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Charlottesville alt-right white nationalist torch rally

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M

Mammoth Jones

Member
Snarky(HEART) said:
I love all the people that keep chiming in with "Violence is not the answer! I don't have any solutions to offer but I need you to know that I know violence isn't the answer!"
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They're full of shit. I already gave them their solution: Treat the Klan and Nazis like any other terrorist organization. Done. Problem solved.

This is only hard because some people for some reason don't WANT to concede they are terrorist organizations.
 
L

Lyon N. Laap

Member
Not sure why I ever bother scanning r/The Donald. I should stop hoping to see breaks in the cognitive dissonance. A fair few seem convinced that there is a good chance everything that happened today is part of some major conspiracy by George Soros. That the chaos was too coincidental and happened too quickly.

Maybe it's just things go terribly wrong when Nazi's go on the march.
 
E

excelsiorlef

Member
Prodigal Son said:
Racism doesn't go away when its underground. Its still propagated easily even with arbitrary restrictions of expression. The first amendment is important. Slander, libel and threats of violence. No exceptions.
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Right which is why Canada and Germany have leaders who can't condemn literal nazi terrorism and the USA is a beacon of hope right now...


Oh wait....

Like how can you take a grand stand against hate speech laws of other countries on a day like this?
 
N

NobleXenon

Member
I see that the College Republicans Group within the University of Nevada Reno is scrubbing their socials with Peter Cvjetanovic in them. There's even a picture of him with Dean Heller!
 
F

Frozenprince

Banned
Amibguous Cad said:
Absolutely nothing in that quote disagrees with nonviolence.

Because King never advocated violence.

There were not rifles at Selma, at least none wielded by the protesters. In Montgomery, King never bombed the buses, or city hall. He never once wavered from his commitment to nonviolence, and that is why he was as successful as he was.

White America has diluted King into an anodyne Mr. Rodgers "let's all get along," figure, but the left's attempt to portray him as a latter day Che Guevera is hardly more historical.
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Urban riots must now be recognized as durable social phenomena. They may be deplored, but they are there and should be understood. Urban riots are a special form of violence. They are not insurrections. The rioters are not seeking to seize territory or to attain control of institutions. They are mainly intended to shock the white community. They are a distorted form of social protest. The looting which is their principal feature serves many functions. It enables the most enraged and deprived Negro to take hold of consumer goods with the ease the white man does by using his purse. Often the Negro does not even want what he takes; he wants the experience of taking. But most of all, alienated from society and knowing that this society cherishes property above people, he is shocking it by abusing property rights. There are thus elements of emotional catharsis in the violent act. This may explain why most cities in which riots have occurred have not had a repetition, even though the causative conditions remain. It is also noteworthy that the amount of physical harm done to white people other than police is infinitesimal and in Detroit whites and Negroes looted in unity.

A profound judgment of today’s riots was expressed by Victor Hugo a century ago. He said, ‘If a soul is left in the darkness, sins will be committed. The guilty one is not he who commits the sin, but he who causes the darkness.’

The policymakers of the white society have caused the darkness; they create discrimination; they structured slums; and they perpetuate unemployment, ignorance and poverty. It is incontestable and deplorable that Negroes have committed crimes; but they are derivative crimes. They are born of the greater crimes of the white society. When we ask Negroes to abide by the law, let us also demand that the white man abide by law in the ghettos. Day-in and day-out he violates welfare laws to deprive the poor of their meager allotments; he flagrantly violates building codes and regulations; his police make a mockery of law; and he violates laws on equal employment and education and the provisions for civic services. The slums are the handiwork of a vicious system of the white society; Negroes live in them but do not make them any more than a prisoner makes a prison. Let us say boldly that if the violations of law by the white man in the slums over the years were calculated and compared with the law-breaking of a few days of riots, the hardened criminal would be the white man. These are often difficult things to say but I have come to see more and more that it is necessary to utter the truth in order to deal with the great problems that we face in our society.
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Dr. King never once condemned violent disobedience as wrong. He simply fought a different way, but Malcom X and the others of his ilk were no less important nor more or less wrong than Dr. King and his supporters.

Highly recommended reading:

https://rowman.com/isbn/0739128868
 
G

Grug

Member
D i Z said:
You need to explain the first two bolded before we start.
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I genuinely am not sure how I can make it any clearer? What is confusing you?

I simply said (and I was merely playing devils advocate) that a reticence to use violence does not equate to condoning Nazism and that conflating the two is unfair and politically counter-productive. Seems self-explanatory to me.
 
Amibguous Cad

Amibguous Cad

Member
Snarky(HEART) said:
I love all the people that keep chiming in with "Violence is not the answer! I don't have any solutions to offer but I need you to know that I know violence isn't the answer!"
Click to expand...

And I love all the people chiming in with "Violence is the answer! I'm incapable of explaining what strategic or tactical goals random acts of violence have in a coordinated anti-fascist movement, but I definitely want to tell you that punching Nazis is rad!"
 
M

Michael F. Assbender

Banned
2017_08_13_00_20_29.jpg

2017_08_13_00_20_20.jpg
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.
 
T

TetraGenesis

Member
prepaidtacosalad said:
Fuck. I was one of them weak ass liberals saying shit wasn't that bad, calling people Nazis was blowing shit out of proportion. Fuck me, fuck people like me that have sat to the side trying to be the superior liberal that wants to fight with old fashioned democracy. This is fucking scary.
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Thank you for waking up and joining us. In all seriousness.
 
F

Frozenprince

Banned
Amibguous Cad said:
And I love all the people chiming in with "Violence is the answer! I'm incapable of explaining what strategic or tactical goals random acts of violence have in a coordinated anti-fascist movement, but I definitely want to tell you that punching Nazis is rad!"
Click to expand...

Violent civil disobedience and retribution is as old as the theory of the state itself.
 
P

Prodigal Son

Member
excelsiorlef said:
Right which is why Canada and Germany have leaders who can't condemn literal nazi terrorism and the USA is a beacon of hope right now...


Oh wait....

Like how can you take a grand stand against hate speech laws of other countries on a day like this?
Click to expand...

????

I dont understand how you're connecting the first amendment with Donald Trump not wanting to shrink his base? So many other republican politicians under the same constitution spoke out against this.

I'll take a 'grand stand' against any and all social authoritarianism because it isn't what this country is supposed to be about. You dont compromise liberty to address problems. That's when the terrorists win. You also can't talk to people about their awful opinions if they're not allowed to say their awful opinions. We're already in a horribly anti-discussion culture here in the US. We're not about to worsen that with the easy way out.
 
M

Mammoth Jones

Member
Amibguous Cad said:
And I love all the people chiming in with "Violence is the answer! I'm incapable of explaining what strategic or tactical goals random acts of violence have in a coordinated anti-fascist movement, but I definitely want to tell you that punching Nazis is rad!"
Click to expand...

I already explained exactly what type of LEGAL state-sanctioned violence is appropriate to deal with the KKK and NeoNazi's. And it may involve law enforcement punching a Nazi or Klan member in the face.

All I know is I'm not shedding any tears over a bloody nosed ISIS member. Nor these pieces of shits.
 
V

Vicetrailia

Member
Amibguous Cad said:
And I love all the people chiming in with "Violence is the answer! I'm incapable of explaining what strategic or tactical goals random acts of violence have in a coordinated anti-fascist movement, but I definitely want to tell you that punching Nazis is rad!"
Click to expand...

Granted we don't have the government on our side, they're on the other side, but nazi's are a massive danger. We got enough dangers already, but those with skin in the game have to shoulder more burden and do all of the leg work. You just get to watch and finger wag.
 
D

D i Z

Member
Grug said:
I genuinely am not sure how I can make it any clearer? What is confusing you?

I simply said (and I was merely playing devils advocate[/B]) that a reticence to use violence does not equate to condoning Nazism and that conflating the two is unfair and politically counter-productive. Seems self-explanatory to me.
Click to expand...


So you ain't about shit. Got it. You're not actually talking about anything of relevance. You're just hitting keys on your keyboard.
 
S

sphagnum

Banned
prepaidtacosalad said:
Fuck. I was one of them weak ass liberals saying shit wasn't that bad, calling people Nazis was blowing shit out of proportion. Fuck me, fuck people like me that have sat to the side trying to be the superior liberal that wants to fight with old fashioned democracy. This is fucking scary.
Click to expand...

Self criticism is a good thing, now put it into action.
 
B

broncobuster

Banned
Snarky(HEART) said:
I love all the people that keep chiming in with "Violence is not the answer! I don't have any solutions to offer but I need you to know that I know violence isn't the answer!"
Click to expand...

Even taking those posts in good faith (and not the usual obfuscation), it's like, do you all know what Nazi and white supremacists are about? Wasn't this taught at school?

They're treating it like Coke vs Pepsi.
 
H

half a moon

Banned
theignoramus said:
The Nazis at this rally came prepared for war. Dressed for it. Armed themselves for it. They came to spill blood. And they executed that plan. I applaud those on the ground who went out to meet these Nazis in an arena the White terrorists pretty much self designated as a combat zone.
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Well theres definitly a point where this needs to be officially considered radical domestic terrorism. No armed isis ralleys in america would be tolerated. I wouldn't think
 
B

Bronx-Man

Banned
Seeing these nazis fucks use the whole "freedom of speech, we need to be peaceful and debate ideas" is souring me in seeing those arguments used here, not gonna lie.
 
E

Elegant Weapon

Member
texhnolyze said:
What's happening in the US?

I imagine ISIS laughing their asses right now. America is tearing itself apart from the inside.
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The fucked up honest truth is, this isn't an uncommon event in the USA's history. We just haven't seen it as much in the last 60 years. People Trump age or older like my grandma, this shit is as American to them as baseball. America has always been this way.

Amibguous Cad said:
Absolutely nothing in that quote disagrees with nonviolence.

Because King never advocated violence.

There were not rifles at Selma, at least none wielded by the protesters. In Montgomery, King never bombed the buses, or city hall. He never once wavered from his commitment to nonviolence, and that is why he was as successful as he was.

White America has diluted King into an anodyne Mr. Rodgers "let's all get along," figure, but the left's attempt to portray him as a latter day Che Guevera is hardly more historical.
Click to expand...

You and the other moderates are potentially worse than the nazis with your quick judgments on how the oppressed should respond to violent oppressors. Yeah, tell me more about MLK while completely missing the point. Tone deaf as fuck
 
T

theignoramus

Member
Amibguous Cad said:
And I love all the people chiming in with "Violence is the answer! I'm incapable of explaining what strategic or tactical goals random acts of violence have in a coordinated anti-fascist movement, but I definitely want to tell you that punching Nazis is rad!"
Click to expand...
Did you seriously come in here to tone police not even 24 hours after Nazis beat people in the streets amd plowed a vehicle into a crowd at high speed? Now isn't the time for your self righteous virtue signalling.
 
P

Prodigal Son

Member
Bronx-Man said:
Seeing these nazis fucks use the whole "freedom of speech, we need to be peaceful and debate ideas" is souring me in seeing those arguments used here, not gonna lie.
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lets just punch them all until they phase into the nazi shadow realm

perpetual race war, fellas. blood in the streets. woo!
 
H

Hierophant

Banned
Just know that people sitting on the fence will have no place in history other than a footnote that stated their cowardice in the face of an obvious evil.
 
D

Dre3001

Member
cameron said:
This?

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=246018042&postcount=1157

http://www.leonyin.org/images/house_full.gif
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The scariest part of the chart and pictures from today is that it seemed the majority of racists marching at the rally were young guys in what seemed like their 20s-30s.

I have often heard many publications try to paint the older generation as holding a majority of these ignorant views but that seems to be far from the case.

How are these views not dying out with a new generation that is sending more individuals to college than ever before and an ever increasing diverse population?
 
I

Ishan

Junior Member
Mammoth Jones said:
They're full of shit. I already gave them their solution: Treat the Klan and Nazis like any other terrorist organization. Done. Problem solved.

This is only hard because some people for some reason don't WANT to concede they are terrorist organizations.
Click to expand...

I'll say clearly this is terrorism because this is . I also go with violence is not the answer . I'm Indian and we got independence thru non violence so yeah it's completely possible to be against violence while being all for treating terrorism as terrorism
 
P

PepsimanVsJoe

Member
Dre3001 said:
The scariest part of the chart and pictures from today is that it seemed the majority of racists marching at the rally were young guys in what seemed like their 20s-30s.

I have often heard many publications try to paint the older generation as holding a majority of these ignorant views but that seems to be far from the case.

How are these views not dying out with a new generation that is sending more individuals to college than ever before and an ever increasing diverse population?
Click to expand...

The older generation passed their fucked views to their children.
 
E

excelsiorlef

Member
Grug said:
What is anyone's "solution" at this stage?

Lots of abstract talk about violence which provides plenty of emotional catharsis to myself as it does everyone else, but it's not exactly a well mapped out strategy is it?

But if we are genuinely discussing other short-medium term goals, surely taking back the house in 2018 has to be first on the list right?
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Treat them like you'd treat ISIS
 
A

Anticol

Banned
Amibguous Cad said:
And I love all the people chiming in with "Violence is the answer! I'm incapable of explaining what strategic or tactical goals random acts of violence have in a coordinated anti-fascist movement, but I definitely want to tell you that punching Nazis is rad!"
Click to expand...

Punching them is not the answer, they deserve way way way worse things.
 
E

Elegant Weapon

Member
Prodigal Son said:
lets just punch them all until they phase into the nazi shadow realm

perpetual race war, fellas. blood in the streets. woo!
Click to expand...

Let me ask, are you on nazi forums trying to reasonably talk things out with them are do you just get off telling the targets of nazi violence and rhetoric how to react?
 
K

King Tubby

Member
Dre3001 said:
The scariest part of the chart and pictures from today is that it seemed the majority of racists marching at the rally were young guys in what seemed like their 20s-30s.

I have often heard many publications try to paint the older generation as holding a majority of these ignorant views but that seems to be far from the case.

How are these views not dying out with a new generation that is sending more individuals to college than ever before and an ever increasing diverse population?
Click to expand...

Extremist groups always recruit from desperate, sexually frustrated young men with no sense of direction and a desire to be important. This is true whether you're looking at ISIS, cartels, or neo-Nazis.
 
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