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LttP: Ocean Waves. What in the Ghibli-tsundere hell was this.

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Z

ZombiePlatypus

Member
Saw this last night. Lemme start off by saying that the movie looks beautiful. It's very, simple and minimal looking. But has that hand-drawn 90's anime aesthetic. Even the concept art with the markers is great.

QVUw7W3.jpg

EodHmra.jpg

qJavhiA.jpg

9p8iMLh.gif

0w89AH1.jpg
Click to expand...

We watched the remaster on bluray, and some of the scenes really look like they have a visible difference between the background and the celluloid animation sheets. And I mean this in the best way. Visually it just looks so endearing.

BUT, I've never been so confused by the intent of a movie. For those that haven't seen it, this is about three school-kids: Two boys who are friends and a girl. There's a love triangle, but [SPOILERS!] it's not really amped up or a thing that goes anywhere. It's more about the dynamics and relationship with one of the guys and the girl. The other dude is more background material. This would be all well and fine. However, the movie goes out of its way to make sure all three characters are completely unlikable.

The girl is shown blatantly and over and over to be selfish, inconsiderate, mean, spoiled, bratty, and immature. And it's not even played up in a hammy manner like in fan-service-y tsundere anime. She's just a bad person. She keeps getting into sticky situations cause of her crap decisions, and repeatedly calls on the one guy to help her out of it. Usually at his expense in some manner. And...he keeps obliging and being complicit. (While staying cemented in the friend-zone mind you.) As she keeps being awful, both dudes start talking about how much they, uh, love her for whatever reason, and keep enabling her.

I kept waiting for some sort of character growth to occur. But it literally doesn't happen. They just all stay in that state. Then the movie fast-forwards ten years, and during their reunion, the one dude reminisces about her. At this point, the movie literally shows all the times she was awful and shitty towards him while endearing music is playing and he's swooning. After which he hilariously proclaims that he loves her and wants to see her. Then they run into each-other and that's it.

It's like they told the first half of a story and then just figured you'd imagine the other half? We're just suppose to assume they all grew as people?

I watched a behind the scenes featurette trying to get an idea of what they were trying to convey with the film. Apparently this was a project done by, at the time, the more novice , younger staff at Ghibli to get their feet wet. (Frankly Ghibli should have been doing stuff like this continuously to prep the next generation.) However, they keep making note about how they had total creative freedom and no supervision. That's the only explanation I can piece together as to why this movie turned out the way it did.
And why Ghibli apparently gave up on the next generation to carry their torch afterwards.
 
H

hosannainexcelsis

Member
If you're mainly upset about the story, it's worth pointing out that this was based on a novel, although I don't know how faithful to the original it was.
 
F

Firemind

Member
Rikako had a character arc bruv.
When she realizes her ex just kept talking about himself and when she slapped the shit out of the main guy.
 
T

The Last Wizard

Member
You catch the porco rosso Easter egg/cameo?

Saw it a few years ago and liked it, wish it was easier to see in America as I'd like to rewatch it.
 
P

Perd Hapley

Member
Yeah, this and Earthsea are the only Ghibli movies I would call genuinely bad. This movie just has no substance at all. What you see is what you get. Ghibli's other slice-of-life movies (Only Yesterday, Whisper of the Heart) being some of their best probably hurts it too. Comparing it those two really doesn't do it any favors.

I also think it's the worst looking Ghibli movie, although it's not like it's ugly - it just clearly didn't have the budget their bigger productions did. Everything about this movie just screams "made for tv" to me, which, to be fair, it was.
 
R

Ridley327

Member
The Last Wizard said:
You catch the porco rosso Easter egg/cameo?

Saw it a few years ago and liked it, wish it was easier to see in America as I'd like to rewatch it.
Click to expand...

It just came out on Blu-ray a week or so ago. I want to say that My Neighbors the Yamadas is now the only Ghibli film that hasn't hit Blu-ray in the US, but don't quote me on that.
 
T

The Last Wizard

Member
ZombiePlatypus said:
Whoa, I didn't!
Click to expand...
When they have that school fair he eating at a table iirc.

Ridley327 said:
It just came out on Blu-ray a week or so ago. I want to say that My Neighbors the Yamadas is now the only Ghibli film that hasn't hit Blu-ray in the US, but don't quote me on that.
Click to expand...
Are you seriously!?

What about only yesterday? Has it been released as well?

Edit: Wow both have been released. What a time to be alive.
 
T

The Last Wizard

Member
Ridley327 said:
That came out last year. GKids has been doing god's work by getting the hard-to-find Ghibli films over here.
Click to expand...
Only reason I was able to see them was cause GKids did a theater run back in 13 or 14 I think, I'll definitely be adding them to the collection. Really great work by that company.
 
L

Luxorek

Member
I've watched it last year and I definitely rank it low among all the Ghibli productions. It's to be expected given it was made on a smaller budget and for TV.

It doesn't feel like any other Ghibli movie that's for sure. Zero fantastical elements, pretty ordinary circumstances, down to earth high school nostalgia. It's painfully slow and there is pretty much no character arc at all. However, I did connect with the characters and the plot a bit, due to my own experiences during teenage years.

High school is just weird.
 
Z

ZoddGutts

Member
Yeah, also was confuse by the film. It felt so aimless, didn't get what the movie was trying to convey. Thought maybe it was about the male dudes secretly having a thing for each other since they were always together and close to each other. But to be fair, I watched HK eng subs for it years ago since it was never licensed.
 
M

Messofanego

Banned
ocean_waves_slap_by_digi_matrix-db6wgk6.gif

ocean_waves_taku_slapped_by_digi_matrix-db6wgj0.gif

ocean_waves_ghibli_soap_opera_by_digi_matrix-db6wgl5.gif

So, I just finished watching Ocean Waves too, and it certainly stands out amongst the Ghibli films for its neorealist style and relationship drama. The only explanation I have for its happy ending is after 6 years, maybe Rikako isn't such a bitch anymore? Like Yumi says about "changing seats", maybe outside of the context of school drama, she could have become a better person in all that time. However, the film doesn't show it.

Taku gets punched by his best friend Yutaka Matsuno because of this drama, but after 6 years he makes amends and Taku seems pretty forgiving about it. So, when Yumi says Rikako is looking forward to seeing "a guy who sleeps in a bathtub", that's enough for Taku to forgive her probably. The credit paintings seem to show that Taku and Rikako become a couple. My issue is unlike Yutaka, the film doesn't show Rikako making amends for her past horrible and manipulative behaviour, so it's harder for the audience to accept that Taku would forgive her so easily. It really comes across that just because Rikako is pretty, Taku will forgive her.

The thing is, can it be seen that the film's goal was to make the main female character a villain? Earlier on, Taku says this:
ocean_waves_taku_women_by_digi_matrix-db6wfid.gif

Which sounds almost misogynistic or MGTOW. However, he quickly changes his views when a pretty woman comes onto the scene. I don't think it's just me who picks up an angry young male view of women. It could be because of the younger Ghibli men working on this, it's possible they're projecting their frustrations of women onto Rikako as a target for hate by the audience.

I liked the recent anime film A Silent Voice more, a coming-of-age drama following characters from nasty school drama to adulthood, which touches on similar issues but with a lot more characterisation and arcs. Now arcs and people changing their ways isn't necessary, I like when unlikeable characters stay like that to give the film a certain tone because that's how it is in reality where not everyone can be changed into being good. The problem is, the film by the end wants to paint Rikako as a good and reformed person, so in order for that to be satisfying there is needed a redemptive arc which is missing.

While there is some background to Rikako's personality of being selfish and lying being due to problems at home with her parents divorcing, her moving to a new place, and her independent streak butting heads against classmates, the film doesn't tie those factors to excuse for when she is acting like a manipulative asshole towards everyone time and time again. It's near to a personality disorder. The film never gives a chance to redeem Rikako, or to explain her actions. There is no empathy built, and the film rarely speaks from her perspective.

While we might argue about characters, the film is undoubtedly interesting. This film does make me want to watch more of the neorealist Ghibli films like Only Yesterday or still fantastical but more grounded Whisper Of The Heart. I loved the realness of the characters here, and some of the imagery is really nice. The cinematography of just simple conversations stays interesting, such as the overhead shot of Taku and Rikako in Hawaii. The backgrounds are fantastic. The 360 shot at the end is brilliant. I'm glad this thread was made.
ocean_waves_ghibli_cinematography_2_by_digi_matrix-db6wet9.gif

ocean_waves_ghibli_cinematography_4_by_digi_matrix-db6wdeg.gif

ocean_waves_ghibli_cinematography_5_by_digi_matrix-db6wdfh.gif
 
M

MadeULook

Member
I bought the GKIDS Blu-ray last week and gave it a watch. I mostly have to agree what's been said here. It's a strange film that feels aimless and things just kind of happen for no particular reason. What is interesting is the complete production hell this film went through. It went way over budget and missed its original deadline. On the Blu-ray, there is an interesting feature with the director, producer, and one another member talking about the whole thing (drawing a blank on the third right now).

It's an interesting movie that I reccommed giving a watch if your curious about it at all at only 70 minutes of your time. It's definitely different from the rest of the Ghibli library, and certainly not the greatest, but I'm glad I picked it up though. I would say the other neorealistic Ghibli films such as Only Yesterday and Grave of the Fireflies, which both are fantastic films, are a better choice though.
 
Lynd7

Lynd7

Member
The film was made by a bunch of young upstarts, not Ghibli heads if I remember correctly. I'm pretty sure it was a made for TV film as well?
 
M

MadeULook

Member
Lynd7 said:
The film was made by a bunch of young upstarts, not Ghibli heads if I remember correctly. I'm pretty sure it was a made for TV film as well?
Click to expand...
Yeah, it was Ghibli's attempt to get their younger animators some work and an experiment to try something other than theatrical features.

It went horribly wrong and was never tried again.
 
T

tomwhite2004

Member
ZombiePlatypus said:
However, they keep making note about how they had total creative freedom and no supervision. That's the only explanation I can piece together as to why this movie turned out the way it did.
And why Ghibli apparently gave up on the next generation to carry their torch afterwards.
Click to expand...

Ocean Waves is based on a novel so its not fair to say they had total creative freedom and imagine the vast majority of the theme, tone and character personality was derived from it.

And really Yoshifumi Kondo had been earmarked as the successor to Takahata and Miyazaki but he unfortunately died three years after directing Whisper of the Heart at the age of 47.
 
R

rothgar

Member
As a person who loves listening to the more unusual Japanese dialects, I really enjoyed this movie. But yeah, she's not the most likable character.
 
R

Relceroi

Neo Member
With it being the only Ghibli movie that I haven’t seen more than once, it’s been a while since I’ve last seen Ocean Waves. I do remember liking it, however, and I still particularly like how the movie looks. It’s quite bland to be sure, but somehow also endearing in a way. Actually, that is how I would describe the movie in general. It is a shame that Rikako’s character or the relationship between her and Taku wasn’t given an opportunity to develop more after the time skip.
 
C

cuc

Member
hosannainexcelsis said:
If you're mainly upset about the story, it's worth pointing out that this was based on a novel, although I don't know how faithful to the original it was.
Click to expand...

The crucial factor is this is a rather faithful adaptation of the first half of a book. All the important character growth stuff happens in the second half that gives a detailed account of Taku and Rikaku's college years.
 
R

rothgar

Member
cuc said:
The crucial factor is this is a rather faithful adaptation of the first half of a book. All the important character growth stuff happens in the second half that gives a detailed account of Taku and Rikaku's college years.
Click to expand...

Can you give a summary of the events in the second half of the book? Thanks.
 
Z

ZombiePlatypus

Member
Messofanego said:
ocean_waves_slap_by_digi_matrix-db6wgk6.gif

ocean_waves_taku_slapped_by_digi_matrix-db6wgj0.gif

ocean_waves_ghibli_soap_opera_by_digi_matrix-db6wgl5.gif

So, I just finished watching Ocean Waves too, and it certainly stands out amongst the Ghibli films for its neorealist style and relationship drama. The only explanation I have for its happy ending is after 6 years, maybe Rikako isn't such a bitch anymore? Like Yumi says about "changing seats", maybe outside of the context of school drama, she could have become a better person in all that time. However, the film doesn't show it.

Taku gets punched by his best friend Yutaka Matsuno because of this drama, but after 6 years he makes amends and Taku seems pretty forgiving about it. So, when Yumi says Rikako is looking forward to seeing "a guy who sleeps in a bathtub", that's enough for Taku to forgive her probably. The credit paintings seem to show that Taku and Rikako become a couple. My issue is unlike Yutaka, the film doesn't show Rikako making amends for her past horrible and manipulative behaviour, so it's harder for the audience to accept that Taku would forgive her so easily. It really comes across that just because Rikako is pretty, Taku will forgive her.

The thing is, can it be seen that the film's goal was to make the main female character a villain? Earlier on, Taku says this:
ocean_waves_taku_women_by_digi_matrix-db6wfid.gif

Which sounds almost misogynistic or MGTOW. However, he quickly changes his views when a pretty woman comes onto the scene. I don't think it's just me who picks up an angry young male view of women. It could be because of the younger Ghibli men working on this, it's possible they're projecting their frustrations of women onto Rikako as a target for hate by the audience.

I liked the recent anime film A Silent Voice more, a coming-of-age drama following characters from nasty school drama to adulthood, which touches on similar issues but with a lot more characterisation and arcs. Now arcs and people changing their ways isn't necessary, I like when unlikeable characters stay like that to give the film a certain tone because that's how it is in reality where not everyone can be changed into being good. The problem is, the film by the end wants to paint Rikako as a good and reformed person, so in order for that to be satisfying there is needed a redemptive arc which is missing.

While there is some background to Rikako's personality of being selfish and lying being due to problems at home with her parents divorcing, her moving to a new place, and her independent streak butting heads against classmates, the film doesn't tie those factors to excuse for when she is acting like a manipulative asshole towards everyone time and time again. It's near to a personality disorder. The film never gives a chance to redeem Rikako, or to explain her actions. There is no empathy built, and the film rarely speaks from her perspective.

While we might argue about characters, the film is undoubtedly interesting. This film does make me want to watch more of the neorealist Ghibli films like Only Yesterday or still fantastical but more grounded Whisper Of The Heart. I loved the realness of the characters here, and some of the imagery is really nice. The cinematography of just simple conversations stays interesting, such as the overhead shot of Taku and Rikako in Hawaii. The backgrounds are fantastic. The 360 shot at the end is brilliant. I'm glad this thread was made.
ocean_waves_ghibli_cinematography_2_by_digi_matrix-db6wet9.gif

ocean_waves_ghibli_cinematography_4_by_digi_matrix-db6wdeg.gif

ocean_waves_ghibli_cinematography_5_by_digi_matrix-db6wdfh.gif
Click to expand...

Awesome write-up. It's definitely an interesting film, even if the end result is a fumble. I still cannot get over how visually beautiful and nostalgic it looks. Regarding the idea of young male workers projecting their anger/frustration at women via the female lead, apparently the film's screenwriter was a woman. So who knows how that really played out.

cuc said:
The crucial factor is this is a rather faithful adaptation of the first half of a book. All the important character growth stuff happens in the second half that gives a detailed account of Taku and Rikaku's college years.
Click to expand...

This...explains so much.
 
C

cuc

Member
rothgar said:
Can you give a summary of the events in the second half of the book? Thanks.
Click to expand...

It's been too long, I'm relying on internet sources to help me, and there could be errors aplenty:

- More accurately, the "first half" is its own novel, and the "second half" is its sequel.

- There is a live action TV movie adapation of the second novel, though it has only had a VHS release, and apparently made some story changes.

- Like the Ghibli version, the first novel ends with a timeskip. It shows Taku and Rikako already started a happy relationship in the intervening years, while they never met each other until the very end in the anime.

- The OP neglected the one important thing that makes the anime version work: the other classmate's reminiscence revealed that Rikako had fallen in love with Taku - she secretly enrolled in a not very good college in Tokyo hoping to catch up with him, despite being eligible for the fairly good national school Kochi University in their hometown. This casted Taku's memories in a new light.

- It's a long way from Kochi to Tokyo, as you can look it up on the map. Kochi is located on Shikoku, the least populous and industrialized of all four major islands of Japan. This geographic/socioeconomic distance, and the contrast of small-town innocence to Tokyo's urban sophistication is a driving force behind the story. It means high school students in Kochi were simply not as informed as their peers in large urban centers about the complexities of romance and courtship, and can gave them a culture shock when they finally made it to the big cities.

- Now the second novel's events: Taku went to Tokyo to study in a private college (i.e. not very high-ranking). He was soon torn between Rikako and the slightly older big city girl Tomosa Tsumura.

- In addition to her motivation of being in Tokyo, the cause of Rikako's angst is revealed to be her parents' divorce, and later the pregnancy of her father's second wife.

- Tomosa on the other hand was troubled by her affair with a married man. But as we know from the first novel, everybody gets a happy ending.
 
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