today. Or what if Sony never came out with the PS1? A Nintendo dominated market wouldn't have been good either given their policies. If Sony doesn't do another handheld console, I hope someone else decides to step in like Amazon or Apple just to prevent a monopoly.

RedAssedApe · Sep 26, 2017

I am selfishly happy he holds this opinion. No plans to ever buy a handheld moving forward

conpfreak · Sep 26, 2017

AmyS said:
I think PSP was the only dedicated handheld game system that sold in the multiple tens of millions of units that wasn't a Nintendo handheld.

I think people need to keep in mind that the PSP was seen and marketed as a multimedia device with a primary function of a gaming device. It was used as a MP3 player, video player, and overall a more valuable alternative to the iPod and Zune. It sold a lot of units based on that alone.

FingerBang · Sep 26, 2017

I don't know why people keep blaming Sony for Vita's failure. The console is probably the best handheld ever made. It's powerful, has enough buttons to allow programmers to bring any game to it and it's comfortable to hold. It was the time. People here talk like the 3DS is a huge success, and it is compared to the Vita, but it sold much much less than the DS and less than the PSP. The PS4 is on its way to surpass the 3DS as well (if it hasn't yet). Nintendo might have fucked up a little at first with the price, but it's definitely not its fault if the sales are that low compared to the DS.
The memory card thing was shitty, absolutely, but if you were to buy retail games a big MC wasn't necessary, you can't say it failed because of that.

Mobile happened. When I first came to Japan it used to be people playing with PSP and DS in trains, while now it's MOSTLY people playing on their smartphones.

People are not buying a Switch because it's a handheld, they're buying it because it's a hybrid console AND a Nintendo one.
The only handheld that would make sense for Sony now would be a PS4 Portable (a portable console that plays the same games), but it probably won't happen before next gen.

fvng · Sep 26, 2017

So what are the odds Sony makes a Vita successor that remedies the mistakes they made with the Vita? I will still buy a PS handheld as long as they don't fuck me over on the memory cards and I don't think that's too much to ask.

They should have also ported every unique and quirky Japan studio game to Vita (Rain, Puppeteer, Tokyo Jungle) I would have bought those again.

I still love my Vita but I'm sad that their blunders with it could have been avoided by being more considerate to gamers budgets

Lady Gaia · Sep 26, 2017

From where I stand, it looks absolutely true that phones and tablets walked away with the pure portable market. Hybrid is an interesting and smart play for Nintendo whose IPs and incredible ability to deliver polished gameplay dont thrive on cutting edge visuals. I dont think either Sony or Microsoft could have done half as well with the same strategy.

The strengths of the PlayStation and Xbox brands just dont translate effectively to the kind of horsepower and storage compromises required for a battery-powered handheld.

Cerium · Sep 26, 2017

fvng said:
So what are the odds Sony makes a Vita successor that remedies the mistakes they made with the Vita?

The article just gave you the answer.

Agent Icebeezy · Sep 26, 2017

I love my Vita as I did my PSP. Anywho, I was, for the first time, using the Vita as a controller while playing Persona 5 on my television and holy fuck the speed of remote play is incredible. I'd love a successor for the Vita though, GOAT bathroom console.

ramadden13 · Sep 26, 2017

family_guy said:
A single player in the market isn't good for anyone. Think if MS would have call it quits after the original Xbox. The arrogant PS3-era Sony would be far worse today. Or what if Sony never came out with the PS1? A Nintendo dominated market wouldn't have been good either given their policies. If Sony doesn't do another handheld console, I hope someone else decides to step in like Amazon or Apple just to prevent a monopoly.

I think this is right, but I also think that as long as Nintendo tries to get close to home console standards the market will still reap the benefits of competition. Even if (as most people believe) the Switch is most intriguing to (1) hand-held gamers (either as a sole device like in Japan or a secondary device like in the US) and (2) Nintendo fans, so long as Nintendo aspires for as close to modern home console-quality games as the system can provide, then they're at least going to have some motivation to progress. Especially because Nintendo is maybe the least afraid of the big three to iterate and refresh hardware within generations.

aadiboy · Sep 26, 2017

Lol at all the people who say PSP was a failure. You realize that makes the 3DS a failure too, because there's no way it's reaching PSP's numbers now.

fvng · Sep 26, 2017

Cerium said:
The article just gave you the answer.

I interpreted that as saying they don't have an answer to the switch, but the switch is a hybrid platform. A dedicated handheld isn't a direct competitor for switch because the switch is doing something completely different

AlexBasch · Sep 26, 2017

Maybe it's because they're not killing the Switch with +$120 memory cards for like 64GB. Assholes.

I love my Vita but I dread the day the memory card dies since they're non existent where I live. Assholes.

Cerium · Sep 26, 2017

fvng said:
I interpreted that as saying they don't have an answer to the switch, but the switch is a hybrid platform. A dedicated handheld isn't a direct competitor for switch because the switch is doing something completely different

Wait, you read those comments, and what you get out of it is that you think a dedicated Sony handheld is more likely than a hybrid?

Really?

cw_sasuke · Sep 26, 2017

aadiboy said:
Lol at all the people who say PSP was a failure. You realize that makes the 3DS a failure too, because there's no way it's reaching PSP's numbers now.

Life isn't this simple, context matters.

Regardless of this the PSP wasn't a fault. The Vita was though.

fvng · Sep 26, 2017

Cerium said:
Wait, you read those comments, and what you get out of it is that you think a dedicated Sony handheld is more likely than a hybrid?

Really?

Yes

Jimrpg · Sep 26, 2017

That's a pretty obvious 'no' to a Vita successor as I have seen from Sony.

The final nail in the coffin was the growth of mobile gaming. I remember back in 2012 when Vita came out, I myself was far more interested in the iPhone as a gaming platform than the Vita, even though I've swung back to the Vita in a huge way myself. I don't see the mainstream doing that though.

But I think there'll have to be some technological changes that have to happen before we see Sony venture down the handheld route again.

I think primarily for Sony, the handheld platform is a 'downgrade' from the console version. No matter how much more improved the handheld hardware is, if people buy one version of the game, its going to be the best looking one. Like the Playstation 4 competes with the Xbox One, the Vita is also competing with the Playstation too. Diluting the market and the player base in Sony's opinion isn't a good strategy for them. The handheld hardware has to get close enough to the console hardware for them to try again.

Sony still want to sell TVs, they still do I guess with the Playstation 4 Pro. The Vita goes against that. And the Vita TV does little to sell TVs.

The biggest disappointment in mobile gaming and not having a dedicated handheld is the lack of physical buttons and the third party support that Sony usually do great at.

Alexander DeLarge · Sep 26, 2017

Good. I don't want to see games like Gravity Rush and Uncharted Golden Abyss held back by the hardware ever again.

Nights Owl · Sep 26, 2017

I think this makes the most sense.

If Sony continues to dominate consoles next gen, and Nintendo is successful with their hybrid it really is kinda win-win for only console owners.

I'd argue PS4/Switch (And PS5/Switch in the future) is probably the best combo of the 3 consoles.

It kinda muddies the water with so many handhelds and consoles.

I look back on the 2 handhelds 2 consoles from Nintendo/Sony to be a huge strain on being able to play all the games I wanted. A Wii+DS+PS3+PSP was waaaaaaaaaay too much money.

dtm808 · Sep 26, 2017

family_guy said:
A single player in the market isn't good for anyone. Think if MS would have call it quits after the original Xbox. The arrogant PS3-era Sony would be far worse today. Or what if Sony never came out with the PS1? A Nintendo dominated market wouldn't have been good either given their policies. If Sony doesn't do another handheld console, I hope someone else decides to step in like Amazon or Apple just to prevent a monopoly.

The thing is, the handheld market has already shrunk considerably. Also Nintendo does not really have a monopoly on that market space because they are essentially competing with mobile devices. Sony just wouldn't have enough big software and/or developers to take on console,vr, and another handheld device at the same time. Nintendo struggles with 2 platforms.

legend166 · Sep 26, 2017

The PSP was successful in a vacuum, in that in sold 80 million units. But in 2004 if you told Sony it would get outsold almost 2:1 by the DS and essentially fail as a software platform outside of Japan they wouldn't have considered it a success. It seems funny in hindsight because Nintendo was then and still is the king of dedicated portable gaming devices, but the expectation was that Sony was going to come in with the almighty Playstation brand (which was at its absolute peak when the PSP launched, the PS2 have devoured everything in its path), and, to quote Kaz Hirai in 2005, "elevate portable entertainment out of the handheld gaming ghetto."

Instead, the DS crushed it and PSP played

In fact, if you read this in-hindsight-hilarious-GAF-thread you can see what the expectations were for the DS vs PSP battle: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=30686

Mass_Pincup · Sep 26, 2017

With the way they handled the Vita as well as their studio who worked on it might as well not bother.

Bend and the Gravity team (maybe not after GR2 bomb) are like the only thing left of that time.

The Vita was my favorite gaming platform, I even bought a 64GB memory card for it, but if Sony release another handheld I ain't gonna show up.

I don't see why anyone would really.

legend166 said:
The PSP was successful in a vacuum, in that in sold 80 million units. But in 2004 if you told Sony it would get outsold almost 2:1 by the DS and essentially fail as a software platform outside of Japan they wouldn't have considered it a success. It seems funny in hindsight because Nintendo was then and still is the king of dedicated portable gaming devices, but the expectation was that Sony was going to come in with the almighty Playstation brand (which was at its absolute peak when the PSP launched, the PS2 have devoured everything in its path), and, to quote Kaz Hirai in 2005, "elevate portable entertainment out of the handheld gaming ghetto."

Instead, the DS crushed it and PSP played

In fact, if you read this in-hindsight-hilarious-GAF-thread you can see what the expectations were for the DS vs PSP battle: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=30686

As of 2008 the PSP and the DS had basically the same software ratio in the US.

https://www.engadget.com/amp/2008/04/24/npds-latest-software-tie-ratios-for-consoles/

oti · Sep 26, 2017

Another Vita would be another failure.
A hybrid PS4/5 however could be interesting.

Huge Succeeded · Sep 26, 2017

family_guy said:
A single player in the market isn't good for anyone. Think if MS would have call it quits after the original Xbox. The arrogant PS3-era Sony would be far worse today. Or what if Sony never came out with the PS1? A Nintendo dominated market wouldn't have been good either given their policies. If Sony doesn't do another handheld console, I hope someone else decides to step in like Amazon or Apple just to prevent a monopoly.

This is like a post from the twilight zone lol

ArtHands · Sep 26, 2017

family_guy said:
A single player in the market isn't good for anyone. Think if MS would have call it quits after the original Xbox. The arrogant PS3-era Sony would be far worse today. Or what if Sony never came out with the PS1? A Nintendo dominated market wouldn't have been good either given their policies. If Sony doesn't do another handheld console, I hope someone else decides to step in like Amazon or Apple just to prevent a monopoly.

the portable gaming segment isnt missing anything without Playstations presence. So its fine

Novocaine · Sep 26, 2017

I wouldn't buy one anyway after their awful handling of the Vita.

brawly · Sep 26, 2017

Good. Put all your games on PS4/5.

GKSilKamina · Sep 26, 2017

LiveFromKyoto said:
Lumines: Electronic Symphony. Might well be the best puzzle game ever.

It was the people who failed the Vita, not the other way around.

I bought two Vitas. I did my part!

Jon Carter · Sep 26, 2017

MrRemyJe said:
Wait...what? When?

I can tell you didn't look good because you posted back here way too fast. It took me a good few minutes to find the games for your list, but to each his own. You have a narrative in your mind you believe to be right. I can see there is no convincing you otherwise. I'll sit here with my imaginary Sony Vita games that never came out after Killzone M and enjoy them. I don't want us to kill this thread even more so if you want to discuss it further just pm me. I'm out.

You can't accuse him of moving goal posts and declare yourself right when you're so clearly wrong and then just go "I'm out." He said, "big budget Vita games." He's right, Sony hasn't made any after Killzone, unless we're really stretching the definition to make Freedom Wars fit, but even then, that game started development in March 2011, eight months before the system's initial launch. They didn't greenlight anything big after the system's launch. How is that not giving up? The only way they could have given up on it any quicker is if they had decided to cancel Killzone and Freedom Wars.

Drencrom · Sep 26, 2017

Good, I rather not have shittier game experiences just for the portability factor.

Atheerios · Sep 26, 2017

To be fair we all know a pure handheld console in 2017 would fail.

Sony knows that.

Nintendo also knows that. That's why they made the Switch a home console first.

Aostia · Sep 26, 2017

I agree
Clearly Sony fans have limited interest in a portable device

Robert at Zeboyd Games · Sep 26, 2017

Mass_Pincup said:
Bend and the Gravity team (maybe not after GR2 bomb) are like the only thing left of that time.

I don't know about worldwide, but Gravity Rush 2 took the #1 slot in Japan when it launched and sold over 100k in Japan before it dropped from the chart. By Japanese retail standards those are decent numbers - hardly something that you'd close a studio over (especially one headed by the creator of Silent Hill).

odhiex · Sep 26, 2017

Once they see the opportunity, I am sure Sony will not hesitate to jump in.

Robert at Zeboyd Games · Sep 26, 2017

Jon Carter said:
You can't accuse him of moving goal posts and declare yourself right when you're so clearly wrong and then just go "I'm out." He said, "big budget Vita games." He's right, Sony hasn't made any after Killzone, unless we're really stretching the definition to make Freedom Wars fit, but even then, that game started development in March 2011, eight months before the system's initial launch. They didn't greenlight anything big after the system's launch. How is that not giving up? The only way they could have given up on it any quicker is if they had decided to cancel Killzone and Freedom Wars.

A big budget AAA Vita game that was greenlit after Killzone would most likely not be ready for release until 2016 at the earliest. Needless to say given Vita sales from launch to 2013, spending a bunch of money for a 2016 Vita game doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

Looking at a list of Sony published Vita games by year is enlightening. The first number is retail releases, the second is digital-only ones.

2012 - 13/21
2013 - 9/14
2014 - 11/12
2015 - 4/7

From the look of things, I'd say most of these games either started in development before or near the Vita's launch or were cheap & easy ports that they felt would have a decent return despite the obviously lower install base. However, by the same account, Sony obviously intended to fully support the Vita if you look at what they did release in those first 3 years - there were Vita exclusive installments in big series like Uncharted & LBP, all-new games from respected studios like Gravity Rush & Tearaway, some solid attempts to steal Monster Hunter's audience with Freedom Wars & Soul Sacrifice, as well as some multiplatform releases. If the Vita hadn't sold so much worse than the PSP, there's no reason to think that Sony's support of the system wouldn't have continued beyond those first few years.

MatrixMan.EXE · Sep 26, 2017

10k said:
Just because you failed at launching two handheld devices doesn't mean you need to start blaming the audience now. Don't get salty.

The PSP sold over 80m units, more than the 3DS will likely sell in it's life time. But yes, continue spinning this narrative I keep seeing on GAF that PSP was a failure.

Also I agree with this. I see no need for them to compete in the portable space with a hybrid device. We have yet to see how much actual market potential the Switch has, and I'd rather Sony stick to what they're good at. Making relatively powerful home consoles and memorable experiences for those consoles. Do what they do best and let Nintendo do what Nintendo do best.

lupinko · Sep 26, 2017

He's right, and Nintendo is a niche by themselves. Only Nintendo can make it work due to their first party library and expertise and experience in the handheld space.

AndyMoogle · Sep 26, 2017

He's completely right. The only way a handheld can work is if it's a hybrid or if it's a handheld that gets 100% attention from the platform maker. Considering the time, effort and money that needs to be poured into games these days, it's impossible to have two platforms at once.

CaviarMeths · Sep 26, 2017

I don't even know if it's fair to say they tried with the Vita. Outside of Japan Studio, did they ever put any A-list talent on it? Sure, the big IPs were there, but they were pretty much all spin-offs either outsourced or made by C-list teams. They never trusted the device enough to put an actual system seller on it. No one was buying a Vita to play Uncharted: Golden Abyss when Uncharted 3 just released on PS3.

Emitan · Sep 26, 2017

maybe their handhelds would do better if they put more than a token effort into them

always third string teams making spinoffs of their franchises

they dont treat handhelds as a legit platform

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