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Ban Puncher
The Console Industry:
Pop Pop Pop Pop
(01-18-2014, 10:25 AM)
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Clarkus Darkus
Member
(01-18-2014, 10:29 AM)
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Might aswell resort to desperate measures as the console itself wont win the race at that price, Xbox ones are all over the place so if people wanted one they would go out and buy one.

People who watch channels on youtube and gaming ones at that will already have bought a console more than likely, EA/IGN MS/YT....those demographics!
Mung
Member
(01-18-2014, 10:36 AM)
I'm sure people have mentioned this, but isn't this only one step away from MS paying people to promote the xbox one on internet forums etc?
Miles Quaritch
lemme stick dat Red Ring
(01-18-2014, 10:40 AM)
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Originally Posted by nib95

They'll probably have a good laugh at Machinima, since they only had to make a documentary (wink wink) for Microsoft to give them that cool $750,000.

Hehe.

It's a shame that it's come to this, but then it was always a little naive to assume that youtube personalities weren't in some way open to this kind of practice...I guess we'll see which ones are now upfront about it and which ones aren't...
Last edited by Miles Quaritch; 01-18-2014 at 10:59 AM.
Miles Quaritch
lemme stick dat Red Ring
(01-18-2014, 10:42 AM)
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Originally Posted by Mung

I'm sure people have mentioned this, but isn't this only one step away from MS paying people to promote the xbox one on internet forums etc?

Seriously?

They are already doing it and I vaguely remember a story about Sony hiring bloggers to do something like it too...Not sure about Nintendo, maybe they haven't realised the potential of social media yet.
Mung
Member
(01-18-2014, 10:45 AM)

Originally Posted by Miles Quaritch

Seriously?

They are already doing it and I vaguely remember a story about Sony hiring bloggers to do something like it too...Not sure about Nintendo, maybe they haven't realised the potential of social media yet.

Yes but aren't those viral marketeers ? I mean just normal forum goers who can get a quick buck...
McLovin
Member
(01-18-2014, 10:56 AM)
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Can I say "Get on Xbox One, because you're not gonna find a PS4 in store" on youtube and get paid?
Mohonky
Banned
(01-18-2014, 10:57 AM)
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Originally Posted by Miles Quaritch

Seriously?

They are already doing it and I vaguely remember a story about Sony hiring bloggers to do something like it too...Not sure about Nintendo, maybe they haven't realised the potential of social media yet.

Yeh for the PSP they had youtube plants. Also the whole graffiti thing.
Spottiettiedop
Member
(01-18-2014, 10:59 AM)
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Still not sure why the anger towards Microsoft. Is the obligation on the the person who takes advantage of this offer to tell his viewers he's getting paid to incorporate MS in a clip? And if I'm not mistaken we still don't know all the guidelines, right?
UnluckyKate
Member
(01-18-2014, 11:07 AM)
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Originally Posted by Spottiettiedop

Still not sure why the anger towards Microsoft. Is the obligation on the the person who takes advantage of this offer to tell his viewers he's getting paid to incorporate MS in a clip? And if I'm not mistaken we still don't know all the guidelines, right?

Promotion is over.

But people can get angry but MS is buying good words, aka, advertisement from Youtubers. They are creative people who blog and make video on their own with nothing but their own personal agenda. Their followers and audience watch their videos for this reason : they like the youtuber and his idea/opinion because it's supposed to be honest and not under corporate pressure because they are free from any sort of promotion contract or advertising (where as most video game journalists and websites are not)

Microsoft is putting money on the table to get them spread the good words to their audience. In one way, it can be extremly effective and it's actually clever because this audience isn't expecting subtle advertising from their favorite youtuber so the message will be recieve better. The problem is that it's unethical, it's a corruption of the youtuber's free agenda and it's dishonest to the audience who gets targeted through the channel, especially if the youtuber isn't straight up mentioning that this video or clip is sponsored by Microsoft
Marauder Shields
Member
(01-18-2014, 11:11 AM)
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As long as Youtuber's disclose, to their viewers, that they're being paid my MSoft to promote the One then don't see an issue with it. I could see it being a bit shady if this didn't happen.
Last edited by Marauder Shields; 01-18-2014 at 11:13 AM.
BrokenIcarus
Member
(01-18-2014, 11:19 AM)
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Yeah it needs to be obvious that they were paid to say these things everything else sounds like a huge amount of bullshit to me
fantomena
Banned
(01-18-2014, 11:20 AM)
Smart move, but it seems kind of "desperate".
Leezard
It's Just the
Sweet Scent of Butane
(01-18-2014, 11:20 AM)
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If they have the required tag on their video it should be fair to assume it is an advert.
SentryDown
Member
(01-18-2014, 11:22 AM)
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Originally Posted by UnluckyKate

Promotion is over.

But people can get angry but MS is buying good words, aka, advertisement from Youtubers. They are creative people who blog and make video on their own with nothing but their own personal agenda. Their followers and audience watch their videos for this reason : they like the youtuber and his idea/opinion because it's supposed to be honest and not under corporate pressure because they are free from any sort of promotion contract or advertising (where as most video game journalists and websites are not)

Microsoft is putting money on the table to get them spread the good words to their audience. In one way, it can be extremly effective and it's actually clever because this audience isn't expecting subtle advertising from their favorite youtuber so the message will be recieve better. The problem is that it's unethical, it's a corruption of the youtuber's free agenda and it's dishonest to the audience who gets targeted through the channel, especially if the youtuber isn't straight up mentioning that this video or clip is sponsored by Microsoft


That exactly reflect my thoughts on this. When people in ads are presented as spontaneous customers giving their honnests opinions, everybody knows that it's not real and that they are paid to tell a written speech. But in the case of Youtubers, people are trusting them because they have this image of "gamers just like you/not-in-the-industry guys" and this is where it becomes dishonnest.

If I remember well, Machinima was offering extra-money for those making videos about E3, but there wasn't any restriction about what youtubers had to think or tell to get paid, this is ok IMO, not the Microsoft method
level44
Member
(01-18-2014, 11:23 AM)
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This smells of desperation.

Corruption at its finest.
FranXico
Member
(01-18-2014, 11:23 AM)

Originally Posted by Miles Quaritch

They are already doing it and I vaguely remember a story about Sony hiring bloggers to do something like it too...Not sure about Nintendo, maybe they haven't realised the potential of social media yet.

Yes, back in their dark years, Sony have been caught doing this. And the sheer incompetence with which they did it earned them a place as the preferred target of jokes in the tech community for quite some time.

But the reach of what is exposed in this thread is far worse.
Last edited by FranXico; 01-18-2014 at 11:26 AM.
close to the edge
Member
(01-18-2014, 11:24 AM)
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Originally Posted by Aquamarine

Some comments made by Bish earlier in the year:

Wow, that's pretty crazy. I never frequented the obvious console wars threads much, so I didn't notice much of the really obvious MS shills, but those are really sad.
Vizzeh
Banned
(01-18-2014, 11:27 AM)
I would be worried about how this effects the integrity of some big news sites like IGN, would they go down that route to positively promote X1 for extra cash, since they ofc have a youtube channel.

If I personally see someone bullshitting about it it will denote their credibility in my eyes and they will be removed from my subscriptions. I dislike buying to win.

Im not sure this is lawful in the UK. I guess it depends on what the wording is. If they lie, mislead or exagerate it will be a big factor. You can promote, but you have to follow guidelines based on the ASA's role to:

"regulate the content of advertisements, sales promotions and direct marketing in the UK"[2] by investigating "complaints made about ads, sales promotions or direct marketing",[2] and deciding whether such advertising complies with its advertising standards codes. These codes stipulate that "before distributing or submitting a marketing communication for publication, marketers must hold documentary evidence to prove all claims, whether direct or implied, that are capable of objective substantiation"[3] and that "no marketing communication should mislead, or be likely to mislead, by inaccuracy, ambiguity, exaggeration, omission or otherwise"

Source; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adverti...United_Kingdom)
onanie
Member
(01-18-2014, 11:28 AM)

Originally Posted by Mung

I'm sure people have mentioned this, but isn't this only one step away from MS paying people to promote the xbox one on internet forums etc?

It is indeed.
CadetMahoney
Member
(01-18-2014, 11:33 AM)
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Originally Posted by Clarkus Darkus

Might aswell resort to desperate measures as the console itself wont win the race at that price.

It being considerably weaker doesn't help either. Plus they've given up in all regions except the USA where they are desperate to hold onto some relevancy this gen as they will soon be drowned by continual losing sales as times goes on.
Martian
Member
(01-18-2014, 11:41 AM)
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Originally Posted by Vizzeh

I would be worried about how this effects the integrity of some big news sites like IGN, would they go down that route to positively promote X1 for extra cash, since they ofc have a youtube channel.

If I personally see someone bullshitting about it it will denote their credibility in my eyes and they will be removed from my subscriptions. I dislike buying to win.

Im not sure this is lawful in the UK. I guess it depends on what the wording is. If they lie, mislead or exagerate it will be a big factor. You can promote, but you have to follow guidelines based on the ASA's role to:

"regulate the content of advertisements, sales promotions and direct marketing in the UK"[2] by investigating "complaints made about ads, sales promotions or direct marketing",[2] and deciding whether such advertising complies with its advertising standards codes. These codes stipulate that "before distributing or submitting a marketing communication for publication, marketers must hold documentary evidence to prove all claims, whether direct or implied, that are capable of objective substantiation"[3] and that "no marketing communication should mislead, or be likely to mislead, by inaccuracy, ambiguity, exaggeration, omission or otherwise"

Source; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adverti...United_Kingdom)


"Integrity"

Seriously, why are people offended so much about this? This has probably been going on for way longer.
And if game developers do viral marketing like this, why shouldnt console makers?
Triggerhappytel
Member
(01-18-2014, 11:41 AM)
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Originally Posted by UnluckyKate

Promotion is over.

But people can get angry but MS is buying good words, aka, advertisement from Youtubers. They are creative people who blog and make video on their own with nothing but their own personal agenda. Their followers and audience watch their videos for this reason : they like the youtuber and his idea/opinion because it's supposed to be honest and not under corporate pressure because they are free from any sort of promotion contract or advertising (where as most video game journalists and websites are not)

Microsoft is putting money on the table to get them spread the good words to their audience. In one way, it can be extremly effective and it's actually clever because this audience isn't expecting subtle advertising from their favorite youtuber so the message will be recieve better. The problem is that it's unethical, it's a corruption of the youtuber's free agenda and it's dishonest to the audience who gets targeted through the channel, especially if the youtuber isn't straight up mentioning that this video or clip is sponsored by Microsoft

Really well summarised. I rely a lot more on YouTubers like Nerd3, Jeremy Jahns, BitSocket and Classic Game Room than I do conventional media these days, partly because I know I'm getting honest opinions not influenced by publishers or corporations. Schemes like this are basically sponsoring people to say good things about them, and that really muddies the water. Will be interesting to see who obviously does this, and whether they earn more money but lose some audience as a result.
hardvibes
Member
(01-18-2014, 11:42 AM)
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So desperate and funny
Vizzeh
Banned
(01-18-2014, 11:46 AM)

Originally Posted by Martian

"Integrity"

Seriously, why are people offended so much about this? This has probably been going on for way longer.
And if game developers do viral marketing like this, why shouldnt console makers?

Are you saying you wouldn't be concerned if it was publicly acceptable for some of the biggest gaming sites to base their opinion on how much cash they receive rather than giving an impartial opinion?
Martian
Member
(01-18-2014, 11:52 AM)
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Originally Posted by Vizzeh

Are you saying you wouldn't be concerned if it was publicly acceptable for some of the biggest gaming sites to base their opinion on how much cash they receive rather than giving an impartial opinion?

Well, promoting something isnt necissarily the same as being partial.

Also, I dont believe that IGN gives CoD great scores every year because its such a brilliant new game everytime.

And when its public, at least we know why they are giving out crazy scores. I would rather have them put all their cards on the table
onanie
Member
(01-18-2014, 12:08 PM)

Originally Posted by Martian

And when its public, at least we know why they are giving out crazy scores. I would rather have them put all their cards on the table

But they don't.
angrygnat
Member
(01-18-2014, 12:26 PM)
It's probably a hoax. Kinda along the lines of sending a chain email to 25 people or your going to die.
Rebel Leader
THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
(01-18-2014, 12:30 PM)
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Originally Posted by angrygnat

It's probably a hoax. Kinda along the lines of sending a chain email to 25 people or your going to die.

UK Machinima Community Manager
Rich!
If this is a retro/homebrew thread, I'm a helpful poster.

If not, I'm either angry about something minor or ranting about how much GAF sucks because everyone is angry all the time.

This tag will disappear when it is no longer true.
(01-18-2014, 12:31 PM)
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I know this is slightly off topic, but I have someone on my facebook who I know from school - he basically posts stories about the xbone every day, has a xbone related profile photo, has been console warrioring about it, dismissing the PS4 (for example, in one argument he stated that the lower cost of the PS4 is irrelevant because you need to buy the PlayStation Camera at 50 for it to match the power of the XBone), and now I look back through his history, he posted at one point that he received a cheque for 1,000 from Microsoft. He also got all the launch titles.

am I right in guessing he's being paid as an astroturfer? And no, I'm not making this shit up. It's just strange to see just how wide a net they're throwing.
Sapphire Dreams
Member
(01-18-2014, 12:35 PM)
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They need to give me 100X that amount if they want a true deal
p3tran
Banned
(01-18-2014, 12:36 PM)
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I find it funny how many people say this is unethical.
I mean, we have seen way worse shit, and under the table, since a long time ago...

I approve of this ms tactic. in my eyes, it is way "cleaner" than ..other options that could be on the same table.. either ms's table, or other people's tables...
FranXico
Member
(01-18-2014, 12:40 PM)

Originally Posted by p3tran

I find it funny how many people say this is unethical.
I mean, we have seen way worse shit, and under the table, since a long time ago...

I approve of this ms tactic. in my eyes, it is way "cleaner" than ..other options that could be on the same table.. either ms's table, or other people's tables...

In case you didn't notice, this is under the table...
Chobel
I shouldn't make bets because every time I do my tag gets worse
(01-18-2014, 12:41 PM)
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Originally Posted by p3tran

I find it funny how many people say this is unethical.
I mean, we have seen way worse shit, and under the table, since a long time ago...

I approve of this ms tactic. in my eyes, it is way "cleaner" than ..other options that could be on the same table.. either ms's table, or other people's tables...

Even if we saw worse shit, doesn't mean this is a good shit.
Matriox
Member
(01-18-2014, 12:43 PM)
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Originally Posted by Marauder Shields

As long as Youtuber's disclose, to their viewers, that they're being paid my MSoft to promote the One then don't see an issue with it. I could see it being a bit shady if this didn't happen.

Bingo, sounds fair to me.
Clarkus Darkus
Member
(01-18-2014, 12:45 PM)
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Originally Posted by CadetMahoney

It being considerably weaker doesn't help either. Plus they've given up in all regions except the USA where they are desperate to hold onto some relevancy this gen as they will soon be drowned by continual losing sales as times goes on.

Agreed, I wonder if those YT channels will even mention the power difference in their new vids about the x1, If MS are that desperate to get x1 in homes then they can feel free to give me one as money is no issue too them.
Mr Swine
Member
(01-18-2014, 12:45 PM)
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I can see someone as Pewdiepie use this to get even more money lol
UnluckyKate
Member
(01-18-2014, 12:45 PM)
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Originally Posted by p3tran

I find it funny how many people say this is unethical.
I mean, we have seen way worse shit, and under the table, since a long time ago...

I approve of this ms tactic. in my eyes, it is way "cleaner" than ..other options that could be on the same table.. either ms's table, or other people's tables...

It is under the table. It's here to trick the audience of the youtubers. It's just as bad a money hatting/giving privileges/gifts to game journos
Fred-87
Member
(01-18-2014, 12:45 PM)
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Is this normal rates for promotion? I have no expierence in that but i think this is like 10 times higher then usual not?
Matriox
Member
(01-18-2014, 12:53 PM)
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Originally Posted by Fred-87

Is this normal rates for promotion? I have no expierence in that but i think this is like 10 times higher then usual not?

Eh, 1Mil views for $3,000 sounds a bit low imo, but I don't really know.
bs000
Member
(01-18-2014, 12:54 PM)
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Machinima does this kind of bonus throughout the year for things like E3 and PAX. I also recall one example of them giving bonuses for games where they sent out copies of NFS Most Wanted to tons of partners and gave bonuses for any videos they did for it.
onanie
Member
(01-18-2014, 12:57 PM)

Originally Posted by FranXico

In case you didn't notice, this is under the table...

But is it under enough?
Fox_Mulder
Rockefellers. Skull and Bones. Microsoft. Al Qaeda. A Cabal of Bankers. The melting point of steel. What do these things have in common? Wake up sheeple, the landfill wasn't even REAL!
(01-18-2014, 01:05 PM)
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Major Nelson: Don't hate!
monlo
Member
(01-18-2014, 01:11 PM)
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Originally Posted by slothmoney

do I have to promote it positively? I'd love to see the fall out of that if it's not in the fine print.

Promote, not demote
Rare
Junior Member
(01-18-2014, 01:13 PM)
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What's wrong with this if they do a 30 sec video before main video? Like Rev3games do with Netflix. Or does the whole video have to be about the XBO?
QaaQer
Member
(01-18-2014, 01:15 PM)
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Originally Posted by Lord of Castamere

Makes me wonder if M$'s marketing play a role in how well the Xbone was received by journalists at launch.....

yup. Stay classy MS, game journos, and youtubbers.

So if pewtiepie sez, 'buy xbone', does that mean he gets (5 million/1000)*$3=$150 000 USD?
p3tran
Banned
(01-18-2014, 01:18 PM)
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the way I see things, when things are done/said in public tweets, its not what I call "under the table".
not even close....
dab0ne
Member
(01-18-2014, 01:18 PM)
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Taking a page right out of the casting couch play book.
UnluckyKate
Member
(01-18-2014, 01:25 PM)
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By seaching by the given tag you can see all the youtuber who applied :

http://www.youtube.com/results?page=...D2&app=desktop
QaaQer
Member
(01-18-2014, 01:32 PM)
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Originally Posted by JABEE

It's promotion and it's deceiving when the party does not disclose that they have accepted gifts/monetary benefits for an alteration of their content.

It may happen all the time, but I look at it as everything that is wrong with the ethics of Marketers. It's about tricking consumers, not about informing them about your product in an honest way.

It's only going to get worse too. Corporations are going to destroy any semblance of fair and balanced consumer guides. I guess it's worth it to ruin an outlet or person's credibility as a reporter as long as it means survival among the rest of the cheaters and unscrupulous characters. It reminds me of a baseball player's rationalization of their use of performance enhancing drugs.

It's just sad.

Yep. I posted some articles during the MS DRM PR push about how astroturfing and manipulation can ruin communities and whole parts of the internet. It is sad and it is used by governments and the military as well. There is even sophisticated software that enables one person to have dozens and dozens of what appear to be real people (personae).

So for important stuff like GMO foods, military operations, government repression, silencing voices, etc. it definitely make the world a worse place.

Fuck PR firms.

Slightly OT: did anyone see Blackfish? Wherein a PR firm working for Seaworld decided to blame a trainer who had been killed by an Orca by blaming her ponytail? The Orca had a history of killing people, the trainers were never told and she did nothing wrong, yet suddenly it was her fault and she couldn't answer because she was dead.

And of course lets not forget the time that a PR firm working for the Kuwaiti government fabricated the story of Iraqi soldiers throwing babies out of incubators in order to get support for Desert Storm from the American public. They went so far as to hire a 16 year old Kuwait actress who testified in front of senators, and whose teary eyed testimony appeared on every network tv broadcast. It was all lies but nobody went to jail because of it. PR firms are scum.
Last edited by Untalkative_Bunny; 01-18-2014 at 01:36 PM.

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