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Rumour: Junction Point Closed Down (Epic Mickey Games, Warren Spector's Studio)

A

Aquamarine

Member
Stumpokapow said:
without the 3ds version, double that in the us/npd alone
Click to expand...

All right! Thanks! I'm going to go ahead and assume that it sold 200k in Europe / Australia since late November. That would put sales at 740k. And since EM seems to be front-loaded, I can't see it selling much more than that.


So:

Epic Mickey 2 had a $20-$30 million budget (estimate)

Disney expected 2 million in sales ($50 million in revenue)

But it only got 740,000 in worldwide sales ($18.5 million in revenue) (estimate)

...

Unlike the first game, Epic Mickey 2 was a net LOSS for Disney and a huge waste of money.

And depending on how large the final budget was when you factor in marketing, the loss could potentially be catastrophic when the dust settles ($8-$10 million maximum loss that Disney will have to write off).

Studios get shattered for not being able to make up their development budgets. Publishers have no patience for studios that bring them major financial losses. Therefore...

RIP Junction Point
 
N

NoirVisage

Banned
Andrew. said:
They did. Clearly.
Click to expand...


at first i was:
1259985644398.jpg


then i was all:

tumblr_ma7l7qsgZ41rrhz69.gif
 
R

Ridley327

Member
Zia said:
Would be nice to see Spector going to Valve or Arkane. But, Junction Point is/was a tragedy, and his bullheadedness over serious issues the first game had makes me doubtful he can keep his ego in check to fill a worker bee role at someplace like Valve.

Guess we'll see.
Click to expand...

A Warren Spector and Harvey Smith reunion at Arkane would be something. A good something, I hope, like Deus Ex, and not a bad something like, well, you know.
 
M

Mpl90

Two copies sold? That's not a bomb guys, stop trolling!!!
SlipperySlope said:
Interesting. Thanks for the info. I know it's not JP, but think you could give us an estimate of the 3DS version's sales?
Click to expand...

Dalthien said that EM2 first two months are around half what EM did in its first month (debut month), 3DS version included (3DS SKU is the second best selling one when compared to the others, only behind the Wii SKU sales wise). EM in its debut month sold 1.320.000 units.
 
T

tim.mbp

Member
Ninja Scooter said:
Yeah but none of that matters if you can't produce a good game, and I haven't seen anything to lead me to believe that they would have produced a good, memorable Mickey game. Take Spector's name out of the equation and nobody would have ever cared about the games as little as they did, and they would have been brushed aside as typical license character cash-ins.
Click to expand...

I thought the first game was good and memorable, haven't played the second. Particularly reintroducing Oswald and the boss battles.

I don't know what impact Spector's name had on sales. Certainly families and younger audiences don't care as much as older gamers who remember his past titles.
 
P

Pikma

Banned
Ninja Scooter said:
so then where would they have gone? Wii was pretty much dead, Wiii U was just coming out and wouldn't have a big enough install base, and making it exclusive to PS3 or 360 really limits their market. You can release games on all platforms and still have them be good and sell really, really well. Developers and publishers do it all the time. I doubt that was EM2's problem. The problem was that it just wasn't very good.
Click to expand...

They could have focused on PS3/360 or even just Wii, Just Dance seems to be doing great, even better than on the other consoles, there was no need to try to put their hands in so many pies if they couldn't even have one. And yeah, I know the game was bad, but what if they focused in just one version? I bet it could probably be at least less worse. Also, ports costs money after all.
 
N

Ninja Scooter

Member
Pikma said:
They could have focused on PS3/360 or even just Wii, Just Dance seems to be doing great, even better than on the other consoles, there was no need to try to put their hands in so many pies if they couldn't even have one. And yeah, I know the game was bad, but what if they focused in just one version? I bet it could probably be at least less worse. Also, ports costs money after all.
Click to expand...

Epic Mickey probably cost a hell of a lot more to create than Just Dance. They needed to create multiple versions to maximize sells potential. And again, plenty of studios, both big and small, create multiplatform games without having much of a problem. With the staff and resources JP had, that's a weak excuse.
 
F

FrenchToastDisciple

Member
Well, I hope the talent there finds places to work where their abilities are better able to be transformed into good games. This is of course most true of Spector, who for a stretch of time from 1990 to 2000 had his hands in more gaming greatness than arguably anyone in the entire world (alright Miyamoto probably has him beat, but I always assumed Spector was more hands on during that time). Maybe he can find a way to work on a project that allows him to get back to those classic PC gaming roots. Lord knows we need some deus ex in a lot of the shallow, hollow games we play today.
 
E

enzo_gt

tagged by Blackace
Kinda saw this coming after what Epic Mickey 2 turned out to be, how it had like zero marketing and how stupid the numbers of people working on it were that Spector was quoting.

Hope devs all land on their feet somewhere.
 
1

18-Volt

Member
At this point, we can assume that Disney Interactive is basicly dead, right? They said themselves that they won't make another movie tie-in game after the release of Infinity. Even Phineas & Ferb games are made by Majesco now.
 
P

Pikma

Banned
Ninja Scooter said:
Epic Mickey probably cost a hell of a lot more to create than Just Dance. They needed to create multiple versions to maximize sells potential. And again, plenty of studios, both big and small, create multiplatform games without having much of a problem. With the staff and resources JP had, that's a weak excuse.
Click to expand...

I know it's not a rule, and it wasn't the only reason, that's for sure, but the same happened to the De Blob franchise, the first game got very close to the 1M mark, but the 2nd one, which was also turned into a multiplatform game, bombed, it performed horribly. It's the exact same situation as this one, and again, while it's not a rule or the only reason, I think both are related and it's not a coincidence at all.
 
N

Ninja Scooter

Member
Pikma said:
I know it's not a rule, and it wasn't the only reason, that's for sure, but the same happened to the De Blob franchise, the first game got very close to the 1M mark, but the 2nd one, which was also turned into a multiplatform game, bombed, it performed horribly. It's the exact same situation as this one, and again, while it's not a rule or the only reason, I think both are related and it's not a coincidence at all.
Click to expand...

Don't know about DeBlob 2, but for EM2, I'm sure the awful WoM and reviews probably had as much to do with it's sales. I have a hard time believing a team that huge would become "distracted" because they had to make a multiplatform game. I think they just weren't very good at making platformers. Epic Mickey 1 was single platform and it didn't exactly light the world on fire from a critical standpoint.
 
J

JMizzlin

Member
Doesn't surprise me. The release of EM2 was so poorly handled.
I couldn't find a single copy of it on Disney property; instead the shelves were lined with EM1 on Wii and Cars 2.
 
H

Hero of Legend

Member
18-Volt said:
At this point, we can assume that Disney Interactive is basicly dead, right? They said themselves that they won't make another movie tie-in game after the release of Infinity. Even Phineas & Ferb games are made by Majesco now.
Click to expand...

Yeah, Disney just announced that in-house they'll now focus on Infinity, so it seems like other games will be farmed out like Phineas & Ferb to Majesco.

Don't know if they'll top Across the 2nd Dimension as that was by High Impact Games (former Insomniac folks). I don't expect much.

OH, Disney was confirmed to be doing the Iron Man 3 game, I assume that's still on course, but after that, nada. Who will make it?
 
T

TheSeks

Blinded by the luminous glory that is David Bowie's physical manifestation.
MrHicks said:
that concept art was the only reason people cared for it
once screenshots came out people went WTF
Click to expand...

Yep, pretty much. Warren only has himself to blame for the bait and switch he did with those concept art pieces.
 
Zoe

Zoe

Member
Jorok Goldblade said:
BioWare Austin
Vigil
now Junction Point ...
Click to expand...

Zynga too. Though I'm not sure how big they were. Both them and Vigil were on the edge of town (roughly same area), so I feel bad for anyone who moved out for them.


Jorok Goldblade said:
Not a good year to be a developer in Austin.
Click to expand...
It's a great year to be a developer in Austin. It's a bad year to be in the video games industry.

Edit: well, it might be good to be working for AMD. Probably depends on the year end :lol
 
F

Father_Brain

Banned
Hero of Legend said:
OH, Disney was confirmed to be doing the Iron Man 3 game, I assume that's still on course, but after that, nada. Who will make it?
Click to expand...

If it were a console game, it'd almost certainly have been announced by this point, given the film's release date. Wouldn't bet on it.

I wonder what will happen to 1313, as well. I suspect Disney will sell it off to another publisher.
 
M

MrT-Tar

Member
I feel really sorry for the people losing their jobs, however many of us saw this coming. I played a few hours of the first Epic Mickey and thought it was a good, but not great, game. One has to wonder whether Disney thought going multiplatform would increase sales to what they would consider an acceptable level.


Also, does anyone have a link the Epic Mickey thread I keep on hearing about? I've never actually looked at it, and I've heard it was a bloodbath.
 
P

PixyJunket

Member
Warren helped me become a huge Oswald fanatic (I'm even running a panel on the character's history at an Austin convention in two weeks).

So I pour my forty out to him and his studio.
 
H

Hot Coldman

Banned
sp3000 said:
Invisible War was a product of consolization and rushed development more than anything else.

Lot of good ideas in it still. Storyline and choice was very solid.
Click to expand...

Well the Human Revolution team are still fine without him. They made Deus Ex their own thing.
 
D

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
I hate to see it happen but they had a second chance and they blew it.

Odd that Harvey Smith's next endeavor turned out so much better than Warren's.
 
E

Effect

Member
Still don't understand why they pushed for Epic Mickey 2 to be a multiplatform game after Epic Mickey 1 did so well on the Wii (million plus seller) as an exclusive. They simply could have used the same engine and assets, fixed issues, and released Epic Mickey 2 for just the Wii and made a nice bit of profit while keeping cost down.
 
M

MattKeil

BIGTIME TV MOGUL #2
Father_Brain said:
If it were a console game, it'd almost certainly have been announced by this point, given the film's release date. Wouldn't bet on it.

I wonder what will happen to 1313, as well. I suspect Disney will sell it off to another publisher.
Click to expand...

Unlikely, considering exploiting the Star Wars brand more effectively in videogames was one of the things specifically mentioned during the acquisition.

Pikma said:
They could have focused on PS3/360 or even just Wii, Just Dance seems to be doing great, even better than on the other consoles, there was no need to try to put their hands in so many pies if they couldn't even have one. And yeah, I know the game was bad, but what if they focused in just one version? I bet it could probably be at least less worse. Also, ports costs money after all.
Click to expand...

I don't understand the "focus on one version" thing as a solution. If this were in any way accurate, why didn't the Wii version of the game sell through the roof?

The Just Dance comparison makes even less sense. Yes, it's a best seller on the Wii, but it's a completely different beast with a completely different audience. It's like wondering why Major League Baseball has attendance woes while NFL games pack them in at the same stadium.
 
B

Baron_Calamity

Member
Man, if they would have closed them down before Epic Mickey we could have been spared 2 bad games. I don't want anyone to lose their job. On the other hand, seeing millions go towards bad games pushing aging IP that few want in a game is equally depressing.
 
F

Father_Brain

Banned
MattKeil said:
Unlikely, considering exploiting the Star Wars brand more effectively in videogames was one of the things specifically mentioned during the acquisition.
Click to expand...

Only in the types of video games that Disney is actually interested in making, i.e. decidedly not AAA console releases.

Disney has said little about games — but it hasn’t said nothing. On a conference call with investors on Tuesday, CEO Bob Iger said that the company’s plans for Star Wars gaming were likely to “focus more on social and mobile than we are on console.”

“We’ll look opportunistically at console, most likely in licensing rather than publishing,” Iger said, but qualified this by adding that in Disney’s view, Star Wars characters lend themselves better to “the other platforms.”
Click to expand...
 
T

TheUnknownForce

Member
So what would that be for 2013 company closures one month in?

Gas Powered Games (Supreme Commander) - all-in on KS...probably to fail D:
Vigil Games (Darksiders)
Junction Point (Epic Mickey) - Rumor
Mitchell Corporation (Puzzloop/Magnetica) - From source near developer?
Funcom Montreal (Age of Conan?)
Funcom Beijing (The Secret World)
Zynga Boston (Indiana Jones Adventure World)
Zynga Japan

Am I missing any? D:

OT: Epic Mickey 1 was choppy and terribly linear for an adventure game of its nature. It was front-loaded saleswise and then Disney wanted to push it to HD platforms and therefore rushed EM2 out while it still could. This result was seen a mile away, unfortunately.
 
H

HK-47

Oh, bitch bitch bitch.
Hero of Legend said:
Well Retro's had some of the best consistent track record that I know of, I mean even with four games, all have been critically acclaimed, their output is low, but the wait is always worth it. Plus they're the closest to carrying on Rare's legacy at Nintendo, I mean Rare was unstoppable in their prime.
Click to expand...

Retro and Nintendo in general dont really make the kind of games that made Warren famous.
 
S

Stumpokapow

listen to the mad man
Effect said:
Still don't understand why they pushed for Epic Mickey 2 to be a multiplatform game after Epic Mickey 1 did so well on the Wii (million plus seller) as an exclusive. They simply could have used the same engine and assets, fixed issues, and released Epic Mickey 2 for just the Wii and made a nice bit of profit while keeping cost down.
Click to expand...

Junction Point only worked on the Wii version. Their time and the game design were not impacted by the ports. Do you think the marginal costs of paying the external teams to do the PS360/Wii U ports were not worth it?
 
shira

shira

Member
Ahh, so sad watching epic mickey 1 group testing and seeing everyday joe wondering why Mickey was changed.

Can't make that dark mickey game for profit.
 
A

Aaron

Member
dark10x said:
I hate to see it happen but they had a second chance and they blew it.

Odd that Harvey Smith's next endeavor turned out so much better than Warren's.
Click to expand...
That had more to do with Arkane Studios than anything else Dishonored is a clear evolution of Dark Messiah. He probably focused on the half-baked story bits and let Arkane do the heavy lifting.

Also, I thought Warren Spector said he was done with games after EM2. I don't see him kickstarting or anything else from here on.
 
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